Anything in these ingredients that might trigger an allergy

I know Cindy has allergies, but I don't know to what. Right now he is broken out with sores and scabs. The vet has her on a second round of antibiotics and wants to try steroids. She says allergies, but says there's no way of knowing allergic to what. I started giving her this a couple months ago I guess, because the vet wanted Swanie to be on it. I'm weaning them off it (I don't like the ingrendients particularly, and Swanie's problem is cleared up). I was thinking maybe it was the new treats I started giving her, but then it occurred to me, maybe its the food.

Chicken meal, rice, chicken fat, corn gluten meal, powdered cellulose, natural flavors, soy protein isolate, dried egg product, dried beet pulp (sugar removed), potassium chloride, anchovy oil (source of EPA/DHA), dried brewers yeast, sodium silico aluminate, soya oil, fructo-oligosaccharides, DL-methionine, salt, sodium tripolyphosphate, dried brewers yeast extract (source of mannan-oligosaccharides), choline chloride, taurine, Vitamins [DL-alpha tocopherol acetate (source of vitamin E), L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), niacin supplement, biotin, riboflavin supplement (vitamin B2), D-calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin A acetate, thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), folic acid, vitamin B12 supplement, vitamin D3 supplement], Trace Minerals [zinc oxide, zinc proteinate, ferrous sulfate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite], marigold extract (Tagetes erecta L.), rosemary

The highest allergen ingredients are: rice, corn gluten meal and soy protein.
But honestly allergies can be to anything. She could be allergic to chicken for all we know. It may be best to put her on a diet of either chicken and rice or a specifically hypoallergenic diet.

Thanks for the info. Maybe its the corn gluten because I have stayed away from the corn gluten until I got this stuff from the vet. I've given her both chicken and rice in other food and never had an outbreak like this one.

Originally Posted by Minka

The highest allergen ingredients are: rice, corn gluten meal and soy protein.

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Egg is a known allergen as well. And actually, even though its a very common ingredient, many cats are allergic to chicken.

From what I understand, cats are usually put on severely limited ingredient recipes, and then ingredients are added back in one by one and stopped when an offending one is found. *shrugs*

I don't know if you feed canned food or not, but there are some that you may want to try. Before Grain makes single protein canned foods - the "96% beef" or "96% turkey" are, IMO, good options for a cat who has allergies. I think that EVO & Nature's Variety also make some 95% meat foods...however Before Grain is the lowest carb of the three.

Fromm makes a few dry foods that don't have chicken or corn in them. ZiwiPeak has a venison flavor, which may also work.

Mikey is allergic to corn, as well as a few other things. If you are interested, his story is on http://www.ibdkitties.net/rawthriving.html as is Panther's, another of my cats with allergy issues. http://ibdkitties.net/ParentsSpeak.html also has topics focusing on allergies.

Originally Posted by Misty8723

I know Cindy has allergies, but I don't know to what. Right now he is broken out with sores and scabs. The vet has her on a second round of antibiotics and wants to try steroids. She says allergies, but says there's no way of knowing allergic to what. I started giving her this a couple months ago I guess, because the vet wanted Swanie to be on it. I'm weaning them off it (I don't like the ingrendients particularly, and Swanie's problem is cleared up). I was thinking maybe it was the new treats I started giving her, but then it occurred to me, maybe its the food.

Chicken meal, rice, chicken fat, corn gluten meal, powdered cellulose, natural flavors, soy protein isolate, dried egg product, dried beet pulp (sugar removed), potassium chloride, anchovy oil (source of EPA/DHA), dried brewers yeast, sodium silico aluminate, soya oil, fructo-oligosaccharides, DL-methionine, salt, sodium tripolyphosphate, dried brewers yeast extract (source of mannan-oligosaccharides), choline chloride, taurine, Vitamins [DL-alpha tocopherol acetate (source of vitamin E), L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), niacin supplement, biotin, riboflavin supplement (vitamin B2), D-calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin A acetate, thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), folic acid, vitamin B12 supplement, vitamin D3 supplement], Trace Minerals [zinc oxide, zinc proteinate, ferrous sulfate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite], marigold extract (Tagetes erecta L.), rosemary

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I can see several ingredients in this list that could cause potential issues, Misty. And that powdered cellulose truly made me wince (powdered cellulose is literally sawdust ).

