TheCatSite.com › Forums › Our Feline Companions › Cat Health › New Kitten, BAD diarrhea NEG labs
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

New Kitten, BAD diarrhea NEG labs

post #1 of 29
7/1/11 at 8:38pm
Thread Starter 
I brought home a new kitten last week. Best I can tell it was 4 weeks old, now in it's 5th week. I have no idea where the mother is/was. I went to the feed store for chicken feed and this little guy was there all alone starring at me.

I will try to give a little patient abstract:
Jacob: 5 weeks old, male, American short hair, 1.09 lbs at arrival, 1.19 lbs as of 7-01, solid stool initially, diarrhea for 5 days, fecal incontinence for last day, watery/mucus stool dark yellow in color as of 7-01, VERY playful/active with other adult cats, NEG fecal labs as of 6-30(DVM said sample kinda sucked), rectal prolapse for 3 days.

Diet:
Started with dry kitten food, was given adult canned food for first few days, now withholding can food due to diarrhea, KMR formula every 2-3 hours, drinks water fairly well, will NOT eat cottage cheese/rice(DVM recommendation), withholding ALL food to rest bowel since 7-01 @ 530pm.

Meds:
1 cc Kaopectate PO 7-01 @ 530p, withholding Kaopectate due to new cat unfriendly formula, 15 cc RL SQ 7-01 @ 2230(did NOT like that).

I plan on giving KMR with Pedialyte after the bowel rest. We planned on doing a 24 hour fast BUT Jacob is quite insistent that we feed him, so I dunno. I also plan on giving him plain yogurt after the rest. He will NOT take a bottle but does lap up his food just fine. Seems like the little guy has been on his own for a long time.

My gut instinct is telling me that Jacob has coccidia. The labs were negative BUT the sample was not ideal and coccidia is hard to catch. My DVM is my chicken vet, she did the lab as a favor. I have a bottle of amprolium sitting right here just calling my name. I also think he could use a wormer. I have equimax on hand that my adult cats get.

It is thought that Jacob vomited last night, appeared to be the cottage cheese mixture. Other than that he seems very happy. He runs all over the two story house playing with his older brothers. His older sister is still a little put off by him, she is after all surrounded by boys.

I dont want to start pumping a sick 1.19 lb kitten full of meds. I hope to give him his first bath to clean the stool off of him. I also want to put some preparation H on that sore little butt. Any thoughts? Would you do anything different?

Thanks
Reply
post #2 of 29
7/1/11 at 8:40pm
Contact Carolina as she has extensive experience with treating diarrhea. Also, have your vet retest for coccidia and tritrichemonas foetus.
Reply
post #3 of 29
7/1/11 at 8:56pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stephanietx View Post
Contact Carolina as she has extensive experience with treating diarrhea. Also, have your vet retest for coccidia and tritrichemonas foetus.
She mentioned something about getting a better stool catch, one without litter

They are all out of the office till the 5th. As long as I keep giving fluids I think we will be ok till Tuesday.

Carolina you say? Thanks
Reply
post #4 of 29
7/1/11 at 10:11pm
Hi, I am by no means an expert, but yes, been dealing with diarrhea here for quite a while
I think there could be several issues going on... The first thing it comes to mind, is that this is a weaning kitten's diarrhea - I would go first thing tomorrow morning to petsmart or Petco or another pet supply - and pick up some tubes of Bene-Bac. Bene-Bac is a probiotic that works wonderfully for that. You will find it in the small pets isle (ferrets, hamsters, etc - it is the same as cats and dogs - just make sure it reads mammals)
Instead of Kaopectane, I would give DiaGel here is where I buy: http://www.revivalanimal.com/store/p/2561-DiaGel.aspx
A couple of doses should do the trick. Stress and worms could be helping the situation too, but I think diet primarily...

