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Bengal Information

post #1 of 31
Thread Starter 
I know there are some people here with Bengals so I was wondering if anyone is willing to share their knowledge/experiences with them.

My brothers best friend has an F4, male Bengal, papers and all and will be acquiring a female next year and will be breeding them. I asked about the price and he said he would GIVE me one! I was soooooooo happy!

I am just wondering what I need to know about them. I want to make sure I understand their needs/personality 100% before I get the cat. Are they just a typical house cat? More/less active? Temperament? Any information will be great! I have been trying to research a bit myself but find a lot of mixed info floating around and I am confused. Some people say they are nasty, some people say its the best cat ever. Does the F4 part make a difference?

Sorry so many questions. I am so excited. I've wanted one for years lol.
post #2 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvMyParker View Post
I know there are some people here with Bengals so I was wondering if anyone is willing to share their knowledge/experiences with them.

My brothers best friend has an F4, male Bengal, papers and all and will be acquiring a female next year and will be breeding them. I asked about the price and he said he would GIVE me one! I was soooooooo happy!

I am just wondering what I need to know about them. I want to make sure I understand their needs/personality 100% before I get the cat. Are they just a typical house cat? More/less active? Temperament? Any information will be great! I have been trying to research a bit myself but find a lot of mixed info floating around and I am confused. Some people say they are nasty, some people say its the best cat ever. Does the F4 part make a difference?

Sorry so many questions. I am so excited. I've wanted one for years lol.
Bengals, like other cats, come in all different temperments. However, as a breed, Bengals typically are much more active than you regular domesticated house cat. Not only that - they are incredibly smart. I sometimes feel like I have a 5 year old at home instead of a 2 year old bengal! I try to outsmart her, but she always manages to outsmart me so we continue this game that she keeps playing.

The temperments are varied dependent upon the individual cat and how well they were socialized. Bengals, in general, are very curious, outgoing, intelligent and want to be involved in everything! They think that everything belongs to them and they love to play! A bengal needs play time to be pychologically happy.

Do you have other cats? If so, are they active? If not, you may want to consider two, or investing in many toys for your bengal. Mine can be aggressive at times when she plays and sometimes terrorizes my other cats. I often have to break them up because she won't back off.

The further removed the bengal is from the F1 generation the more domesticated and less wild traits will be exhibited. Also, their size will be more along the lines of a regular cat.

A bengal is a very interesting breed. Often I have watched mine and their hearing is incredible. She listens and reacts more like a dog than a cat. So I always tell people I have a dog with spots.

They often will bond with one person and once they do - they are very loyal. Don't get me wrong...they will always interact with others, but they are always drawn to that one person they pick out. Despite Keira being aggressive at times, she can be absolutely loving and wanting attention all the same.

I hope this helps you out some.
post #3 of 31
Thread Starter 
We have 3 cats at the moment but I don't see our eldest being around in a years time. The youngest of the other two is very active and playful. He is also a bit rough playing, so maybe a Bengal is a good companion for him.

The one I am getting will not be 100% either. The mother is actually just a Bengal/dsh mix. The father being F4 (which is I am assuming is much more domesticated) means the kitten will probably be more or less a regular cat then?

I did learn they are very active and I am prepared to deal with that. Plus there is almost always someone home, so it will seldom be alone.

Some great information there though. Thank you very much!
post #4 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvMyParker View Post
I know there are some people here with Bengals so I was wondering if anyone is willing to share their knowledge/experiences with them.

My brothers best friend has an F4, male Bengal, papers and all and will be acquiring a female next year and will be breeding them. I asked about the price and he said he would GIVE me one! I was soooooooo happy!

I am just wondering what I need to know about them. I want to make sure I understand their needs/personality 100% before I get the cat. Are they just a typical house cat? More/less active? Temperament? Any information will be great! I have been trying to research a bit myself but find a lot of mixed info floating around and I am confused. Some people say they are nasty, some people say its the best cat ever. Does the F4 part make a difference?

