Indoor v.s. Indoor/Outdoor Domestic Cats

Do you believe that small dogs should be let outside off leash? Do you feel its ok for your cat to jump on your neighbor's car (mine Impala is scratched btw, likely because she slipped jumping up to lay on my hood as she always did until she got tired of me running her off and while no damage has ever come to the Vette it is annoying to have muddy paw prints all over it after I spent the whole last night waxing it) and poop in your neighbor's flower bed, but not ok for a small dog to run around your yard and poop in your plants? What about little pot bellied pigs, should they be allowed to run around on your property, or should the guardian be responsible for their pet's actions just like every other domesticated animal?

What do you say to wildlife conservationists that point out that cats are not native to the North American ecosystem and are one of the top five contributing causes of the decline of endangered song birds per the official government Fish and Wildlife site? Do you agree that introduced cats for example have proven a blight on native flora and fauna in Australia, although not as bad as the rabbits that have turned vast stretches of previously fertile land into desert.

In other words, even if you remove all concern over risks to the cat, how do you deal with the fact that the environment and ecosystem is shared by all, and disregard respect for other people's private property?

I think the only way a kitty should be outside is if the kitty is on a leash as well as dogs.

I don't really know any area where a cat is safe from wildlife... I live in Chicago, the 3rd largest city in the US and we have coyotes, raccoons, foxes, hawks, possums, skunks, etc... I have seen news reports of small dogs who were attacked and even carried off by hawks, dogs and cats attacked/killed by coyotes-- one dog was even attacked by a coyote while walking on leash and that was only a mile or two from my house. Besides that we have the dangers of cars, feral cats, diseases, poisons (the city puts them out for rats), dogs and not to mention humans who hate cats.
As far as vaccinations, they are not 100% effective so a cat could still catch a disease. Where I live there are a lot of ferals unfortunately. A friend of mine had one of her indoor cats escape, she eventually did find him, but he'd contracted feline leukemia.

Currently I live on the third floor of a condo building so it's a moot point now. However, when I lived in a house, my husband felt that Bijou should be allowed outside and let him out against my wishes. Our street backed onto a farmer's field where most cats that were outdoor cats were pretty much coyote food. Bijou got into fights twice in 2 years and needed surgery that was over $600 each time. He got frightened of something one time and ended up in a neighbour's yard for 4 days before their dog outed the cat and they called us because they saw the flyers we had put up.

So, do I think cats should be allowed outside - no, absolutely not, under no circumstances will I let a cat go outside unless they are on a harness and leash or an enclosed cat run is built for them. I certainly understand that barn cats are a different issue and that they are born and raised to catch mice and I don't actually consider them to be pets. They are working cats and the rules are different.

And, yes, Bijou and Mika are both harness and leash trained and we took them for walks around our neighbourhood. Granted they liked to go up to bushes and check them out so it wasn't like walking a dog, but they did walk on the leash.

I honestly love my cat way too much to risk his life outdoors. I want him to live to be a ripe old age, pampered, well fed and loved greatly. He certainly seems to be very happy inside and I'm certainly less stressed than when my hubbie used to let him out and I had no idea where he was or if he was safe from the coyotes. I've looked out our bedroom window and seen a coyote walking down the middle of our street. Scary!

Thank you, this is to the T how I feel - I love my babies WAY too much to let them go out and run the risks I know too well are out there.
I live in a relatively quiet neighborhood of Dallas, in the city, about 3 FWY exits from Downtown. Nonetheless, coyotes are known to run around the area. Although the streets are quiet, there are still cars driving around, and my babies are still cats - I will never be able to teach them to look to each side of the road and waiting before crossing. This is a safe neighborhood, but it is out of my control who comes and goes. There ARE mean people in the World, and I do not want want them to cross my babies' path. There are also feral cats who could get into fights with them and transmit diseases - nope, thank you. And I do not want them to run the risk of being bitten by dogs either.
I have four cats - out of the four, only Lucky, for maybe 10 seconds a day, asks me to go out... And that is just when I am coming in or going out. That is a whole 10 seconds or so out of 24 hours of the day - big deal. NONE of my other cats want to go out - none of my other cats dart from the door (Lucky does for a couple of feet, stretches and comes back ).... Why? Because I provide them with a very rich environment and they are perfectly content inside.
I have shelves on my walls for them to jump and run around, small and large shelves, a tall cat tree, multiple window sills, box castles, and a multitude of interactive toys to keep them plenty entertained.
Hope is a former semi-feral who was rescued pregnant and before me, lived her whole life in the streets. I open the door, she runs - AWAY from it!
I believe that the idea that cats are happier outside than inside is very much a humanized idea - humans transferring their image of a cat onto the cat. Their life outside is rough. They fight, get attacked, some get tortured by mean people and even shot. That is no idea of fun IMHO.
As long as you provide them with a rich environment, they are WAY better off inside - I guarantee you my cats are very very happy and content inside. I guarantee you they are spoiled to death and they would not have it any other way

