Help! Dog person trying to help friendly stray momma & kittens

Stefan, it seems possible to me.

Nigelguy, just wanted to say thanks for taking on these cats despite the dogs and such until the foster home opens up the space for them!

Stefan, I thought of the same thing . Good idea. Maybe the kittens should be loose in the room with mom. Worth a try she might not be so protective then. And now she should be recovered from her spay and will be able to manage the kittens.

I guess I need to answer a couple of questions.

Stefan asked why I had the kittens separated from Phoebe and how old are they. Well, at this point we are guessing that they are now between 12-14 weeks old (because I have had them at my house about a week and before that we thought 10-12 weeks old before we caught them). So, they are separated because all Phoebe did was hiss and growl at the kittens when we put them together. Could have been her recovering from being spayed, or the hormones or whatever, but they were apart for a full week before we could put them back together. When they got here at my house again, hissing and growling. I have a very limited area to put them, so for safety, she was outside and they were inside the crate. No more hissing and growling, but if I turned the kittens loose in my room I would never catch them again, so they are in the crate.

But I had a lady who does fostering and has adopted some ferals come over to evaluate everyone. Interesting development:
Phoebe let Sue hold her and pet and love on her. Phoebe backed off and let Sue get into the cage, pick up each one of the kittens, handle them all, pet and love of them all and she was laying down, belly exposed just calmly watching. Never a hiss, a growl or anything. The only sound Phoebe made was when Sue tried to pet her while she was eating. Sue and I then changed places with me in front of the cage with a spoonful of baby-food for the kittens. Phoebe IMMEDIATELY got up, stretched and came right over....she began to growl at me. Sue was very surprised!

I think that it is entirely me that she does not want to be messing with the kittens. She will let both my neighbors, Sue, Barbara all handle her and the kittens, but she does not want me in there. She is only tolerating me in the crate to put down the food and clean the litter box.

Ideas????

Interesting other can freely access the kittens, but you only barely.
But it can be quite simple. They are used with cats, Sue certainly is. And you not.
At exhibitions/shows, it is wellknown it is often a big advantage if an assistent bears forward the cat to the judge, not the owner. Unless the owner is very experienced breeder. Because the assistent is almost always an experienced cat person, the owner is usually an amateur, having this cat as family pet.
Im sure such is also in the dog world.


About the kittens.
I understand it is much easier to have the kittens in a cage, but still, somthing in this isnt not optimal. 14 weeks kittens in a cage?
You are the pilot here, so you must make all the essential decisions. But:

I want almost to plead you do change your mind. Please.



(About the initial hissing of mom after the spaying. After it she got lethargic no? so it shows she must have got an infection, and the wound was surely hurting when touched. This is why she was hissing at them. In THIS situation it was necessary to separate them, yes. Although I would perhaps put the mom into the cage, and let the kittens roam the room.)


Good luck!

If mother cat did see that you put kittens to cage, she might get funny ideas about that one too.

I have found out that when my cats want something they come to rub their head against me, but it is not necessarily that they want something when they do it, now I'm thinking that maybe your mother cat is trying to get you to set kittens free to room?

There are many other reasons of course, sometimes it might be something else that she has connected to you and is afraid that such happens to kittens, they do look things bit differently.

My mother cat is still hissing and growling to kittens, if they get near to her, but it is sometimes only now, at beginning she did not recognize kittens at all as they were separated bit of time plus neutering and spaying changes how they smell, so it took time but they have got it sorted now more or less.

Kittens perhaps feel now safe in cage, so it might be possible to leave door open and let them get know while watching over?

Interesting revelation about Sue and Barbara with Phoebe. I really think that Phoebe just feels your slight nervousness and then reacts.

As for the kittens, I would start leaving the cage door open. The reason Phoebe hissed at them was she was telling them to back off, no more nursing. She will also be hissing/growling at them if they or overly playful with her or irritating her. Don't mind this at all. It is her job to teach them some manners too. Take away all hiding places in that room. If you have a bed in there, can you put the bed on the floor, take away the bed frame? I did this in my foster room so I would be able to socialize any cats and was able to reach and pet them with ease. The kittens might even choose to go in their cage when you come in to feed.