Beyond allergies themselves are food intolerances, which could be provoked by any number of additives (which this food has a lot of). You can read Switching Foods on the LittleBigCat.com site for more info on allergies and intolerances.

I would do as FurryFriends suggest and switch to a grain-free canned with a limited number of ingredients. Once Cindy's system is recovered, you can start feeding a variety of canned products, which will keep your two furkids from becoming fixated on any one product (a problem if they change or stop producing it) and will protect them from potential quality control issues by diluting them.

Good luck!

AC

Well, powdered cellulose is not "literally" saw dust. It is a common ingredient in food manufacturer for humans as an anti-caking agent or thickener like starch (put in bread, shredded cheese, mustards, powdered milk, etc), and cellulose is the natural material in plant cell walls and as such is the most common organic component on the planet. I don't see how it would be an allergen, as it should pass undigested as insoluble fiber (makes for tootsie roll poops heh).

Originally Posted by Auntie Crazy

I can see several ingredients in this list that could cause potential issues, Misty. And that powdered cellulose truly made me wince (powdered cellulose is literally sawdust

).

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Ak! sawdust! That food is the Rx food the vet sold me for Swanie's issues (Royal Canin Gastrointentinal HE). I never liked the ingredients, but since I had to feed it to him for awhile, I began feeding it to her too. I was in the process of transitioning them away from it anyway.

Originally Posted by Auntie Crazy

Beyond allergies themselves are food intolerances, which could be provoked by any number of additives (which this food has a lot of). You can read Switching Foods on the LittleBigCat.com site for more info on allergies and intolerances.

I would do as FurryFriends suggest and switch to a grain-free canned with a limited number of ingredients. Once Cindy's system is recovered, you can start feeding a variety of canned products, which will keep your two furkids from becoming fixated on any one product (a problem if they change or stop producing it) and will protect them from potential quality control issues by diluting them.

Good luck!

AC

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I actually already do feed them a variety of canned (dry is just at night for them to free feed), but Cindy is very fussy and will turn her nose up at most of the better foods. Therefore, she often gets Fancy Feast Classic, which I know she'll eat.

Going to read the links your provided now. Would you have a recommendation for canned food I could try.

Originally Posted by Misty8723

Ak! sawdust! That food is the Rx food the vet sold me for Swanie's issues (Royal Canin Gastrointentinal HE).

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Its not sawdust!

Here, I'll go to my fridge. Kraft Natural Italian Five-Cheese shredded... omg, what's that, cellulose powder. Sargento Reduced-Fat Colby Jack slices... cellulose powder. Its probably in my salad dressings and cereals too, but I'm too lazy to go through them all, but you'll find the same in your fridge.

Some people intentionally take cellulose powder to help with their bowels as an insoluble fiber supplement, but either way since there is no way a carnivore could hope to digest it, it can't act as an allergen. Sorry, I just get annoyed when false rumors start to circulate.

They do this with humans sometimes, when there's an allergy they can't track down--

Start with a single-ingredient diet. For humans, usually it's rice or corn. See if the symptoms go away. If they do, then whatever you're eating is not the allergen. Gradually add more ingredients. Whatever you just added when the symptoms come back is your allergen.

It's called an "elimination diet". I'm not sure if it can be done with cat food, but it might be worth a try.

Originally Posted by Misty8723

...
Going to read the links your provided now. Would you have a recommendation for canned food I could try.

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I would look for foods that don't contain grains, veggies or fruits (or have very little) and have a short ingredient list. Searching PetFoodDirect.com for "grain-free canned" is a great way to start, and if you use your browser's 'tab' function, you can actually compare the food ingredients and % analysis side by side. The Feline-Nutrition.org site has a great "Reading a Pet Food Ingredient Label" article under their "Nutrition" section that will help you figure out from the ingredients and analysis which foods may be healthier.

In addition, there are several tricks you can use to entice your cat to eat something new. CatInfo.org has a helpful article (Transitioning) that goes into a lot of detail. I'm sure you'll find some solid tips in there, and in the meantime, here's a list of things you can try:

Drip a bit of tuna juice over the new wet food, or sprinkle catnip, Parmesan Cheese, Forti Flora flakes, fish food flakes (weird, but it works), or some crumbled up freeze-dried meat treats (Whole Life's chicken works wonderfully on my kitties) over the food.

