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my new cat....

post #1 of 23
8/9/11 at 8:45pm
Thread Starter 
OK...so I got a new calico at a no-kill shelter the other day. The papers that came in with her (she was owned) indicated that she is between 1-2. After having her for a few days, I am beginning to have my doubts. She is a very sweet kitty and seems very nice, but she is really rather inactive and just seems a bit too mellow for the age I was told. I know, however, that she is new and maybe just being very tentative.

We have a schnauzer who has not met the cat yet. We're following some guidelines that we found online - that says to have no face-to-face interaction with the dog for at least a week. The problem is that the dog is very territorial, is a barker, and always chased our other cat. The result was that our other cat spent alot of her time in the basement (pool-table cat) cause every time she came upstairs the dog just ran her down again. I'm afraid this will be the case again - especially if this cat is as low-keyed as she appears to be.

Any thoughts on whether a young cat should be acting this way? She has been spending most of the day in her crate (we have a crate for both animals due to internal motion sensors that are part of the alarm system), and then at night she is more active and comes out and has been exploring the basement. Also she really hasn't been eating very much - could this also be due to being new?

The shelter only had her for about 2 weeks, and so she's certainly gone through alot recently. Also she is front declawed. The word was that the owners moved and couldn't take her along to their new place. We'll probably introduce the cat to the dog sometime over the weekend. If it weren't for the dog, I believe this cat would have made herself at home upstairs already with no problem.

And, I just wonder if the people who owned the cat falsified her age? I've seen this done before with animal shelter cats. Is it possible that she is young and just is that mellow and laid back for her age?? Any suggestions for how to get a cat and dog to get along together?? Our dog is 9 and came after we already had our other (recently deceased) cat. I know that back then we didn't really do anything special as to trying to get them to meet each other. I seem to recall they pretty much wound up together from the first day, which was probably a mistake.


Thanks for any thoughts.....
Keith
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post #2 of 23
8/9/11 at 9:00pm
I would take her to the vet. She needs to be checked thoroughly anyway since she came from a shelter. They can usually tell approximate age based on the condition of her teeth. They can also do some blood work and such to see if there is anything else going on that is causing her to be lethargic. In all honesty, it is likely due to her own fear - especially if she stays in a door-opened crate all day of her own choosing. But since you have some concerns, and since she came from a shelter, taking her to the vet is best.
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post #3 of 23
8/10/11 at 5:09am
Monet is 2, and I had him since he was a kitten. He isn't very playful and on the mellow side. It could be your cat's personality. then again, she's still new to the house, she may need time to adjust more

as suggested, given she was a shelter cat, I would take her in for a vet checkup before introducing her to the dog and other animals.
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post #4 of 23
8/10/11 at 11:51am
I am suprised you crate the cat. Its not very healthy to do so. Does she have room to move around? use the litter box? Is the litter box only inches away from her water bowl? Yes, cats are in crates at the shelter but many of them get weird behavoir issues because of it and its is not a way to live long term. Perhaps this is the cause of the probelm? or at least not helping? I would also say that if your dog is not cat friendly rehome the cat before letting it live a life being either in a crate or in the basement....that is no life!
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post #5 of 23
8/10/11 at 3:22pm
Thread Starter 
Hi,

Thanks to all who responded. I am going to be taking the cat to the vet. I had planned to do so within the next few weeks definitely since the shelter was not sure what shots she has had.

fifi1puss....The crating actually works out pretty well. My other cat did it for 12 years and was fine. It's a really big (dog) crate - ample room to have her water bowl, food, and litter box. As I believe I explained, I do this so as to prevent the cat from having free run of the house when we are at work during the day. With the alarm system on - she'll set off the motion sensors if not confined. Same with the dog...who is in a much smaller crate. Of course, whenever either of us is at home, neither animal is crated.