Now, if you don't feel comfortable in letting them out yet, than don't. They will be fine still in cage as this is only temporary anyway, right? Arn't you looking for someone to take the kittens soon? You mentioned your neighbor. More good vibes coming your way today

Sorry for taking so long to repost today has been really busy for me. So far today she has let me do what I needed to do, but with an attitude about it. She isn't happy that I am doing it, but she hasn't swatted at me today. So that is good. So for now I am going in singing and talking my fool head off, partially to give myself something to concentrate on and reduce my nerves but also to let them hear me and get used to a voice. I don't have an extra tv to put in the room, but do you think a radio might help?

Stefan & Jtbo ~ I would LOVE to let these little guys go in my room, but it is my storage room and I have all kinds of shelves and boxes and things in there that they could get into and things that could come down on them if they got to playing in or on the shelves. It is just not feasible at this point to let them have the run of the room safely and because I have stuff in there that they could get into and I wouldn't be able to get them back out of if there decided to hide from me. So, I agree, it is NOT an ideal place for the kittens, but the crate is the largest size crate we could find (it is built for a Great Dane sized dog) and it will have to do until Monday when I can turn them over to my neighbor who is going to let them into a larger room that she has.

PS ~ the kittens are starting to come out and eat in front of me, as long as I am back just a bit from the cage...a step, right?

Again, thanks so much for listening to me, I appreciate all your support!

Harp music is good to calm them down, talk station for getting used to human sounds, just make sure it is very quiet volume, they hear a lot easier than us, so barely audible is quite clear sound for them.

It is great step with kittens, it is very important also to future of them to find trust to human being, great work!

I like to hum sometimes, if it is for persons own nerves or cats, either way or both, such thing helps

A radio would be just fine too. Classical music . I agree that you should not let the kittens out of that crate, especially since they are going to the neighbor on Monday. You have given them a fantastic start and on the right track to becoming friendly, loving cats

Not much has changed with Phoebe except now she just goes to her corner and stays there most of the time that I am in with them all. The kittens are still watching me, and one or two might pop up and walk a little bit out, but not too close. I am truly hoping that my neighbor is going to take them tomorrow night! Keep your fingers crossed. I also think that I might have found a foster home for a couple as well. A lady that helped me with the trapping last night. So I am thinking that splitting them up will be good. Phoebe with maybe 2 kittens and then the other 3 on their own. I am hoping it will work!

I'll let you know how it goes when I finally find out...probably not an update tomorrow because I will be releasing the 7 cats I caught last night and had spayed and neutered. 6 females (some of them looked like they had recently weaned a litter and 1 female got caught with a 4-5 week old kitten in the trap with her) and 1 male. Ugghhhh.....I won't even get up on my soapbox about people abandoning their pets and then feeding and not fixing the ones that are born and left outside!!!

But again, thank you all so much for listening to me, providing suggestions and support for me. I GREATLY appreciate it!

Go ahead and get on that !! It is completely frustrating that there are so many irresponsible cat owners out there in the world. Just makes the rescuers work so much harder. ..... BUT WOW! Just want to commend you highly for your efforts in rescuing all of these cats/kittens. Just fabulous . You are truly a cat champion.

Please do keep us updated ! I really hope that all of the cats/kittens find wonderful new homes, all thanks to you

So, it's been a couple of days but here it is. I was supposed to hand off Phoebe and 2 kittens to a neighbor on Monday. Yes, today is Wed and no, she still had not come by to get them. So I went up there to see what the hold up was. She completely changed her story and said that was never her intention! What?!?!?! (Insert numerous bad words here!)