I think this should do it.... Deworming should be done by your vet only....
I would really not worry about T. Foetus for now.... Not for a while - especially since he had solid stool initially. I really do think this comes from an abrupt diet change/weaning straight into dry kitten food, canned, etc. This can cause a lot of tummy problems....
Ben-bac and DiaGel should do the trick IMHO.... Good luck!!
Reply
post #5 of 29
7/2/11 at 8:08am
Where are you located? There are some places (Australia, for example) that have an effective cure for coccidia. It's called Baycox, by Bayer, and it IS available in the U.S., but only for...yes, you guessed it...chickens!
Reply
post #6 of 29
7/2/11 at 8:28pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolina View Post
Bene-Bac is a probioti... I would give DiaGel here is where I buy
Ok I got bene-bac and some cat anti-diarrhea stuff. The DiaGel I would have to get online, as you know.

Tonight we have had 3 episodes of Jacob sitting on a lap or couch only to find out he was "leaking" all over. I have put him in his room for the night to minimize the mess. I don't know if his situation is serious enough for us to try to find a Sunday or holiday(July 4th) vet. He seems well hydrated and is still in good spirits.

His rectal prolapse looks pretty bad, it's stuck out a good half inch. He also drags or "scoots" alone the floor at times. I believe I noticed some pink in with the "stuff" that is leaking from his rear.
Reply
post #7 of 29
7/2/11 at 8:31pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblanche View Post
Where are you located? There are some places (Australia, for example) that have an effective cure for coccidia. It's called Baycox, by Bayer, and it IS available in the U.S., but only for...yes, you guessed it...chickens!
I am in the US, Indiana to be specific. The amprolium I have here is an antibiotic used to treat coccidia. You don't find many people using it for cats, but it can be used. The trade name is Corid. Thanks
Reply
post #8 of 29
7/2/11 at 8:55pm
I'd be concerned about the exposed rectal tissue drying out. K-Y jelly would be good for keeping the tissues lubricated.
Reply
post #9 of 29
7/2/11 at 9:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashedd View Post
I am in the US, Indiana to be specific. The amprolium I have here is an antibiotic used to treat coccidia. You don't find many people using it for cats, but it can be used. The trade name is Corid. Thanks
I would never self-medicate a cat, especially a kitten.... Can be pretty dangerous.
For Bugsy's bottom, my vet gave him a powder called Neo-predef. It works like magic. It has antibiotic, anti-inflammatory and pain relieving properties. Highly recommend it.
The pink is probably from his little bottom, that is raw
Reply
post #10 of 29
7/2/11 at 9:06pm
Thread Starter 
We have mucus and now blood in the stool. Add to that my strong intuition that he has coccidia... if I can find a correct dosage for kittens he might just get it.

I had a chicken that was at deaths door, she weighed 1.5 lbs. Her breed normally weighs 5+ lbs. She tested positive for coccidia, her stool had the mucus and blood too. Once I dosed her with the antibiotics she started having normal bowel movements two days later. Now she weighs just at 5 lbs and lives outside again. Unlike the other drugs used for coccidia, the Corid is strong stuff. It does the job very well.

My DVM originally said there would be no harm in giving him antibiotics. If his stool is the same in the morning and I can find a dosage, I think he will get the meds tomorrow.
Reply
post #11 of 29
7/2/11 at 9:07pm
When did you first give him the bene-bac?
Reply
post #12 of 29
7/2/11 at 9:09pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolina View Post
When did you first give him the bene-bac?
About 8pm, 4 hours ago. I have a sheet on his door that I track what his input is... but I think it was around 8.
Reply
post #13 of 29
7/2/11 at 9:10pm
I found this information on-line -

Sulfadimethoxine is considered the best treatment for most animals with coccidia and should be administered at 50 mg/kg orally the first day and then 25 mg/kg orally per day for 21 days. (2) The cost is about $.05 per day for a two-pound kitten.

Trimethoprim-sulfa is another option and should be administered at 30-60 mg/kg/day for 10 days. (3) The cost is about $.03 per day for a two-pound kitten.

Amprolium (Corid) is available as a 9.6% solution and a 20% powder. Cats must receive it directly at 60 to 100 mg daily for seven days. The treatment can be given to dogs in a number of ways: The 9.6% solution can be added to water at a rate of 30 ml/gallon of water; this solution is used as the sole source of drinking water for the dog(s) for 10 days. Or, the 20% powder can be added to food at the rate of 250 to 300 mg total dose per dog once a day for seven to twelve days. (4) Neither the powder nor the solution is especially palatable, so administration can be difficult. The cost is about $.02 per day for a two-pound kitten.
Reply
post #14 of 29
7/2/11 at 9:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashedd View Post
We have mucus and now blood in the stool. Add to that my strong intuition that he has coccidia... if I can find a correct dosage for kittens he might just get it.

