Does anyone feed whole prey diet?

cat person · Aug 24, 2011

Since many of you are very opinionated about your cats diet I want to know if anyone feeds whole prey to there domestic cats? By whole prey I mean either live or fresh frozen mice, rats, chickens and such food items.

I would imagine Amberthebobcat, the owner of the F1 Savannah Loki (Kali Bengal is the screen name maybe?) might do that type of diet. When I worked with Bobcats, Lynx, Jungle cats and high percentage Jungle cat hybrids that is the diet the cats ate.

But why did this type of diet not catch on with domestic cats? I am not trying to start trouble. Just asking a question.

minka · Aug 24, 2011

Does my cat stealing from a bird nest count?

I'm not sure what you mean by 'why didn't it catch on'. You mean, why don't more people feed this kind of diet?
Mostly because most cat owners think of cats as unimportant animals. Dogs get it a lot better; better food, more toys, more accommodation..
Also, the majority of people want quick and easy; they don't want to look at dead animals, chop them up, hear the crunching of bone.
*shrug* :/

cat person · Aug 24, 2011

Originally Posted by Minka

Does my cat stealing from a bird nest count?

I'm not sure what you mean by 'why didn't it catch on'. You mean, why don't more people feed this kind of diet?
Mostly because most cat owners think of cats as unimportant animals. Dogs get it a lot better; better food, more toys, more accommodation..
Also, the majority of people want quick and easy; they don't want to look at dead animals, chop them up, hear the crunching of bone.
*shrug* :/

Sure that can count

.

Yes that is what I meant by "catching on". I am not always sure people treat dogs better then cats. But I would tend to agree with you for the most part.

The whole prey diet would just require people look at the dead animals at least in my experience. No cutting, listening to bones crunched or chopping needed

.

auntie crazy · Aug 24, 2011

From another thread:

While feeding various types of whole prey is the "best" diet from a whole-body perspective, it is also the most difficult for the majority of cat owners. Most of the time, kibble and/or canned fed cats don't recognize the little animals sitting in their dishes as any sort of food and while it's definitely possible to help them come to relish this diet, the effort is time-consuming. In addition, many cat owners are actually animal people and feeding one fur-clad "friend" to another is difficult, especially during the transition process when extraordinary measures (don't ask unless you really want to know) are almost always necessary (this is the reason I do not fed whole prey - I tried and simply could not handle what I had to do before all my cats became aware that what I was offering was actually edible). Finally, most people don't have the resources necessary to raise their own cat food, and purchasing whole prey is more expensive than any other diet I've ever seen.

Trust me, Cat Person, unless you put your kitty on whole prey from the very beginning, or get really, really lucky with your cat, there's a whole lot more to transitioning to whole prey than just laying the mouse down (unfortunately

). I still have over a hundred mice in my cats' freezer that they're never going to eat and that I have no idea of what their final disposition will consist. *sigh*

AC

Willowy · Aug 24, 2011

Yeah, I like mice and rats, I've had both as pets, and I don't really think I could feed them to my cats. And I don't know that my cats would know what to do with a dead mouse (other than bat it around a lot and leave it lying somewhere to rot and stink up my house). This is probably why it didn't catch on. And whacking the rats into pieces would definitely be out of the question for me. Plus, a cat would need around 5 mice a day (or so I gather from what little info I could find on that subject). 150 mice a month would be difficult to procure, even if you bred your own that would be a huge breeding operation and expensive.

minka · Aug 24, 2011

Originally Posted by Auntie Crazy

Trust me, Cat Person, unless you put your kitty on whole prey from the very beginning, or get really, really lucky with your cat, there's a whole lot more to transitioning to whole prey than just laying the mouse down (unfortunately

). I still have over a hundred mice in my cats' freezer that they're never going to eat and that I have no idea of what their final disposition will consist. *sigh*

AC

If I ever decide to switch to raw, you can send them to me.

carolina · Aug 24, 2011

Originally Posted by Minka

Mostly because most cat owners think of cats as unimportant animals. Dogs get it a lot better; better food, more toys, more accommodation..

I am sorry Minka, but this as a reason to not feed whole pray is IMHO so, so insulting to me as a loving cat owner (and to the majority of TCS, who, as you know, do not feed this diet), and also so far away from the truth.... not even funny.

sweetpea24 · Aug 24, 2011

Originally Posted by Carolina

I am sorry Minka, but this as a reason to not feed whole pray is IMHO so, so insulting to me as a loving cat owner (and to the majority of TCS, who, as you know, do not feed this diet), and also so far away from the truth.... not even funny.

