I need help making a decision!

minka

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Originally Posted by superpop

Everytime the door to to porch is opened they all come running out and we have to keep track of them all while changing water, giving more dry food, giving more wet food, changing the DISGUSTING litterbox(We got them a REAL litterbox today at Walmart so it that should now be easier and less wasteful of litter and garbage bags) and then sweeping up the mess of litter everywhere and wiping up the pee/poop that is not in the litterbox while keeping track of them so they don't get into trouble is not fun at all.
Did you make sure to get a second litter box too? With so many kitties, one litter box is not enough, and you want to teach the kittens good habits, not bad. :p
Originally Posted by superpop

Out of the 5 kittens I know at least 2(possibly 3) are no longer in need of their mother and I think they are in fact screwing over the smallest 2 kittens(both solid black) because the other 3 eat solid foods and drink out of the water dish but when the tiniest 2 try to nurse the bigger 3 run all over the place and play and Lady PurrPurr becomes annoyed with being run over and then stops nursing.
I don't remember how old we/you had guessed the kittens, but even though the larger ones are bullies, they need to stay with mom until they are 10 weeks old. If you are worried about the 2 smallest kittens not getting enough milk, that is easily solved with KMR.

Originally Posted by KTLynn

I apologize in advance for what I'm about to say, Josh, because you sound stressed and I don't want to make your head explode. But here it is -
if Shirley is working a full time and a part time job, how is she going to take care of a very young kitten? As you're finding out, kittens are a handful, to put it mildly. They need supervision, they need hands-on care, and they need attention. Because he's the runt, he'll require even more attention than usual. Shirley, as wonderful as she is, will not be able to provide these things except on a very limited basis - too limited, frankly, to care properly for this little guy. She can't be in two places at once. It's not good for a little kitten to be left on his own for the majority of the day and into the evening. It's like leaving a two year old alone in an apartment to fend for himself. The kitten will be extremely lonely and is much more likely to get into trouble because he's on his own and has no other diversion or supervision.

A full-grown, mature cat is much more suited to Shirley's lifestyle than a small kitten. It's not that adult cats don't need attention and stimulation - they certainly do - but they don't have the energy level of kittens nor do they require as much supervision. An adult kitty will be far more self-sufficient than a kitten and able to tolerate longer periods of being alone.

I think you'd mentioned that a friend wanted to adopt Lady Purr Purr - is that still the case? If not, I would suggest that Shirley adopt her. I think both Shirley and Lady Purr Purr would be much happier in the long run.
^This
Originally Posted by superpop

She over turned the garbage can in the kitchen(even though she always has food out for her regardless if she is on the porch or in the house....she has her own litterbox in the house as well) She jumps up on the kitchen counter even though she KNOWS we don't want her to because now when we walk into the kitchen she IMMEDIATELY jumps down like she knows she was caught doing wrong. She snatched my bread loaf off the counter and tore into it under the dining room table the other day and did it again with a new loaf tonight even though she has her own food. I would just leave her in with them 24/7 but she scratches the door and is ruining the rubber thing on the outside that keeps it air tight.
Cats don't have the ability think forward in time or about 'consequences'. When PurrPurr is digging through the trash, she isn't thinking, 'oh, I'm gunna be in trouble when daddy finds out,' she's thinking 'ohh, there are delicious treats in here.' It is your responsibility to keep things put away so she doesn't get into them. Cats are like babies, they don't know any better.
 
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superpop

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Originally Posted by Minka

Did you make sure to get a second litter box too? With so many kitties, one litter box is not enough, and you want to teach the kittens good habits, not bad. :p
Through one of the feline rescue groups we not only got a much larger litterbox today but they gave us food for the kittens as well. (this will be all passed onto the next foster) We have spent probably close to $50 on these cats so far and we don't even want a cat! The money isn't even the biggest issue though....these cats are leaving us with zero free time and are eating into our time when we have other stuff to do(and are now forced to put it off)

Cats don't have the ability think forward in time or about 'consequences'. When PurrPurr is digging through the trash, she isn't thinking, 'oh, I'm gunna be in trouble when daddy finds out,' she's thinking 'ohh, there are delicious treats in here.' It is your responsibility to keep things put away so she doesn't get into them. Cats are like babies, they don't know any better.
Thats all good and fine but Lady PurrPurr does need to find a home eventually and I doubt such a family would want her pulling the stunts she does here! Today we implemented a spray bottle which seems to be the only way she "understands".