Ok so back to the drawing board. At least the 3 wildest ones had been placed with a foster for the summer. So, I called them and they said that they would take all 5!!! They now have 5 kittens at their house and I have one confused momma cat. She growls and hisses at me when I go in to feed and clean but as soon as I bend down she comes over purring. Poor baby, I feel so sorry for her. I have no where to put her, so I am letting her go back out to the neighborhood where people know her and will help feed her. I am actually going to try and keep her around my house so I can keep feeding her but also because if I need to release the 2 little wild orange-men, I will put them back near or with Phoebe and I can keep an eye on them all. But at this point I have my window in her room open, with the screen propped open so we will see if she will just jump out the window tonight on her own. I don't really want to put her in a crate to take her outside, she really doesn't trust me enough to let me do that again to her.

So, I will let you all know where we are as the gentling proceeds with the kittens and with keeping Phoebe around. Also good thoughts for our trapping on Friday night!!!!

Thanks, Terri

Not good news about your neighbor . Who knows what went wrong with her . But, GOOD news about the five going to foster. PHEW.. I am sure Phoebe will go out that window tonight and if not, then that means she might want to be an inside kitty and is comfortable and safe in that room. Too bad there was not a foster situation for her. She sounds very, very sweet. At least she is spayed now and will have the safety of your yard and your regular feedings. Let us know how that turns out with Phoebe tonight. And, of course, much luck with trapping on Friday

It is different in different countries, here leaving window open to let cat go outside is against the law and doing so would result facing criminal charges and additional anger of every animal wellfare organization, probably also ban for keep any animals, but as I said countries are different and I'm not saying our country would be right in it's ways, just thought that it would add perspective to this subject to know how things are at other parts of world.

I think that Finland ranks one of the top countries in animal rights legistation and there it is going farther quite soon in future.

Sometimes I think it is overdone, but then I read how middle aged woman puts her cat to washing machine because getting tired of how much it sheds fur, people can be quite crazy.

I think that Phoebe will do fine with regular feeding and if you have own yard please put some shelter there first, just some box is better than no box at all.

JTbo, yeah I think that regulations are different in different countries. They even differ state to state here in the US. Leaving a window or a door open for a cat or a dog is not against the law. We have pet doors specifically for the purpose of letting animals in and out of the house when they want, but I am guessing that is not what your law is meant to discourage. More for helping to keep people from just turning their pets loose on the street is what I am guessing.

Feralvr, you were right. She did go out the window on her own last night. Phoebe has been microchiped, so if by some reason she is picked up her owner (which is the cat rescue lady I work with) will be called and she can be turned over to her. As for letting her go or turning her back onto the street, she will be just fine, I am sure but still a little sad I had no where for her to go. We are in Hawaii where it is 75-85 F year round. This neighborhood is full of old houses that are built up off the ground so she will be living under the house again, just like she was before I picked her up. There are also people in the neighborhood that know her and will help to feed her but I just kinda hope that she will stay around my end of the neighborhood instead of heading back to where she used to live.

Unfortunately (and here is my so you can quit reading now if you want) my neighborhood has a ton of cats, so far I have trapped and fixed about 15 cats between my neighborhood and one other. Another lady caught and fixed 13 a couple of months ago, so like it or not, there is quite a large population of unwanted cats in the area. And those are just the ones that I've caught and kept because they needed to be fixed, not just re-released because they were already fixed. This is a very frustrating problem because it is a combination of people abandoning pets (because they know that there are neighborhoods that will continue to feed the animals when they are left behind) and because people do feed them and then they continue to reproduce and no one bothers to try and do TNR! And to make it worse, we are having to keep our activities fairly quiet because if we make too much noise then the authorities will realize there is an issue and then they will come in and trap and when THEY do it, it is trap and eliminate! I am not really a cat person but that to me just doesn't really seem fair either!!!!!! Ughhh!!!! Ok, so that was waaaaaaaaayyyyyy off the topic of Phoebe and the kittens, so I am sorry, but I needed a rant for a few minutes. Thanks.

As for the gang, I'll keep everyone updated on the progress and pictures once I can get some to post on Petfinder, craigslist, and everywhere else I can think of to post to try and find homes for these little guys before Aug and the fosters go back to college.

Ah, Hawaii, now there you are really having a feral problem, I remember reading of scientific research being done at Mauna Kea, they were trying to find out what is their effect to wildlife, that might lead some changes in there near future if it is found that ferals are causing impact to natural species, which probably is the case.

One friend told me once that there was cat everywhere where he did look, don't know if it really is that bad, but I can imagine their having more litter than anywhere else.

That SB13 of your state is crazy, what were they thinking!?

I did read that Humane society of Hawaii euthanizes 87% of cats they get which turn outs to be 13 000 cats each year, so it is really a lot of cats there are, it is not very big place and that amount of cats is just a fraction what amount of ferals there really are, that is always the case, so it is never ending important work you do.

Reminds me of rabbits in Australia, problem is bit similar, but cat is much more of problem in so many levels, even for person's mind that there will not be easy solution.

I really don't accept killing of cats, but in situation which is there, I don't know, for wildlife's point of view they can endager whole species really, sometimes it is better to pick lesser from two wrongs.

Originally Posted by JTbo

Reminds me of rabbits in Australia, problem is bit similar, but cat is much more of problem in so many levels, even for person's mind that there will not be easy solution.

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They do have lots of legions of feral cats too, so they do have more or less a cat problem too.
Which of course makes the rescuers work troublesome. The TNR others perhaps do understand, but to try and foster these ferales on a regular basis, or save sick small kittens?? Nay.


Sending vibes to rescuers and people with good will, in Australia, Hawaii, and everywhere else! May the Force be with you!

Originally Posted by StefanZ

They do have lots of legions of feral cats too, so they do have more or less a cat problem too.
Which of course makes the rescuers work troublesome. The TNR others perhaps do understand, but to try and foster these ferales on a regular basis, or save sick small kittens?? Nay.


Sending vibes to rescuers and people with good will, in Australia, Hawaii, and everywhere else! May the Force be with you!

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In Australia, they could use cats to hunt rabbits, small ones that is, but it would be too 'difficult' (difficult in people's minds perhaps more than in reality), so there are going to be some issues.

We here are in such position that there can't really be big feral problem in here, our winters make sure only the strongest survive.

At many places authorities should indeed do much more preventive work, it is almost impossible to fix problem on other end. Here one can read almost daily about how someone has been convicted from animal cruelty, that is including abandoning pets, but I don't know if that is really making people think about getting the pet in first place.

But I'm very curious to hear if Phoebe will be around for food

JTbo, the problem of stray/feral cats in Hawaii really is as bad as your friend suggested. It's sad and because people think that it's too expensive to spay and neuter (and because some people think it's cool to have an unneutered male) and because of the mild climate people think their animals will be just fine if they leave them behind, AND it's kitten season year round here so the problem never really goes away. So, yes, it is bad and I'm trying, but sometimes I am not sure that we are getting anywhere.

On a happier note, Miss Phoebe did come back last night. She made her presence known!!! hahahaha I walked outside when I heard her start calling under the kitchen window (just a couple windows down from where she got out) and took her some food. She wanted loving and was rubbing on me so I pet her for a while and showed her where the food was. Then she thought she was going to follow me right back into the house! hahahahaaa My dogs would have LOVED that! But, she hung out on my front porch and under the window calling for quite a long time, so I think she will stick around. What a different cat she is when she doesn't have kittens around her. Almost makes me want to adopt her myself.

The process with the kittens is reportedly good....no bites yesterday and some are being easily handled. So, hopefully pics soon and I'll be posting them!!! If anyone would like a kitten/cat, I have some sweet ones for you!!! hahahaha

First of all, you say you are not a cat person . Your a better cat person than most true cat people . Again, I commend you for your efforts. You are only one person and can only do so much, especially if there are so many cats near you. It is a concern to hear that the authorities will just trap and kill if they find out about all of the cats. Just keep up with what you are doing, you are making a difference. you can get on your anytime, I will join you

I am glad to hear Pheobe is well and I think you DO have a new kitty . What a great place to live, Hawaii, though if you are an outside cat . Wish we had that weather here in Chicago . Good news about the kittens then and glad to hear about the little ones. Oh boy, kittens are so tempting and I want them all. But I can only look and no take Keep updating and good luck with the trappings