Sorry so many questions. I am so excited. I've wanted one for years lol.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duchess15 View Post
Bengals, like other cats, come in all different temperments. However, as a breed, Bengals typically are much more active than you regular domesticated house cat. Not only that - they are incredibly smart. I sometimes feel like I have a 5 year old at home instead of a 2 year old bengal! I try to outsmart her, but she always manages to outsmart me so we continue this game that she keeps playing.

The temperments are varied dependent upon the individual cat and how well they were socialized. Bengals, in general, are very curious, outgoing, intelligent and want to be involved in everything! They think that everything belongs to them and they love to play! A bengal needs play time to be pychologically happy.

Do you have other cats? If so, are they active? If not, you may want to consider two, or investing in many toys for your bengal. Mine can be aggressive at times when she plays and sometimes terrorizes my other cats. I often have to break them up because she won't back off.

The further removed the bengal is from the F1 generation the more domesticated and less wild traits will be exhibited. Also, their size will be more along the lines of a regular cat.

A bengal is a very interesting breed. Often I have watched mine and their hearing is incredible. She listens and reacts more like a dog than a cat. So I always tell people I have a dog with spots.

They often will bond with one person and once they do - they are very loyal. Don't get me wrong...they will always interact with others, but they are always drawn to that one person they pick out. Despite Keira being aggressive at times, she can be absolutely loving and wanting attention all the same.

I hope this helps you out some.
I think that is one of the BEST posts I have ever seen about the Bengal breed. Do you breed them or have a close friend who does?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvMyParker View Post
We have 3 cats at the moment but I don't see our eldest being around in a years time. The youngest of the other two is very active and playful. He is also a bit rough playing, so maybe a Bengal is a good companion for him.

The one I am getting will not be 100% either. The mother is actually just a Bengal/dsh mix. The father being F4 (which is I am assuming is much more domesticated) means the kitten will probably be more or less a regular cat then?

I did learn they are very active and I am prepared to deal with that. Plus there is almost always someone home, so it will seldom be alone.

Some great information there though. Thank you very much!
Yes, an F5 Bengal tends to be more like a "normal" cat. As previously stated just make sure you are prepared for a very active cat. But in my opinion they are not hyperactive like Savannahs. I own an F3 Savannah and while he is sweet he is hyperactive. I have done Bengal rescue and have worked with and rehomed/foster F1-F5 Bengals.

I think Bengals are a great breed of cat ! I would just make sure your kitten is well socialized. Since the Bengal is a descendant of the ALC (Asian Leopard Cat) the higher generations are prone to shyness. But I have seen many ill socialized F5-SBT's as well.

Lastly some lines of Bengals are prone to IBS in my experience with rescued ones. But that does not mean they all are.
post #5 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat Person View Post
I think that is one of the BEST posts I have ever seen about the Bengal breed. Do you breed them or have a close friend who does?
I have an aunt who breeds them and I learned a lot from her before picking out mine.
post #6 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duchess15 View Post
I have an aunt who breeds them and I learned a lot from her before picking out mine.
What generation Bengal do you have? What generations does your aunt breed? Does she breed F1's? If so could I have her contact information? Or could she recommend a good F1 breeder?
post #7 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat Person View Post
What generation Bengal do you have? What generations does your aunt breed? Does she breed F1's? If so could I have her contact information? Or could she recommend a good F1 breeder?
Keira is an F6 and beyond. She does not breed any F1's and I think everyone she knows breeds the same as she does. She never mentioned any F1 breeders to me.
post #8 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duchess15 View Post
Keira is an F6 and beyond. She does not breed any F1's and I think everyone she knows breeds the same as she does. She never mentioned any F1 breeders to me.
Okay thank you very very much . I am sure she would mention having F1 babies or at least you would see a male ALC .

Could you post photo's of your Keira in the cat lounge subpart/subset/section photo area of the message board when you have time? I would love to see photo's of your cat.

