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Need Cat Box Help!!!

post #1 of 21
8/22/11 at 11:50pm
Thread Starter 
Hello,

I have a problem that I hope somebody can help me with. I currently own 2 beautiful female cats. One is 3 years old (Zoe) and the other is 2 (Noo-Noo).

Well Zoe is driving me crazy, she is a bit of priss and is extemely needy for attention. She also has a tendency to boss Noo-Noo,the 2 year old, around but for the most part she's not to bad with her.

She is such a priss that if I go to give both the cat's a treat. Zoe will first look around for the other cat, and if she is there will put her nose in the air and walk away. She won't eat the treat, she won't even stand there. She literally walks away and goes in another room. (Obviously some jealousy)

Now here's the problem. I have 2 litter boxes. One Litter Robot, and another Petsafe Automated Cleaner. The boxes are spotless, the litter is new and clean. Well Zoe is refusing to poop in any box that Noo-Noo uses. and with the 2 litter boxes Noo-Noo doesn't discriminate. Zoe will pee in the box, but refuses to poop.

We have had her checked out by the vet multiple times and everytime she is cleared with a clean bill of health. The vet suggested retraining in a bathroom for a week and says its obvious "sibling rivalry"

Well we did, and the second she see/smells Noo-Noo use the box. She the refuses to use it again. I have even installed a video camera on the litter box to "see" what she is doing.

I've recorded her literally sniffing around both boxes, sniffing the inside, etc for minutes. And then refuses to use it.

I'm at my witts end with this cat.

The only thing I haven't tried is "litter retraining" them both in the bathroom at the same time. This way Zoe has no choice, but use the box Noo-Noo does.

Any help would be appreciated.
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post #2 of 21
8/23/11 at 12:05am
Hi, Catcrazy101! Welcome to TCS!

This isn't an everyday type of problem, but it's common enough that's it's not considered rare. My solution for this would be to get another box or even two, and to scoop them all as frequently as possible. This will give her the clean box Zoe is looking for.

Something else that you might find helpful, just in general, is Pam Johnson-Bennett's book, "Cat Vs. Cat: Keeping Peace When You Have More Than One Cat." It discusses cat language in detail and I found it fascinating in places. Without a doubt, it's helped me maintain a six-cat peaceful household.

Oh, speaking of peaceful, have you tried Feliway plugins? They don't have an effect on every cat, but they do on most. I used them when I had fosters and it made a very noticeable difference in settling everyone down and almost completely eliminating arguments. You'll need one plug-in per average-sized room and Amazon usually offers better prices than can be found in pet stores (3 PACK Feliway Electric Diffuser).

Good luck!

AC
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post #3 of 21
8/23/11 at 12:16am
Two things I would try are:
*Adding a third or fourth litter box
*Feeding Zoe in a bathroom or somewhere away from Noo-Noo with a litterbox only for her.

My cat usually poops right after he eats, so it shouldn't be too hard to get her to eat then go poop, then be free to wander the house in peace.

P.s. where does she poop if not in the litter box?
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post #4 of 21
8/23/11 at 12:20am
Thread Starter 
thank you for the reply, I tried the fellaway when i originally introduced the two cats. The 2 year old Noo-Noo is very laid back as it is, and she really seamed to respond to it.

The 3 year old Zoe (ie. Problem Child) didn't seem to help. However I will add some to the "training room" tomorrow. This problem I've had with this cat isn't the first time this has happened.

It happened last year, when we took her (Zoe) to the vet. He said it could be a "painful poop" that caused the scenario. We began laxing her twice a day for a month, retrained her and problem seemed to stop, however it has begun again.

We have been laxing twice a day for the last 3 weeks, and been retraining for 2 weeks. And she was good for about a day after the "retraining"

I'm not sure if it is a "behavioral" problem with the other cat, or if there something else. The poop looks a little dry to me (not that I'm a cat poop expert) but she is laxed twice daily per Vet orders and I know she isn't straining per the video.

