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Norway "apparently" hit by terrorism

post #1 of 96
Thread Starter 
This is awful... why the peace always should be break...


http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/07/22...ries-reported/

Poor of the victims...
post #2 of 96
There are reports of 7 deaths, and a second attack on a youth camp.
Norway hit by deadly blast, shootings
Norway reeling after two deadly attacks
post #3 of 96
Very sad, my heart goes out to the people of Norway
post #4 of 96
Heard about that earlier, but its not necessarily terrorism. Some people just want to kill a lot of random people, or people of a certain group, but aren't really trying to use fear as a vehicle to further their cause.

Early reports I believe just assumed it was since explosives were used.
post #5 of 96
It's far worse than originally feared, and apparently the work of a right-wing extremist:
At Least 80 Are Dead in Norway Shooting
Quote:
A lone political extremist bombed the government center here on Friday, killing 7 people, the police said, before heading to an island summer camp for young members of the governing Labor Party and killing at least 80 people. The police arrested a 32-year-old Norwegian man in connection with both attacks, the deadliest on Norwegian soil since World War II.
Survivor: Gunman screams 'we all shall die' during shooting spree
Quote:
...Friday's shooting attack at the ruling Labour Party's youth camp that police said left at least 84 dead people. The attack came shortly after an explosion in the Norwegian capital of Olso that killed seven people, raising the combined death toll in both attacks to 91.
...
The 700 teens and young adults attending the camp were gathered in a large meeting room where camp organizers were sharing information about the bombing in Olso when the police officer asked if he could address the group, Pracon said.

"We, of course, allowed him to come" in and address the group, Pracon said.

It was then, Pracon says, the man started shooting.
post #6 of 96
It's looking like he was a right-wing extremist, and it may have been an attempt to assassinate the Norwegian prime minister.
post #7 of 96
My prayers and thoughts are with the victims and their families.

Whoever is responsible has simply negated their cause because no matter what they have to say, even if it makes sense, will not be heard. They have made themselves public enemies due to their methods. Senseless.
post #8 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by aprilyim View Post
Whoever is responsible has simply negated their cause because no matter what they have to say, even if it makes sense, will not be heard. They have made themselves public enemies due to their methods. Senseless.
True. Always true in terrorism, whoever does it.

Already there are "truthers" out, claiming it could not possibly be the work of one man.
post #9 of 96
The death toll is still climbing; there are reports of 4 kids still missing and presumed in the water.

Norway attacks: at least 92 killed in Oslo and Utøya island
Quote:
The Norwegian daily Verdens Gang quoted a friend as saying he became a rightwing extremist in his late 20s. It said he expressed strong nationalistic views in online debates and had been a strong opponent of the idea that people of different cultural backgrounds can live alongside each other.
post #10 of 96
Thread Starter 
My God!...85 casualitys on the Island... that was a monster, the shooter!...
I Hope they punish at this person!..
post #11 of 96
^The longest jail sentence he can get in Norway is 21 years. It's amazing how well he had managed to plan everything, and that everything went just as he had hoped for. 93 dead and 97 wounded so possibly the death toll may rise.

He was very religious (christian) and strongly against muslims and immigrants (or the situation with them in Norway and how the government was handling those issues). He called himself a crusader and nationalist.

In his diary he had written "I prayed - I explained to god that if he doesn't want marxist-islamic alliance and the islamic coup to destroy European christendom in the next hundred years, he has to ensure that the warriors fighting for European christianity will win."
(Sorry if the grammar sucks, had to translate it from Finnish).
post #12 of 96
Thread Starter 
JUST only 21 YEARS?????....they are kidding right???...
post #13 of 96
Problem is, Norway doesn't have much crime. The last time there was anything even close to this type of violence was in WWII.

They might just rewrite their penal codes to suit this guy. He deserves a lifetime of torture.
post #14 of 96
Apparently, not everyone is bothered by this horrible crime.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/07/25/beck.norway/

