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Dry Food Myths Revealed! - Page 3  

post #61 of 79
8/21/11 at 4:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG View Post
Ultimately, dry or wet, the fact of the matter is that MOST cat food, dry or wet, crap, premium, or ultra premium, has lots of ingredients cats don't need in their diet and wouldn't naturally eat. Cats can't even turn the beta carotene in carrots into Vitamin A. Cats don't have the necessary enzymes to process 72% of the fat in flax seed (which is 42% fat).

So IMO (I realize, wrong forum here LOL), the debate shouldn't be about wet vs. dry at all, but about what the best ingredients in cat food are.

What I'm wondering is why there isn't a canned cat food with mice as the main ingredient. Obviously, this is because it isn't appealing to people... but at this point, we're all becoming so much more educated about our cats' food... at least there's rabbit on the market.
I agree that ingredients should be of primary concern to pet owners, and discussion/education of both what should and shouldn't be in the food - and why - along with the sleuthing needed to deduce actual contents from ingredients and analysis labels should be the topics of discussion. I look forward to the day the general public is so cognizant of the damage done to cats by kibble diets that we don't have to talk about it any more.

I know there are pet stores that have begun refusing to sell kibble (I'm working on a local store owner right now; meeting with him tomorrow). And it's for sure the pet food industry is sensitive to the public's increasing awareness of the needs of obligate carnivores - look at how many raw food products have cropped up since 2007, not to mention the proliferation of low- and grain-free products. There will come a tipping point when enough of the public refuses to buy kibble that it'll lose it's profitability. It's a long-shot, but I hope to see kibble dropped from manufacturing lines in my lifetime. Now THAT would be something to celebrate!!!

AC
post #62 of 79
8/21/11 at 4:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auntie Crazy View Post
There will come a tipping point when enough of the public refuses to buy kibble that it'll lose it's profitability. It's a long-shot, but I hope to see kibble dropped from manufacturing lines in my lifetime. Now THAT would be something to celebrate!!!

AC
You really believe shelters and rescues could afford a world where there's no kibble? I sure can't afford to feed the ferals canned food. Should I feed them 9 Lives canned food or 4Health dry food? I opted for the 4Health dry food. Of course, they can supplement with hunting and scavenging if they're not getting all they need from the diet.

I'd much rather see cats fed cheap crap food than nothing at all, and I'd rather see them fed dry food with decent ingredients than cheap crap wet food.
post #63 of 79
8/21/11 at 4:59pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auntie Crazy View Post
I look forward to the day the general public is so cognizant of the damage done to cats by kibble diets that we don't have to talk about it any more. It's a long-shot, but I hope to see kibble dropped from manufacturing lines in my lifetime. Now THAT would be something to celebrate!!!
The whole purpose of this thread is to bring an end to such huge false generalizations!

I look forward to the day that kibble-krusaders acknowledge that food processing techniques evolve with changing technology and markets, that there is a market of high-quality ingredient dry foods available today in mainstream stores like Petsmart/Petco, and would be hugely impressed if they spent even a tenth as much effort to shoot down horrible quality wet foods filled with corn, wheat, soy that often have "meat by-product" as the first protein source as they do ultra-premium excellent healthy dry foods like Wellness Core.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG
I'd much rather see cats fed cheap crap food than nothing at all, and I'd rather see them fed dry food with decent ingredients than cheap crap wet food.
post #64 of 79
8/21/11 at 5:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG View Post
You really believe shelters and rescues could afford a world where there's no kibble? I sure can't afford to feed the ferals canned food.

I'd much rather see cats fed cheap crap food than nothing at all.
Oh, the kibble would have to be replaced with something else at a similar value-point, I'm sure. As the PFI revamps their lines and begins including more and more raw (and they will), the cost of canned products will drop.

As long as it will take for kibble to become unprofitable, however, I would like to think the no-kill community movement will have reached saturation levels and the shelter / rescue scenario will be very different than it is today.

Whether I'm lucky enough to see this or not, I have no doubt it'll happen. There's been an amazing shift in the cat food discussions just in the last four years and as cats (and dogs) are brought ever more tightly into our "family" consciousness, their care will become ever more important and the general populace ever more knowledgeable. It almost can't NOT happen. Too many of us care too deeply about our pets, and that behavior pattern is only going to increase, you know?

AC
post #65 of 79
8/21/11 at 5:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auntie Crazy View Post
As long as it will take for kibble to become unprofitable, however, I would like to think the no-kill community movement will have reached saturation levels and the shelter / rescue scenario will be very different than it is today.
AC
I don't know what this means, but I'm pretty sure it'd take this thread off-topic.
post #66 of 79
8/21/11 at 5:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducman69 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auntie Crazy View Post
I look forward to the day the general public is so cognizant of the damage done to cats by kibble diets that we don't have to talk about it any more.