I do believe it is behavioral though, she seems to like to poop for daddy, but not so much when mommy is around.
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post #5 of 21
8/23/11 at 12:27am
Thread Starter 
She seems to prefer to poop on the rug, mostly of the time in the corner of the room.

Currently, I'm retraining her in a small bathroom, with the litter robot, water, food, cat bed, and toys. (i'll add fellaway tomorow)

She is such a little angel, but I think she's so jealous of the other cat. Interestingly enough the other cat is bigger, but definitely not a threat to Zoe. Noo-Noo is a big mush of a cat who is either spending the day eating or sleeping. Zoe is a little fireball and lives for attention.

Zoe actually gets at least twice as much attention, because Noo-Noo is literally sleeping.

ps. Thanks all for help and suggestion
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post #6 of 21
8/23/11 at 12:29am
Have you made sure to thoroughly clean that corner with specialized cleaners?
Do you have anything you can place there to cover the area?
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post #7 of 21
8/23/11 at 12:39am
Thread Starter 
Everytime I spray with natures miracle.

However If i take a large box and put it over the spot she likes. She will literally find another corner of the room and go there.
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post #8 of 21
8/23/11 at 1:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catcrazy101 View Post
..
It happened last year, when we took her (Zoe) to the vet. He said it could be a "painful poop" that caused the scenario. We began laxing her twice a day for a month, retrained her and problem seemed to stop, however it has begun again.

We have been laxing twice a day for the last 3 weeks, and been retraining for 2 weeks. And she was good for about a day after the "retraining"

I'm not sure if it is a "behavioral" problem with the other cat, or if there something else. The poop looks a little dry to me (not that I'm a cat poop expert) but she is laxed twice daily per Vet orders and I know she isn't straining per the video.

....
Are you feeding kibble or canned, Catcrazy? Kibble fed cat's are chronically dehydrated and that could explain why your kitty's poops are dry. And if it that's the case, it's likely causing her some discomfort when she poops, which would make her avoid the litter box since she would associate it with hurting. Getting her hydrated just might fix this problem for you, and the easiest way to do that is through a canned diet (and no more laxatives!). You could even mix a teaspoon or two into the water - just for a little while - to help hydrate her even more.

AC
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post #9 of 21
8/23/11 at 3:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catcrazy101 View Post
Hello,

I have a problem that I hope somebody can help me with. I currently own 2 beautiful female cats. One is 3 years old (Zoe) and the other is 2 (Noo-Noo).

Well Zoe is driving me crazy, she is a bit of priss and is extemely needy for attention. She also has a tendency to boss Noo-Noo,the 2 year old, around but for the most part she's not to bad with her.

She is such a priss that if I go to give both the cat's a treat. Zoe will first look around for the other cat, and if she is there will put her nose in the air and walk away. She won't eat the treat, she won't even stand there. She literally walks away and goes in another room. (Obviously some jealousy)

Now here's the problem. I have 2 litter boxes. One Litter Robot, and another Petsafe Automated Cleaner. The boxes are spotless, the litter is new and clean. Well Zoe is refusing to poop in any box that Noo-Noo uses. and with the 2 litter boxes Noo-Noo doesn't discriminate. Zoe will pee in the box, but refuses to poop.

We have had her checked out by the vet multiple times and everytime she is cleared with a clean bill of health. The vet suggested retraining in a bathroom for a week and says its obvious "sibling rivalry"

Well we did, and the second she see/smells Noo-Noo use the box. She the refuses to use it again. I have even installed a video camera on the litter box to "see" what she is doing.

I've recorded her literally sniffing around both boxes, sniffing the inside, etc for minutes. And then refuses to use it.

I'm at my witts end with this cat.

The only thing I haven't tried is "litter retraining" them both in the bathroom at the same time. This way Zoe has no choice, but use the box Noo-Noo does.

Any help would be appreciated.
I would recommend you use two LARGE uncovered litter boxes next to each other in three different spots. So that would be a total of six large uncovered boxes threw out your home.
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post #10 of 21
8/23/11 at 8:17pm
Thread Starter 
Interesting you say the kibble. She is on a strict diet of Science Diet Premium Blend Kibble.

