FIV positive :(

Today our younger cat tested positive for FIV. I am so sad to hear this and also upset with myself. We took him in from a coworker and I continued to put off bringing him in to the vet to have him checked out. Worse thing is, now our other cat has been exposed and may test positive as well. His appointment is Monday, this will be a long few days.

Looking for any advice or help with this. I know I need to keep them separated, but I'm also worried how they will react, they are so close and great brothers.

Here are some good sites for you to look at: http://www.catchat.org/fiv.html , http://cats.about.com/cs/healthissue...v_in_cats.htm) (this site has other good "links" IMO), http://www.vet.cornell.edu/fhc/brochures/fiv.html (the BEST one IMO).

As a vet tech I can add nothing positive to your situation sorry .

My understanding is FIV is not as easily spread as FeLV. There are a few people here who have FIV+ cats who have lived with their FIV- cats. I guess I wouldn't worry about letting an FIV+ cat live w/ my others who are FIV- so long as there weren't any major bites/blood fighting b/w them.

Originally Posted by white cat lover

My understanding is FIV is not as easily spread as FeLV. There are a few people here who have FIV+ cats who have lived with their FIV- cats. I guess I wouldn't worry about letting an FIV+ cat live w/ my others who are FIV- so long as there weren't any major bites/blood fighting b/w them.

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The fighting / bites is what I'm worried about. They play and wrestle pretty often. I know there's no control, just have to wait until the appt. Monday.

Something positive

http://www.bestfriends.org/theanimal...e/cats_FIV.cfm

Are they fighting or playing? How long has he lived with you and your other cat?

Honestly, if it's play fighting, there's no need to separate them. FIV is a retrovirus, and unlike FeLV, it's typically only transmitted via deep tissue bite wounds. It CAN be passed via sharing a food bowl IF both cats have bleeding gums - but "ingestion" of the FIV virus does not transmit it.

I didn't know anything about FIV and we were devastated to learn that a kitty rescue of ours tested positive for FIV. Several people on the site helped me get up to speed, and since the foster network that was going to take Chumley would have put him down, we adopted him instead, and introduced him slowly to our 7 cats so there wouldn't be aggressive fighting. He's buddies with our Billy, and grooms him all the time.

We didn't get our other cats vaccinated against FIV, because there are different strains. The FIV vaccine only helps if you live in certain areas of the southern US, otherwise it doesn't do anything.

We do have an immune-compromised kitty - in fact, two of them now (apparently a genetic thing, and they're brothers). But because they don't fight with Chum, they're not at much risk.

FIV is a VERY slow-acting virus, and your kitty may never become ill with "Feline AIDS." It may mean that if he ever gets sick, he may need to be treated more aggressively. It also means you have to get him dentals done every six months, because FIV+ kitties are susceptible to gingivitis.

But there's no need to separate them.

I'm keeping a health journal for our Chumley - I'll go find the link.

Also, there is a site, Bud's Therapy. Please note before you start reading that after all the research and experience they put into Bud's FIV, if they had to do it all over again, they would only use the protocols in the 2nd treatment (all natural). http://www.fivtherapy.com/

Here's Chumley's health journal: http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=224483

Originally Posted by LDG

Are they fighting or playing? How long has he lived with you and your other cat?

Honestly, if it's play fighting, there's no need to separate them. FIV is a retrovirus, and unlike FeLV, it's typically only transmitted via deep tissue bite wounds. It CAN be passed via sharing a food bowl IF both cats have bleeding gums - but "ingestion" of the FIV virus does not transmit it.

I didn't know anything about FIV and we were devastated to learn that a kitty rescue of ours tested positive for FIV. Several people on the site helped me get up to speed, and since the foster network that was going to take Chumley would have put him down, we adopted him instead, and introduced him slowly to our 7 cats so there wouldn't be aggressive fighting. He's buddies with our Billy, and grooms him all the time.

We didn't get our other cats vaccinated against FIV, because there are different strains. The FIV vaccine only helps if you live in certain areas of the southern US, otherwise it doesn't do anything.

