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Problems with newly rescued Stray (sorry, long)

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 
Recently, a little stray took up residence under our neighbor's shed. She is not a cat person, plus she is selling her house and will be moving soon. She did feel sorry for him and started feeding him.

We contacted a local TNR org for her, but she had to go out of town for 2 weeks and asked us to take care of it. So we caught kitty and took him to the TNR vet. He is between a year and 2 old, quite small, was not neutered. He tested negative for diseases, but had a bad ear infection due to ear mites. After the neuter, we took him home and he's been with us ever since, for a little over 2 weeks.

Which brings me to the first problem: He is integrating well with most of our cats, except for one. This one is a stray who adopted us 4 years ago, and quite dominant. He hates the newcomer and we had a fight on our hands the first time they inadvertently met (our dominant slipped onto the porch where newcomer stayed for the first few days).

The fight was quite ugly, with lots of yowling, hissing, posturing and wrestling. I was finally able to separate them with a broom. Since then, we have been extremely careful to keep them separated, but we have put little newcomer in a cat kennel in the living room for an hour or so every day, so our dominant one and he can see each other and get used to each other without a physical altercation.

Initially, there was lots of hissing and growling, now they hiss a little, look at each other for a while, and then dominant one will walk off and take a nap. It does not seem to have improved beyond that. From what I've been told, newcomer has fear aggression, and dominant one has territorial aggression.

Also, little newcomer has free run of the house at night as he gets along with the other cats and dominant one sleeps in the bedroom with us. In the morning, I put newcomer in my office before dominant one leaves the bedroom.

As soon as dominant one comes out, he sniffs all over the place and hisses when he scents newcomer. Is there any chance they will eventually both calm down and at least get to ignoring each other? And at what point should they be introduced?

And now, the second problem:

When newcomer does not want to picked up, he tries to bite. He mostly does this to my husband. He will first complain by meowing quietly, and then rear around and try to bite. He got hold of my husband's arm once already, but just scraped with his tooth, he did not bite down hard.

However, this is not acceptable behavior at all. Hubby has been dealing with it by firmly telling him NO and then putting him back down, but as that is what he wants anyway, I am afraid it's reenforcing the "if I don't want to be picked up, I'll bite and then I'll be put back down" behavior. Since we haven't ever run into this before, I'd much appreciate any advice.
post #2 of 15
I have two cats that can not see each other. The dominant one will viscously attack the old one. The dominant one is 6 years old (Simon) and was 4 when we brought the now 20 year old cat Bogey into our home. At first we tried to let them work it out but the dominant one realized he could take the older one and it was ON. Anytime he saw Bogey he would jump him, screaming, biting, kicking, pulling out hair. We finally just put a stop to it by keeping them separated at all times. It's a pain in the ass. We've been doing it for two years now and will continue to do so as long as Bogey is alive.

If you don't want to keep them separated, I would rehome the stray if they are unable to maintain a peace. Two dominant cats can be dangerous. And putting one in a carrier where the other can freely walk up and see/smell with the one in the carrier unable to flee might not be helping. If you are going to do this, I would suggest putting one in a room, stacking baby gates in the opening and allowing them supervised time like that. That way, the one in the room has more space and ability to flee from the door if it becomes too much for it. But be there while you are doing this. We tried it with our two and Simon figured out how to climb the gates and slink through the opening. Fortunately I was there so crisis was adverted.

As for the biting. Pretty simple solution....don't pick the cat up. Some cats don't want to be held. Bites on the hand are extremely dangerous, I've had two and one landed me in the hospital for 6 days after emergency surgery. The cat is biting out of fear and that can't be 'taught' out of it.

Just slow down with this kitty. Some take a while to integrate. Some never integrate. But personLly, I think you are pushing him a little too much. Be patient with him.
post #3 of 15
Thread Starter 
Hi, thanks for the reply.

Actually, it's not a cat carrier, it's a large kennel. Large enough to keep a litterbox and food/water in, as well as move around. I draped a beach towel over half of it, so newcomer can retreat. The kennel was suggested on another website to help get cats used to each other by protected exposure.

We would re-home the little stray if we could only find a good home for him. Our area is overrun, stray dogs, stray cats, Humane Society and other rescue orgs filled beyond capacity, and not nearly enough potential homes. The one prospect we had did not work out. We will keep them separated if necessary, but it would be much preferable for them to at least learn to tolerate each other.