It's not easy to make up my mind whether it is right for me to let Jake to go outside if he wants to. He is an indoor only cat, but he really wants to go outside.
The thing is, I feel like if I had a cat door where he had the freedom to come in and out, and if I lived in a very rural area with no busy roads around, then yes he would be allowed to go outside.
But, not in metro Atlanta. I do feel bad keeping him inside against his wishes, even though I know it's better for him overall. But, I do what I have to do to keep him out of harm's way. I know that he doesn't understand that concept, he just wants to do what comes to him instinctively- to hunt and go after birds and all kinds of animals out there. But, I try to provide him with all kinds of toys to keep him entertained inside as well.

I've taken Jake out on a leash and harness. A lot of people do it. Some cats really enjoy it.
Jake didn't, in fact it made him even more frustrated.

Let me first start this off by saying I have both indoor cats & outdoor cats. All my cats are S/N & receive vet care. And no, not all of them are UTD on shots (due to age &/or health).

I live in the country, not on a busy road, and my outdoor cats (except one who remains more semi-feral) are enclosed in a building at night. That doesn't prevent injuries from happening, but has greatly decreased them.

IMO, most people do not have a 'safe' environment for outdoor cats. No matter where they live, even here, there are risks. Heck I probably missed something I should've noticed sooner in one of my outside cats, and while she would've ultimately died from it, she may have had more time, or at least a more comfortable end of her life.

I don't feel letting cat outdoors in/near a city is safe - doesn't matter how big a city, even in my tiny town (1,000 people) I can think of several people who have poisoned a neighbor's cat. Cars are always a danger, I know of several outdoor dogs in town that are cat killers, etc.

We live in a small town and our experience with indoor/outdoor cats has been decidedly mixed, with one cat living to >20 and another being run over by a truck at 9 months. Our last cat, a feral neutered at 8, roamed miles away from home and brought home dead guinea pigs and a koi. He also stole food from people's carts in local supermarket parking lots.

At present we have Jamie, who only goes outdoors on a leash and has access to an enclosed balcony, and share Miezi, an indoor/outdoor former stray. Jamie is large and aggressive and will attack any other cat without provocation. Letting him roam is out of the question. He's already badly injured Miezi, blinding her in one eye, and nearly killed a kitten. Miezi sticks fairly close, but annoys neighbors by begging from them, entering their homes or cars through open windows and doors, and hunting birds, and her habit of approaching any human or dog whatsoever worries me. She constantly gets into cat fights and has injuries, but refuses to adapt to indoor living only and hates the harness.

Given my druthers, I'd definitely advocate restricting outdoor excursions to a harness and leash or outdoor enclosure. It's safer for your own cats and those in the neighborhood and prevents justified complaints from neighbors.

If your cats remained on your property at all times and were spayed/neutered, had regular vet appts, etc. that's fine. It's your life and they are your cats.

BUT....you do NOT have the right to foist your cats on to me and on to my property. My property is exactly that. MINE. Not yours, not your cats. They do not have the right to fill my flower beds with poop. They do not have the right to claw the heck out of my car. They do not have the right to come up onto my deck and spray my doors because my cats are inside. And they do not have the right to come up onto my deck, look in my door, and make my cats crazy because there's a strange cat outside. Your cats do not have the right to come over to my property and stalk and kill the birds that come to my bird feeders. They do NOT have the right to do any of these things.

Keeping your cats indoors or outdoors on leashes only not only keeps your cats safer, but it's also part of being a good neighbor in the community. Nothing infuriates my neighbors more than having cats running all over the place, having kittens, ruining property, and being a downright nuisance. And since they're your cats, it's your responsibility to stop that from happening.

And in many cases (but not all), people who say it's OK for their cats to be outside at all times are simply too lazy to take care of them properly. It's easier to chuck them outside for awhile than to play with them or spend time with them in the house. Throw 'em outside and let them fend for themselves for awhile. And then cry when something happens to them.

In our local newspaper, we often have letters to the editor when somebody's cat or dog got hit by a car. "How could you hit my cat, dog, whatever? What kind of person would do that?" While I do sympathize with the owner to a certain degree, I always think that if that cat or dog would have been in the house, it never would have happened. The animal was basically killed due to his owner's negligence.