We do have an immune-compromised kitty - in fact, two of them now (apparently a genetic thing, and they're brothers). But because they don't fight with Chum, they're not at much risk.

FIV is a VERY slow-acting virus, and your kitty may never become ill with "Feline AIDS." It may mean that if he ever gets sick, he may need to be treated more aggressively. It also means you have to get him dentals done every six months, because FIV+ kitties are susceptible to gingivitis.

But there's no need to separate them.

I'm keeping a health journal for our Chumley - I'll go find the link.

Also, there is a site, Bud's Therapy. Please note before you start reading that after all the research and experience they put into Bud's FIV, if they had to do it all over again, they would only use the protocols in the 2nd treatment (all natural). http://www.fivtherapy.com/

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Thanks so much guys, I appreciate it. They play fighting, I guess I should be clearer. There is some growling at times, but it's a lot of chasing and rolling around. There is a decently deep cut on Brooks' neck (the one infected) but the vet said it is healing fine and not infected. I have not found any on JD, the older cat.

We took Brooks in from a co-worker, he was with another cat and a puppy. It's possible he got it from there. I am worried he got it from JD though. In the last place we lived in, he figured out how to push open screens and get out of the house. There would be times we would find him right away, and others where he would be gone all night. Scary.

I know vets need to do their job, but would you say they were overemphasizing how serious transmission can be? Do you really think it will be ok if they are not separated?

Originally Posted by snowy13

Thanks so much guys, I appreciate it. They play fighting, I guess I should be clearer. There is some growling at times, but it's a lot of chasing and rolling around. There is a decently deep cut on Brooks' neck (the one infected) but the vet said it is healing fine and not infected. I have not found any on JD, the older cat.

We took Brooks in from a co-worker, he was with another cat and a puppy. It's possible he got it from there. I am worried he got it from JD though. In the last place we lived in, he figured out how to push open screens and get out of the house. There would be times we would find him right away, and others where he would be gone all night. Scary.

I know vets need to do their job, but would you say they were overemphasizing how serious transmission can be? Do you really think it will be ok if they are not separated?

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I can only say this as a vet tech and what I used to see on a weekly basis at a particular vets hospital. I saw many cats from many different owners/situations where people got the transition of the disease underestimated!

If they where my cats I would have tested the new cat as I do with all my cats before they are introduced to the existing cats. But since no test is 100% accurate and I found out latter one cat did have the disease it would be put down for the safety of my other cats. But at bare minimum I would say keep them separate IMO.

Really? You've found FIV to be easily transmitted? I know that FeLV is considered by some to be easily transmitted but everything I've read about FIV says it's not.

Well, I just wrote a long response and accidentally pushed some button that took me to a different thread, so I lost the post.

Here's my take on the vet situation. Vets are obligated to focus on the risk. That said - some vets are more knowledgable about FIV than others. Some are not up-to-date on the literature, and know what they read about it five years ago. Others don't know the difference between FIV and FeLV. It's going to be up to you to read up on FIV and figure out where your vet stands in that group.

The bottom line is that your boys do roughhouse enough for one to have an infected... bite wound? If it was a scratch, that doesn't transmit it, because that's not saliva-to-blood or mucouse membraine. But if JD has gingivitis and bit Brooks, he's potentially already been exposed. (No point in testing him for another few months though).

The other thing to consider is that there are false positives. In fact, I think about 30% (sorry, I don't remember the number, but it's pretty high) of tests are false positives. That's why if you can afford it, it's best to follow-up the SNAP (ELISA) test with the Western Blot. Where we live, the Western Blot costs about $135 - $145. It tests for two specific antibodies, and is a confirmatory test (no false positives in cats older than six months).

Your vet should be knowledgable about your cats, how they interact, and your specific situation. So I wouldn't completely discount the advice. But I'd take it in view of other information you're learning about FIV. It lives outside of the body for a few seconds (unlike FeLV, which is believed to exist outside of the body potentially for hours). FIV is transmitted via saliva to blood or mucous membrane, and it is generally thought to require the deep tissue penetration for "incubation," though there is a risk with cats that have compromised immune systems that transmission from an FIV+ kitty could be more "casual."

But the bottom line is that FIV is such a slow acting virus that from the time of initial infection it generally takes a minimum of six weeks and up to three months for there to be detectable levels of virus in the cat. So take our Chumley as an example. We trapped him as part of a TNR program, but didn't want to release him because he became people-friendly quickly - and was SO cat aggressive, he scared all the ferals away. During the neuter, they treated him for an abscessed bite wound. The foster network couldn't take him right away - but if they could, he likely would have tested negative for FIV. As it was, he lived inside on his own for about six weeks until they DID have room for him. THEN we took him to be tested - and he tested positive.

But in a normal shelter-intake process, he would have tested negative. And he would have been adopted out as an FIV negative kitty. His family would have dealt with his diarrhea and his allergies &etc., all the time not knowing he had FIV. Let's say he lives in a home with other cats, indoor-only. In 5, 6, 7, 10 years... he gets some hard-to-treat illness. A vet thinks to test him for FIV. He would test positive. And everyone is left wondering - when and how did he become FIV+? And yet all the other cats in the home are still FIV-.

I don't know if I answered your question. But hopefully we've all helped with information that will help you - with your vet - decide the best course of action.

Originally Posted by Cat Person

I can only say this as a vet tech and what I used to see on a weekly basis at a particular vets hospital. I saw many cats from many different owners/situations where people got the transition of the disease underestimated!

If they where my cats I would have tested the new cat as I do with all my cats before they are introduced to the existing cats. But since no test is 100% accurate and I found out latter one cat did have the disease it would be put down for the safety of my other cats. But at bare minimum I would say keep them separate IMO.

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The ELISA tests have quite a few false positives (32%). The Western Blot is accurate: http://www.fivtherapy.com/fiv_testing.htm. I'm surprised that you wouldn't mention this.

BTW, we have an immune-compromised kitty. He has hemolytic anemia (an autoimmune disorder). He's aggressive. And we knew that (outside) Chumley was VERY aggressive. We live in an RV. We rented a trailer for Chumley while waiting for room at the foster network to open up. When we found out he was FIV+, we immediately started making slow introductions, because we weren't going to kill him.

Once neutered, he turned out to be a real sweetheart, and he loves the other cats. So we got lucky. And our cats are all older - Tuxie was 8 when Chumley was introduced - and Chumley was 3 or 4 years old.

But at the time, we considered things like... should we remove all of Chumley's teeth? Seems cruel - but better than killing him (we felt). The benefit? No problems with his teeth/gums that are often chronic problems for FIV kitties. Someone suggested just having his canines filed down. That's another option.

In the end, we discussed everything with our vet, who is very knowledgable about our situation and FIV. But since the introductions went so well, we took none of those measures.

But despite Cat Person's claims, FIV is not generally transmitted casually. Again - it can be a risk if the other cat(s) have a compromised immune system.

But in the stray/feral community, about 2.5% of the population is FIV+. The rate of FeLV infection is closer to 5% - so clearly FIV is not transmitted as easily as FeLV. (Interestingly, both rates of infection in the unowned cat community are the same as within the owned cat community).

Also, there is an FIV cat Yahoo group: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/FIVCats/

I suggest you join!

So sorry! One last thought (for now ). Spend time on the http://www.fivtherapy.com site. It is incredibly well researched, and ALL information is referenced to scholarly articles, and re: treatment options, the thinking is really well documented and clearly outlined.

So if you want information that is not opinion-based, it's a great resourse.

This page on the site is hard to find, but it discusses transmission: http://www.fivtherapy.com/fiv_casualtransmission.htm

Originally Posted by Willowy

Really? You've found FIV to be easily transmitted? I know that FeLV is considered by some to be easily transmitted but everything I've read about FIV says it's not.

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You are aware I am NOT a veterinarian right, if not let me say again I am not. I am just saying that one veterinarian clinic I worked as a veterinarian technician seemed to indicate that FIV was easy to transmit. I assumed that what I was noticing was correct since cats bite each other fairly frequently. So blood and saliva exchange seemed like an easy way to transmit FIV.