She is a nice cat....don't get me wrong but she has continued to pull stunts even though I know she knows we don't want her to. That is why we are now using the spray bottle because even though our "stern NO!'s" and snaps of the finger only work for each time she is being naughty the spray bottle seems to detour her from doing the exact same thing again.

She does need to be adopted out eventually and if the spray bottle is the only way she will learn then so be it!

She has dry food 24/7 and wet food to eat during the day.(and after she eats her fill the wet food goes back in the fridge so it doesn't spoil and then it gets offered to her again a few hours later!)

Between her and the kittens they are going through roughly 4 cans of catfood a day and a bunch of dry food as well....they are being well fed and always have dry food to eat! Lady PurrPurr is just being plain naughty because she wants "people food" and I'm sure she got food out of dumpsters for months but that is done now and she does need to be broken of those habits.
 

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Don't feel bad about not giving that little girl a kitten. If she were to have a kitten, with those parents of hers, she would most likely see the cat die or be lost; and that is very hard on a child--especially when the child knows it's their parents' fault that the cat was not well-treated. It's not just mourning a pet; it's seeing your parents break your trust. It really is better this way, trust me.
 
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superpop

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Originally Posted by Callista

Don't feel bad about not giving that little girl a kitten. If she were to have a kitten, with those parents of hers, she would most likely see the cat die or be lost; and that is very hard on a child--especially when the child knows it's their parents' fault that the cat was not well-treated. It's not just mourning a pet; it's seeing your parents break your trust. It really is better this way, trust me.
That ship has sailed. I don't feel bad for those kids anymore as we have explained the situation numerous times to them(and their grandfather did as well) and it just goes in one ear and out the other with them.

And yesterday's FAKE CRYING incident really sealed the deal with not feeling bad for them anymore. That was the worst fake crying I have ever seen in my entire life and I chuckled to myself as my boyfriend shut the door on her yesterday. Then 2 minutes later I looked out the window and she and her brother were wildly playing like they always do.
 

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Originally Posted by superpop

Thats all good and fine but Lady PurrPurr does need to find a home eventually and I doubt such a family would want her pulling the stunts she does here! Today we implemented a spray bottle which seems to be the only way she "understands".

She is a nice cat....don't get me wrong but she has continued to pull stunts even though I know she knows we don't want her to. That is why we are now using the spray bottle because even though our "stern NO!'s" and snaps of the finger only work for each time she is being naughty the spray bottle seems to detour her from doing the exact same thing again.

She does need to be adopted out eventually and if the spray bottle is the only way she will learn then so be it!
Do NOT use a squirt bottle!! All you are going to teach her is to be scared of people. You need to put things you don't want her to get into out of the way; don't punish her!

She has dry food 24/7 and wet food to eat during the day.(and after she eats her fill the wet food goes back in the fridge so it doesn't spoil and then it gets offered to her again a few hours later!)

Between her and the kittens they are going through roughly 4 cans of catfood a day and a bunch of dry food as well....they are being well fed and always have dry food to eat! Lady PurrPurr is just being plain naughty because she wants "people food" and I'm sure she got food out of dumpsters for months but that is done now and she does need to be broken of those habits.
She is nursing kittens, she needs LOTS of calories. I don't blame her for not wanting low protein dry food over scraps from the trash. She can be 'broken of those habits' later on when she doesn't need 3 times her normal amount of calories.
 

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Josh, anyone who wants a cat will know that anything they don't want the cat to get into has to be inaccessible.
Squirt bottles really aren't the way to go for a lot of reasons. Any way to keep that door closed so she can't get into the kitchen? Most cat owners have garbage cans with some kind of top or the food-garbage can is in the sink cupboard or something.
 

