Anything in these ingredients that might trigger an allergy

Originally Posted by Minka

Unless they are sick, cats Will eventually eat what you put down. Now if it's wet, you can't leave it down for too long otherwise it goes bad. So you have to do it in 30 min intervals and wait an hour or more before putting it down again. After 12 hours if they have eaten nothing, you put down a Tiny bit of the food they like, and the put the new food back down.

People are convinced that their cat will starve itself, but they really won't. Their instincts will kick in.

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This is not true. Cats cannot go very long without any food before their organs begin to shut down. In three days the liver will begin to fail, and the kidneys will begin to suffer from dehydration, but the debilitating process starts much sooner than three days.

It is very dangerous to try to force a cat to eat something by making him/her starve until s/he gets hungry enough.

The cat will not "eat when s/he gets hungry enough". Instead, s/he will become so sick and dehydrated from lack of food, s/he will just give up.

I would not advise anyone ever to force a cat to go hungry in order to force the cat to eat something you want him/her to eat.

I think what Minka meant is that some loving owners are afraid of their cats skipping even a single meal, and normal kitties will lower standards when hungry... certainty I don't think anyone would endorse allowing a cat to go multiple days without food if for some odd reason a cat would starve itself rather than eat the food provided.

When my cat Mr Grey started having allergy symptoms, my vet said to try switching to a food with no chicken, fish, or grains. He was on grain free already though. There are not very many dry foods without chicken/fish/grains however if you use dry. There are plenty of canned ones though. Most of my cats refuse to eat canned unfortunately.

Originally Posted by otto

This is not true. Cats cannot go very long without any food before their organs begin to shut down. In three days the liver will begin to fail, and the kidneys will begin to suffer from dehydration, but the debilitating process starts much sooner than three days.

It is very dangerous to try to force a cat to eat something by making him/her starve until s/he gets hungry enough.

The cat will not "eat when s/he gets hungry enough". Instead, s/he will become so sick and dehydrated from lack of food, s/he will just give up.

I would not advise anyone ever to force a cat to go hungry in order to force the cat to eat something you want him/her to eat.

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I never suggested going days without food... I specifically said to feed a small amount of the food they will eat every 12 hours.
A cat will Not just randomly starve itself if it is healthy. If a cat gets out or runs away, it doesn't just lay around until it dies, it Tries to survive. It will search for food in whatever way it can.

Originally Posted by Ducman69

I think what Minka meant is that some loving owners are afraid of their cats skipping even a single meal, and normal kitties will lower standards when hungry... certainty I don't think anyone would endorse allowing a cat to go multiple days without food if for some odd reason a cat would starve itself rather than eat the food provided.

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^Exactly.



Dr Pierson:
"The single biggest mistake I see people make time and again is to say that their cat "won't touch" the new food and then panic and fill up the bowl with dry food."

"For 'resistant-to-change' cats, you will need to use the normal sensation of hunger to help with the transition. For this reason, it is very important to stop free-feeding dry food. This is the first, and very critical, step. You need to establish set mealtimes. They are not going to try anything new if their bowl of junk food is in front of them 24/7.

Cats do not need food available at all times. It really is okay for them to experience a hunger pain! That said, it was very hard for me to listen to my cats begging for food even though I was strong in my conviction that I was heading them in the best direction for optimal health. It truly was a stressful time for me and them. Actually, I think it was harder on me! This is where many people fail and just give in and fill up the dry food bowl. There were a few times when I had to call my 'sponsor' and was instructed to "just leave the house if you can't take looking into those eyes!" I left the house. Those pitiful little cries of "I have not had food for two WHOLE hours!" were hard to take. But, lo and behold, they were just fine when I returned. Not one cat had died from hunger.

On the other hand, do not attempt to withhold food for long periods of time (greater than 24 hours) with the hope that your cat will choose the new food. You need to ‘convince’ them that a high quality canned food really is good for them, rather than to try starving them into it - which does not work anyway. Allowing a cat to go without food - especially an overweight cat - for a long period of time (greater than 48 hours) can be quite dangerous and may result in hepatic lipidosis (fatty liver disease)."

"If your cat has been eating dry food on a free-choice basis, take up the food and establish a schedule of two - three times per day feedings. I really do prefer just twice-daily feedings when trying to transition them. A normal, healthy hunger response after 12 hours goes a long way to convince them to try something new."