Recently, in our area, there was a man who was fined for shooting a dog....didn't kill the poor thing, but he shot it. But the dog belonged to a neighbor who left it outside quite a bit. The neighbor knew that the dog was coming over onto the man's property to pee on a certain shrub the man had recently planted. The man kept telling the neighbor not to let the dog over there, that the dog was not allowed on his property. The neighbor pooh-poohed the man. And the guy shot the dog. He was fined for his action, and justifiably so. I will never condone murdering any animal for any reason. But the woman was on tv, crying and sobbing that the guy shot her dog. We talked about it at work and everybody said it was the woman's fault and we all felt sorry for the dog. And it's the same for cats.

But you know what? Owners have to be responsible! It's that simple. If you take on the care of an animal, then you (not any neighbor....you) are responsible for the animal. And that responsibility is more than feeding the cat and taking it to the vet for check-ups.

I refuse to let mine out. They could get hit by the train (which is just a block away) or cars, I live on a busy street or stolen or get sick. I can't have that worry on my mind.

Like Ducman, I had my car damaged by a cat. well, cat and dog. A dog was chasing a cat, it chose my jeep to jump on, and the dog tried to follow (BIG Dog) and it left deep scratches on the driver's side door and window. The cat left marks on the hood of my car too. I am not very happy about this, but if the cat's owner (if it had one) should've supervised the cat at least and my car wouldn't be damaged!

I think if a cat really wants to go outside, a leash and harness is the best way to go. Or an outdoor enclosure specifically built for cats, otherwise, its best for them indoors

cat person, do you let your Savannah out as well?

I used to let my cats outside, we lived in town and they all came and went with NO problems at all....but I'm sure they used to drive my neighbors crazy, I was young, uneducated and I thought that's what you did with cats.

Then we bought a house out in the country....PERFECT, right?!?!?! WRONG!
My Mom always told me that when you move to a new place you have to keep your cat in the house for 2 weeks so he knows where his new home is...I did this.

We moved in May, by November my cat Kody got hit by a car, we live on a back road where people drive SLOW, not a busy street at all.

Then one night Moe went outside for the night (alot of times they would go out hunting all night and come home for the day). Well he never ever came home again (assuming he got eaten by a fox).

Then I had a cat Bella who disappeared, shortly after that we got 2 grey kittens, Max and May (we had to have May put to sleep due to her being sick) and Max got hit.

Then I said NO MORE OUTDOOR cats.....next Spring came and the cats were doing everything in their power to get outside, ruining screens, running through open doors, etc. I gave up.....they REALLY wanted outside. Then I lost Kipper, my beautiful calico cat.

So that was 5 cats in 6 yrs time....BUT my 9 yr old Tortie never ever had any problems.

Why has she survived every other cat? I have no clue but she has.

I was an AWFUL and I mean complete AWFUL cat owner, sure I loved my cats, and I truly believed they were happier outside.

This year I said NO CATS OUTSIDE, NO MATTER WHAT!!!!

Kaymen, my 9 yr old girl who is used to going out all Summer long took a little time to adjust, but now she doesn't even look to go out. She survived 9 yrs without getting hit and taken by a fox, she got lucky and I will never put hers or any of their lives in jeopardy again.

Just because yours hasn't been hit, poisoned or taken by a wild animal yet doesn't mean it WON'T happen. Every time a cat goes out it doesn't mean it's going to get killed, but there is a chance...my friend up the road let her cat out for 14 yrs then one day she just didn't come home She was able to survive for 14 yrs....who knows what happened to her??? It's just not worth the chance.

I have 3 dogs and I do not let them outside unsupervised, I ALWAYS, FAITHFULLY go outside with them for potty breaks, even in the middle of a snowstorm, I bundle up and out I go....I don't want them to wander off, harass the neighbors, run out on the road or anything of that nature...they're my responsibility.

Same as my cats, I just wish I knew better when I first started owning cats, it took alot of losses for me to smarten up and become more responsible.

I'll respond more later. I need to get running. Just wanted to say we live in a rural farm community and there are lots of woods and fields and few roads. I think most cats are indoor/outdoor, and Gary and I have buried five cats dead on the road in the last two years.

Ducman likes to point to USFWS info as "official," but they rely on biased research just the same as the wildlife conservation community. There is no scientific evidence to support the claim that cats are 5th on the list of songbird mortality. That said, they do hunt for sport.

And I didn't see you mention in your first post that they should be spayed/neutered before being allowed to roam? Sorry if I missed it.