As for his biting problem, it is definitely not that he does not like to be held. He is very affectionate and jumps on both of our laps constantly when called or when he wants to. He is definitely a cuddly cat. And he does not try to bite me when I pick him up, just my husband. And not each time either. No obvious reason either, my husband is very gentle with our cats. It just does not sound like acceptable behavior to me, I don't know anyone whose cat(s) bite(s) when picked up.
post #4 of 15
I'm not saying your DH isn't gentle, what I'm saying is the cat doesn't want to be picked up....that is completely different then getting in your lap or seeking pets. Cats are not like dogs, IME. I can't just decide I don't want a certain behavior and train it out of them. Especially biting. It's what cats do. It is most certainly not an acceptable behavior but one that is easy to avoid....don't pick him up. If he comes to you wanting pets, then great, pet him, cuddle him, whatever, just don't pick him up.

I've met lots of cats that don't like to be picked up. Some do bite, it's their way of telling you to cut it out. Our semi-feral Claire HATES to be picked up. She's 4 years old, I've had her since she was 7 weeks, I've picked her up exactly twice and learned pretty quick that wasn't an option. So, we don't pick her up. It hasn't impacted our lives one way or the other. and she still gets tons of love, or as much as she allows.
post #5 of 15
Thread Starter 
I completely disagree that biting is "what cats do". None of our cats have ever tried to bite us, and none of any of my friend's cats bite, either.

Obviously, since he does not try to bite me when I pick him up, he does not necessarily mind being picked up. And obviously, since cats are quite smart, he should be able to learn this is not acceptable behavior.

Hopefully, someone whose cat has overcome this problem behavior will comment with whatever solution they have found.
post #6 of 15
I am a kind-of new cat owner and we adopted our 1st last Nov and the 2nd one, Hobbes, this past February. Hobbes nips - used to be more earlier but lesser now. He seems to understand "ouch" and "no" and usually starts licking where he nips. He does not break skin but it's sharp. He is very cuddly but on his own terms- he's come to us and snuggle and will want cuddles. Earlier on he would nip everytime you picked him - now he will once he's had enough of being held and we put him down. We just do not pick him much since we know he does not enjoy it much. However, he's just so cute that sometimes we do pick him up and give him some kisses but I hold him in a way what he's facing me and does not get access to my hand. But even then I do not hold him for too long since I know he does not like it much.

I am not sure that I agree with you that cats do not bite - you just may have been lucky that way. In many of our the shelters/ rescues in my area and from where we got Calvin and Hobbes, they do get kitties that nip and they are not adopted out to families with children. Also, for Hobbes, we feel that this is due to poor socialization after being born. Maybe because your's is a stray, it has not learnt that biting is a no- no. With Hobbes, time (it took some time for him to be comfy with us - he would come for cuddles but was skittish in other ways) and the fact that we quickly withdrew our hands and said "Ouch! Hobbsie, NOooo" helped.
post #7 of 15
Kittens during teething can certainly learn that people are not play things and you don't bite people. But you can't teach a cat not to say "no" by biting. That's one of they ways they communicate. If it's biting during play, it can be redirected, and they can learn that way. But if it's due to redirected aggression (seeing another cat or something) or overstimulation, the only way to stop the behavior is to stop the source of the problem - and that is not that the cat bites, but it's the being overstimulated, or the seeing something that's making them redirect aggression.

I'm sorry it seems unpredictable - but there's something causing it given it doesn't happen every time. Does it happen when he picks her up? When he goes to pick her up? Or once he's been holding her for a little while?

You might want to spend some time learning about cat communication in relation to their behavior - body posture, tail movement, position &etc. Perhaps that will help DH learn when he can pick up kitty without getting bitten. http://cats.about.com/od/amyshojai/t...t-language.htm
post #8 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG View Post
Kittens during teething can certainly learn that people are not play things and you don't bite people. But you can't teach a cat not to say "no" by biting. That's one of they ways they communicate. If it's biting during play, it can be redirected, and they can learn that way. But if it's due to redirected aggression (seeing another cat or something) or overstimulation, the only way to stop the behavior is to stop the source of the problem - and that is not that the cat bites, but it's the being overstimulated, or the seeing something that's making them redirect aggression.

I'm sorry it seems unpredictable - but there's something causing it given it doesn't happen every time. Does it happen when he picks her up? When he goes to pick her up? Or once he's been holding her for a little while?

You might want to spend some time learning about cat communication in relation to their behavior - body posture, tail movement, position &etc.
Perhaps that will help DH learn when he can pick up kitty without getting bitten. http://cats.about.com/od/amyshojai/t...t-language.htm
Laurie, not to hijack the OPs thread but this may be a learning point for me, too. Hobbes, as you know, did not come to us from an ideal situation and, he is a biter. When he shows love and gives us headbutts he will sometime nip our nose or chin and then lick. We see him do the same to Calvin actually. As have written above, he also bites when he wants to be put down. When he 1st came he would not let us pick him AT ALL but slowly with time we can pick him and hold him for longer and longer but then he'll bite to be let go. But he bites a lot less now. In situations like this, where it's not the hyperstimulation biting that Calvin does but rather a "head-bop- love -you nip" or a " enough already" nip. Any ideas to remedy that? To be honest, it does not hurt much and neither are we too concerned since we blame it on poor upbringing but a solution may be nice.
post #9 of 15
You may find these articles interesting and helpful.