I had a chicken that was at deaths door, she weighed 1.5 lbs. Her breed normally weighs 5+ lbs. She tested positive for coccidia, her stool had the mucus and blood too. Once I dosed her with the antibiotics she started having normal bowel movements two days later. Now she weighs just at 5 lbs and lives outside again. Unlike the other drugs used for coccidia, the Corid is strong stuff. It does the job very well.

My DVM originally said there would be no harm in giving him antibiotics. If his stool is the same in the morning and I can find a dosage, I think he will get the meds tomorrow.
Thing is, cats process drugs much differently than other animals - what is safe for some, a lot of times can be lethal for cats. This is a tiny tiny kitten...
His bottom is raw - you will see blood.
Blood in the stool in cats, make the stool black or tar in color - when you see fresh blood, it is usually from the tissue that has open vessels - it is probably from this prolapse.
Mucus IS normal/common in cat's diarrhea.

Something else: your cat came to you with solid stools. It went through an abrupt change of diet - not once, but twice, plus weaning. It is a 4-5 week kitten... Coccidia tested negative...
This is risky business - at least wait until tomorrow for you to talk to a vet. A kitten like this can die from medicine...
Reply
post #15 of 29
7/2/11 at 9:20pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catapault View Post

Amprolium (Corid) is available as a 9.6% solution and a 20% powder. Cats must receive it directly at 60 to 100 mg daily for seven days. The treatment can be given to dogs in a number of ways: The 9.6% solution can be added to water at a rate of 30 ml/gallon of water; this solution is used as the sole source of drinking water for the dog(s) for 10 days.
Problem is I don't understand the wording. It would indicate that a cat gets 60-100 mg PO(by mouth). I have not done the math but a 9.6 solution at 60-100mg seems like way too much to squirt down a cats mouth. Corid is normally mixed with the drinking water.

I will give him some time to respond to the current treatments. But he has had NOTHING but either KMR/water or KMR/pedialyte for 3 days, besides all the fun meds. Seems like at the very least the diarrhea would have stabilized by now. Instead, it's getting worse(more mucus, incontinence).

Thanks for all the help, I appreciate it.
Reply
post #16 of 29
7/2/11 at 9:28pm
Sometimes Google is our friend. I also found people saying that the taste is really bad. Cats foam and spit it out. One suggestion was to slurry canned food, add medication to small amount and syringe feed.

Amprolium

Chemical group: thiamine analog

Trade names: Corid, Amprol

Mode of action: thiamine analog, competitively inhibits the active transport of thiamine. The coccidia are 50 times as sensitive to this inhibition as is the host.

Pharmacokinetics: Freely soluble in water.

Dose: In dogs and cats: "extra label use": 300 to 400 mg/kg, SID for 5 days or 110 to 220 mg/kg SID for 7 to 12 days.

In chickens: For prevention of coccidiosis: 36.3 - 113.5 g/ton in the feed or in the drinking water at 0.012%. No withdrawal is needed.

Toxicity: May cause thiamine deficiency if given at high rates.

Parasite Targets: Isospora in dogs and cats, Eimeria in cattle and poultry.

Selected references: Lindsy and Blagburn, (1995), Chap. 47, Antiprotozoan drugs. IN: Veterinary Pharmacology and Therapeutics, ( pg. 975), H. Richard Adams (ed). Iowa State Press, Ames, Iowa.



© University of Pennsylvania 2004

Comments or Questions please contact: Dr. Nolan at:
Reply
post #17 of 29
7/2/11 at 9:37pm
I see the vet's e-mail did not copy. It is

parasit@vet.upenn.edu
Reply
post #18 of 29
7/2/11 at 9:38pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catapault View Post
. Cats foam and spit it out. One suggestion was to slurry canned food, add medication to small amount and syringe feed.