But maybe it is not as easy as I thought. But I would not risk the health of my other cats for just one (I have four-3 domestics and a F3 Savannah). So that is why at bare minimum I would separate the cats. Though as I said if I got a new cat and it tested positive for FIV it would simple be put down as I would not risk my existing cats health.

Originally Posted by LDG

The ELISA tests have quite a few false positives (32%). The Western Blot is accurate: http://www.fivtherapy.com/fiv_testing.htm. I'm surprised that you wouldn't mention this.

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So this leads me to believe that that many cats are "wrongly" diagnosed with FIV? Thank you for teaching me something about FIV testing ! I did not mention it as it was not taught to me till just now.

Yes, many cats test positive falsely. That's why most knowledgeable vets will recommend the Western Blot if the SNAP test is positive. But normal play will not transmit FIV. A kitty grabbing the scruff of another isnt a danger. It requires a deep tissue bite wound in cats with normal healthy immune systems. And the test is completely unreliable in cats under six months of age. If their mom was FIV positive, they'll have the antigens from her milk and yet may not be infected.

And no knowledgeable vet would recommend euthanization of a pet just for testing positive for FIV. Shelters or rescue groups may have a policy of not accepting FIV kitties, but that's a resource decision. Cat Person, maybe you were working at a vet clinic that wasn't up on FIV. That's not unusual, sadly.

Originally Posted by LDG

Yes, many cats test positive falsely. That's why most knowledgeable vets will recommend the Western Blot if the SNAP test is positive. But normal play will not transmit FIV. A kitty grabbing the scruff of another isnt a danger. It requires a deep tissue bite wound in cats with normal healthy immune systems. And the test is completely unreliable in cats under six months of age. If their mom was FIV positive, they'll have the antigens from her milk and yet may not be infected.

And no knowledgeable vet would recommend euthanization of a pet just for testing positive for FIV. Shelters or rescue groups may have a policy of not accepting FIV kitties, but that's a resource decision. Cat Person, maybe you were working at a vet clinic that wasn't up on FIV. That's not unusual, sadly.

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Well thank you for all that information. Your very informative , so how did you gain all that knowledge?

I did not mean the veterinarian would recommend that the owner euthanize the cat. I meant working for all the rescues across the United States as I have and am now working for one again the FIV positive cats are put down. I had thought till last night if I ever did adopt an FIV postive cat I would put it down. But now I am not sure .

Is FIV easy for a hybrid exotic to get like a Savannah? I am terrified of making him sick as I do him very much!

Originally Posted by Cat Person

Well thank you for all that information. Your very informative

, so how did you gain all that knowledge?

I did not mean the veterinarian would recommend that the owner euthanize the cat. I meant working for all the rescues across the United States as I have and am now working for one again the FIV positive cats are put down. I had thought till last night if I ever did adopt an FIV postive cat I would put it down. But now I am not sure

.

Is FIV easy for a hybrid exotic to get like a Savannah? I am terrified of making him sick as I do

him very much!

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1) FIV is not "easy" for any cat to get. But unsterilized & roaming cats are at risk, because fighting and mating are the main sources of transmission.

2) Your Savannah is a domestic cat, so of course it is susceptible. It's just a different breed. That's like asking if a Persian or a Maine Coon is susceptible.

3) Many shelters euthanize FeLV and FIV cats because they are difficult to adopt because there is so much misinformation and lack of education about the difference between FIV and FeLV, and it is an issue of resources.

4) Some vets will recommend euthanizing FeLV or FIV kitties because they are not well educated about the difference between FIV and FeLV.

Re: the knowledge base. I conduct research for a living. When I got involved in cat rescue (2001), I just apply those skills to whatever situation needs addressing. I tend to focus on issues of cat predation and TNR-related science (my latest piece is here: 17 Reasons the Economic Impact of the Cat in the U.S. is not $17 billion. But when our kitties get sick, I research. And I help others here research problems they encounter. The piece I provided here should indicate the depths to which I dig. I seek cited sources when possible as opposed to the uncited information sites, as I always prefer real research as opposed to opinions.