(Bold is mine)

Dr Pierson even recommends using periods of MORE than 12 hours without food to convince a cat to eat what you want.

Originally Posted by Minka

Does this schedule include free-fed dry?

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Yes, 1/2 cup of dry I put down after I give them their 10:30 wet.

Originally Posted by Auntie Crazy

This book isn't the easiest read, both because of the content and because the author seems to have trouble connecting his thoughts in a logical, consistent manner. The information is relevant and sometimes riveting, but not always presented in a linear format.

I'm now reading Susan Thixton's "Buyer Beware: The Crimes, Lies and Truth About Pet Food". So far, it's living up to it's reviews as being the most comprehensive and easy to read of the books devoted to exposing the pet food industry's ingredient sourcing and manufacturing process practices.

I've also read Ann Martin's latest version of her, "Food Pets Die For: Shocking Facts About Pet Food" book. I found it rather shallow and learned almost nothing I didn't already know. The only information I gleaned from that book was a better understanding of the complexity and tightness of big agriculture, the pet food industry and the agencies that are supposed to be watching over the two... and none of that is truly helpful. Once you know they're all keeping each other in business (which I was aware of before getting the book), the rest is superfluous. Additionally, while I'm certain Ann has a great deal of knowledge around the PFI, she hasn't conducted the same due diligence on feline nutrition; the book contains several "recipes" for cats that are inappropriate, unbalanced and potentially dangerous in the long term. They include not just fruits and veggies, but grains!

, nearly everything is cooked, and there's not a supplement in sight, not even taurine which everyone knows - or should know by now - is destroyed by cooking and is one of the many vital amino acids cats must obtain through their diet.

If you'd like to give your hubby something that talks specifically about kibble and the concerns around feeding it, I'd recommend printing off the 18 page printer-friendly version of CatInfo.org, as well as Dr. Pierson's separate Urinary Tract Health, Feline Diabetes and Feline Obesity articles.

Alternatively, you could purchase Dr. Hodgkins', "Your Cat: Simple New Secrets to a Longer, Stronger Life" although, of course, that book covers far more than just the detrimental aspects of feeding kibble.

- - - - - -

Well goodness, this post turned into a book review.

Hope you don't mind, Misty! (I'm aware I sometimes cover topics more thoroughly than folks are actually looking for; I'm working on that.

)

AC

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AC,
You can never post too much information as far as I'm concerned! I will do just that - print off some of that material for him to read. Nothing else I've tried has worked and even hiding the stupid kibble doesn't because he will drive me crazy until I tell him where it is. And his idea of putting down just a "little bit" is very, very different from my idea of a little bit. So thank you very much, and I'm making note of all those books to look up.

Originally Posted by Minka

Unless they are sick, cats Will eventually eat what you put down. Now if it's wet, you can't leave it down for too long otherwise it goes bad. So you have to do it in 30 min intervals and wait an hour or more before putting it down again. After 12 hours if they have eaten nothing, you put down a Tiny bit of the food they like, and the put the new food back down.

People are convinced that their cat will starve itself, but they really won't. Their instincts will kick in.

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Oh, I know she won't starve, and I don't always put a different food down for her, but I realize she can't open the cans herself or tell me what she's hungry for, so I try to be a little accommodating. Also, if I leave the dish down (wet food), she won't go back to it, Swanie will find it and help himself. There are not too many food Swanie won't eat.

Originally Posted by Misty8723

Oh, I know she won't starve, and I don't always put a different food down for her, but I realize she can't open the cans herself or tell me what she's hungry for, so I try to be a little accommodating. Also, if I leave the dish down (wet food), she won't go back to it, Swanie will find it and help himself. There are not too many food Swanie won't eat.

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That's the thing, putting down a different food is kinda like begging; if you give in to begging, even only Sometimes, it still reinforces begging because the cat knows there is the Chance that she might get a different food. I totally understand wanting to give variety and give what the cat wants that day, which is why I feed 3 different flavors of food. Can I guess exactly what he wants that day? No. But he'll be perfectly alright if a couple times a week he has to eat what he doesn't want that day. (It helps that he needs to lose weight anyways. )

If you have dry food out all day (even a measured amount, meaning you dont refill till the next day), there's just no way you are going to convince her to eat more/all wet. You have to implement meal times otherwise she always has food so she has no motivation to eat the wet.
If you put down wet, and she Knows there is no other food available, that is a Huge motivator for persuasion. (See my previous posts from Dr. Pierson or visit her website yourself catinfo.org)

Also, if one cat is stealing another cats food, you may have to separate them during meal time.