I did a search of Fox News site to see what their take on Beck's comments were...and apparently they don't have one. It isn't mentioned on Fox, anywhere.
post #15 of 96
Why am I not surprised? Here's some other food for thought:
Killings in Norway Spotlight Anti-Muslim Thought in U.S.
Quote:
The man accused of the killing spree in Norway was deeply influenced by a small group of American bloggers and writers who have warned for years about the threat from Islam, lacing his 1,500-page manifesto with quotations from them, as well as copying multiple passages from the tract of the Unabomber.
...
His manifesto, which denounced Norwegian politicians as failing to defend the country from Islamic influence, quoted Robert Spencer, who operates the Jihad Watch Web site, 64 times, and cited other Western writers who shared his view that Muslim immigrants pose a grave danger to Western culture.
To quote Beck: http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/07/25/beck.norway/
Quote:
But while condemning the attacks, Beck said he predicted last fall that Europe "is going to go into problems with radical Islam" and cited Dutch far-right politician Geert Wilders as saying "Political correctness and multiculturalism is killing Europe, and he's right."
post #16 of 96
It would appear that Bill O'Reilly is another Fox figure that has difficulty dealing with reality when it's a reality he doesn't particularly like.
post #17 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippymjp View Post
It would appear that Bill O'Reilly is another Fox figure that has difficulty dealing with reality when it's a reality he doesn't particularly like.


To not like the reality of much of the Islamic culture is not denying reality, it's understanding it.

Glenn Beck isn't my favorite commentator, but this guy who killed those kids IS a madman.
post #18 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by resqchick View Post


To not like the reality of much of the Islamic culture is not denying reality, it's understanding it.

Glenn Beck isn't my favorite commentator, but this guy who killed those kids IS a madman.
Could you quantify "much"? Exactly how many is "much"? A percentage will do just fine. And how is it O'Reilly feels justified in making judgements as to a persons faith? Supposedly, Christians are deemed worthy by the strength of their faith, not their actions. So why is it reversed in this case? And if actions are what indicates it's "impossible" to be a Christian, then his being judgmental on all things and people makes it "impossible" for him to be one as well.

He has simply been faced with a reality that his mind can't deal with. A Christian terrorist.
post #19 of 96
Do they have a death penelty (sp) in Norway??? Because no one deserves in more than this guy!!!!!!

And speaking as a parent I have to say when you send your child to camp, you expect them to have a good time...and that's it. The very last thing any parent would expect is someone showing up with a gun and killing the kids!!!
post #20 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippymjp View Post
Could you quantify "much"? Exactly how many is "much"? A percentage will do just fine. And how is it O'Reilly feels justified in making judgements as to a persons faith? Supposedly, Christians are deemed worthy by the strength of their faith, not their actions. So why is it reversed in this case? And if actions are what indicates it's "impossible" to be a Christian, then his being judgmental on all things and people makes it "impossible" for him to be one as well.

He has simply been faced with a reality that his mind can't deal with. A Christian terrorist.
There are MANY Christian terrorists in the ME. Just because someone lives there doesn't make them Muslims. Actually, "Christians" in Palestine are pretty militant themselves.

A percentage? You are joking, right? If you believe that the way Muslims treat women is correct, and the way they show anti-western propaganda on their television shows to the children, is the right way to raise children correctly, then you should go there and see how you are treated. Do not tell me they don't do this-I have been there.

O'Reilly isn't "Christian" BTW, as a matter of fact, many "Christians" would not consider him Christian at all, as a Catholic. If someone calls it as they see it, and they see it pretty darned clearly, it's wrong? or is it wrong just according to being PC about it?

Lorie, I don't know if they have a death penalty in Norway, I tend to think they don't. It wasn't actually a camp for children to swim and sing campfire songs. It was a political camp. I don't care what they were teaching, nobody should feel justified opening fire on anyone, or blowing up buildings for any cause.
post #21 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by resqchick View Post
There are MANY Christian terrorists in the ME. Just because someone lives there doesn't make them Muslims. Actually, "Christians" in Palestine are pretty militant themselves.
I know this well. When I was in Beirut in 1982 I met many of them. In fact, our mission was protecting Muslim civilians from the Christian militia, who slaughtered hundreds before we got there. O'Reilly however, quite plainly and forcefully stated that it is impossible for a Christian to do such things. His mind simply can't grasp it.

Quote:
A percentage? You are joking, right? If you believe that the way Muslims treat women is correct, and the way they show anti-western propaganda on their television shows to the children, is the right way to raise children correctly, then you should go there and see how you are treated. Do not tell me they don't do this-I have been there.
Yes, a percentage. Oppressing women isn't a Muslim thing, it's a cultural thing. Ever been to Lebanon, where Muslim women walk around in broad daylight, un-escorted, go to work and to school wearing jeans and pheasant blouses? So, what percentage of Muslims are terrorists?

Quote:
O'Reilly isn't "Christian" BTW, as a matter of fact, many "Christians" would not consider him Christian at all, as a Catholic. If someone calls it as they see it, and they see it pretty darned clearly, it's wrong? or is it wrong just according to being PC about it?
Catholics are the original Christians. How everyone else see's it is their problem. And besides, as I pointed out above, how he "see's it" is wrong.

Quote:
Lorie, I don't know if they have a death penalty in Norway, I tend to think they don't. It wasn't actually a camp for children to swim and sing campfire songs. It was a political camp. I don't care what they were teaching, nobody should feel justified opening fire on anyone, or blowing up buildings for any cause.
post #22 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippymjp View Post
I know this well. When I was in Beirut in 1982 I met many of them. In fact, our mission was protecting Muslim civilians from the Christian militia, who slaughtered hundreds before we got there. O'Reilly however, quite plainly and forcefully stated that it is impossible for a Christian to do such things. His mind simply can't grasp it.



Yes, a percentage. Oppressing women isn't a Muslim thing, it's a cultural thing. Ever been to Lebanon, where Muslim women walk around in broad daylight, un-escorted, go to work and to school wearing jeans and pheasant blouses? So, what percentage of Muslims are terrorists?



Catholics are the original Christians. How everyone else see's it is their problem. And besides, as I pointed out above, how he "see's it" is wrong.
I was in Lebanon in the late 70's, and as far as I could tell, the women were wrapped as they were in Israel (Not the Hebrews, the Muslims), Egypt and
Yemen. I have family in Israel, and one of my Aunts is from Yemen.

I have nothing against Catholics-I am one. However, my Christian friends would disagree with Catholics being "Christians". I don't believe that a TRUE Christian would act in any way besides being what they claim they should be. The ones that openly speak out against other Christian sects are sometimes pretty scary. I can say I agree with O'Reilly if he is speaking about true Christians, not so much their intolerant counterparts.

As far as Terrorists, I can tell you this: I realize there are some Muslims that will denounce terrorism, and the forced cultural takeover by Islam, over the western world. However, there's many more that would love to see it happen, even though they wouldn't admit it to you. (kinda like the public side of the NYC government. ) there are many that would, and do, support terrorism. I do not hate a whole religion, however, those that support the oppressive way of life, the violence, and hatred of my country, and their supporters, I personally have no use for.

So, because O'Reilly doesn't "see it" like you do, he's wrong? Ok. If that's how you roll...great.
post #23 of 96
No, they don't have death penalty in Norway. They might try to get him 30 years (crime agains humanity ot something like that, can't translate it), but it's more likely he'll get that 21 years which is the sentence for terrorism, unless he is mentally ill which he isn't. His lawyer said that he won't work for him unless he (the killer) agrees to take the mental/competency evaluation (not sure if I'm translating the word correctly).
That's much better anyway from what he ever would get here, our max jail sentence is 13 years, no matter what you do.. And the jails in Nordic countries are more like 'hotels' than jails. The system just sucks.

Someone here said that catholics are the original christians. I always thought the jews were..
post #24 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernGlow View Post
No, they don't have death penalty in Norway. They might try to get him 30 years (crime agains humanity ot something like that, can't translate it), but it's more likely he'll get that 21 years which is the sentence for terrorism, unless he is mentally ill which he isn't. His lawyer said that he won't work for him unless he (the killer) agrees to take the mental/competency evaluation (not sure if I'm translating the word correctly).
That's much better anyway from what he ever would get here, our max jail sentence is 13 years, no matter what you do.. And the jails in Nordic countries are more like 'hotels' than jails. The system just sucks.

Someone here said that catholics are the original christians. I always thought the jews were..
Yes. They were!
post #25 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by resqchick View Post
I was in Lebanon in the late 70's, and as far as I could tell, the women were wrapped as they were in Israel (Not the Hebrews, the Muslims), Egypt and
Yemen. I have family in Israel, and one of my Aunts is from Yemen.
Seeing only the "wrapped" one's is a pretty understandable case of seeing what one's wants to see. It's a far more complex place than that;

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/baby...der-islam.html

Just as in the US, people notice the Muslim women in Burqas, but completely miss the Muslim women in the current western fashion.

Quote:
I have nothing against Catholics-I am one. However, my Christian friends would disagree with Catholics being "Christians". I don't believe that a TRUE Christian would act in any way besides being what they claim they should be. The ones that openly speak out against other Christian sects are sometimes pretty scary. I can say I agree with O'Reilly if he is speaking about true Christians, not so much their intolerant counterparts.
So which one's are the "true Christians", and why do you come to that conclusion?