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Hope some of this info helps you, Misty!

AC

Originally Posted by Auntie Crazy

I would look for foods that don't contain grains, veggies or fruits (or have very little) and have a short ingredient list. Searching PetFoodDirect.com for "grain-free canned" is a great way to start, and if you use your browser's 'tab' function, you can actually compare the food ingredients and % analysis side by side. The Feline-Nutrition.org site has a great "Reading a Pet Food Ingredient Label" article under their "Nutrition" section that will help you figure out from the ingredients and analysis which foods may be healthier.

In addition, there are several tricks you can use to entice your cat to eat something new. CatInfo.org has a helpful article (Transitioning) that goes into a lot of detail. I'm sure you'll find some solid tips in there, and in the meantime, here's a list of things you can try:

Drip a bit of tuna juice over the new wet food, or sprinkle catnip, Parmesan Cheese, Forti Flora flakes, fish food flakes (weird, but it works), or some crumbled up freeze-dried meat treats (Whole Life's chicken works wonderfully on my kitties) over the food.

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Hope some of this info helps you, Misty!

AC

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Thank you for the link to that transitioning article. They actually do both eat canned food, but Cindy is very very picky.

The reason we started feeding them dry at all is my fault. Cindy likes to graze and when she first came to live here, she had a habit of jumping on my chest at night and waking me up wanting food. She can be incredibly persistent. So, I thought, okay I'll put a little dry down at night for her to nibble on. Well, "a little" became any time they look at DH with big kitty eyes, no matter how much I tell him to knock it off.

I feed them canned three times a day. They don't need dry, but they're addicted. You should have seen them both last night when I took away the Rx food that I was asking about. You would have thought I was the meanest mommy in the world, but they survived.

I do know about PetFoodDirect, and I have some idea of which foods are better than others, but I'm one of these people if I put it down and Cindy won't eat it, I run and get her something else. So, basically, they are both spoiled. I don't know if those tricks will work with Cindy, I think if I sprinkled potato chips on it that might, but knowing her she would eat the chips and leave the rest of it

I appreicate the very good advice, AC, I'm going to really try to make some positive changes and we will see what happens.

Originally Posted by Misty8723

...

I do know about PetFoodDirect, and I have some idea of which foods are better than others, but I'm one of these people if I put it down and Cindy won't eat it, I run and get her something else. So, basically, they are both spoiled. I don't know if those tricks will work with Cindy, I think if I sprinkled potato chips on it that might, but knowing her she would eat the chips and leave the rest of it

I appreicate the very good advice, AC, I'm going to really try to make some positive changes and we will see what happens.

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It's hard, I know, Misty. We love and adore them and don't want them unhappy for even two seconds. (I respond faster to a cat's cry than I do my phone ringing. ) But we have to be stronger, for their benefit.

I'm currently reading "Not Fit For A Dog!" by Michael W. Fox, B.Vet. Med., Ph.D., D.Sc., M.R.C.V.S. (what a mouthful!) and the things done to kibble to deliberately addict our pets and promote overeating makes for some of the most disgusting (and blood-pressure-raising) reading I've encountered in a while. You're doing the right thing by standing firm! In fact, go throw the bag away so you're not tempted to give in.

And come back here any time you need some positive reinforcement.

AC

Originally Posted by Misty8723

Thank you for the link to that transitioning article. They actually do both eat canned food, but Cindy is very very picky.
In my experience, cats become picky when you notice them turn their nose up at something, decide they don't like it, and switch to another food. It solidifies in their mind that: "If I turn up my nose at this food, another better food will eventually come. >:3"
So the best way to combat pickiness is not to find a food they like, but instead to put down a food you have and continue to put it down until they eat it.

The reason we started feeding them dry at all is my fault. Cindy likes to graze and when she first came to live here, she had a habit of jumping on my chest at night and waking me up wanting food. She can be incredibly persistent. So, I thought, okay I'll put a little dry down at night for her to nibble on. Well, "a little" became any time they look at DH with big kitty eyes, no matter how much I tell him to knock it off.
My cat also likes food at night, so his meals are feed during the following times as follows: 9-11am, 2-4pm, 9-11pm, 2-4am.
Course I spoil my baby and most people would be cranky every day on that kind of schedule, but waking up in the night one time (as opossed to every hour if I ignore him) doesn't bother me too much. If you are a morning person, you could instead do say, 10pm-12am & 6-8am.