...It's a long-shot, but I hope to see kibble dropped from manufacturing lines in my lifetime. Now THAT would be something to celebrate!!!
The whole purpose of this thread is to bring an end to such huge false generalizations!

...
Except, of course, that it's not. *shrug*

AC
post #67 of 79
8/21/11 at 5:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auntie Crazy View Post
There's been an amazing shift in the cat food discussions just in the last four years and as cats (and dogs) are brought ever more tightly into our "family" consciousness, their care will become ever more important and the general populace ever more knowledgeable. It almost can't NOT happen. Too many of us care too deeply about our pets, and that behavior pattern is only going to increase, you know?

AC
Well.... And.... Deeply caring for our pets, and loving them like our family members, does not mean feeding them wet or raw exclusively. Or do you mean that that a person who feeds kibbles does not care for their pets as much as a person who feeds all wet or raw? My cats are my #1 priorities, my babies, my life. And yes - all of them eat kibbles and wet. One of them eats kibbles only... Sorry... kill me, but I tried everything. Some have prescription needs, and they get what they need. I work with my vet, I do what I can. They have the best care I can afford. Believe you me, they have better care than I do.
To put the importance of my cats to me, on the fact that I feed kibbles or not.... Hum.... no... I do not see that as a correct assessment IMHO.
post #68 of 79
8/21/11 at 5:16pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolina View Post
Believe you me, they have better care than I do.
To put the importance of my cats to me, on the fact that I feed kibbles or not.... Hum.... no... I do not see that as a correct assessment IMHO.
So true. I don't buy a new food for my cats without checking the nutrition information/ingredients. But for myself, sadly I just pick up boxes of stuff that looks yummy on the shelves at Krogers!
post #69 of 79
8/21/11 at 5:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG View Post
I don't know what this means, but I'm pretty sure it'd take this thread off-topic.
I was responding to the comment that shelters and rescues couldn't afford to function in a world without kibble. It's a bit Pollyanna to hope that the shelter/rescue landscape will be vastly improved in 40/50 years (my est. lifetime), but one can hope.

And, agreed, a conversation about shelters is a whole 'nuther thread.

Back on topic!

AC
post #70 of 79
8/21/11 at 5:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducman69 View Post
So true. I don't buy a new food for my cats without checking the nutrition information/ingredients. But for myself, sadly I just pick up boxes of stuff that looks yummy on the shelves at Krogers!
Isn't that the truth! A can of their food, and my goodness - do they go through it? Costs me $2.79!!! The ingredients are impeccable! Their kibbles are insanely expensive as well.....
My food.... the last time I checked the ingredients.... hum..... Lucky if I check the sodium content - and it passes if it is below 900mg
post #71 of 79
8/21/11 at 5:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolina View Post
Well.... And.... Deeply caring for our pets, and loving them like our family members, does not mean feeding them wet or raw exclusively. Or do you mean that that a person who feeds kibbles does not care for their pets as much as a person who feeds all wet or raw? My cats are my #1 priorities, my babies, my life. And yes - all of them eat kibbles and wet. One of them eats kibbles only... Sorry... kill me, but I tried everything. Some have prescription needs, and they get what they need. I work with my vet, I do what I can. They have the best care I can afford. Believe you me, they have better care than I do.
To put the importance of my cats to me, on the fact that I feed kibbles or not.... Hum.... no... I do not see that as a correct assessment IMHO.
Not at all, Carolina. There is no one on TCS, in my belief, that doesn't love and care deeply for their cats. We already consider them a part of our families.

I was talking about the change in how cats are treated by the general public. They are becoming, by and large, more and more a part of the family where once they were considered "just pets". That change is still in progress and is only growing broader and deeper. As it does, more and more people are going to be putting more care into the welfare of their pets.

In other words, more people are going to be making their cats care a priority, just as you and I already do.

AC
post #72 of 79
8/21/11 at 6:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auntie Crazy View Post
Not at all, Carolina. There is no one on TCS, in my belief, that doesn't love and care deeply for their cats. We already consider them a part of our families.

I was talking about the change in how cats are treated by the general public. They are becoming, by and large, more and more a part of the family where once they were considered "just pets". That change is still in progress and is only growing broader and deeper. As it does, more and more people are going to be putting more care into the welfare of their pets.

In other words, more people are going to be making their cats care a priority, just as you and I already do.