All of mine live inside.

I had a kitty who went outside during the day and inside at night. She disappeared one day and I never saw her again.

My babies now, all stay inside and I will always keep it that way.

I do think there are some feral cats that would be absolutely miserable inside. They just cannot adjust to being inside and it would cause them more stress to be inside than outside, but I also believe that if they are outside, they should be somewhere where it is relatively safe for them.

My cats I have now are a Mom cat and her babies and the Mom did want out when I brought her home, but I redirected her attention everyday until the the need passed and she settled happily inside. (spaying also helped) I really do not know what I would have done if she was miserable, though. She would cry to go out, but she also was happy and relaxed when she wasnt crying to go out.

The USFWS is the definition of official, since it is the position of the US government.

http://www.fws.gov/pacific/lawenforc...er%202009.html
http://www.dfg.ca.gov/wildlife/nonga...cat/index.html
http://www.fws.gov/nationalkeydeer/p...sFactsheet.pdf
http://www.fws.gov/northeast/pipingp...df/catseat.pdf

I certainly don't blame the cats, they are just doing what is natural, but I do hold caretakers responsible for what their pets do unsupervised outdoors, and support that humans and human satellites (mice/rats/cats/dogs/rabbits/etc) should be kept clear of nature preserves and measures taken in general to control their effect on habitats.

Ferals aside, there are approximately 93 million owned cats in the US, and it should be common sense that such a large number of little predators are going to have an impact if left to roam in large numbers wherever people are. IMO, its important to preserve our environment and bio-diversity for future generations.

Wesley and Buttercup ARE allowed to eat birds though... but only non-endangered chicken and duck!

Momto3boys, your experience with cats going outdoors sounds awful! To have so many losses in such a short time, I can't even imagine how I would feel if that happened.

But, back to the subject. Yes, I do believe that it is okay to let your cat outdoors. I would never let my cat outside if I lived near a busy highway. I also wouldn't let my cat out if I knew there were neighbors that didn't want my cat on their property. While Wessie went outdoors and into my neighbors property, it seemed to me that they always liked Wessie. Obviously this wasn't true, since my next door neighbor shot him. I do keep him inside now because of that, but if I moved somewhere else, I would let him out. I wouldn't force Wessie to go out if he didn't want to, and it was not because I was lazy. I can testify to that, at least. I always wished that he would spend more time indoors, but it seemed that he was always only in for a short time, and then wanted to go back out. I used to let him sleep out all night, but then started making him sleep in with me after he went missing for 5 days. He slept inside at night all winter, and then I planned to start letting him back out at night, due to other family members. I didn't want to, but I knew that it was going to have to happen. Unfortunately, Wessie was shot before that happened.

At first Wessie really hated being inside and wanted to go out all the time, but I think he's learned to accept that I'm only doing it for his good. And yes, I agree with all of you, that I love my cat too much to let him outside. But personally, I've tried to love him a bit more and give him freedom. I feel that it would be selfish for me to just want him to live a long life, so that I can have him for as long as possible. I can tell you, it hurts me a lot to think about him dying. But if he's happy and not in too much danger, than I'm okay with letting him outside.

As to my living habits, I live in a fairly small city of 15,000 people, on a quiet street.

I just feel that we should let cats outdoor if they want to go. I also would love to have a cat enclosure if I lived in a large area, so my cat would be able to roam safely, without disturbing the neighbors. But, I don't think that cats roaming is the same as a little dog roaming. It's almost like comparing squirrels roaming the neighborhood to a bear roaming the neighborhood. There is a big difference, and people manage it differently. We also have a law where I live that you can't shoot the squirrels, which is ridiculous to me. If you can't shoot the squirrels on your property, why was my neighbor able to shoot the cat on his property? The squirrels here are not endangered, by the way.

As to cats hunting the local wildlife, I really don't believe that cats make that much of a difference to the wildlife populations. Or at least my cat doesn't, as he's not that great of a hunter. He actually did help the year he stayed out with our apple crop. Usually the squirrels eat all of the apples so we get hardly any, but that year I think he pretty much scared them away.

I'll be back for more on the topic later.

Why?

And you say if you moved again you'd let Wessie out. You already made the mistake of thinking your neighbor didn't mind your cat and he got shot. If you move again, are you going to personally contact every neighbor within Wessie's roaming distance and ask them if they mind having your cat on their property?

I can't add anything that hasn't already been said, but I will emphasize that besides all the dangers that come from allowing your cat outside, it is irresponsible to let your cats go onto other people's property. Period.