I feed them canned three times a day. They don't need dry, but they're addicted. You should have seen them both last night when I took away the Rx food that I was asking about. You would have thought I was the meanest mommy in the world, but they survived.
Haha, when my cat does that I say 'Oh I know. You haven't eaten in days and days. No food, shelter, no love... So sad. *nods*
xD

I do know about PetFoodDirect, and I have some idea of which foods are better than others, but I'm one of these people if I put it down and Cindy won't eat it, I run and get her something else. So, basically, they are both spoiled. I don't know if those tricks will work with Cindy, I think if I sprinkled potato chips on it that might, but knowing her she would eat the chips and leave the rest of it

Ah, so I see you Are promoting the pickiness.

I appreicate the very good advice, AC, I'm going to really try to make some positive changes and we will see what happens.

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(the website wont let me post without text down here)

Originally Posted by Auntie Crazy

It's hard, I know, Misty.

We love and adore them and don't want them unhappy for even two seconds.

(I respond faster to a cat's cry than I do my phone ringing.

) But we have to be stronger, for their benefit.

I'm currently reading "Not Fit For A Dog!" by Michael W. Fox, B.Vet. Med., Ph.D., D.Sc., M.R.C.V.S. (what a mouthful!) and the things done to kibble to deliberately addict our pets and promote overeating makes for some of the most disgusting (and blood-pressure-raising) reading I've encountered in a while. You're doing the right thing by standing firm! In fact, go throw the bag away so you're not tempted to give in.

And come back here any time you need some positive reinforcement.

AC

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I definitely got rid of the bag. And I may see about getting that book and having DH read it. If it weren't for him I would do away with dry food entirely. I'm sorry I ever got it started. But thanks again.

Originally Posted by Minka

In my experience, cats become picky when you notice them turn their nose up at something, decide they don't like it, and switch to another food. It solidifies in their mind that: "If I turn up my nose at this food, another better food will eventually come. >:3"
So the best way to combat pickiness is not to find a food they like, but instead to put down a food you have and continue to put it down until they eat it.

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We got Cindy from the shelter in December 2005. She was refusing everything I put down (and I wasn't just picking it right back up again). The only thing she would finally eat was Iams Ocean Fish. I fed that for awhile until they both got sick on it, and I'll never feed to to any cat again. She is not a cat that will eventually eat it if I leave it down, and my DH is inclined if she looks hungry to give her some dry food. DH is a BIG part of the problem. Another issue is that the vet gave us some medicine to give her shortly after she came in, liquid. She got very very sick on it and I had a devil of a time getting her to eat anything for days. I finally got her to lick a little gravy, so I was putting bowls of gravy in front of her frequently. Yes, she got the impression she's an entitled princess, but I would do it again in a hearbeat.

Originally Posted by Minka

My cat also likes food at night, so his meals are feed during the following times as follows: 9-11am, 2-4pm, 9-11pm, 2-4am.
Course I spoil my baby and most people would be cranky every day on that kind of schedule, but waking up in the night one time (as opossed to every hour if I ignore him) doesn't bother me too much. If you are a morning person, you could instead do say, 10pm-12am & 6-8am.

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If I had it to do over, I would not put the dry food down. But I was an inexperienced cat owner and thought I was doing a good thing for all of us. Right now I feed them wet food at 5:30 AM when I get up, at 4:30 PM when I get home, and around 10:30 PM before I go to bed. They get about 1/3 of a 3 oz can each time. Feeding them during the night would not be an issue because I usually get up at least once anyway. Like I said, I was a new cat owner and would do a lot of things differently if given the opportunity.

Originally Posted by Minka

Ah, so I see you Are promoting the pickiness.

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Sadly, yes. She is currently in the pose to let me know I missed their 4:30 meal.

Just another quick one here: brewer's yeast can be an allergy trigger too.

