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Glossy chocolate-brown?

post #1 of 22
7/3/11 at 8:25pm
Thread Starter 
Hi there.

I've been an avid watcher of this forum for a while but have only recently registered as I'm curious about my young tom, Sam.

He's 8 months old and after a few health scares he's coming along really well (he's tiny for a tom! but healthy!)

I got him from a pet shop near where I live in the UK which is normally a no-no around here but once I saw him all by himself I couldn't leave him!

Anyway, the reason I'm posting is because a few people have commented on his shape and colouring, that it doesn't look the same as a domestic British shorthair. I've had 9 cats to date with sadly only two still with me and I've not come across a so called 'moggy' with his glossy chocolate-brown colouring.

Anyone with more experience in cat colours/breeds fill me in?

Thanks!



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post #2 of 22
7/3/11 at 8:32pm
It looks to me like you have a Havana Brown.. O__O
http://animal.discovery.com/videos/c...ana-brown.html

P.s. i dont know why the main cat they show has a smooshed in nose because that is not typical of the breed.
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post #3 of 22
7/3/11 at 8:40pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks for your reply,

I wondered at the first cat! The kittens that followed however were identical to Sam when I first got him.

I had no idea what a havana brown cat was, or that it existed! Just had a look on wikipedia though and funnily enough the example picture on there is pretty much I guess an older version of Sam.

Are they common around the UK?

Edit: just had a look on the cat 101 piece all about havana browns and Sam fits with most of what they've written, especially the strong personality, brown whiskers, carrying things around in his mouth and almost treasuring certain things--quite dog-like, dare I say--he also hides things and is very, very vocal.

Got another picture too

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post #4 of 22
7/3/11 at 9:32pm
Havanna's are very rare; considered an 'endangered' breed even. You have a valuable treasure on your hands.
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post #5 of 22
7/3/11 at 9:42pm
Thread Starter 
endangered!?

He seems too happy to be endangered ! Seriously though, how come they're considered endangered?

I love him to bits whatever breed he is, I've never met a cat like him, he appears more intelligent than me :P
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post #6 of 22
7/3/11 at 10:00pm
Because there are very few breeders and even fewer Havana's out there.
From Wikipedia: It is considered an endangered breed, since the breeding pool is very small. In the late 1990s, there were only 12 Cat Fanciers' Association-registered Havana Brown catteries and under 130 unaltered cats.
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post #7 of 22
7/3/11 at 11:25pm
Gorgeous kitty
IMHO Sam is a Brown Domestic Short Hair - a very special and beautiful one... But a Brown Cat doesn't make a Havana Brown... Those are extremely rare cats, and I do not see it in him... The shape of the head doesn't match the strong features of the HB, nor he seems to have the green eyes...

Here is a short description of the breed - you can see the Breed's pictures in there too.
Quote:
What makes a Havana Brown unique? The first thing an admirer notices is the glistening mahogany-toned glossy brown coat. The coat is smooth, lustrous, closelying and feels like a luxurious mink. A rich, evenly colored shade of warm chocolate brown tending more to redbrown is desirable. Their other incomparable feature is the distinctive head that is slightly longer than it is wide. In profile, the prominent broad nose has a definite stop at the eyes. A pronounced whisker pinch combined with the strong square chin forms a somewhat rounded muzzle. Viewed from above or felt with the fingertips, the pronounced break in the bone structure behind each whisker pad is evident in good specimens. The enticing green, oval-shaped eyes in combination with large, forward tilted ears contribute to their alert sweet expression.
http://www.cfa.org/client/breedHavanaBrown.aspx
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post #8 of 22
7/4/11 at 12:06am
Problem is, the only cats that come in brown are the Havana Brown, Burmese and Chestnut Oriental Shorthair. Mixed breeds do not come in brown. Also, I've seen the photos of breed standard and her cat seems to fit perfectly.
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post #9 of 22
7/4/11 at 12:18am
He's not a Havana Brown, he's a domestic.

Many black moggies have a brown sheen to their coats.
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post #10 of 22
7/4/11 at 12:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minka View Post
Problem is, the only cats that come in brown are the Havana Brown, Burmese and Chestnut Oriental Shorthair. Mixed breeds do not come in brown. Also, I've seen the photos of breed standard and her cat seems to fit perfectly.
Yes they do, there was just one here, recently at TCS. And no, he doesn't fit the standard... His head doesn't nor his eyes, which are yellow, and not green.
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post #11 of 22
7/4/11 at 12:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minka View Post
Problem is, the only cats that come in brown are the Havana Brown, Burmese and Chestnut Oriental Shorthair.
British shorthair, European shorthair, devon rex, cornish rex, persians/exotics, munchkins, selkirks, la perms.........and others all come in brown & chocolate
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post #12 of 22
7/4/11 at 12:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by missymotus View Post
He's not a Havana Brown, he's a domestic.