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Lady PurrPurr is only doing what she has been doing to survive, garbage picking. I would get one of those stainless steel garbage cans. The kind where you have to step on the floor pedal to open the top. It will take her some time to calm and settle into a home life. She need much patience. Plus, she is probably worried that the food supply will end sometime soon and her natural instinct tells her to keep eating while the eating is good. This is all new to her and she is still trying to protect and feed her kittens, it is her survival instinct. She doesn't know this is forever yet. We don't know her past and I can only imagine it has not been something she can count on or rely on for any length of time. Much luck with the kittens and Lady PurrPurr. Hoping they can all find good homes very soon
 
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superpop

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Lady PurrPurr has not been sprayed with the water bottle all day. She has been an angel all day long today. I am sorry I sprayed her but because I have had a friend who has a dog that bit everyone's hand(including mine) when the the door was opened to leave the house and it was the one thing that taught him not to. I only had to spray her twice yesterday and that was it.

Anyway this is now all a moot discussion because we found a foster home today and we will bringing them all to the foster family tomorrow.


The foster home is actually a horse rescue but they have fostered families of cats and dogs before. My boyfriend spoke to her on the phone tonight for almost an hour. The kitties will all be fixed and she is very strict about adoption.

They will have a 25 x 10 foot room for the cats which is much bigger than our porch and most importantly she has done this before so unlike us she knows what she is getting into with them and they will be better of with them then us anyway.

She was VERY angry about the mexican family after my boyfriend told her about them. She doesn't want us to give them her contact information but wants theirs and when the time rolls around for them to be adopted she is going to call them and tell them they are not a good fit and if they argue with her she is going to tell them off. She told us to tell them that the cats were seized by the animal police.

The problem is the kids and their mother came around tonight with the next door neighbor lady(her name is Storm...don't know if it's a nickname or her actual name but she is very nice) and and we told them we found a shelter for the cats and that there is no way they can have the kitten for at least 2 months and that they will have to contact the foster home.(this all happened before the phone call though) After the entire situation was explained Storm took a few steps back and vividly mouthed the words "THANK YOU" and made a thumbs up jesture and then excused herself.

As the situation was explained to the mexican family Mom the little boy kept screaming "KITTIES KITTIES KITTIES!!!" as he tried to open the locked screen door and the Mother didn't even try to stop him.(no discipline whatsoever!)

So now we have to lie and say the animal police took the cats(Storm will be told the truth though) she doesn't want them to have it either and those kids have been harassing her for months before the kitty situation and she deals with them because she is just a kind soul....and now they ring her bell everyday as well as ours about the cats.

I worry because Storm says a guy that lives there is a gangbanger(but also says he doesn't want the cat) She said(a few days ago) if he shows up demanding the kitten in question that we should just give it to him...

A large part of this has been a nightmare because of that family...most people who take in a family of stray nursing kittens and their mother probably don't have to deal with this complete and utter bullshit that we have to contend with from the mexiCANT(I didn't mean this as racist because I am part mexican but they CANT take care of a cat) family.

We now have to worry about our house being shot up or set on fire by gangbangers when we are out of town.


I now hate this family with every fiber of my being and we will be calling the city this winter to get their car towed when they don't move it even though they are legally supposed to.

We already have our next door neighbor watching out house when we are out of town(and we do the same for them) but we will have Storm do the same.

I am getting more and more fed up with this situation everyday and even though the the cats will have a new foster home as of tomorrow there is still going to be lasting bullshit we have to deal with.

I'm sorry but I HATE THE ENTIRE MEXICANT FAMILY....even the kids!!!!


I did get a bit of humor tonight over the mexiCANT family though because right after they walked away another neighbor spent literally 10 minutes explaining to the Mother that they need to keep their kids crap on their own property and then after the ten minutes the big toys on the sidewalk finally were moved.(IT WONT LAST THOGUGH!!)

I don't live in the nicest area but this block is very nice for the most part and I know we are not to only household who wants the pile of crap family gone!