My vet said not to give her any wet food anymore, because it causes them to get blocked up and it was heavy in calories. Now I would thought the exact opposite, but he was adamant about us changing her food to the dry kibble.

I'm not sure, but the theory definitely makes sense.
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post #11 of 21
8/23/11 at 8:43pm
Thread Starter 
Just wanted to put a name on the faces

One on the left is Noo-Noo. And on the right is Zoe (ie Problem Child).

Thanks to all for help and advise. Today I installed the felliway in the "retraining room" we'll see how it works.

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post #12 of 21
8/23/11 at 11:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catcrazy101 View Post
Interesting you say the kibble. She is on a strict diet of Science Diet Premium Blend Kibble.

My vet said not to give her any wet food anymore, because it causes them to get blocked up and it was heavy in calories. Now I would thought the exact opposite, but he was adamant about us changing her food to the dry kibble.

I'm not sure, but the theory definitely makes sense.
Not to turn this into a debate about food or anything, but vets unfortunately don't get any formal training in nutrition, (except from, guess who? Hills, who Makes Science Diet) so if you want a professional opinion, you do have to visit a Feline Nutritionist.

Cats getting blocked from wet is a new one to me, but it being calorie dense is true, I suppose, but that just means you don't have to give as much, therefor you don't pay as much, so win-win, IMO.

P.s. don't tell Noo-Noo, but the problem children are always the cutest :P
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post #13 of 21
8/24/11 at 12:29am
those are absolutely gorgeous looking cats. What type of cat is Noo-Noo? calico? as for just dry food for cats, that sounds rather unusual unless cat has some sort of medical problem. You might want another vet's opinion.
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post #14 of 21
8/24/11 at 6:00am
I am not going to turn this into a nutrition debate other then to say NO ONE to the best of my knowledge is a licensed veterinarian on this board. So they are not giving a professional opinion, not that there is anything wrong with that. But you are getting everyone's opinion including mine, not any hard "facts" .

Now if you do not feel satisfied with your present veterinarian then by all means find another one you trust. But if you feel comfortable with this veterinarian I would not switch just because people on a forum tell you you to do so, again that is just my opinion.

Lastly your cats are great looking , feel free to post more photo's in the cat lounge area of the forum.
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post #15 of 21
8/24/11 at 6:42pm
Thread Starter 
Today, I've started introducing the 50-50 food idea. (it just sounds logical)

And I can tell you Zoe is one happy cat right now. Between the felliway and the wet food. She was purring away in the training room. She successfully used the litter box today, so she's out on "parole" right now. (I don't have the heart to lock her up all the time).

Zoe, is a grey & white. Noo-Noo is a calico (I think). Both were rescued from the Humane Society.

Thank you all for the advise.
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post #16 of 21
8/24/11 at 7:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auntie Crazy View Post
Are you feeding kibble or canned, Catcrazy? Kibble fed cat's are chronically dehydrated and that could explain why your kitty's poops are dry. And if it that's the case, it's likely causing her some discomfort when she poops, which would make her avoid the litter box since she would associate it with hurting. Getting her hydrated just might fix this problem for you, and the easiest way to do that is through a canned diet (and no more laxatives!). You could even mix a teaspoon or two into the water - just for a little while - to help hydrate her even more.

AC

For a Vet's view check out this website - here is one page on dry food issues:
http://catinfo.org/#Common_Feline_He..._Ties_to_Diet_
Quote:
... An increasing number of American Veterinary Medical Association members, including board-certified veterinary internists, are now strongly recommending the feeding of canned food instead of dry kibble. ...
The "laxing" can't be a healthy solution - hope you'll get success with a more moist food.

Oh, incase we're voting here - any vet that insists on kibble would not be my vet - so, I'd vote for a new vet.
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post #17 of 21
8/24/11 at 8:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GloriaJH View Post
...

Oh, incase we're voting here - any vet that insists on kibble would not be my vet - so, I'd vote for a new vet.
Seriously!

Good on you for adding the canned, Catcrazy!