Lastly if you do not mind could you just post a link to it in this thread? I am notoriously bad at finding anything in that section .
post #9 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvMyParker View Post
The one I am getting will not be 100% either. The mother is actually just a Bengal/dsh mix. The father being F4 (which is I am assuming is much more domesticated) means the kitten will probably be more or less a regular cat then?
A bit off topic but I have to ask.. Are you getting a moggie from a backyard breeder or are the kittens going to be properly registered and bred? I don't recall DSHs being an allowed outcross in Bengals anymore? (Correct me if I'm wrong).
post #10 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat Person View Post
Okay thank you very very much . I am sure she would mention having F1 babies or at least you would see a male ALC .

Could you post photo's of your Keira in the cat lounge subpart/subset/section photo area of the message board when you have time? I would love to see photo's of your cat.

Lastly if you do not mind could you just post a link to it in this thread? I am notoriously bad at finding anything in that section .
I wish I could help, but I do not think she knows of any F1 breeders as she only communicates with those that share her similar interests. Besides, because she shows her cats they have to be F6 or beyond to even be in the show hall.

Here are some pictures of Keira...here are some of when she was younger.











post #11 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernGlow View Post
A bit off topic but I have to ask.. Are you getting a moggie from a backyard breeder or are the kittens going to be properly registered and bred? I don't recall DSHs being an allowed outcross in Bengals anymore? (Correct me if I'm wrong).
The kittens are not going to be registered, of course. I know this guy very well, he loves his cats and takes great care of them. He just wants to breed them once to see what patterns he gets. He is not out to make a bunch of money or anything.
post #12 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvMyParker View Post
The kittens are not going to be registered, of course. I know this guy very well, he loves his cats and takes great care of them. He just wants to breed them once to see what patterns he gets. He is not out to make a bunch of money or anything.
PLEASE PLEASE tell him not to breed. There are so many cats out there that already need homes... Even Bengals...
post #13 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minka View Post
PLEASE PLEASE tell him not to breed. There are so many cats out there that already need homes... Even Bengals...
Oh I know. But oddly enough, I have never seen a Bengal in a shelter around here. In fact, I've yet to see anything any rare/expensive/unique cats. For some reason, in this area, despite the large number of strays, people seem to favor "different cats".

Edit: Actually, if I see a Bengal in any of the shelters in my area before then, I will adopt one.
post #14 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvMyParker View Post
Oh I know. But oddly enough, I have never seen a Bengal in a shelter around here. In fact, I've yet to see anything any rare/expensive/unique cats. For some reason, in this area, despite the large number of strays, people seem to favor "different cats".

Edit: Actually, if I see a Bengal in any of the shelters in my area before then, I will adopt one.
To be specific, some people so much want a 'different' cat that they don't do any research. So the cat either ends up being returned to the breeder, or if it ends up in a shelter, is usually scooped up by a rescue specifically for that breed. http://www.petfinder.com/shelters/bengalrescue.html http://www.greatlakesbengalrescue.com/ http://northeastusbengalrescue.homestead.com/ etc etc
post #15 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duchess15 View Post
I wish I could help, but I do not think she knows of any F1 breeders as she only communicates with those that share her similar interests. Besides, because she shows her cats they have to be F6 or beyond to even be in the show hall.

Here are some pictures of Keira...here are some of when she was younger.

......
Your cat is GREAT looking. Thank you for sharing those photo's with me. Your aunt breeds an awesome looking lower generation cat .

Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvMyParker View Post
The kittens are not going to be registered, of course. I know this guy very well, he loves his cats and takes great care of them. He just wants to breed them once to see what patterns he gets. He is not out to make a bunch of money or anything.
I am not sure if Canada is different with T.I.C.A., but I am fairly sure your friend could still register the litter if he wanted. But if the cats are just going to good pet homes it hardly matters. Could you post picture's of your cat when you get him/her?
post #16 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvMyParker View Post
The kittens are not going to be registered, of course. I know this guy very well, he loves his cats and takes great care of them. He just wants to breed them once to see what patterns he gets. He is not out to make a bunch of money or anything.
If you show me pics and pedigree's of the sire and dam, I can tell you what patterns he would most likely get (or better yet, if he is going to breed cats he should know it himself already). No need to breed because of that. And obviously he isn't out to make a bunch of money, it's quite rare that anyone would pay $$$$ to get a DSH kitten.