-------------

I'm sorry I sprayed Lady PurrPurr with water. We do like her a lot in spite of all this stress and when I did it it was only with the intention of teaching her. We are being pressured from all sides around(From Shirley, To my boyfriend's cousin(who has 4 cats of her own), and now from the foster family taking all this on) to adopt Lady PurrPurr and we do kind of love her and now that we found a foster family for them it did kind of turn bittersweet tonight.

I don't think we will adopt her though(we now have 2 months to decide)

As attached as we have become to L.P.P. we are both more "dog" oriented. I want a pug and my boyfriend wants a husky and we will probably eventually settle and agree on a boxer because we both like boxers!

Before we get a dog though we want a fenced in backyard! We would of course walk the dog everyday regardless but I don't believe in putting a dog on a chain so it can poop/pee.

The one pet we own right now is a ball python and we love her. I know many people reading this probably gasp at the idea of owning a "snake" but we have had her since she was a baby and she is totally nice and has never bitten us ever.

Anyway we are both firm believers that if you buy a pet you need to TAKE CARE OF IT and that is why we are still holding off on a dog right now and it is also the reason we probably don't want Lady PurrPurr.

We love all animals(exception: me who is terrified of bugs and cries over house centipedes.....are they not the scariest things ever???? YUCK!!! bugs get killed here!!!!)

I have even considered applying to the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society(most notable for the TV show "Whale Wars" but they have many other campaigns as well) Cetaceans(whales/dolphins/porposes) have always had a special place in my heart since I was a child!


Regardless I don't think we will be adopting Lady PurrPurr in spite of our attachment. We are dog folk and will get a dog when the time is right.
 

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Naw, snakes are cool. I prefer furry warm-blooded types, but they're still good pets.

Nice thing about having cats: They will go after bugs. Practically every time I see a bug in my house, I notice it only because one or the other of the cats is tracking it down. Cats are very handy to have around that way. I guess yours is too busy with her kittens, but if you had cats and they had free time to hunt, they would more than likely go after those centipedes.

Try not to hate the kids, though. They can't help having horrid parents. I know plenty of people who grew up with absolute jerks for parents and learned how to be decent people regardless.
 

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Originally Posted by superpop

Anyway this is now all a moot discussion because we found a foster home today and we will bringing them all to the foster family tomorrow

The foster home is actually a horse rescue but they have fostered families of cats and dogs before. My boyfriend spoke to her on the phone tonight for almost an hour. The kitties will all be fixed and she is very strict about adoption.
You are very fortunate to have found someone to foster mom & kittens.
I'm very glad that she's strict about adopters - the cats' lives depend on it.


You're probably ahead of me on this, but it would be a nice gesture and much appreciated by the foster mom if you would make as generous a donation as possible toward the care of this feline family. You have an idea now of how much it costs just to keep mom and babies in food and litter for a short time. The foster home is taking on this responsibility indefinitely. As the kittens get older, expenses will increase for vaccinations and spaying/neutering and possibly other meds. Too many people just hand over cats to rescue groups or foster families, and run in the opposite direction. Please do what you can financially to get Lady Purr Purr and her kittens off to a good start in their foster home.



Originally Posted by superpop

We are being pressured from all sides around(From Shirley, To my boyfriend's cousin(who has 4 cats of her own), and now from the foster family taking all this on) to adopt Lady PurrPurr and we do kind of love her and now that we found a foster family for them it did kind of turn bittersweet tonight.

I don't think we will adopt her though(we now have 2 months to decide)
You shouldn't need to be pressured into adopting any animal. Either your heart is in it, or it's not. Every animal deserves a home where he or she is truly wanted.

It's ironic to me that Shirley is pressuring you to adopt Lady PurrPurr. I don't think you saw my earlier post (#67) where I mentioned that Mom cat would be better suited to Shirley's lifestyle than the tiniest kitten, since Shirley will not be home enough to properly care for that baby. A little kitten will be very lonely left by himself all day and will inevitably get into trouble. You might want to talk with Shirley about adopting Lady PurrPurr instead - it would be a much better fit for them both.

BTW, what is the status of the runt? I hope he is staying with mom when she goes to the foster home.