Just to add, and no disrespect meant, dogs don't get whole prey either. It just happens that some dogs will eat anything so it is much easier to feed them such a diet. Dogs that are fed a prey model diet aren't given the whole carcass, in most cases. They get the backs and some wings and the muscle and organs but typically not the whole prey.

I will say that, in general, cats are seen by the general public as more disposable than dogs. It is a sad reality and that is why there are cats running around without a home or are.stuck in shelters. Why.is it that if you look up ads there's always some for free kittens but never for free puppies? I would not say this about most cat owners because the ones I've met and those on this site would do anything for their cats. I am not sure why people consider cats disposable but if I were to guess, maybe because there are so many on the streets, people feel you can get them anywhere and cheap. Also, it is generally more costly to get a dog so maybe people think they are worth more. I certainly don't support this view but I have read about people trying to eliminate this prejudice against our feline friends.

Sorry don't mean to detract from the original topic...

carolina · Aug 24, 2011

Originally Posted by SweetPea24

Just to add, and no disrespect meant, dogs don't get whole prey either. It just happens that some dogs will eat anything so it is much easier to feed them such a diet. Dogs that are fed a prey model diet aren't given the whole carcass, in most cases. They get the backs and some wings and the muscle and organs but typically not the whole prey.

I will say that, in general, cats are seen by the general public as more disposable than dogs. It is a sad reality and that is why there are cats running around without a home or are.stuck in shelters. Why.is it that if you look up ads there's always some for free kittens but never for free puppies? I would not say this about most cat owners because the ones I've met and those on this site would do anything for their cats. I am not sure why people consider cats disposable but if I were to guess, maybe because there are so many on the streets, people feel you can get them anywhere and cheap. Also, it is generally more costly to get a dog so maybe people think they are worth more. I certainly don't support this view but I have read about people trying to eliminate this prejudice against our feline friends.

Sorry don't mean to detract from the original topic...

Certainly, nothing to do why a cat owner would not feed a prey diet - that I can guarantee you. And to hear that simplistic answer as a reason why this diet is not fed, really bothers me.

minka · Aug 25, 2011

Originally Posted by Carolina

I am sorry Minka, but this as a reason to not feed whole pray is IMHO so, so insulting to me as a loving cat owner (and to the majority of TCS, who, as you know, do not feed this diet), and also so far away from the truth.... not even funny.

It is the truth though Carolina..
A member of another cat forum will tell you the same. She works in pet store retail and dog owners in general really do put more effort into their dogs than their cats.
You have to realize that for right now, we are the Minority. As sad as it is, it really is the truth...

What I was trying to say was: because the majority of cat owners don't want to/don't care to take the time to look into their cat's diet past grabbing a bag of Friskies, they would never look into raw or ever find out about it, and therefor would never have the chance to feed a whole prey diet. And so, it has not caught on.

carolina · Aug 25, 2011

Originally Posted by Minka

It is the truth though Carolina..
A member of another cat forum will tell you the same. She works in pet store retail and dog owners in general really do put more effort into their dogs than their cats.
You have to realize that for right now, we are the Minority. As sad as it is, it really is the truth...

What I was trying to say was: because the majority of cat owners don't want to/don't care to take the time to look into their cat's diet past grabbing a bag of Friskies, they would never look into raw or ever find out about it, and therefor would never have the chance to feed a whole prey diet. And so, it has not caught on.

So Minka, why do an owner like us, here on TCS, like me, who will do anythyng for my babies, will not feed this diet? What is your take on it. You have many like me here. I sold pretty much all I had to pay for my Bugsys heathy care (and gracie's), when I was unemployed.. Their wet food today for my trip was $180 plus the dry, another 100... My food was about $30. Their meds was about another 100... Mine, around $80. You see the pattern here? Their food is served and spoon-fed at that, before I have anything to eat. When I didn't health insurance, they had.
Clearly their care and wellbeing comes before mine.
My house is completely modified for them-shelves on the living room, sills, trees, baby gates... Feliway on the walls... This is clearly a cat's house, and I am their loving care taker, rent payer, food provider.
So, in the situation where clearly they ARE my life an I will do EVERYTHING for them, what is your theory for me to no be feeding a whole prey diet?

minka · Aug 25, 2011

Originally Posted by Carolina

So Minka, why do an owner like us, here on TCS, like me, who will do anythyng for my babies, will not feed this diet? What is your take on it. You have many like me here. I sold pretty much all I had to pay for my Bugsys heathy care (and gracie's), when I was unemployed.. Their wet food today for my trip was $180 plus the dry, another 100... My food was about $30. Their meds was about another 100... Mine, around $80. You see the pattern here? Their food is served and spoon-fed at that, before I have anything to eat. When I didn't health insurance, they had.
Clearly their care and wellbeing comes before mine.
My house is completely modified for them-shelves on the living room, sills, trees, baby gates... Feliway on the walls... This is clearly a cat's house, and I am their loving care taker, rent payer, food provider.
So, in the situation where clearly they ARE my life an I will do EVERYTHING for them, what is your theory for me to no be feeding a whole prey diet?

