Declaw or no cat!

I am getting my first cat ever (first pet for that matter) I really want one and we already have a kitten lined up from a farm and be an 8 week old kitten striaght from its mother when we get it. It will be "fixed" and have all necessary shots. Mittens (which I hope will be its name pending a judgement from my brat sister) will be a housecat and NEVER go outside. I know declawing is a terrible thing and I'm sure everyone on here is adamantly opposed but I am torn :/ My parents recently spent $7,000 on new furniture and want it protected (rightfully so). Ultimately they want the cat declawed, but are willing to give it a couple months to try and train the cat not too scratch the furniture. They also won't get a previously declawed shelter cat. What should I do? Just give in to an initial declaw? I heard laser declaw is more humane, can that be an option? Is there a "magic bullet" way not to get the cat to scratch the couches? HELP!

P.s.- Please don't just yell at me because I am considering a declaw

Originally Posted by buffalo-mitch

They also won't get a previously declawed shelter cat. What should I do? Just give in to an initial declaw?

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Why? Do they give you a reason for this?

And what happens if you declaw said cat and it starts inappropriate peeing all over the expensive furniture because of the surgery, many cats do. Or peels out with the back paws, or gets kitty fur or puke on it? Animals can damage stuff, it happens, it's life and you need to realistically consider that before bringing one home, far too many pets get dumped just for doing things animals do. You can certainly clip nails, put on those little plastic paw things, get scratching posts and everything but it's still a possibility that furniture might get scratched at some point.

There are ways to reliably train a cat not to scratch the furniture. Of course, kittens will be naughty (just like puppies chewing things!), so keeping them in Soft Claws while they're learning can prevent any damage. Soft Claws are kind of fun, too. Check out the links in my signature for specific training advice.

I, too, wonder how they feel about the other damages cats can cause. Will they make you get rid of the cat if it barfs on the furniture, chews the leather couch, or starts peeing on the carpet? If so, it may be better not to bring a cat into the home.

Ok, it seems like I'm being just a bit villianized for even bringing up the topic. I am NOT in favor of a declaw and certainly dont want to torture anything. I would NEVER dump a cat. They do not want a shelter cat for fear that it could be nasty (I know almost all shelter adoptions are sucessful but I hvae to respect their wishes). They said a declaw can be avoided if the cat can be trained to stay away from the furniture. I have read about those SoftPaws and they seem like a good idea. Trimming nails work too I hear, but I'll have to read up more on how to do it properly. Are there any other really good tactics I could use? (Please dont be as questioning this time)

Unfortunately there's no 100% guarantee that you can train a cat not to scratch. There's also no 100% guarantee that a cat you declaw won't have behavioral/health issues in the future. You say that your parents don't want a previously declawed shelter cat because the cat could be nasty... I have friends who only adopt previously declawed shelter cats and they have gotten 3 wonderful cats this way. You can work with someone at a shelter who will know the cat's personality and disposition and can help place you with a cat that will work for you. IMO, that would be the best way to know what kind of pet you are bringing home.

I think the main concern is that you are looking for a way to assure your parents that a cat will not scratch their furniture, but there's no way to know that, whether you declaw, trim nails, or use soft paws. The concern is that your parents will feel that they didn't get the cat they agreed to, and then where does that leave him?

I think people tend to scream and yell rather than to rationally educate. Being emotional never makes anyone honestly listen to your points of view. Maybe you should take this approach when talking to your family. So some research online about WHY the laser declaw is really just a different way of doing the same basic procedure. It doesn't hurt less, it doesn't make a cat less likely to develop complications from being declawed later in life such as arthritis.

If cats are given PROPER outlets for scratching and climbing then they should have no interest in your furniture. Cats like couches and curtains when they do not have trees and window seats and sisal rope of their own. Please notice I said proper. A two foot tall cardboard scratching post that tips over will not suffice. Cats need different textures, sizes and heights of scratching activities.

I suggest you do lots of research on providing a proper enriching environment. These things do not have to be expensive - and it's not hard. But all in your home will be much happier

Most people who don't know just assume you declaw your kitty. It sounds like you are trying to do the best thing. You just need to put in the effort to bring everyone else around. Best of luck to you - I know you can do it!

To be honest, I think you're better off not getting a cat until you have your own place and can make your own rules, and be sure the kitty won't be declawed. My cats never scratched on furniture, but in the process of running around, their claws caught on the leather dining chairs, and scratched them and destroyed them. A kitten WILL play on the furniture and will cause damage.

Yes, I have heard that laser declaw is not as painful, but you are still altering the cat's structure, and their main defense mechanism, which can cause psychological and physical problems.

Please, save a cat by not adopting it and putting it through inevitable problems.

Congrats on your new kitty, that is very exciting. If possible though, I would recommend leaving the kitten with its mother until 10-12 weeks. It may not seem like long, but it ensures a proper weaning and socialization by its mother and peers. I don't know if its even a possibility, but I also HIGHLY recommend adopting cats in pairs from a litter with their favorite sibling. They are less destructive this way since they have a playmate to chase and wrestle and cuddle with to occupy their time when you're not around.

Even declaw advocates will tell you straight out that you really can't declaw a cat that young regardless. Kittens are very likely to cause damage with their claws though, so do some research on soft-paws aka soft-claws. These are nail caps and can be quite challenging to get on a kitten, but will give you the time you need to try and train the cat. There are stickies in this forum on various techniques and tools you will need to purchase. Generally speaking, you want a flat, angled, and vertical scratching post, preferably in various materials from sisal, to cardboard, to carpet. Any good cat tree generally has the vertical sisal part covered for you, so you just need a few of the others. Don't expect catnip to work as an attractant for very young kittens. Most cats I know don't get excited about catnip until they are almost adults, but you can scratch with your own claws or drag theirs over it, and they will still want to scratch even w/ the caps on... and in fact even declawed cats scratch, just without damage as its instinct to scent mark things with their paws.

If you ultimately come to a cross-roads where its declaw or cat goes to the shelter, then I would advise the declaw, as the majority of shelter cats are unfortunately euthanized and I'd much rather be a declawed pampered indoor cat than a released stray having to learn street smarts without the headstart. The most dangerous part of a declaw is the anesthesia, although that is fairly routine. What you may want to do then is to put off having the kitten fixed until you come to that crossroad at around 4 months. Early neuters/spays really aren't beneficial for cat's health and is done IMO for the practical reason that if its not done at time of adoption, it may NEVER be done and cat overpopulation is a very serious problem. That way the cat only has to go under and recover once. At this age neither is microsurgery, but the cat is still young enough that they heal quickly and its not too much weight on the paws.

There are different types of declaw. One is a tendonectomy which merely prevents the claw from extending (it is usually tucked up by a flap of skin in the paw). This is minor quick healing surgery, but has the disadvantage that the claws will have to be regularly trimmed. The others involve either shaving of or removal of the dystal phalanx on which the claw grows. The shaving removes just the claw, but the disadvantage is that if germinal cells remain the claw can regrow inside the now closed pad. Thus removal of the dystal phalanx although more difficult surgery, is generally recommended. There are three methods of performing the surgery, but the latest and highly recommended is with laser, and insist that they pay for this if you go this route. Although it is expensive, it ensures that blood vessels and nerve endings are instantly cauterized, which reduces pain, bleeding, and heal times and allows the cat to walk the next day bandage free. Pain medication should be given at least for one week. You will need to use a specialized litter, as you don't want fine clay to impact in the site and cause infection and pain. For commercial products, Yesterday's News Unscented by Purina is often recommended. The Swheat Scoop that I use, a great litter, says that its also designed to be safe for newly declawed cats on the bag, although I don't know of first hand accounts if its as good. The downside w/ the laser and pain medication is that some kittens won't be respectful of the recent surgery, so confine them to a soft carpeted area without tall things to jump off of while healing. Complete recovery should take approximately 2 weeks, at which point you can use regular litter and allow them to do jump wild.

Originally Posted by Ducman

Even declaw advocates will tell you straight out that you really can't declaw a cat that young regardless.

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Unfortunately, no. The vets around here recommend doing de-claws at 8-10 weeks, but they say that's too young to spay/neuter, which results in rather a lot of young de-clawed tomcats being surrendered to the shelters or dumped to run loose in the streets. And a lot of de-clawed pregnant females. Because, of course, their owners have no problems paying $100 to protect their precious furniture from naughty kitten claws, but won't cough up another $75-$120 to have him neutered or her spayed. Or else they "forget" to have it done before he starts spraying (or she gets pregnant), and won't gamble with the chance that neutering might stop the spraying. It's a bad practice and I wish vets would refuse to de-claw an unaltered cat.

And the AVMA now recommends strongly against tendonectomy. It's just not supposed to be considered an option anymore, at least for vets who are AVMA members. Evidently too many people were neglecting to clip their cats claws, and since the cat couldn't extend them for grooming, they were growing into the cats' paws. And almost everyone who had their cat tendonectomized eventually had the cat fully de-clawed after a few years anyway. There's an explanation of their recommendation on their website if you want to see it for yourself.

At the very least, I think most would agree that a 4 month old kitten is physically larger, and thus has reduced risk for anesthesia and surgical errors since the anatomy isn't quite as tiny. Mine were spayed/neutered as tiny kittens too and are perfectly fine, but its just not ideal IMO and I would have chosen differently personally.

Originally Posted by sarahp

To be honest, I think you're better off not getting a cat until you have your own place and can make your own rules

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There is the possibility (hopefully) your parents will fall in love with your little one and forget about the furniture!

buffalo-mitch, this comes from someone who for many years had a declawed shelter cat. She was the best, sweetest cat ever, no problems there, not a single one. But the long-term effects of the surgery made her life more painful and difficult when she started aging and we did have to make some changes to make things easier, less painful for her. (The changes involved the substrate that goes into the litter box. We had to find the kind of substrate that was soft and cushiony enough for her needs and it was also something she could accept. Some things that should have worked didn't, but that's normal for cats.)

Anyway, please read this information
http://declaw.lisaviolet.com/

and seriously consider sarahp's advice in post #8

Please, save a cat by not adopting it and putting it through inevitable problems.

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Please do not declaw the kitten. Thank God, my cats are adults now and since they have their scratching posts they aren't interested in the furniture anymore, but when they were young, they were and they scratched our sofa a little. Now we are all moving to a new house and with new furniture, my family is a lottle worried aboit the furniture, but they have learned to love my cats and they know I love them so they don't care.

I think getting a kitten, wicth your parents feeling that way will be stressful and difficult for you. It won't be easy.

Just my , in this case I do not think you should get a kitten since everyone in the household is NOT in agreement. So even if the kitten was declawed then some other "issue" would pop up and then the kitten/cat would still need to be rehomed.

However I do not feel that declawing a cat is always a bad idea like most of you do. I think if it is done when the animal is young enough it is very acceptable.

Having done cat rescue/fostering for many years I know that many cats are given away due to clawing inappropriate items. So I feel that if the cat/kitten is declawed but stays in its home that is not bad.

Second as a vet tech and domestic cat owner it is much easier to do "home medical needs" on a cat without claws. Like giving a oral medication. Or even in some cases put on the monthly dose of flea medication.

Some of you will say that declawed cats spray/pee in inappropriate places more. I have never seen any statistics to prove that. I also have never seen a rescue/foster cat do that. Hence I am not convinced of it on a personal level.

Now some of you will say a declawed cat bites more. I think that is only true due to the fact people "press there luck" more with the cat that is declawed and then get bitten. But I do not think the cat actually bites more. I just think people take "liberties" that they would not if that cat has claws.

*** I know some of you will jump down my throat but you will not be getting a rise out of me : ***

Lastly none of my personal domestic cats are declawed nor is my Savannah. But my Savannah even in play cause me "injuries" on a weekly basis. If someone wants I can post photo's and then you will all see why I wished I had him declawed when he was a kitten. But he is almost a year old now and I would not do it. But I wish I did .

Lol, someone on my dog forum is catsitting a de-clawed cat who needs to be medicated. She's having a terrible time of it. Not sure she'd agree that the cat being de-clawed is making it easier! Unless you mean taking the back claws out, too (this cat is kicking her so bad with her back claws that she looks like she's been in a fight with a chainsaw), but a lot of vets won't do that.

I just can't imagine my kitties without their claws, it is part of who they are, they need them. I don't care how many things they scratch or break, they are mine and they have claws, that's it.

If the options are as the title says 'declaw or no cat', I'd honestly say no cat.
If you do get the kitten, let him/her stay with the mother until he/she is 12 weeks old, it's very important for the kitten so it'll learn from the mother and siblings what is ok and what's not for example when playing (no biting and scratching, atleast too hard).
Start clipping it's claws so it gets used to it (it's easy if started early), and if he/she doesn't seem to understand what the scratching tree is for, you can show him what he's supposed to do with it.
I have no experience with Soft Paws (none of my cats have ever had inappropriate scratching problems) but I'd try those also if needed.

There is some excellent information in this article
http://www.laziblues.com/articles_facts.html

Personally, I very much appreciate this part

The Cat's Claws

Unlike most mammals who walk on the soles of the paws or feet, cats are digitigrades, which means they walk on their toes. Their back, shoulder, paw and leg joints, muscles, tendons, ligaments and nerves are naturally designed to support and distribute the cat's weight across its toes as it walks, runs and climbs. A cat's claws are used for balance, for exercising, and for stretching the muscles in their legs, back, shoulders, and paws. They stretch these muscles by digging their claws into a surface and pulling back against their own clawhold - similar to isometric exercising for humans. This is the only way a cat can exercise, stretch and tone the muscles of its back and shoulders. The toes help the foot meet the ground at a precise angle to keep the leg, shoulder and back muscles and joints in proper alignment. Removal of the last digits of the toes drastically alters the conformation of their feet and causes the feet to meet the ground at an unnatural angle that can cause back pain similar to that in humans caused by wearing improper shoes.

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Then there is this

Many vets and clinic staff deliberately misinform and mislead clients into believing that declawing removes only the claws in the hopes that clients are left with the impression that the procedure is a "minor" surgery comparable to spay/neuter procedures and certainly doesn't involve amputation (partial or complete) of the terminal-toe bone, ligaments and tendons. Some vets rationalize the above description by saying that since the claw and the third phalanx (terminal toe bone) are so firmly connected, they simply use the expression "the claw" to make it simpler for clients to "understand". Other vets are somewhat more honest and state that if they used the word "amputation", most clients would not have the surgery performed! Onychectomy in the clinical definition involves either the partial or total amputation of the terminal bone. That is the only method. What differs from vet to vet is the type of cutting tool used (guillotine-type cutter, scalpel or laser).

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And this

"Declawing is actually an amputation of the last joint of your cat's "toes". When you envision that, it becomes clear why declawing is not a humane act. It is a painful surgery, with a painful recovery period. And remember that during the time of recuperation from the surgery your cat would still have to use its feet to walk, jump, and scratch in its litter box regardless of the pain it is experiencing."

Christianne Schelling, DVM

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Of course, the rest of the article is not any less valuable, all in all, it is great information.

OK this is what will probably happen (some of this has already been decided and won't be changed):

1-We are getting a cat

2- The cat will come from a farm and I have already seen the cat I would like (she is the runt of the litter, a tuxedo cat with white paws hence the name 'Mittens')

3- I will get the cat on July 17th (I know it will only be 8 weeks old and I have heard you should wait longer be the owner of the farm says she has given away countless kittens to friends and family and says never once has there been a problem with them being a little younger)

4- I will do everything in my power to try and train the cat to use a scratching post and steer clear of the furniture (something I think is entirely possible based on most people who have cats with claws)

5- The cat will NEVER end up in a shelter or on the streets (if it is no longer feasible to continue to own the cat, we know a lot of people who would take it and give it a great home like ours)

6- The cat will be loved and treated with the upmost respect

Sorry if I sound a little stressed out. I have my road test in a couple of hours and I'm very nervous