Originally Posted by superpop

As attached as we have become to L.P.P. we are both more "dog" oriented. I want a pug and my boyfriend wants a husky and we will probably eventually settle and agree on a boxer because we both like boxers!
I hope when the time comes that you're ready to get a dog you'll adopt a dog, rather than buy one. Sadly, there are rescue organizations for every breed of dog. Once you decide on the breed you want, do a search for that breed's rescue group. You can get the type of dog you want while also rescuing a dog in need of a forever home. A win for everyone.
 

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Great news and you are very fortunate to have found such a perfect situation for the kitties. The foster home sounds just fantastic. Thank goodness you were able to get the whole family together and now they will be able to find their forever homes and maybe a couple of the kittens will go to a new home together
! You did a great thing for Lady PurrPurr and her kits. Good luck to them on their next adventure
 
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Update:

I could have posted this update yesterday but it was a VERY LONG day. After we made the 45 minute drive there we stayed and chatted with her and her daughter for almost 2 hours as she showed us the property and all the horses, ponies, birds, etc. (and then we had a lot of stuff to catch up on after)

There is HORRIFIC things many of the animals there have been through....some she didn't want to even discuss some of the stories they were so bad.

THIS WOMAN(who is also a veterinarian) is AMAZING and I told her so more than a few times as she showed us around. She is also HILARIOUS!(and so is her daughter)

These cats are in a very good foster situation and normally she pays for the cost of getting them fixed out of her own pocket as well as other needed medical care and then passes the cost on as animals like cats and dogs are adopted out. (With the horses and ponies most of them do not get adopted out and stay with her and the sanctuary to live out their lives in peace)

Shirley will be getting the cat for free because She already agreed to get him neutered and pay for other medical costs before the cats were surrendered and was spoken for before before the surrender. We did have to sign a contract officially surrendering the cats but she said that is just standard procedure and that she thinks we are wonderful. Shirley will have to sign a contract as well when getting the kitten that she agrees to get it fixed and keep it indoors(and she does sometimes make house visits just to check-up)

She said it's just standard procedure and that this is a completely different situation than she is normally dealing with. When she rarely adopts out a horse they have to sign a 75 page contract! This lady rocks and knows what she is doing.

Anyway she invited us back up to hang out sometime(and help muck the horse stalls and then hang out!
)

We probably will visit sometime and will be making a donation when we do.

I wish she lived closer...I'd probably hang out for an hour or 2 a week and volunteer my time.

-------------------------

As for the Mexicans....

They didn't show up yesterday(they probably peeked on the porch when we were gone bringing the cats in though) and there was not a peep from them today either so we will see but now that the cats are no longer on our porch I think this situation could be completely done with.(HOPEFULLY)

Either way there is NO WAY they are getting the kitten they want but I don't want to have to deal with this family ever again.
 

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The contracts are standard, and a very good practice.
VERY indicative of someone who both cares and knows what they're doing.
She sounds amazing, and how completely wonderful of her to help out with Lady Purr Purr and her babies.
You got very, very lucky with this situation!!!!!!!!! All your hard work PAID OFF!!


I know you're feeling really relieved! This adventure is finally over.


You and your BF were just wonderful for saving these lives!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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superpop

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Originally Posted by LDG

I know you're feeling really relieved! This adventure is finally over.


You and your BF were just wonderful for saving these lives!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I feel relieved but it is "bittersweet"!


I miss Lady PurrPurr and the kitten we called "Tubby"! There are people out there who want them more than us though.

In the end we are "dog" people.

Happy to know these 6 cats will all be fixed and get wanted homes!
 

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Hehe, well, like it or not, you may be primarily dog people, but you're cat people too now. Once you've been adopted by a cat, you're marked for life!


I was very happy to see that the cats have found themselves a good foster situation. I know a woman like that myself--she's turned half her house into a no-kill, and has about three dogs and a couple of horses too. Takes half the day to take care of them all, but that's just who she is.
 
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Just wanted to post a quick update since it's been a long time.


Lady PurrPurr and all 5 of the kittens had worms and have been de-wormed.