Originally Posted by Misty8723

We got Cindy from the shelter in December 2005. She was refusing everything I put down (and I wasn't just picking it right back up again). The only thing she would finally eat was Iams Ocean Fish. I fed that for awhile until they both got sick on it, and I'll never feed to to any cat again. She is not a cat that will eventually eat it if I leave it down, and my DH is inclined if she looks hungry to give her some dry food. DH is a BIG part of the problem. Another issue is that the vet gave us some medicine to give her shortly after she came in, liquid. She got very very sick on it and I had a devil of a time getting her to eat anything for days. I finally got her to lick a little gravy, so I was putting bowls of gravy in front of her frequently. Yes, she got the impression she's an entitled princess, but I would do it again in a heartbeat.

Unless they are sick, cats Will eventually eat what you put down. Now if it's wet, you can't leave it down for too long otherwise it goes bad. So you have to do it in 30 min intervals and wait an hour or more before putting it down again. After 12 hours if they have eaten nothing, you put down a Tiny bit of the food they like, and the put the new food back down.

People are convinced that their cat will starve itself, but they really won't. Their instincts will kick in.

If I had it to do over, I would not put the dry food down. But I was an inexperienced cat owner and thought I was doing a good thing for all of us. Right now I feed them wet food at 5:30 AM when I get up, at 4:30 PM when I get home, and around 10:30 PM before I go to bed. They get about 1/3 of a 3 oz can each time. Feeding them during the night would not be an issue because I usually get up at least once anyway. Like I said, I was a new cat owner and would do a lot of things differently if given the opportunity.

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Does this schedule include free-fed dry?

Originally Posted by Misty8723

I definitely got rid of the bag. And I may see about getting that book and having DH read it. If it weren't for him I would do away with dry food entirely. I'm sorry I ever got it started. But thanks again.

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This book isn't the easiest read, both because of the content and because the author seems to have trouble connecting his thoughts in a logical, consistent manner. The information is relevant and sometimes riveting, but not always presented in a linear format.

I'm now reading Susan Thixton's "Buyer Beware: The Crimes, Lies and Truth About Pet Food". So far, it's living up to it's reviews as being the most comprehensive and easy to read of the books devoted to exposing the pet food industry's ingredient sourcing and manufacturing process practices.

I've also read Ann Martin's latest version of her, "Food Pets Die For: Shocking Facts About Pet Food" book. I found it rather shallow and learned almost nothing I didn't already know. The only information I gleaned from that book was a better understanding of the complexity and tightness of big agriculture, the pet food industry and the agencies that are supposed to be watching over the two... and none of that is truly helpful. Once you know they're all keeping each other in business (which I was aware of before getting the book), the rest is superfluous. Additionally, while I'm certain Ann has a great deal of knowledge around the PFI, she hasn't conducted the same due diligence on feline nutrition; the book contains several "recipes" for cats that are inappropriate, unbalanced and potentially dangerous in the long term. They include not just fruits and veggies, but grains! , nearly everything is cooked, and there's not a supplement in sight, not even taurine which everyone knows - or should know by now - is destroyed by cooking and is one of the many vital amino acids cats must obtain through their diet.

If you'd like to give your hubby something that talks specifically about kibble and the concerns around feeding it, I'd recommend printing off the 18 page printer-friendly version of CatInfo.org, as well as Dr. Pierson's separate Urinary Tract Health, Feline Diabetes and Feline Obesity articles.

Alternatively, you could purchase Dr. Hodgkins', "Your Cat: Simple New Secrets to a Longer, Stronger Life" although, of course, that book covers far more than just the detrimental aspects of feeding kibble.

- - - - - -

Well goodness, this post turned into a book review. Hope you don't mind, Misty! (I'm aware I sometimes cover topics more thoroughly than folks are actually looking for; I'm working on that. )

AC

Originally Posted by Misty8723

...
If I had it to do over, I would not put the dry food down. But I was an inexperienced cat owner and thought I was doing a good thing for all of us. Right now I feed them wet food at 5:30 AM when I get up, at 4:30 PM when I get home, and around 10:30 PM before I go to bed. They get about 1/3 of a 3 oz can each time. Feeding them during the night would not be an issue because I usually get up at least once anyway. Like I said, I was a new cat owner and would do a lot of things differently if given the opportunity.
...

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Am I reading this correctly... your cats are each eating three ounces of food per day?

That's about half what I would expect them to be eating. Is this because of the pickiness you're trying to deal with, or is this how much you're offering them?

AC