Please do remind him to do all the necessary tests before breeding. It shouldn't be an issue if he's not in it for money. Does the breeder of the real Bengal know about this?

Duchess15, your kitty has gorgeous rosettes!
post #17 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat Person View Post
I am not sure if Canada is different with T.I.C.A., but I am fairly sure your friend could still register the litter if he wanted.
Yes, as household pets, but not as Bengals.
This is from TICA's registration rules:

Quote:
Category I: Established Breeds.
Bengal

37.2.1 Purpose. This category is for established breeds which are
approaching the present goals as set by their standards. These breeds have
a sufficiently large available gene pool within the breed that outcrosses to
other breeds (other than within a breed group) for improvement of type,
increased stamina, addition of new colors, etc., are largely unnecessary.
Likewise, the likelihood of finding cats of unregistered parentage which
would significantly improve the breed is minimal.

37.2.2 Requirements for Championship Exhibition. There can be
no outcross to other breeds except within a breed group within the three
generation pedigree. No unknown or unregistered cats may appear within
the three generation pedigree.

37.2.3 Requirements for Registration. The requirements for
registration are as set forth in the general registration rules of ARTICLES
SIX and SEVEN.
post #18 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minka View Post
To be specific, some people so much want a 'different' cat that they don't do any research. So the cat either ends up being returned to the breeder, or if it ends up in a shelter, is usually scooped up by a rescue specifically for that breed. http://www.petfinder.com/shelters/bengalrescue.html http://www.greatlakesbengalrescue.com/ http://northeastusbengalrescue.homestead.com/ etc etc
There are plenty of Bengal rescues within the US that I see but I am struggling to find one anywhere in Nova Scotia. I see a small number of breeders but no rescues and I can't find a single one for adoption around here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernGlow View Post
If you show me pics and pedigree's of the sire and dam, I can tell you what patterns he would most likely get (or better yet, if he is going to breed cats he should know it himself already). No need to breed because of that. And obviously he isn't out to make a bunch of money, it's quite rare that anyone would pay $$$$ to get a DSH kitten.

Please do remind him to do all the necessary tests before breeding. It shouldn't be an issue if he's not in it for money. Does the breeder of the real Bengal know about this?

Duchess15, your kitty has gorgeous rosettes!
He doesn't have the female yet, so I don't have any pictures of her. I'm pretty sure he just wants to breed them for people he knows that REALLY want a Bengal style cat. (They will not be given to just anyone. Only to people he is sure are dedicated to the well being of the animal.) He assured me the parents will be spayed/neutered after the first litter.

I do believe the original breeder knows, since they are friends.
post #19 of 31
Will an F4 Bengal bred to a regular DSH produce "Bengal-type" kittens? I guess I don't know enough about Bengals to know that. I know that if you breed a Siamese to a DSH, you sometimes end up with very un-Siamese-like kittens (although they're usually noisy, lol). It would be a shame if he just ended up producing normal-looking kittens and ended up not being able to find homes for them.
post #20 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willowy View Post
Will an F4 Bengal bred to a regular DSH produce "Bengal-type" kittens? I guess I don't know enough about Bengals to know that. I know that if you breed a Siamese to a DSH, you sometimes end up with very un-Siamese-like kittens (although they're usually noisy, lol). It would be a shame if he just ended up producing normal-looking kittens and ended up not being able to find homes for them.
The female is a Bengal/DSH mix but definitely has the markings. So if both parents have the marks, I imagine all the kittens will. He just wants some really cool looking cats he can give to people who want them.

If I feel like he is doing anything really wrong, or doesn't vaccinate the kittens and care for them properly, I just won't take one and I will let him know what I think. But I see the way he cares for his cats now and he loves them to bits and is very proud of that.
post #21 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvMyParker View Post
The female is a Bengal/DSH mix but definitely has the markings. So if both parents have the marks, I imagine all the kittens will.
And this is where the genetics step in. What marks are we talking about here? Marbled, regular spotted, rosettes? Brown (black), silver, snow (tonkinese or burmese lynx point)?