Feline-Nutrition.org, CatInfo.org and LittleBigCat.com all have excellent articles and posts regarding the relationship between kibble and digestion. Here's a paragraph from the LittleBigCat site:

Long-term feeding of an all-dry-food diet is also suspected as a factor in CRF. Cats’ kidneys are highly efficient and adapted to life in the desert, where they would get most or all of their water from eating their prey. Cats eating dry cat food take in only half the water that cats on a canned or homemade diet get; this chronic dehydration can cause stress on the kidneys over time. Dry diets also predispose cats to lower urinary tract disease (FLUTD, LUTD, FUS, crystals, stones, cystitis) because they force such a high degree of urine concentration. Chronic or recurrent bladder disease may also be a factor in the development of CRF.

Cats get blocked on kibble and only very rarely on canned (I've never heard of a raw-fed cat getting blocked) so your vet is sadly misinformed.

I think, if I were you, I would probably just ease the kibble right out of your kitties' diet. They'll likely end up healthier for the lack of it.

Either way, I'd definitely add a little warm water to the canned you've begun to feed, at least for a little while. Since kitty is almost certainly dehydrated, and there's a good chance this is causing her current discomfort, adding the water will make her feel better quicker.

AC
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post #18 of 21
8/24/11 at 9:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat Person View Post
I am not going to turn this into a nutrition debate other then to say NO ONE to the best of my knowledge is a licensed veterinarian on this board. So they are not giving a professional opinion, not that there is anything wrong with that. But you are getting everyone's opinion including mine, not any hard "facts" .

Now if you do not feel satisfied with your present veterinarian then by all means find another one you trust. But if you feel comfortable with this veterinarian I would not switch just because people on a forum tell you you to do so, again that is just my opinion.
I was not suggesting that she leave her current vet, or that she should be dissatisfied with him, but simply presenting her with the Fact (http://rawfed.com/myths/vets.html) that currently veterinarians (DVMs) do not get any proper training in nutrition. And if she would like a professional opinion on the matter, I highly recommend she make an appointment with a Feline Nutritionist.
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post #19 of 21
8/25/11 at 6:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minka View Post
I was not suggesting that she leave her current vet, or that she should be dissatisfied with him, but simply presenting her with the Fact (http://rawfed.com/myths/vets.html) that currently veterinarians (DVMs) do not get any proper training in nutrition. And if she would like a professional opinion on the matter, I highly recommend she make an appointment with a Feline Nutritionist.
Hun, that post was not aimed at you. I am sorry if you felt that way . I just meant that this is just a forum and I feel the most qualified person to give facts not opinions is a vet . Or if there is an actual Feline nutritionist (meaning from college or other certification) then that would be another great source for sure to give "facts".

Hope that came out clearer.
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post #20 of 21
8/25/11 at 7:06am
What beautiful babies!!!

I hope the retraining works for Zoe!
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post #21 of 21
8/25/11 at 9:43am
Completely agree with those members recommending wet food.

Minka's correct about the Science Diet. Inferior food at a premium price. You can do better.

I suspect your vet is adamant about continuing to feed the dry because he is making $ selling it to you. And it's true that the majority of vets get no nutritional training other than the Science Diet rep's presentation to get them to carry the food. I'm amazed he'd tell you cats block on wet food!!!
As Auntie Crazy has said, your vet is definitely misinformed.

Glad to hear your girl is enjoying her canned food. It will improve her health and possibly help resolve the pooping problem.

Since "dry poop" is a possibility, try adding 1/4 - 1/2 teaspoon plain (no spices!) canned pumpkin to her canned food. The extra fiber may help get things moving. Most cats enjoy pumpkin. Or, you can use olive oil, 1/4 teaspoon. For either, mix into each meal for 1-2 days and you should see results .

I agree that adding extra litterboxes is very important. Hope all the suggestions you've gotten will soon make a difference.

Wonderful photo of Noo-Noo and Zoe! Both your girls are just beautiful! And THANK YOU for rescuing them and adopting from the humane society!
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