The OP asked 'why didn't it catch on?' Since we are the minority here, even if we did All feed whole prey, from the perspective of all cat owners, whole prey still wouldn't be classified as having 'caught on.'

And as for the members here, my second sentence would apply - "Also, the majority of people want quick and easy; they don't want to look at dead animals, chop them up, hear the crunching of bone."

There is no reason to get so angry. I am not questioning your love of cats, nor the love of anyone else here.

auntie crazy · Aug 25, 2011

The question of "why not?"- whether that's referring to 'why not let cats outside', 'why not have one litter box per cat plus one', 'why not feed cats raw' or why not anything else - needs to be approached carefully.

There are many reasons why people are caring for their cats as they are. Sometimes they don't know there are options, or that some of those options may be better than their current choices, many times there are financial or other resource constraints, sometimes they're following a veterinarian's advice while caring for an ill, old or otherwise-compromised beloved - if furry - member of their family, and so on... there's no way to even guess all the reasons.

TCS, however, is a subset of the general population - a subset that is particularly concerned with their cats AND has the resources to contribute to online discussions. I don't believe there is a single member on this forum who doesn't love and adore their cat, who doesn't make their cat's care a top priority and who isn't doing the best they can for their cats. Their choices for that care and the reasons for those choices are going to be very different from those of the general population, and that absolutely must be taken into account when discussing any "why not" topic.

In my opinion.

AC

cat person · Aug 25, 2011

Originally Posted by Auntie Crazy

From another thread:

While feeding various types of whole prey is the "best" diet from a whole-body perspective, it is also the most difficult for the majority of cat owners. Most of the time, kibble and/or canned fed cats don't recognize the little animals sitting in their dishes as any sort of food and while it's definitely possible to help them come to relish this diet, the effort is time-consuming. In addition, many cat owners are actually animal people and feeding one fur-clad "friend" to another is difficult, especially during the transition process when extraordinary measures (don't ask unless you really want to know) are almost always necessary (this is the reason I do not fed whole prey - I tried and simply could not handle what I had to do before all my cats became aware that what I was offering was actually edible). Finally, most people don't have the resources necessary to raise their own cat food, and purchasing whole prey is more expensive than any other diet I've ever seen.

Click to expand...

Trust me, Cat Person, unless you put your kitty on whole prey from the very beginning, or get really, really lucky with your cat, there's a whole lot more to transitioning to whole prey than just laying the mouse down (unfortunately

). I still have over a hundred mice in my cats' freezer that they're never going to eat and that I have no idea of what their final disposition will consist. *sigh*

AC

I only know three people who did the whole prey diet with there domestic cats. They had no problem changing the cats over to the diet. Now all three cat cases where indoor/outdoor cats. So they knew what mice and such prey animals where for. So I am sure that helped.

Loki my F3 Savannah would like your mice if you care to donate them

?

Originally Posted by Willowy

Yeah, I like mice and rats, I've had both as pets, and I don't really think I could feed them to my cats. And I don't know that my cats would know what to do with a dead mouse (other than bat it around a lot and leave it lying somewhere to rot and stink up my house). This is probably why it didn't catch on. And whacking the rats into pieces would definitely be out of the question for me. Plus, a cat would need around 5 mice a day (or so I gather from what little info I could find on that subject). 150 mice a month would be difficult to procure, even if you bred your own that would be a huge breeding operation and expensive.

