Does anyone feed whole prey diet? - Page 3

Like, I wouldn't have to worry quite so much about whether Ritz is getting the correct ratio of meat/bone/liver/other organ [kidney in Ritz' case].  I think I was "loosy goosy" with the ratios when I started feeding Ritz frankenprey; I can't make up my own ratios.  Ritz suffered through a four-day episode of runny diarrehea, then four days of not pooping at all, and then an enema (at least a week after starting frankenprey).  Not to mention a shot of Metacam.

But first things first:  I have to determine if Ritz will recognize a pinkie or small mouse as food.  Then figure out how many ounces of mice/quail to feed her which I don't think will be difficult to calculate.  Saying NO, you've had enough food already, that's difficult.

I hope/plan to feed only the occasional fresh frozen/pre-killed prey.  Today, commercial raw; tomorrow, frankenprey; today after tomorrow, occasional fresh frozen/pre-killed prey (assuming Ritz recognizes it as food and eats it).

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Originally Posted by Cat Person 

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Originally Posted by GoingPostal Who's to say reptiles and roaches don't feel pain or fear? And if they didn't, why does that make it any more ok to feed your cats crickets than to feed mine mice? They are still a living creature. I have reptiles and I assure you, they get frightened and stressed. I also do gas many of my rodents, did some tonight and doing co2 correctly, my cat could easily eat a couple mice in the time it takes them to die from gassing. She doesn't play with them however and I wouldn't allow her live mice if she did. I only have one ferret who kills mice, because the rest are horrible at all but she is an impressively fast killer biting the spine.

I agree with you one hundred percent . I simply think people think of the poor cute mouse but not the icky lizard. In my opinion it all comes down to the "cuteness" factor.

I don't want to start a heated debate here. I am as much a small animal guy as a cat guy, but when puting reptiles first some picky eaters, and would rather starve to death than eat something already dead. some won't eat mice at all but will hapily take a gerble witch can only be purchased live. I'm not speaking  from expirience on this one, but I can understand how cats would be more  willing to except a live animal as food.

My cats have been eating mostly whole prey for about 5 years now. I am lucky to have a good supply of prey available at reasonable prices. I buy in bulk from a company that supplies zoos and falconers.
I feed mainly quails (ex-layer hens), pigeons (ex-racing pigeons), day old chicks ("byproduct" of egg-production) and mice. In addition to the whole prey I feed cheap venison cuttings and a commercially made raw diet made of organic beef and chicken.

My other pets are two hedgehogs and I do feed them live insects because they won't eat dead insects. Whenever the hedgehogs' live food escapes my cats get to eat live prey

It seems unnecessarily cruel to feed live rodents or birds to my cats because they will eat them just fine when they're dead.

The reasons why I think a whole prey diet will never really catch on;

- most people don't like feeding recognizable animals to their cats because they find it too confronting to face the reality that cat food and meat in general once was an actual living animal.

- some cats drag their food around and make a mess.

My domestic shorthair shelter cat and my f5c savannah (think: not much serval, regular little kitty) are both fed whole prey.

This thread made me smile.  I have to reply to a couple things.

I had little to no problem transitioning my cats - my domestic ate raw before he went to whole prey.  It wasn't a stretch.  My Savannah came here knowing raw, and admired her new big bro so much she'd eat anything he would.  Maybe I'm just lucky, or it was the timing.  I'm hearing all sort of stories of how hard it is, even with cats where I wouldn't expect an issue - so I guess that's a concern

I didn't buy 100 mice at first - just bought a few pinkies.  Slowly introduced to reasonably hungry cat.  I only really had to "cut up" in the beginning, just so he would eat it instead of playing with it.  Today, nothing needs to be cut up.  they eat the whole thing, head to tail (head first) and don't leave a bit.

I feed different sizes and ages of rats, mice, quail, chicks.  This provides good variety to ensure a better nutritional balance.  