Cats' aggression toward people The biting is on page two, but figured I'd link to the beginning of the article.

By Amy Shojai at about.com: Cat aggression: Stop cat bites

Note the introduction: "Cat bites are a normal part of having a kitty, because cats mouth and paw objects to explore their world. You can't stop it. But kitties can learn to inhibit the force of the bite and to use soft paws without claws. She won't know that teeth and claws hurt, unless you explain to her in kitty language the way Mom-cat would. She can still play-smack you with a soft paw, and enjoy a kitty-correct game without drawing blood.

Kittens develop good manners through interaction with other kittens and their mother, because other cats won't put up with being hurt. Too often, though kittens go to new homes before they've learned these important lessons and you need to teach them. Begin training as soon as you get your kitten or cat. A well-socialized adult cat teaches the best lessons to kittens, but you can help, with these tips."

Your problem with Hobbes, as you suspect, is likely the same problem txcats is having with their recently adopted stray: the kitties were not properly socialized as kittens.

Finally, another article by Amy Shojai: How cats love: 14 ways cats show affection. #14 includes nibbling.

Ming Loy nibbles at us. I've never tried to correct the behavior. Tuxie gives us "love bites," and we've never tried to correct the behavior. Ming Loy can hurt, but she never breaks skin, and Tuxie uses no force.
post #10 of 15
Also found this article on reducing petting aggression (which I believe may be part of the issue when kitty bites when DH picks up kitty) : http://cats.about.com/od/againstpeop...aggression.htm
post #11 of 15
Thanks so much for the links, Laurie.
After reading the posts, I do not think it is misdirected aggression or overstimulation in case of Hobbes but rather not being disciplined properly when younger. Since he is not breaking skin and we know how to avoid getting hurt, I am not sure if it requires any aggressive corrective measures and since it has decreased a lot, I think there has been some progress with the "ouch, no" and my hissing (I do such a bad job at it).
post #12 of 15
One thing that hasn't been mentioned here, is that of course you have no idea how the kitty was treated in the past, and it's possible he just has a fear of men.

Now, I, myself, have 2 former ferals. One gets overstimulated petting and will bite, not hard of course, so I just have to watch for her pupils dilating and i know when to quit LOL. My other one hates to be picked up. He's mostly a wiggler and scratcher, but he's a huge chunk of a cat, so I don't think he's real comfortable hanging in the air Haha!
post #13 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by kluchetta View Post
One thing that hasn't been mentioned here, is that of course you have no idea how the kitty was treated in the past, and it's possible he just has a fear of men.
I completely agree. The foster mom had told us that Hobbes was abused when mentioning his broken tail and he is mortally scared of shoes. His issues of not wanting to be held may definitely be a "baggage" from his past.
post #14 of 15
Thread Starter 
Thanks so much for all of the links!!

Kluchetta, that is what we discussed last night, that maybe he was mistreated by a male before. He is very loving toward my husband, but he definitely prefers me. I get most of the kisses and attention.

Re. biting being normal, I guess I should have made a distinction between biting and nipping. The nipping (love bites), we are both used to. Several of ours do that, and have for years.

What I was referring to, and what we have never experienced before, is what I described in the original post, the aggressive "I am gonna bite if you pick me up". That, I don't consider normal because we've had quite a few cats over the past 20 plus years, and have never been subjected to any aggression. Could well be that, like some of you guys mentioned above, he just did not have sufficient training or socialization.

One thing that occurred to me, I don't ever pick him up out of the blue, I talk to him and coo over him prior to picking him up, which hub does not do. So he did that today, and no bitey behavior, so far. Also, he does seem shy of men, we had a male visitor for lunch today, and he went into hiding, while he will stick around when a female visits.

By the way, here's pic of the little stinker so you all know whom we're discussing.

post #15 of 15
Aw, he's beautiful and looks soooooo happy!

Cats do have long memories. Our Spooky was terrified of coats and blankets for the first... four years? Obviously she was traumatized by people tossing stuff over her to catch her or something.

Hopefully just the warning before picking him up will do the trick, and hope the links were helpful.

But as to the biting to say "no," it is a behavior you can work on, but it is normal for cats to use their mouths to say "no." Our kitties always used their paws, and just placed them on our hands to say "enough." But they had the time with mum and siblings to learn kitty manners.
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