The sire being an F4 makes me assume there are some 'random' cats (DSHs or other breeds) in his pedigree which were used in his lines. The dam being a moggie could have basically anything in hers. This means there are no guarantees that the kittens will have strinking patterns and glitter. The kittens could even be just solid black (maybe even blue) or look like your average brown tabby DSH or DLH.

I hope your friend knows that it's very expensive to breed..tests for Bengals include FeLV, FIV, bloodgroup, HCM and PRA, perhaps even some others which I'm unaware of since I'm not into Bengals (Brits are 'my thing').
post #22 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernGlow View Post
And this is where the genetics step in. What marks are we talking about here? Marbled, regular spotted, rosettes? Brown (black), silver, snow (tonkinese or burmese lynx point)?

The sire being an F4 makes me assume there are some 'random' cats (DSHs or other breeds) in his pedigree which were used in his lines. The dam being a moggie could have basically anything in hers. This means there are no guarantees that the kittens will have strinking patterns and glitter. The kittens could even be just solid black (maybe even blue) or look like your average brown tabby DSH or DLH.

I hope your friend knows that it's very expensive to breed..tests for Bengals include FeLV, FIV, bloodgroup, HCM and PRA, perhaps even some others which I'm unaware of since I'm not into Bengals (Brits are 'my thing').
I think he said she is marbled. The picture below is the male. I'm willing to bet even if they don't all come out like that, he'd probably keep them if he wasn't able to rehome them. I would likely take one if it was different/unique looking regardless because I wouldn't see him stuck with them all. I do hope at least one comes out with spots, or marbled because I've wanted one for sooo long and as I said, they aren't easy to come by around here for whatever reason.

He is aware of the costs and he definitely has the means to do it. They (he and his wife) certainly paid a small fortune for the male.

Don't mind the "flying action" This pic was from a few months ago.
post #23 of 31
Oh, he's young still! Probably still under a year old? Does your friend know about the tomcat behaviors and characteristics he'll start to develop as he gets older? Is he prepared to deal with that? I would hate for his kitty to lose his home or his life because he starts doing what comes naturally to toms.
post #24 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minka View Post
PLEASE PLEASE tell him not to breed. There are so many cats out there that already need homes... Even Bengals...
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvMyParker View Post
Oh I know. But oddly enough, I have never seen a Bengal in a shelter around here. In fact, I've yet to see anything any rare/expensive/unique cats. For some reason, in this area, despite the large number of strays, people seem to favor "different cats".

Edit: Actually, if I see a Bengal in any of the shelters in my area before then, I will adopt one.
Before anyone says that they can find a specific breed in a rescue they need to be aware it depends on what part of the world you are in. In other words just because a breed is common in your area/state does not mean this is world wide. I know that for a fact.

My question is if you getting a kitten does not pan out can you "just pay" the shipping fee's on a F5 or below Bengal to get it into Canada? Since there are many F5 and SBT Bengals for adoption in the USA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernGlow View Post
Yes, as household pets, but not as Bengals.
.....
Thank you for the information.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvMyParker View Post
I think he said she is marbled. The picture below is the male. I'm willing to bet even if they don't all come out like that, he'd probably keep them if he wasn't able to rehome them. I would likely take one if it was different/unique looking regardless because I wouldn't see him stuck with them all. I do hope at least one comes out with spots, or marbled because I've wanted one for sooo long and as I said, they aren't easy to come by around here for whatever reason.

He is aware of the costs and he definitely has the means to do it. They (he and his wife) certainly paid a small fortune for the male.