Originally Posted by Minka

That's the thing, putting down a different food is kinda like begging; if you give in to begging, even only Sometimes, it still reinforces begging because the cat knows there is the Chance that she might get a different food. I totally understand wanting to give variety and give what the cat wants that day, which is why I feed 3 different flavors of food. Can I guess exactly what he wants that day? No. But he'll be perfectly alright if a couple times a week he has to eat what he doesn't want that day. (It helps that he needs to lose weight anyways.

)

If you have dry food out all day (even a measured amount, meaning you dont refill till the next day), there's just no way you are going to convince her to eat more/all wet. You have to implement meal times otherwise she always has food so she has no motivation to eat the wet.
If you put down wet, and she Knows there is no other food available, that is a Huge motivator for persuasion. (See my previous posts from Dr. Pierson or visit her website yourself catinfo.org)

Also, if one cat is stealing another cats food, you may have to separate them during meal time.

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Depends on the cat ...

In my house wet just means I deduct 1/8-1/4 cup of dry per feeding( remember I have 4 eating ) ...

for picky wet eaters ... try different flavors and textures after years of fighting with Zoey I found a few she loves ... the others were easy

When I had five or more kitties ... meals were in multiple rooms to avoid "piggys"

Originally Posted by Ducman69

Egg is a known allergen as well. And actually, even though its a very common ingredient, many cats are allergic to chicken.

From what I understand, cats are usually put on severely limited ingredient recipes, and then ingredients are added back in one by one and stopped when an offending one is found. *shrugs*

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That is pretty much the way it goes with cats and dogs if the allergies are as severe as the OP indicated. Elimination is the key to it. I do believe there are extensive and very expensive tests one can put the animals through to *try* and determine what the allergen is.

The OP did not indicate if a veterinarian was involved but I would imagine the vet would put the puss on a prescription diet and go from there. But them I'm not even positive about that.

Originally Posted by Minka

If you have dry food out all day (even a measured amount, meaning you dont refill till the next day), there's just no way you are going to convince her to eat more/all wet. You have to implement meal times otherwise she always has food so she has no motivation to eat the wet.
If you put down wet, and she Knows there is no other food available, that is a Huge motivator for persuasion. (See my previous posts from Dr. Pierson or visit her website yourself catinfo.org)

Also, if one cat is stealing another cats food, you may have to separate them during meal time.

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Not true in my household. I free feed dry and do scheduled wet feedings. I don't even feed the same brand, flavor or texture of wet all of the time. None of my meezers leave a scrap of the wet and none have ever refused their wet. They totally look forward to their wet feedings.

Originally Posted by NutroMike

The OP did not indicate if a veterinarian was involved but I would imagine the vet would put the puss on a prescription diet and go from there. But them I'm not even positive about that.

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Yes, there is a vet involved. She has suggested steroids (no) and taking her to a dermitologist. Its not all that severe, but she had a moderately severe breakout that I think started when I started giving her that vet food. I have stopped giving her anything with corn to see if that helps, plus, she's had antibiotics and the infections are clearing up. I don't see her scratching like she was for awhile either, so for now I'm just going to see if it clears up with no corn. If not, I'll try taking away another food that is common allergen like eggs. I will see about doing the food trial at some point when/if I can get DH on board and I can find something she will eat.

Originally Posted by Minka

That's the thing, putting down a different food is kinda like begging; if you give in to begging, even only Sometimes, it still reinforces begging because the cat knows there is the Chance that she might get a different food. I totally understand wanting to give variety and give what the cat wants that day, which is why I feed 3 different flavors of food. Can I guess exactly what he wants that day? No. But he'll be perfectly alright if a couple times a week he has to eat what he doesn't want that day. (It helps that he needs to lose weight anyways.

).