I'm sorry that you are suggesting re-homing the cat just because our dog is one of those breeds who likes to chase cats. It never stopped our other cat from coming upstairs, it's just that she often didn't get to stay there very long. I'm sure this is not an unusual situation in other homes as well- where the family dog and cat don't always get along. We're hoping that by doing a gradual introduction to the dog, that it will work out ok.
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post #6 of 23
8/10/11 at 4:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fifi1puss View Post
I am suprised you crate the cat. Its not very healthy to do so. Does she have room to move around? use the litter box? Is the litter box only inches away from her water bowl? Yes, cats are in crates at the shelter but many of them get weird behavoir issues because of it and its is not a way to live long term. Perhaps this is the cause of the probelm? or at least not helping? I would also say that if your dog is not cat friendly rehome the cat before letting it live a life being either in a crate or in the basement....that is no life!
I am sorry, but I have to agree.... I do not understand the reasoning behind adopting a cat to live in a crate. IMHO (and this is my opinion only), if the cat will go to a home to live in a crate, might as well wait in the original crate at the shelter for a home where it will have the space to run free. IMHO you knew your setup before you took the kitty home.... That's downright depressing....
Sure, there is crating dogs.... Cats? not the same thing - might work for you, but not for them. My opinion.
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post #7 of 23
8/10/11 at 8:27pm
Thread Starter 
Carolina,

I disagree with your thoughts entirely. You are not seeing the whole picture. As I tried to explain, the only time the cat is crated is overnight and whenever there is nobody home. That's it. That's the only time, and it is because if ANY animal in the house was not in a confined space, it would set off the motion sensors, alert the monitoring center, and then the police. I don't understand why I am being made to feel like a bad person because of this. The cat has freedom to be in the rest of the house whenever she likes when she is not in the crate. Furthermore, I just retired from my job and so during the week the cat won't need to be in the crate even during the day anymore.

Does this make things better? I suggest you check back through my posts regarding my experiences with my last cat, Jasmine (hyperthyroid and CRF..crossed over the bridge 6 months ago), if you think that I am an uncaring pet owner.

For that matter, why would crating a dog be any worse? The cat's crate is 10 times larger than the dog's. My other cat knew it was her place...and would often go there of her own accord - especially if people came to the house (Jasmine was pretty skittish). She felt safe in there. Unless we were away, the door to the crate was kept unlocked...so she could go in and out as she pleased. I am sorry, but I am getting a little annoyed of being a bit harshly criticized here over this crating, and certainly take offense to my "set-up" as being compared to leaving the cat in the shelter! Every cat I've owned has been well taken care of, loved, brushed, played with, well fed, received regular check-ups and vaccinations at a well-respected animal hospital, given excellent care during vacations, etc.
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post #8 of 23
8/11/11 at 8:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by three4rd View Post
Carolina,

I disagree with your thoughts entirely. You are not seeing the whole picture. As I tried to explain, the only time the cat is crated is overnight and whenever there is nobody home. That's it. That's the only time, and it is because if ANY animal in the house was not in a confined space, it would set off the motion sensors, alert the monitoring center, and then the police. I don't understand why I am being made to feel like a bad person because of this. The cat has freedom to be in the rest of the house whenever she likes when she is not in the crate. Furthermore, I just retired from my job and so during the week the cat won't need to be in the crate even during the day anymore.
The above post completely contradicts the first one - you realize that, right? Look at a quote from your first post - you never said overnight, you said most of the days. now I hope that doesn't mean she is crated both most of the days and overnight too
Quote:
Any thoughts on whether a young cat should be acting this way? She has been spending most of the day in her crate (we have a crate for both animals due to internal motion sensors that are part of the alarm system), and then at night she is more active and comes out and has been exploring the basement. Also she really hasn't been eating very much - could this also be due to being new?

I am glad you are retiring so they can be free.
On the rest, we will have to agree to disagree - I will stand my position - instead of being in a home in a crate, a crate could get a home where it could run free. This is my opinion, and you are free to disagree with me.
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post #9 of 23
8/11/11 at 8:28am
I have two new abuse rescue cats. They are just about One year old. They are very, very docile, calm and quiet. So you really can't judge the cat's age just because it is mellow and inactive. Personality has an impact on this as well. I do think a vet check-up is in order as well which you are doing

She may also be very stressed out at the moment. A new place with a dog you say is territorial, a barker and chased your other cat. Believe me, this cat knows about this dog. The DOG is the one who is going to have to be trained not to even think of barking/chasing the cat. Very firm, sharp discipline needs to be applied immediately on this bad behavior. Don't you have a room the cat could call it's own instead of being in a crate? This is the best way for the cat. A room of her own where she can be loose, roam freely, have vertical spaces, and feel safe. Cats will not come out of their shell if they do not feel safe and secure. It may take her quite some time to adjust to her situation with the added stress of the dog. If it were me, I would put her in a separate room. I have two Jack Russell Terriers. They were NEVER allowed from day one to ever bark or chase one of my cats. Good luck and I hope she checks out good at the vet.
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post #10 of 23
8/11/11 at 1:59pm
Thread Starter 
Carolina,

I didn't contradict myself. In my first post I was simply saying that the cat - of its own volition - has decided to spend most of her days in the crate. The door has always been open - but she chose not to come out. The situation is improving. The cat has been exploring around. We will introduce her to the dog over the weekend.

Feralvr - Wow! I'm really impressed that you trained your dogs to the extent that they did not bother about the cat. I wish I could do that. My wife and I feel that the dog we have is not the smartest around, but we'll certainly try to teach her not to bark or chase the cat. It won't be easy. Thanks for the reply.
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post #11 of 23
8/11/11 at 3:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by three4rd View Post
Feralvr - Wow! I'm really impressed that you trained your dogs to the extent that they did not bother about the cat. I wish I could do that. My wife and I feel that the dog we have is not the smartest around, but we'll certainly try to teach her not to bark or chase the cat. It won't be easy. Thanks for the reply.
It would really help with this new cat if you could train your little Schnauzer. I have some experience in training dogs over the years and I know Schnauzer's can be very dominant. You have to take back that leadership role and you can do it. For this cat to really feel safe and work out in this home you need to re-train your dog. Schnauzer's are extremely intelligent and this can be done.

After the cat is totally comfortable in the home or in her new room and you decide to let her out into the house for the first time. Attach at least a six foot leash to the dog's "choke" chain. AS SOON AS THE DOG EVEN LOOKS AT THE CAT, give a correction immediately and harshly. NO!!! If the dog continues to go after the cat at that point, keep correcting over and over. You will also have to leave a "long-light line" on the dog at all times, at least in the beginning. If the dog starts to chase the cat, pick up the long line or step on the long-line and when the dog reaches the end of the line, flip the dog onto it's side. If you keep this up over and over, the dog will learn to respect you again as the alpha and do as it is told. The barking is the same thing. You can even get a barking collar. Or a zap collar and you control the remote by hand. If the dog chases or barks at the cat, immediately give it a zap. Believe me, the dog will quickly learn not to even look at the cat and associate the cat with the zapping's. You could also supply yourself with small beanbags and use the bean bags along with the collar corrections. Throw the bean bag hard at the dog's rear end and give a correction at the same time. I have had to only do this for one dog I have owned over the years. You have to be quick, as soon as the dog even LOOKS at the cat, correct immediately. Since this dog has gotten away with cat chasing before, then you have your work cut out for you. It can be done, easily, very easily.....

This will NOT interfere with them becoming friends down the road. But you have to take the upperhand with this dog NOW if you ever want to have a cat live peacefully in your home. Otherwise, I would not advise you having a cat.... I am sorry to say, it is just not fair to a cat to have to live in a basement or hiding in some room for fear of the dog. I wish you the best and do hope this new kitty can live happily in your home along side with the dog.
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post #12 of 23
8/11/11 at 6:12pm
I have to agree with Carolina and Fifi1puss. I don't understand why you would adopt a cat into a home with a dog that is cat aggressive. I'm surprised at the shelter for approving the adoption.

I'm not trying to make you angry, I just don't understand why you would do this. I DO understand the desire to live with cats, but...I don't understand putting a cat a risk like that, especially a cat who has no claws to defend herself.

Her inactivity may be because of pain. No one really knows if cats have pain in their feet all their lives because of this type of amputation. Not to mention back and leg pain. I know you did not do this to her, but I question the shelter allowing this adoption, a declawed cat in a home with a cat aggressive dog, it just doesn't sound like a good match.

I'm not sure I understand the crating issue either, but I know I don't like it. You seem to be saying two different things, but if she is crated over night every night and anytime there is no one home in the day time, and then she has to live in fear of the dog or banish herself to the basement the rest of the time.....poor little girl.
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post #13 of 23
8/11/11 at 7:25pm
Three4rd, you mentioned that your dog's crate is even smaller than your cat's. This poor guy is probably starving for mental stimulation, not to mention physical activity. When he finally gets out of his crate, chasing the cat is just the perfect release for his pent up energy. Of course I don't know how much you walk him, but dogs need a lot of exercise to be metally and physically healthy, which I'm sure you're aware of.

My best recommendation for a harmonious relationship would be to turn the motion sensors off, and letting the animals out of their crates. I have never seen a security system that doesn't allow for that. And since your dog is a barker (aren't all Schnauzers?) that should be plenty of deterrent. I know my dog scares the living daylight out of anybody even thinking of approaching my house, but he'd rather die than harm the cats.
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post #14 of 23
8/11/11 at 7:30pm
Didn't anyone read where he said he had recently retired, so the cat doesn't have to stay in the crate during the days now. I would just let the cat work out for itself when to come in and out of the crate. It takes them awhile to get used to new surroundings. Your cat probably feels safer in the crate. I think you might be able to break the dog from such aggressive behavior since you will be home more now. Good luck with your animals. I feel that the cat will get used to its living arrangement. While maybe not the best, it is not abusive to the cat. Having previously known you, and remembering Jasmine and how much you loved her, I think this little cat will live a blessed life and have a family who loved her very much. Good to see you back here. Please don't be a stranger.
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post #15 of 23
8/11/11 at 7:45pm
Retired does not mean housebound but I agree, that should make things much easier IF the dog can learn to live with his new 'friend'.

I would keep him on a leash in the beginning. At the very least it gives you something to grab onto if he chases after the cat.
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post #16 of 23
8/11/11 at 8:16pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks to all who replied. I truly appreciate the concern and suggestions.

MiLu...there are times when I turn off the motion sensors. But, after having been robbed (which is why we got the alarm in the first place) many years ago - which sometimes seems like yesterday, I do not feel very comfortable having them off if noone is at home. In retirement, I will be home much of the time (probably most); however, I will be spending some time outside doing work around the house. During those times, the alarm is not on and the cat has free rein of the house, as does the dog. While in the house, certainly the animals have freedom to do as they will.

Otto....not much discussion ensued at the shelter in reference to other animals. They knew we have a dog. The matter came up during our talks while there. I am sorry but I don't like the tone you're taking. It's very accusatory..like I have no right to own a cat simply because I also own a dog. This is not a fair assessment. You can't tell me that giving this cat a home is worse than leaving her in a no-kill, overcrowded shelter where she just might have had to spend her entire life with approximately 150 other cats who are all just roaming around together inside the building. You could hardly walk 3 steps without almost stepping on a cat. I refuse to believe we did the wrong thing. And, I refuse to believe that ours is the only home out there where there is a cat living in a home with a dog that chases her around and barks at it. I'm not defending this type of situation, nor making excuses for the dog, but I'll bet it's fairly common.

Feralvr....these are very helpful, excellent suggestions. We will really try hard and see if we can curb bad behavior in the schnauzer.

Blueyed...so good to hear from you. Your words comfort me greatly. I think that you alone here know the love I am capable of for these animals. It just hurts me that some here apparently feel I don't even deserve a cat, or that I am subjecting it to some kind of horrible and deprived life! However, that being said, I think that some 'tough love' is in order this time around with the dog. Who knows...different cat (with a much more mellow temperament, it would seem, than Jasmine), and the dog is also 8 years older than when she first came in contact with Jasmine.

Except that I did get some good suggestions, I'm not sure I really should have came back here to discuss all this. The memories of coming here to report so many heartbreaking thoughts and worries about Jasmine are still very close to the surface, and alot of it all comes back in posting again. But, I was excited to report that I have, after 6 months, adapted another feline companion. That excitement, in part at least, just turned into feelings of guilt and depression based on some of what I was told here. All it did is get me upset and even a bit angry. I'm sensing there is a general hostility out there regarding dogs in general, which, I suppose, is understandable on a cat forum. A general feeling I get is......here's a dog owner who also wants to have a cat in the house and probably won't take good care of it....I think it probably best that I not come back to provide updates, especially in the event that there is little improvement in the dog's behavior around the new cat. I do not want to get anyone else further upset with me or to continue to think ill of how I work with my animals. I learned that there are bad feelings out there about the apparent suitability of my home for having a cat - the alarm, the motion sensors, the crate, the dog, my having adopted a cat.....I'm sorry but I don't need the bad karma that is coming through in some of the posts. I truly wish I had never mentioned most of it. And yet, I appreciate the honesty and candidness that has been shown. Again, feral...I really appreciate the time you took to offer help with the schnauzer. We have been discussing really trying to work with her and change some of how she acts.

Best to all,
Keith
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post #17 of 23
8/12/11 at 6:28am
Please don't be a stranger. I have missed your posts. I know you are still hurting from the loss of Jasmine. This little calico will be a blessed cat to have a family like yours to love her. Everyone who has cats cannot provide a home where they can run freely inside. I don't. My cats live outside in a fenced in area because of my husbands allergies. They stay in our air conditioned/heated garage when we are not home and at night because of the danger of wildlife. Even though some of us have to make living adjustments for our cats, it does not change our hearts and the love we are capable of giving our cats. As for the dog, I think since you are starting over with this cat, and it is new to the dog, you should be able to teach the dog some behavior adjustments. It is easier to teach a dog because a cat won't learn anything it doesn't want to learn. Posters, join me please in welcoming this still hurting person back to the Cat Site.
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post #18 of 23
8/12/11 at 10:44am
I lost my cat a year ago and I can wholeheartedly understand your pain

I think pretty much any place with a loving home is better than a shelter! ... and I'm concerned with hostility in here towards OP.

OP loves animals, and there's nothing wrong with having a dog and a cat together. Lots of owners crate their pets for all kinds of reasons, but as long as they are healthy and happy, and get enough stimulation and love, they will live a long and happy life.

My cat Marsh, the one who passed away, was always very calm and relaxed, pretty much since he was about 2 years old. My 2 new siblings who are still 9 months are balls of energy still, but mellowing out. I'd say from what you're describing the cat is definitely passed 2 years, but a vet check/teeth check will give you a better clue.

Good luck!
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post #19 of 23
8/12/11 at 11:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueyedgirl5946 View Post
Please don't be a stranger. I have missed your posts. I know you are still hurting from the loss of Jasmine. This little calico will be a blessed cat to have a family like yours to love her. Everyone who has cats cannot provide a home where they can run freely inside. I don't. My cats live outside in a fenced in area because of my husbands allergies. They stay in our air conditioned/heated garage when we are not home and at night because of the danger of wildlife. Even though some of us have to make living adjustments for our cats, it does not change our hearts and the love we are capable of giving our cats. As for the dog, I think since you are starting over with this cat, and it is new to the dog, you should be able to teach the dog some behavior adjustments. It is easier to teach a dog because a cat won't learn anything it doesn't want to learn. Posters, join me please in welcoming this still hurting person back to the Cat Site.

Keith, I do remember you and Jasmine.......
Unfortunately, sometime other's are so strong in their opinions they can come across as judgmental and harsh. I for one am sorry if I or anyone did this to you. We need to try to put our feelings out there in a kind and accepted way. I am glad you are back and have adopted this kitty. I do not believe a crate as an initial adjustment period is cruel and if you didn't have another room for her, then the crate is just fine. I have used crates before too, with feral rescues and strays. Much better in a crate in a home than in a crate at a shelter, IMHO. I do think you can work out these issues with your dog. Not once in your posts did you ever call your dog "cat aggressive" so don't worry about anything. Your dog can be trained to accept and "play" nice with this new cat. You have to just try to bypass some posts that have offended you and take them with a "grain of salt" or a "shot of whiskey" (just kidding )..... Hope you stick around and I have thought of you and Jasmine too
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post #20 of 23
8/12/11 at 11:59am
Thread Starter 
Feral....thanks for your kind words. I will not let any of the negative thoughts here bother me. It's just that many here have very strong feelings about taking care of animals and how it should be done. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I must keep that in mind. I'll let everyone know how things get on. Jasmine was our very first cat together as a family, and so that's what makes it so tough to move beyond. I see the new cat and I think of Jasmine. All my daughter's school career took place with Jasmine as part of our family. I will do my best with this new calico girl..and my best to have things go smoothly with the dog. Everyone here has my promise on it. In all honesty, I know I've been a bit lax in trying to have the dog's behavior be the best that it can be in general - not just with the cat.

Best,
Keith
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post #21 of 23
8/12/11 at 2:51pm
Several years ago, we got Nadette from a shelter, and she was supposedly 1 1/2 years old. And she did absolutely NOTHING for three weeks, LOL! I actually called her foster home and asked and they said, no, she was normally active. So I figured out what it might have been is that she had just had her shots, and I think they really just kind of made her tired or something...

So if new calico kitty had her shots that might be something to think about. Also she might be a little depressed about losing her former family. I'm sure she will get used to you soon. Do you have any pictures? We LOVE pictures LOL
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post #22 of 23
8/13/11 at 3:55pm
Just wanted to encourage you that we had a dog aggressive cat and made it work for years. She was a Springer Spaniel and large enough to kill one of the cats if she tried. She was actually an aggressive dog towards everything: other dogs, people, and worst of all children. I do not like that in an animal but she was my husband's dog so I had to figure out a way to make it work and that's exactly what I did.

The dog was never allowed to be with the cats when we weren't present. We'd shut the cats in the back half of the house when we were gone so we had peace of mind. When she was allowed to be out with them, she was never allowed to go after them. If she even looked at them with a look of interested, she was corrected. She eventually learned that if the cats got into a scuffle (when she normally would hop up and join in) she would just lay down where she was at. After a time, she got very good with them. Hemmy likes to pick and if he was laying on the couch when the dog walked by he'd give her a playful swat. She wouldn't even pay attention to him. However, because of her aggression and size, I never fully trusted her to have free run around them.

What you have to do is immediately stop the dog every single time he barks at your cat. Then, you need to shift his focus to something else. Soon, he'll learn to ignore the cat. You just have to be super consistent or it won't work. With retirement at hand, you'll have extra time! Congratulations on it and on your new kitty.
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post #23 of 23
8/16/11 at 12:07am
It is tough to hear about animals being crated but I understand your concerns. Out of curiosity, aren't your windows and doors secured with alarm system as well? the motion sensors are really considered backups in the event burglars somehow find a way through your secured windows and doors. I also place security decals visible on the outside as well to show my premises is secured and hopefully act as a deterrent against crime doers. Have you considered having an enclosed room that is outside of the indoor sensor coverage for the kitty or dog to roam around when you are not home? Still, only you can live the way you feel secure so I can understand that.

I also had a calico that was very docile, about 3 years old at the time - but she was sick so we knew she had to rest a lot. Eventually she did go to kitty heaven. She was one of a kind kitty, so loving till the very end.
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