Dose: In dogs and cats: "extra label use": 300 to 400 mg/kg, SID for 5 days or 110 to 220 mg/kg SID for 7 to 12 days.

Toxicity: May cause thiamine deficiency if given at high rates.
Looks like the math says there is 96 mg of amprolium in every 1 mL. So roughly 3-4 mL a dose. The toxicity shows that it's pretty safe stuff.
Reply
post #19 of 29
7/2/11 at 9:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashedd View Post
Problem is I don't understand the wording. It would indicate that a cat gets 60-100 mg PO(by mouth). I have not done the math but a 9.6 solution at 60-100mg seems like way too much to squirt down a cats mouth. Corid is normally mixed with the drinking water.

I will give him some time to respond to the current treatments. But he has had NOTHING but either KMR/water or KMR/pedialyte for 3 days, besides all the fun meds. Seems like at the very least the diarrhea would have stabilized by now. Instead, it's getting worse(more mucus, incontinence).

Thanks for all the help, I appreciate it.
ashedd, with food changes, especially when introducing/changing kibbles, you can have diarrhea for up to 2 weeks. By reading your posts, I saw the very first thing this tiny kitten got was kibbles then adult canned food. This kitten was probably breast-feeding before. This is a very drastic change. That's why he got there with solid poop then he started the diarrhea.
The best thing you can do for him, really, is give him Bene-Bac and DiaGel - BenBac is made for this. Give him the dose for weaning kittens that says on the little tubes. Keep him hydrated and continue on KMR. then you can start adding a bit of canned kitten food to his diet when he gets better. DiaGel stops diarrhea immediately.
A lot of antibiotcis have diarrhea as a side effect - you want to have a 100% positive test before putting him through that.... Give some time for the probiotics to work.... If he gets lethargic, stops feeding, seems dehydrated, take him to the vet immediately....
Reply
post #20 of 29
7/2/11 at 9:46pm
Thread Starter 
Doesn't look like I can get DiaGel locally. I wonder if a DVM would sell it to me. Already paid $8.00 for a single 25 gauge butterfly
Buy them by the case and they are like less than a dollar a piece.

I will hold off on the Corid. But it is nice to know the dosage. IF he starts looking grim, I will get another lab. I guess Coccidia is easy to miss in labs.
Reply
post #21 of 29
7/2/11 at 9:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashedd View Post
Doesn't look like I can get DiaGel locally. Alot of vets do have it, if not they can order it for you. Getting online might be faster though. I wonder if a DVM would sell it to me. Already paid $8.00 for a single 25 gauge butterfly
Buy them by the case and they are like less than a dollar a piece.

I will hold off on the Corid. But it is nice to know the dosage. IF he starts looking grim, I will get another lab. I guess Coccidia is easy to miss in labs.
For the Corid, ask your vet for the dosage. Your vet can get a fresh sample directly from kitty's bottom. Those are the best samples. IMHO you are doing the right thing holding off, at least until you talk to the vet...
Reply
post #22 of 29
7/2/11 at 10:08pm
ashedd, when the kitten is well again and ready to be weaned, here are some tips on how to do it safely:
http://www.kitten-rescue.com/weaning.html
For now formula only is good... Canned pumpkin (plain, not sweetened - usually found in the supermarket baking isle) can be added to the formula to help with the fiber content to firm up his poop.
Reply
post #23 of 29
7/3/11 at 1:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catapault View Post
Sometimes Google is our friend.
While Google is excellent, we at TCS don't advise going for any online advice when it comes to the health of any animal.

TCS Rule

1. No online advice can replace direct veterinary intervention. If you suspect that your cat may be ill, please contact your vet immediately. You are welcome to look for advice in the health forum while waiting for that appointment, but never delay proper veterinary care waiting for Internet advice. Remember that cats, and especially kittens, are very adept in keeping pain to themselves and delaying treatment may cause irreversible damage.
Reply
post #24 of 29
7/3/11 at 8:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolina View Post
ashedd, when the kitten is well again and ready to be weaned, here are some tips on how to do it safely:
http://www.kitten-rescue.com/weaning.html
For now formula only is good... Canned pumpkin (plain, not sweetened - usually found in the supermarket baking isle) can be added to the formula to help with the fiber content to firm up his poop.
Carolina, here in Canada the pie filling (sweetened and spiced) is found in the baking aisle and that is NOT what you want to use. In the canned vegetable and fruit section you will find plain pureed pumpkin.