Quote:
As far as Terrorists, I can tell you this: I realize there are some Muslims that will denounce terrorism, and the forced cultural takeover by Islam, over the western world. However, there's many more that would love to see it happen, even though they wouldn't admit it to you. (kinda like the public side of the NYC government. ) there are many that would, and do, support terrorism. I do not hate a whole religion, however, those that support the oppressive way of life, the violence, and hatred of my country, and their supporters, I personally have no use for.
Just as there are Christians who would love to see a crusade against Islam happen. It's not an exclusive club. Many will denounce what happened in Norway, but some will make excuses, such as Mr. O'Reilly.
Quote:
So, because O'Reilly doesn't "see it" like you do, he's wrong? Ok. If that's how you roll...great.
You yourself said there are Christian terrorists. He says there are not. Who is wrong, you or him?
post #26 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernGlow View Post
No, they don't have death penalty in Norway. They might try to get him 30 years (crime agains humanity ot something like that, can't translate it), but it's more likely he'll get that 21 years which is the sentence for terrorism, unless he is mentally ill which he isn't. His lawyer said that he won't work for him unless he (the killer) agrees to take the mental/competency evaluation (not sure if I'm translating the word correctly).
That's much better anyway from what he ever would get here, our max jail sentence is 13 years, no matter what you do.. And the jails in Nordic countries are more like 'hotels' than jails. The system just sucks.

Someone here said that catholics are the original christians. I always thought the jews were..
The Jews that became Christians, became Christians. Paul is considered the first Pope. That would make Paul the first Catholic.
post #27 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippymjp View Post
Seeing only the "wrapped" one's is a pretty understandable case of seeing what one's wants to see. It's a far more complex place than that;

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/baby...der-islam.html

Just as in the US, people notice the Muslim women in Burqas, but completely miss the Muslim women in the current western fashion.



So which one's are the "true Christians", and why do you come to that conclusion?



Just as there are Christians who would love to see a crusade against Islam happen. It's not an exclusive club. Many will denounce what happened in Norway, but some will make excuses, such as Mr. O'Reilly.


You yourself said there are Christian terrorists. He says there are not. Who is wrong, you or him?
He doesn't mean those Christians that say they are Christians but act quite differently. I know quite a few of those. I also know Christians that believe in love and tolerance. THOSE are true Christians, who would NEVER promote violence. He and I agree.

I don't miss women in normal clothes. When I was there (Lebanon-I wised up for the other Muslim Countries), I was made to wear grey sheets. (They were not handing out burqas. They were literally sheets with strings on them so women could tie them around themselves)

Maybe I was mistaken and they were handing out Levis and tanks, since they are such a cutting edge culture?
post #28 of 96
Lebanon is predominantly a Christian country. The President of Lebanon is even Christian, although there is a Sunni Prime Minister. There are pockets of of Lebanon who are Muslim, especially in the south, but it has never been a country that ever required women to cover, ever, ever.

Even a lot of women who do cover in Lebanon, they wear their tight jeans with their cover.
post #29 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by resqchick View Post
He doesn't mean those Christians that say they are Christians but act quite differently. I know quite a few of those. I also know Christians that believe in love and tolerance. THOSE are true Christians, who would NEVER promote violence. He and I agree.
So, by denomination, which are true Christians, and which are not? Which one has no violent members. They're all different, so only 1 can be completely right. Which one is it, and why?

Quote:
I don't miss women in normal clothes. When I was there (Lebanon-I wised up for the other Muslim Countries), I was made to wear grey sheets. (They were not handing out burqas. They were literally sheets with strings on them so women could tie them around themselves)
I was there in 82 and 83, and what women wore burqas did so because they wanted to or felt compelled to by faith, not law. I also saw a lot of jeans and dresses, and watched Lebanese newscasts with very attractive female Lebanese anchors. And you sure you were in the right place.

Quote:
Maybe I was mistaken and they were handing out Levis and tanks, since they are such a cutting edge culture?
Watch the videos on the above link.

This photo was taken in Beirut in 2006. There appears to be a quite obvious absence of gray sheets.
post #30 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pami View Post
Lebanon is predominantly a Christian country. The President of Lebanon is even Christian, although there is a Sunni Prime Minister. There are pockets of of Lebanon who are Muslim, especially in the south, but it has never been a country that ever required women to cover, ever, ever.

Even a lot of women who do cover in Lebanon, they wear their tight jeans with their cover.
Exactly. Just like in the US. If the treatment of women were a "Muslim thing" it would NOT be determined by the law of regional governments, it would be determined by the Muslim population. When it varies from culture to culture, that is an undeniable indicator that it is "cultural".
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