Don't mind the "flying action" This pic was from a few months ago.
He is a very handsome looking boy. I can not wait to see his babies .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willowy View Post
Oh, he's young still! Probably still under a year old? Does your friend know about the tomcat behaviors and characteristics he'll start to develop as he gets older? Is he prepared to deal with that? I would hate for his kitty to lose his home or his life because he starts doing what comes naturally to toms.
I would hope the breeder knows a Tom Cat/whole cat sprays.
post #25 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvMyParker View Post
I think he said she is marbled. The picture below is the male.
Without knowing their pedigrees, I'll say that the kittens would likely be spotted tabbies unless the sire carries blotched (classic) tabby.
(Basically I came up with 56 different possibilities when assuming what the parents carry..)
post #26 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat Person View Post
I would hope the breeder knows a Tom Cat/whole cat sprays.
This guy isn't a breeder. Even if his breeder friend says "oh, tomcats spray", he might not understand the extent or severity of what exactly that means. Your average pet owner is going to freak out when the tom starts peeing on everything in sight, when the stove smells like a litterbox (I don't know why sprayers like stoves so much), when their house smells so bad nobody will visit them. A lot of casual breeders end up getting rid of their toms for this reason, and of course most of them end up dead because nobody else wants a sprayer either.

I just hope he's prepared to deal with that so he doesn't end up getting rid of the cat.
post #27 of 31
Exactly why all my kittens are altered before placement

Has the breeder been consulted? I doubt they would allow a pet to be used in a moggie breeding program and if they are allowing it should be reported to their registering body
post #28 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willowy View Post
This guy isn't a breeder. Even if his breeder friend says "oh, tomcats spray", he might not understand the extent or severity of what exactly that means. Your average pet owner is going to freak out when the tom starts peeing on everything in sight, when the stove smells like a litterbox (I don't know why sprayers like stoves so much), when their house smells so bad nobody will visit them. A lot of casual breeders end up getting rid of their toms for this reason, and of course most of them end up dead because nobody else wants a sprayer either.

I just hope he's prepared to deal with that so he doesn't end up getting rid of the cat.
The picture I posted was from May. His wife told me the cat peed on everything. All their clothes, bed, furniture. She said he did that a month or two ago but hasn't done it since.
post #29 of 31
Oh, he'll do it more if he's not neutered. He was probably just practicing that time .
post #30 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvMyParker View Post
There are plenty of Bengal rescues within the US that I see but I am struggling to find one anywhere in Nova Scotia. I see a small number of breeders but no rescues and I can't find a single one for adoption around here.
Oh, oops, I didn't realize you weren't from the US. :P My bad.
Other countries don't have the issues that the US does with strays/unwanted cats, but still I wouldn't encourage the type of behavior that started it all.


Quote:
He doesn't have the female yet, so I don't have any pictures of her. I'm pretty sure he just wants to breed them for people he knows that REALLY want a Bengal style cat. (They will not be given to just anyone. Only to people he is sure are dedicated to the well being of the animal.) He assured me the parents will be spayed/neutered after the first litter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willowy View Post
Will an F4 Bengal bred to a regular DSH produce "Bengal-type" kittens? I guess I don't know enough about Bengals to know that. I know that if you breed a Siamese to a DSH, you sometimes end up with very un-Siamese-like kittens (although they're usually noisy, lol). It would be a shame if he just ended up producing normal-looking kittens and ended up not being able to find homes for them.
Yea, idk, breeding a half-Bengal with another only slightly bengal sounds like a perfect way to end up with all regular cats and no homes for any of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvMyParker View Post
If I feel like he is doing anything really wrong, or doesn't vaccinate the kittens and care for them properly, I just won't take one and I will let him know what I think. But I see the way he cares for his cats now and he loves them to bits and is very proud of that.
That's great and all that you would tell him how you feel, but that doesn't fix the fact that he would be told Afterwards when there are already kittens born and without homes, proper care, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willowy View Post
Oh, he's young still! Probably still under a year old? Does your friend know about the tomcat behaviors and characteristics he'll start to develop as he gets older? Is he prepared to deal with that? I would hate for his kitty to lose his home or his life because he starts doing what comes naturally to toms.
Yea, it wasn't mentioned till now but his cat will not be able to live in the house soon. When you bring females around, he'll start spraying everywhere and if your friend has as much money as you made it sound like he has, he probably has some pretty nice things he wouldn't like to be ruined with cat pee...


Sorry to ruin the fun and what-not, but breeding should be taken seriously and not just because it'd make 'cool cats' and because he thinks he has homes for them all. I just see a disaster waiting to happen..
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