Mine don't even care if they're still frozen.  Which is how I buy them... from dealers who specialize in providing carnivore diets (snakes, hawks, etc - even cats) to both the public and to zoos.  layne labs & rodent pro each has different stock and different shipping costs.  Once you're sure your cat is fully transitioned, it's worth it to buy from them and fill the freezer up :)  Before that, it's a crapshoot, it sounds like.

The little baggies at petco in the freezer are REALLY expensive - and were pretty well freezer burned to bits when I tried that route.  Can't recommend it - especially if you're trying to do the transition.  They need to taste prey they LIKE before they will eat mousesicles like mine will ;)

The dealers are required (and should advertise such) to euthanize safely by approved means.  Both of these use co2.  This won't hurt your cats later

Also, I had a pet rat as a kid.  I loved my rat.  I love so many species of animals.  I've also had pet snakes who ate small prey - and other interesting pets with different dietary needs.  So I maybe had an edge on the ick factor and the "poor little mouse" part.  Long ago I learned not to befriend the snake chow.  That said, I was a little more saddened by their little dead bodies in the beginning... But like my momma, who grew up on a farm and was used to seeing something she'd been feeding and raising end up on the dinner table, I sucked it up and got used to the whole cycle of life thing.  Which is good, because this is really what cats are designed to eat, eh.  

=Maeve=  

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Originally Posted by Carolina 

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Originally Posted by Minka It is the truth though Carolina.. A member of another cat forum will tell you the same. She works in pet store retail and dog owners in general really do put more effort into their dogs than their cats. You have to realize that for right now, we are the Minority. As sad as it is, it really is the truth... What I was trying to say was: because the majority of cat owners don't want to/don't care to take the time to look into their cat's diet past grabbing a bag of Friskies, they would never look into raw or ever find out about it, and therefor would never have the chance to feed a whole prey diet. And so, it has not caught on.

So Minka, why do an owner like us, here on TCS, like me, who will do anythyng for my babies, will not feed this diet? What is your take on it. You have many like me here. I sold pretty much all I had to pay for my Bugsys heathy care (and gracie's), when I was unemployed.. Their wet food today for my trip was $180 plus the dry, another 100... My food was about $30. Their meds was about another 100... Mine, around $80. You see the pattern here? Their food is served and spoon-fed at that, before I have anything to eat. When I didn't health insurance, they had.
Clearly their care and wellbeing comes before mine.
My house is completely modified for them-shelves on the living room, sills, trees, baby gates... Feliway on the walls... This is clearly a cat's house, and I am their loving care taker, rent payer, food provider.
So, in the situation where clearly they ARE my life an I will do EVERYTHING for them, what is your theory for me to no be feeding a whole prey diet?

I would like to quote Carolina here because our lifestyle (myself and my husband) revolves around our five cats, not so much with toys, but with feeding and attention.

I'd say that our food cost (for humans) is about 6th of a cost of feeding our cats.

We have two dogs also - very happy dogs too whom we love just the same, but they cost us a lot less than cats.

But yes, statistically around the world owners spend more money on dogs then on cats.

Just like Carolina's house - our house and yard as well practically re-designed for the needs and fun for our cats.  Even though our cats are not inside-only (unfortunately it's not possible in where we live), but what we do is the surest way to keep them inside the property most of the time.

Prey?  Well, my cats are on mainly raw diet, but if the prey was available where we live for sale - we'd definitely buy it.  All my cats are of feral origin and have no specific breed.

So, some of my cats love to hunt and eat their own prey.  And we encourage them.  They bring their prey into the house, play with it and eat it in-front of our eyes.  Sadly - not often enough to my liking they eat fresh prey.

Of course, cats are different too.  One of my cats will not touch prey, nor will she kill anything alive.  Midnight would play with insects and lizzards but let them go without harming them.  Amazing, isn't it?

May, Johnie and Janie are real mousers, and May also is good in catching an occasional bird.  Ambie would hunt and if possible - kill, but I never saw her eating her prey.  She'd give it to others who would eat it.  But that's life.  It's cats' life.