The only economical way I could see to feed whole prey is to buy it like people buy for there reptiles or breeding your own feeding supply.

goingpostal · Aug 25, 2011

I feed mice, as far as cost, I breed them for my snake and ferrets so it's not an issue and generally kitty gets them very fresh, however like stated you need quite a few mice if you are using as much of the diet. I use them as one meal of the day or something, usually a couple times a week, depends on how many spares I have, but I wish she would eat more whole prey options, you get the plus of a complete diet, roughage and all. Honestly I would say most cat owners probably aren't comfortable buying cute little micecicles to feed and most cats wouldn't know what to do with it. My cat only started eating them because a few got loose and her prey drive kicked in, took her awhile to be ok with prekilled, thawed mice and can't get her to even try anything else, the ferrets eat whole quail, guinea pigs and rats but she won't touch them so far.

carolina · Aug 25, 2011

Originally Posted by Auntie Crazy

The question of "why not?"- whether that's referring to 'why not let cats outside', 'why not have one litter box per cat plus one', 'why not feed cats raw' or why not anything else - needs to be approached carefully.

There are many reasons why people are caring for their cats as they are. Sometimes they don't know there are options, or that some of those options may be better than their current choices, many times there are financial or other resource constraints, sometimes they're following a veterinarian's advice while caring for an ill, old or otherwise-compromised beloved - if furry - member of their family, and so on... there's no way to even guess all the reasons.

TCS, however, is a subset of the general population - a subset that is particularly concerned with their cats AND has the resources to contribute to online discussions. I don't believe there is a single member on this forum who doesn't love and adore their cat, who doesn't make their cat's care a top priority and who isn't doing the best they can for their cats. Their choices for that care and the reasons for those choices are going to be very different from those of the general population, and that absolutely must be taken into account when discussing any "why not" topic.

In my opinion.

AC

Thank you AC, I think the answer is far, far more complex then a simple - cat owners don't care enough about their cats to feed like dog owners care about their dogs- type of answer..... That one I won't accept....
I agree wholeheartedly.... There are many reasons... A few of the cited resons by you just here in my home alone!

cat person · Aug 25, 2011

Originally Posted by GoingPostal

I feed mice, as far as cost, I breed them for my snake and ferrets so it's not an issue and generally kitty gets them very fresh, however like stated you need quite a few mice if you are using as much of the diet. I use them as one meal of the day or something, usually a couple times a week, depends on how many spares I have, but I wish she would eat more whole prey options, you get the plus of a complete diet, roughage and all. Honestly I would say most cat owners probably aren't comfortable buying cute little micecicles to feed and most cats wouldn't know what to do with it. My cat only started eating them because a few got loose and her prey drive kicked in, took her awhile to be ok with prekilled, thawed mice and can't get her to even try anything else, the ferrets eat whole quail, guinea pigs and rats but she won't touch them so far.

Yes you hit the nail on the head in my opinion regarding the poor cute mouse. I have worked with and breed various reptiles and exotic birds. So I am used to the "predator" and "prey" relationship. But like you said most people are not.

I agree about mice and birds being a complete diet and all the benefits of such diet. Loki my F3 Savannah gets a mouse a day for the past three weeks. He plays with it for about two hours before killing it. He then eats it. Do you feed live quail to the ferrets? I am going to go and get a fresh frozen one and see how it goes

. Thank you for the idea

.

Before you all jump down my throat the mice are raised to be eaten. Like from a pet store. I am sure many of you are offend. But this is just "nature" and most importantly environmental enrichement if you ask me.

goingpostal · Aug 25, 2011

My cat never really plays with her mice, but at the same time she doesn't quite grasp how to kill them, she just catches and starts eating, which I'm sure is quite lovely for the mouse but I CO2 some of my feeders and that isn't any faster really. The ferrets prey is all prekilled frozen, except mice sometimes I let my female dispatch them, depends on how many I am euthing that day. They love mice the best but quail is a close second. I just order most of my feeders from rodentpro or haretoday.

cat person · Aug 25, 2011

Originally Posted by GoingPostal

My cat never really plays with her mice, but at the same time she doesn't quite grasp how to kill them, she just catches and starts eating, which I'm sure is quite lovely for the mouse but I CO2 some of my feeders and that isn't any faster really. The ferrets prey is all prekilled frozen, except mice sometimes I let my female dispatch them, depends on how many I am euthing that day. They love mice the best but quail is a close second. I just order most of my feeders from rodentpro or haretoday.

I have used rodentpro with great results

. I have heard great things about haretoday but never used them. Did you find them to be easy to work with?

Thanks very much

.

goingpostal · Aug 25, 2011

I like hare today, they rock because I can't really get anything for organs locally, just poultry livers so I usually order a bunch of organs, some quail, rabbit, chicken necks, etc, nice because they will do 2-3 day shipping which is a lot cheaper! But organs come in huge frozen hunks so I had my whole fridge full of food while it thawed enough to chop and bag smaller. Prices I find are reasonable except on guinea pigs.

Does anyone feed whole prey diet?

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