Many black moggies have a brown sheen to their coats.
This is more than a brown sheen though.


If it were me, I'd take him to a show to be evaluated.
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post #13 of 22
7/4/11 at 1:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCassells View Post
Anyway, the reason I'm posting is because a few people have commented on his shape and colouring, that it doesn't look the same as a domestic British shorthair. I've had 9 cats to date with sadly only two still with me and I've not come across a so called 'moggy' with his glossy chocolate-brown colouring.
Well I can tell you for sure that he is not a British Shorthair, as you can see from the pics I have next to my name (ignore the foldie), Brits look very different than your cat.

He is very likely a black or chocolate domestic shorthair, a moggy. I would need to see better pics taken in a natural light to determine if he's just a faded black or chocolate. I can't see Havana Brown in him either. If the cat is chocolate, it will very likely have chocolate whiskers as well. Chocolate is not restricted to Havana Browns as was pointed out earlier.

I have to say I miss the times when more breeders/people who actually knew what they were talking about were giving answers here.. I want to smash my computer when I read "It must be a maine coon because it has an M on the forehead, they said so in tv"-comments..
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post #14 of 22
7/4/11 at 1:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by missymotus View Post
British shorthair, European shorthair, devon rex, cornish rex, persians/exotics, munchkins, selkirks, la perms.........and others all come in brown & chocolate
Not European Shorthair. Chocolate is a sign of hybridization and thus not allowed (but brown tabbies of course are as they are genetically black and not chocolate).
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post #15 of 22
7/4/11 at 1:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernGlow View Post

I have to say I miss the times when more breeders/people who actually knew what they were talking about were giving answers here.
Some left for more breeder friendly places, I see several others around somewhere else



Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernGlow View Post
Not European Shorthair. Chocolate is a sign of hybridization and thus not allowed (but brown tabbies of course are as they are genetically black and not chocolate).
I stand corrected I took a description of any colour, to mean any lol But I just looked at the fife standard and you are correct.
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post #16 of 22
7/4/11 at 2:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by missymotus View Post
Some left for more breeder friendly places, I see several others around somewhere else

I'd be too newbie to those places I'm sure (has happened before) But it would be nice to have more 'pedigree kitty' owners here to share their knowledge.


I stand corrected I took a description of any colour, to mean any lol But I just looked at the fife standard and you are correct.
Kuura's breeder breeds also Europeans so I've had my share of checking them out a bit more, and they are not rare around here either so they are well represented at shows.
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post #17 of 22
7/4/11 at 2:14am
Thread Starter 
Thankyou for all your replies

I'm glad to have killed some curiosity!

I've told my partner that he's definitely a moggy (I meant to say domestic rather than shorthair in an earlier post!) She's still certain there's something else to our Sam due to the shape of his face.

The pictures were all taken next to the window with no other light than sunlight, but I can take another if it would help
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post #18 of 22
7/4/11 at 5:35pm
Then the easiest way to determine the color is probably to check the color of paw pads: if they are black or dark brown he's black, if they are cinnamon/rose pink he's chocolate.
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post #19 of 22
7/6/11 at 1:28pm
I have a domestic short haired chocolate kitty too. You can see her pics in the breeder corner forum under "brown mystery kitten". Mine is as brown as brown can be, even her lips and nose and whiskers are brown. She has green eyes, and is really gorgeous and unique looking. But she's just a little domestic mutt kitty from the shelter.... Havana brown are cool, and I would love to have one, but from what I've learned there is about a 0% chance of one just wandering around or showing up on the streets or in shelters.
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post #20 of 22
7/15/11 at 4:49pm
To me he looks like a faded black rather than true brown. Does he sit in the sun a lot? The diet can also sometimes cause a black cat to turn red/brown.
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post #21 of 22
7/16/11 at 8:46am
He is absolutely beautiful. My Ellie, though 'black', is chocolate in certain lights. But she has black paw pads and whiskers, so is genetically black.
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post #22 of 22
7/20/11 at 9:57pm
I'm sorry, I can't be of any help identifying the breed of cat but I just want to say that HE IS SUPER BEAUTIFUL!
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