AC
And that's exactly my point Auntie... The way you put it, it makes sounds like this change is directly related feeding kibbles or not by the general public. That by making them and their care a priority, a kibble-free diet will prevail... From the public, and ultimately to the pet food industry.
Thing is, I do not believe those things are related, as I previously stated on my last post, you see?
post #73 of 79
8/21/11 at 6:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolina View Post
And that's exactly my point Auntie... The way you put it, it makes sounds like this change is directly related feeding kibbles or not by the general public. That by making them and their care a priority, a kibble-free diet will prevail... From the public, and ultimately to the pet food industry.
Thing is, I do not believe those things are related, as I previously stated on my last post, you see?
There are many people, like yourself, who will have done everything in their power to transition their cats to a healthier diet and will have been unsuccessful, and that's likely to be the case for many, many years. I'm not denying that, nor the struggle and effort put into the attempt. And maybe kibble will remain on the shelves forever, who knows.

But never think that consumers can't force change on the pet food industry. We already have. And increased knowledge very often does lead to a change in how we feed our cats. You've done it, I've done it (twice, actually), and so have many, many others. Not only are we spreading the word among ourselves, but today, there are organizations formed for the sole purpose of decimating this information for free, as far and as wide as possible. As this knowledge is absorbed, purchasing patterns will continue to change and the PFI will have to change to remain solvent. Maybe never as far as eliminating kibble, but, again, who knows. Maybe in a couple of decades it will.

With utmost respect.

AC
post #74 of 79
8/21/11 at 6:59pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auntie Crazy View Post
There are many people, like yourself, who will have done everything in their power to transition their cats to a healthier diet and will have been unsuccessful, and that's likely to be the case for many, many years. I'm not denying that, nor the struggle and effort put into the attempt. And maybe kibble will remain on the shelves forever, who knows.
Most people want the healthiest diet they can afford for their pets, the point is that many disagree that an equal cost poor quality wet food with junk-food ingredients is a better option than a healthy dry food with good ingredients. As shown earlier, due to an ability to buy dry in bulk 10-15lbs without concerns of waste, lighter shipping weight, and much more durable and cheaper packaging, the savings can be put towards whats actually IN the food.
post #75 of 79
8/21/11 at 8:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducman69 View Post
Not a single one of these 'premium' canned foods below is made of exclusively meat, and all have some vegetable matter in the recipe:
Said I was done, but I can't just let you state false information.
By Nature has NO vegetable matter and..

Quote:
You can look at the factual numbers posted, that shows that Wellness Core Dry or Nature's Variety Raw Instinct Dry in the two examples are both low-carb and are made with premium grain-free ingredients. Evo dry's first five (and thus primary) ingredients are "Turkey, Chicken Meal, Chicken, Herring Meal, Chicken Fat".
...the current amount of carbs in Wellness Core is 20.88% which is NOT low-carb and I used that calculator of yours as well as this website http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/choosi...-matter-basis/ to check that I AM correct.

Ugh.
post #76 of 79
8/21/11 at 8:57pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minka View Post
Said I was done, but I can't just let you state false information.
Some would say you are nit picking, singling out one of the cans which wouldn't make a point if it were true.... Buuut, you're also wrong, as last I checked, guar, cassia, carrageenan, and flaxseed weren't found in any animals... unless you pumped their tummies, lol!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minka View Post
...the current amount of carbs in Wellness Core is 20.88% which is NOT low-carb and I used that calculator of yours as well as this website to check that I AM correct.
If it were 20% which it is not, that is not that high, and I reminded you before that you have to include all ash and mineral contents like it says on the site or you're going to have inflated carb numbers. And you mean the website right here that clearly shows Wellness Core is 11% carbs by calories? http://binkyspage.tripod.com/dryfood.html
post #77 of 79
8/21/11 at 10:40pm
Thread Starter 
I'm the nitpicky one? You brought it up singling out the one can out of all of those when the point is that canned food generally has veggies in it just like dry, and were WRONG again to boot! I don't know why you insist on making things difficult on yourself, and frankly me as this is the umpteenth time I've had to correct you. I reminded you twice to add minerals and ash. I'm sorry to be harsh, but its getting tedious as ash should be between 5-8% (high protein grain-free tend to be on the high scale) and around 3-4% of other minerals like calcium/phos/mag/etc, so check your #s please. In fact, if you punch in 8% and 4% minerals you get... 11% carbs! Shocking. http://www.scheyderweb.com/cats/catfood.html
post #78 of 79
8/21/11 at 11:16pm
Ahem...moderators???
post #79 of 79
8/22/11 at 5:16am
I shall close this thread as it has gone completely off track and nothing informative or beneficial is being added.
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