I am amazed that people think it's OK to let their cats go out because it's unfair to them to keep them inside. I guess IMO if you think that way then it's unfair for you to have them as pets in the first place. Responsible parents don't let their toddler eat nothing but junk food because it would make him happy. Responsible dog owners don't let their dogs bark incessantly even though it might make the dog happy. We talk a lot on these forums about how our cats run our houses and how spoiled they are, but the bottom line is, as a cat owner it is YOUR responsibility to make decisions that are in the best interest of your cat - even if your decision may be unpopular. And as responsible pet owners it is our duty to ensure that our pets don't infringe on our neighbors' rights. The easiest way to do this is to keep the cats indoors.

If you read the next couple of sentences, you would see my reasons.
I don't know if I would contact all my neighbors or not. I don't want Wessie to get shot or anything again, and I'll do as much as possible to prevent that, but not keeping him inside for the rest of his life. I also thought about what you would do if you had a human child. I am not putting him in danger more than I would a human. I know cats may not understand rules as much as a human would, but I find that if I tried, I could absolutely teach Wessie not to go into the neighbor's yard. If possible, I would also put up a cat fence so that he couldn't escape the yard and get into the neighbors yard.

The problem with saying that people have the right to not have free-roaming cats around is that it definitely adds fuel to the position that killing ferals is OK . So does the predation thing. So I don't like to go there.

There are some cats who are just not happy inside and never will be. And some who just aren't good as being housepets (spraying, litterbox issues, etc.). I think it's better to let them live outside than to put them down just because our human lifestyle doesn't mesh with how they behave. A large enclosure would be a good thing. . .best of both worlds. But not always possible. I also think that all kittens should be raised to be good housepets---sometimes they still grow up to be inappropriate housepets but it shouldn't be for lack of trying.

He didn't die, but unfortunately he did spread it to her other cat before she realized. I do not know what their vaccination schedule was.

As far as walking cats on a leash, yes it can be done. All of my cats are comfortable wearing a harness and a leash.

Here's my cat Church on harness (in my front yard):



and at the park:




Here is my cat Harley at the sculpture park:

So why haven't you taught him not to leave your yard so he can go out?

Personally, I find that to be a ridiculous statement, sorry. You can teach a cat not to leave your yard?

I don't understand this at all. Small dogs being compared to bears?

I have no problem with cats being allowed out if it's in an enclosure or fenced yard.

I also think older feral rescues will never be happy indoors, and it's cruel to keep them inside.

But like most other posters here, I think that if fencing in your backyard or building an enclosure isn't possible, then it's just a lazy owner not taking responsibility for their pet. Cats can be perfectly happy indoors. But it takes effort to keep them stimulated and engage them in activity.

For the health of our cats and the benefit of our environment, cats belong indoors or confined to our property - just like dogs. I see no difference. They are both companion animals, domesticated pets, and it is our responsibility to see to their care, health and welfare.

A Savannah F3 is a domestic cat. I don't understand why the OP always singles out the Savannah.

I don't get that either - why in every single post here on TCS, she speaks of the Savanah as an exotic cat.

Here is the description according to TICA:
Sorry, Cat Person, but your Savannah is a domestic cat too

I have two that want nothing to do with outside other than watching from the window, and one that will happily drag me around with her leash.

I believe responsible pet owners should have full control of their animals at all times.
Either securely fenced, leashed or indoors.

Roaming animals are a danger to themselves as well as humans.
Toxoplasmosis, ring worm, other zoonotic parasites.

OP unless you live on the other side of the globe or in Hawaii, you most definitely live in an area where there are coyotes.

There isn't an area in North America, Mexico or Central America that does not have coyotes.
As for raccoons, yes, you've been lucky, I on the other hand, have had a cat (and a small dog) mauled by a raccoon while in their own fenced yard and in broad daylight.
This was back in Seattle, not in a burb, in the city itself.
The zoo a few blocks away from me at the time had to take measures to keep marauding coyotes out as they lost several (one endangered) large birds to them.

Anyway, I don't want to pick up other people's dog or cat poop, and I'll bet they won't want to pick up mine either.

Interestingly, though not enforced, there are a few cities with regulations against free roaming pets of any kind.

That's why I asked....

I bet she doesn't let the Savannah out. Wouldn't want to take a risk of all that money disappearing.

But yet it's OK to take the chance with a regular ol domestic kitty.

It is completely beyond my comprehension that you, from all people, would advocate cats going outside. You left your cat out, in a seemly safe place, and your cat was shot. And still, you advocate letting them out, and would still let Wessie out if you moved. Wow, just wow.