From reading your posts, I'm afraid you are going to kill your kitten. Please, please do not medicate your kitten using information from the internet. Please do see your vet.
Reply
post #25 of 29
7/3/11 at 9:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post
Carolina, here in Canada the pie filling (sweetened and spiced) is found in the baking aisle and that is NOT what you want to use. In the canned vegetable and fruit section you will find plain pureed pumpkin.

From reading your posts, I'm afraid you are going to kill your kitten. Please, please do not medicate your kitten using information from the internet. Please do see your vet.
Hi Yosemite, not here.... I know it makes no sense, right? But when it is off season, the only place we seem to find here is on the baking isle. Apparently it is because there is a brand, called Libby's, that has a very famous pumpkin pie recipe on the can - so people look for it in there, by the pie crust. It is the only place we seem to find most of the year... And yes, it is the plain ones, 100% pure. I was never able to find in the vegetable isle...
Reply
post #26 of 29
7/3/11 at 9:31am
ashedd: just a quick note - the probiotic Bene-Bac can be given everyday... I know the package says day 1,3,5,7.... But it is the same dosage as other kitten probiotics, and ok to give daily....
I hope he is doing better....
Keep hydrating him, feeding KMR and on probiotics... If he gets worst, take to the ER. For the little bottom, a little tiny bit of neosporin (without the pain medicine, the original Neosporin) can be used, until you get Neo-Predef from the vet (SO much better!!!)
And like the others said too.... please please don't medicate your kitten without the vet
Reply
post #27 of 29
7/6/11 at 5:21pm
ashedd, is the kitten doing ok? I really don't like when little kittens are so sick then there is no follow ups like this... Gives me a bad bad feeling... I hope he is alright!
Reply
post #28 of 29
7/6/11 at 7:18pm
Thread Starter 
I was going to post something.

He is well. We had a talk with another "cat" person and came to some conclusions. He came to me on dry food, it was only after reading the internet that I decided to give him KMR. Then I decided to give him adult wet food, for some reason. His diarrhea got worse once he was on straight KMR... so we did a quick ween(2 day) back to dry kitten food. He now eats only dry food with a little pedialyte, he continues to drink water on his own.

His stool is now firm(ish) and dark. He is no longer incontinent and his rectal prolapse has healed itself. Todays poop was even semi formed. He never had low energy, but in the past couple days he has been nonstop crazy.

So I guess, even though he was about 4 weeks old when we got him... he was weened already. Once he is back to normal I will start giving him infant vitamins in his water for awhile.

If only I can keep his big brother(Jasper) out of his kitten kibble.

Thanks for the help.
Reply
post #29 of 29
7/6/11 at 7:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashedd View Post
I was going to post something.

He is well. We had a talk with another "cat" person and came to some conclusions. He came to me on dry food, it was only after reading the internet that I decided to give him KMR. Then I decided to give him adult wet food, for some reason. His diarrhea got worse once he was on straight KMR... so we did a quick ween(2 day) back to dry kitten food. He now eats only dry food with a little pedialyte, he continues to drink water on his own.

His stool is now firm(ish) and dark. He is no longer incontinent and his rectal prolapse has healed itself. Todays poop was even semi formed. He never had low energy, but in the past couple days he has been nonstop crazy.

So I guess, even though he was about 4 weeks old when we got him... he was weened already. Once he is back to normal I will start giving him infant vitamins in his water for awhile.

If only I can keep his big brother(Jasper) out of his kitten kibble.

Thanks for the help.
Oh, thank God!!! Best news ever!!! I would just keep him on Bene-Bac for a while longer - Bene-Bac really makes a huge difference... Changing dry foods, even brands, need to be done very slowly.... So it could been just the switch from one to another. Oh, I am so relieved!!!
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Cat Health
TheCatSite.com › Forums › Our Feline Companions › Cat Health › New Kitten, BAD diarrhea NEG labs