They are all doing well.

They will probably get fixed soon and put up for adoption.(and there is already people interested in some of them)

Shirley still wants and will get the runt Ebony.(who has continued to do much better)

I know I said 4 of the 5 kittens were female but perhaps we didn't look close enough because 2 of them are males.


As for the Mexican family....not even a peep from them since the cats have been gone.(just like I originally suspected would happen....they don't care enough now that the kittens are actually gone)
 

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Aw, great news all around! Well - not about the worms - but that's normal in rescue kitties.


Great job!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

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You really came through for Lady PurrPurr and her kittens. You saved lives
. Wonderful news that they will be able to go up for adoption soon
. They all will have wonderful, happy lives because of you
 
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superpop

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my boyfriend and I are debating on adopting Lady PurrPurr.

He wants to even though I am the bigger animal lover of us both and I know I would be the one actually taking care of her...not him.

I do miss her and she is a sweet cat but I just know when she got settled in more "behaviors" would start like pawing at closed doors and trying to escape everytime the the front or back door is opened. She has spent a large portion of her life outdoors already and I'm sure she would want out all the time but I don't believe in letting pet cats outdoors(even if they are fixed) because they can get hit by cars and years ago I had to pick up my friend's dead cat with a bag on the street while she cried! (horrible memory!) I don't believe in letting pet cats outdoors and I know Lady PurrPurr would obviously always try to get out which brings about another reason I don't want her...

My boyfriend wants her but wants her de-clawed so she won't
up the furniture. That is all fine and dandy for a cat that has never been outside and would never be let outside but lady PurrPurr has likely spent half of her young life outside and I know she would always want back out and if she somehow managed to escape I would worry because she wouldn't have the claws to defend herself.

I'm not gonna lie....I like her and if we did adopt her we would make concessions so she could not dump the garbage or snatch my loafs of bread off the counter (no more "spray bottle"...and I'm sorry I did it in the first place) but....

I don't know if I am prepared to deal with a cat that will CONSTANTLY try to escape everytime we walk in or out of the house.

Anyway my boyfriend really does want her which is shocking to me because we have been together for almost 7 years now and I talked about getting a cat years ago but he didn't want one....

Now the situation is reversed somewhat but I know more about animals than he does and my main concern about Lady PurrPurr is that she is going to constantly try to get outside.


Thoughts?
 

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Awwwwwww......


I am so sorry to hear about that horrible, horrible experience. I am SO sorry.
Yeah, all our pet kitties are indoor only. It can be really difficult with the ferals. We find ourselves worrying endlessly when they don't show up. Life outside can be really cruel. And it's not considerate to the neighbors or the wildlife... I think there should be leash laws for cats, just like there are for dogs. Well, they have to be properly structured to account for people who care for community ferals. But that's a different issue.


But I have more bad news for you. Declawing is not like removing your fingernails (as if that weren't bad enough IMO). It's like removing your finger at the last joint. It has to do with the way their claws/toes are constructed. It's quite a cruel procedure. In fact, it's illegal in 23 countries, and several US cities. Scratching isn't something cats do to be destructive, it's a natural behavior related to many things... Stretching, grooming, marking... honestly, if you're not prepared to deal with it, it's best not to get a cat. Declawing also can come with other behavior problems, such as biting and litter box avoidance. Cats actually walk on their toes.
Cut off the end of their toes, and it displaced the weight improperly. Many wind up with arthritis when they're older. BTW, TCS is anti-declaw.

There are alternatives, like nail caps. But really, if you're not prepared to deal with a cat and work with kitty to manage their natural behavior as opposed to seeing it as "bad," it's best not to have a kitty become part of the family. I think you two should stick with the plan to get a dog! They're much easier to train to "our" concept of "good" because of that pack-animal nature. And they don't go vertical lol.

But the bottom line is that if your furniture comes first, don't adopt a cat. There are certainly ways to help them "scratch appropriately," and we can help with that. But please think long and hard about whether you really do want to make that life long commitment.

And I know, that's what you were asking! But there's a little more input for your consideration.
 
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