We too had a hamster when I was a child, and we had a cat who was really skilled in killing and eating all sorts of prey, but she would not touch that pet of ours, even when the hamster would be so brave as to go to that cat and crawl all over her.  She would just put on a face and tolerate it.

Cats are smart.  They know who are family and don't harm them mostly.  But even if their instinct takes over - what can you do?  For us, cat lovers they are our choice for a companion, and don't we all do the best we can for them?

Whole prey might actually be more available than you think - reptile stores, although seldom mentioned, can be a great source of prey items, very often at fairly decent prices. Do a google search and see if any are within an acceptable driving distance. If you find one that's a bit far away, give them a call and ask if you can do a bulk purchase.

Cats eating wild animals are at risk for parasites and intestinal worms. If you can't bring your cats inside, you won't be able to protect them from these animals, but you should keep an extra eye on their health and pooping habits so you can bring them in to a vet at the earliest indication of a problem.

AC

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Originally Posted by Auntie Crazy 

 

 

Whole prey might actually be more available than you think - reptile stores, although seldom mentioned, can be a great source of prey items, very often at fairly decent prices. Do a google search and see if any are within an acceptable driving distance. If you find one that's a bit far away, give them a call and ask if you can do a bulk purchase.

 

Cats eating wild animals are at risk for parasites and intestinal worms. If you can't bring your cats inside, you won't be able to protect them from these animals, but you should keep an extra eye on their health and pooping habits so you can bring them in to a vet at the earliest indication of a problem.

 

AC

Thanks AC!

Though we have only one pet shop in whole town where hardly anything of use is sold.

Reptile shops do not exist here.  Google search brings only few results and links don't give anything much and almost nothing of value for cats.  Very few businesses here have their web sites.

I asked around in some places for whole prey - they just laughed at me.  There of course crocodile farms, but they don't feed small prey.  They feed dead cows and such.  I've been to some farms like that.

I had a thought to buy some live chicks and let them kill and eat, but just never had a heart to go ahead with it, and my husband is so against it.

I do agree about safety of indoors and suffer the outcome of impossibility to keep my kitties inside only.

I de-worm them on regular bases though, so worms were never an issue for us.
 

Good golly, Ambermay - that one's on me!!! I had no idea you lived in Africa and it didn't occur to me to check. Just ignore everything I wrote.

From the sounds of it - you guys are awesome pet parents! And, yeah, raising and killing small animals can take a heck of an emotional toll. A very long time ago, I raised rats to feed snakes... everything was fine until one day, it wasn't. I simply couldn't kill them anymore.  *shudder*

We all do the best we can under our individual circumstances!

AC

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Originally Posted by Auntie Crazy 

 

Good golly, Ambermay - that one's on me!!! I had no idea you lived in Africa and it didn't occur to me to check. Just ignore everything I wrote.

 

From the sounds of it - you guys are awesome pet parents! And, yeah, raising and killing small animals can take a heck of an emotional toll. A very long time ago, I raised rats to feed snakes... everything was fine until one day, it wasn't. I simply couldn't kill them anymore.  *shudder*

 

We all do the best we can under our individual circumstances!

 

AC

Thank you AC for understanding.

What you said was also part of my life a while ago in a way.

I worked on farms some many years ago, and as you know farms raise and kill animals for human consumption.

So, time came when I could not work there anymore (emotional issues as well).

I even thought I' never be around any animal for the rest of my life, but little did I know...

I'm back on a hot plate - this time with my fur-children - worry, worry and endless worry about them.

But it is so worth it - they are endless joy as well.
 

I so admire you for going above and beyond.

Are there food stores that cater to people from developed countries such as United Kingdom.  Their food standards might be higher, and perhaps you could shop there.  Same with high-end hotels.  Hotels must be careful of where they buy meat, or risk being sued for food poisoning.

I'm just trying to think waaayyyy out the box.