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I guess it just doesn't bother me to give her something else if she doesn't want the first thing I put out. Its not like every time or even every other time. She likes wet food, she eats it, but she doesn't eat a lot of anything at one time. She's a perfect weight, according the vet, so I don't see a problem.

Originally Posted by Minka

Also, if one cat is stealing another cats food, you may have to separate them during meal time.

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Swanie is not stealing her food. Its only after she's finished and I don't pick the dish up right away. He enjoys sneaking up on the dish and eating some of it. And they do eat in separate places.

It could be the chicken, my cat Lucas is allergic to chicken, turkey and duck.

Momto4kitties said:

It could be the chicken, my cat Lucas is allergic to chicken, turkey and duck.

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Queen Eva has an intolerance to all chicken canned cat foods made in Thailand. (Petite Cuisine, Avoderm, Weruva and Soulistic for example) She also cannot eat any turkey canned cat foods or the Natural Balance Pea and Duck kibble.

Naturally she loves those foods, but I don't let her have them.

She also loves cornful foods like Mazy's c/d kibble, but that also gives her diarrhea. No corn for Queen Eva. (I once tried the WB cat litter, what a disaster, she wouldn't stop eating it and she was sick for weeks)

She can eat the Castor and Pollux chicken and vegetable casserole canned cat food, it is her main diet. Her every third or fourth day food is Before Grain beef canned, which she also does well on. Her kibble snacks are Evo Herring and Salmon, grain free kibble.

I'm so grateful I finally found foods that work for her. She is thriving now, but it was a long worrisome process.

What does Lucas eat?

Right now I'm in the process of finding the right food for Lucas.  He is eating dry hills z/d, he was eating the canned z/d, but he seems to be allergic to it. He canned z/d is made with hydrolized chicken liver, so is not supposed to affect him,but it does.   I don't want him eating dry food,and I don't want him eating the z/d, so I'm doing tests to see which meat doesn't trigger a reaction.   It is weird how he reacts to the canned z/d but not to the dry, but it is a fact.

I bought Natural Balance canned salmon to see what happens and I also bought evanger's rabbit.  I will wait until he gets better to try more food.  I also wanto to try lamb. 

It was amazing how fast he reacted when I gave him the duck, the reaction was almost instant.

Tammy

Momto4kitties said:

Right now I'm in the process of finding the right food for Lucas.  He is eating dry hills z/d, he was eating the canned z/d, but he seems to be allergic to it. He canned z/d is made with hydrolized chicken liver, so is not supposed to affect him,but it does.   I don't want him eating dry food,and I don't want him eating the z/d, so I'm doing tests to see which meat doesn't trigger a reaction.   It is weird how he reacts to the canned z/d but not to the dry, but it is a fact.

I bought Natural Balance canned salmon to see what happens and I also bought evanger's rabbit.  I will wait until he gets better to try more food.  I also wanto to try lamb. 

It was amazing how fast he reacted when I gave him the duck, the reaction was almost instant.

Tammy

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Queen Eva, too. If she didn't vomit it right away, she'd have diarrhea within hours, it disagreed with her so badly.

I know Lucas has other health issues. Queen Eva does too, though not the same as Lucas. She has a nutrient absorption issue which is well controlled by daily ProViable DC probiotic, as long as I am careful about her diet (feeding only the foods mentioned earlier). I've also recently started her on coconut oil, which seems to be really beneficial to her. Her coat is incredible. She eats it right off my fingers.

With Lucas the reaction is his belly gets an awful big red rash minutes after eating the food, the same happened with chicken and turkey.  I'm sorry Queen Eva gets so sick because of the food too.  I'm glad you were able to find remedies that work for her.  With Lucas it is hard because he has an autoimmune problem that is difficult to manage, but I'm getting there, I'm never giving up

Momto4kitties said:

With Lucas the reaction is his belly gets an awful big red rash minutes after eating the food, the same happened with chicken and turkey.  I'm sorry Queen Eva gets so sick because of the food too.  I'm glad you were able to find remedies that work for her.  With Lucas it is hard because he has an autoimmune problem that is difficult to manage, but I'm getting there, I'm never giving up

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Oh wow, that is definitely an allergic reaction. I would call Queen Eva's problem more of an "intolerance" rather than an "allergy". I know what you've been through with Lucas.

Much love and vibes to him Lucas :heart3: