Blood in my cat's urine...

jedinat · Jun 20, 2011

Way to take things out of context... Anyways, UTI means INFECTION which is apparently quite rare in an otherwise healthy cat; it's not a catch-all term like FLUTD. (she hasn't been missing the litter box for days btw, as I said)

I do appreciate the encouragement, Feralvr especially for sympathizing lol...

carolina · Jun 20, 2011

Originally Posted by jedinat

Way to take things out of context... Anyways, UTI means INFECTION which is apparently quite rare in an otherwise healthy cat; it's not a catch-all term like FLUTD. (she hasn't been missing the litter box for days btw, as I said)

I do appreciate the encouragement, Feralvr especially for sympathizing lol...

Sorry, but taking what out of context? Where I made a comparison about the pain I felt when I had a bloody UTI and the pain your cat must be feeling? Isn't that the same kind of comparison you made when you said about driving yourself to a clinic 5 minutes away to take care of your pain? With your health insurance?
Your cat has blood in her urine... Your cat misses the litterbox....
Blood in the urine can or not indicate an infection - but it is NOT normal - as I posted, it can indicate many many different (and all painful things, BTW), including an infection. And furthermore - an inflammation, which the symptoms ARE blood in the urine, can very easily turn into an infection due to the open blood vessels - which is why vets do prescribe antibiotics in the majority of the cases where there is blood in the urine.
Are you expecting your cat to tell you "mom, it hurts"? So, she doesn't talk, she doesn't drive, it doesn't hurt? is that it?

Tell me where did I take this out of context?
Speeling out - the point of the first part of my post, is that in that amount of pain, being sick, the stress of the vet is definitely worth it. She has to be seen. Then I went into a list of helpful points that you seem to have ignored...
Your posts indicates that your cat has been in pain and ignored for a long long time.
People here has been telling you this.... but.... Don't want to listen.....
BTW - UTI's are NOT that uncommon......... Not at the least.

jedinat · Jun 21, 2011

My original point was that things could not be summed up as simply as "What would you do if you were peeing blood yourself?" You just looked at my illustration and ran with it in order to make your own point. That's what I mean about taking things out of context.

I am not denying that my cat might very well be in pain, and I AM taking her to the vet. But you can hardly tell me she's in pain any more than she can.

I do not take kindly to being told I'm ignoring my cat when I've been anguishing over this thing for a week, reading reading reading crap online, stressing out, going to various stores buying cat food, getting her a new scratch pad, a water fountain, spending time with her, praying... I just felt REALLY bad about taking her to the vet for some reason. I'm still dreading it right now. I don't really know why, exactly.

carolina · Jun 21, 2011

Originally Posted by jedinat

My original point was that things could not be summed up as simply as "What would you do if you were peeing blood yourself?" You just looked at my illustration and ran with it in order to make your own point. That's what I mean about taking things out of context.

I am not denying that my cat might very well be in pain, and I AM taking her to the vet. But you can hardly tell me she's in pain any more than she can. Look, it is hard to recognize when a cat is in pain... Because by instinct they hide pain... Which is wshy I posted my comment about having an UTI with blood and asking you if you had one - this way you would relate to the pain she had it. Unfortunately cats are notorious for hiding pain, which makes it that much harder to diagnose them

and that much more important to pay attention to the symptoms - such as the ones she is showing you.... The fact that she is not screaming doesn't mean she is not in pain. Cats manifest pain in different ways - missing the litterbox is the #1 sign of urinary tract pain. You sum that up with blood in the urine, then there is no doubt left...

I do not take kindly to being told I'm ignoring my cat when I've been anguishing over this thing for a week, reading reading reading crap online, stressing out, going to various stores buying cat food, getting her a new scratch pad, a water fountain, spending time with her, praying... But read your posts... I can only go by what you write... and what you have been writing is indicating that for some reason you don't want to see what is going on... What concerned me the most, is that this is not the first time this happened... Issues like this can become chronic, and serious. And trust me - I have been there both personally, with my own pain, and with my own cat... it is not something you want to ignore... All these things you are doing, reading online, buying cat food, a scratching pad, a fountain... nothing is going to work without treatment. All of us here are not just saying this to give you a lesson just because.... We are saying from experience, from the heart... We have been there... Our cats have... They have either gotten better, or in some cases they are still going through it Feralvr for example. Some people didn't treat their cats soon enough and lost their cats to it.... We have seen that too

I just felt REALLY bad about taking her to the vet for some reason. Please don't be afraid... It is going to be ok.... No cat is happy going to the vet... it is not fun... we know it, but when they are sick they have to go to get better and we need to be strong enough to make it good by them. We are their voices, the only ones who can do that for them. I have a cat, Bugsy, who has a ton of problems... I also dread taking him to the vet... So many tests, needles, sometimes surgeries... But it has to be done for him to get better, for the pain to go away... He has only me... I am his momma

Your girl is going to be all better... Go tomorrow, and ask for everything - get a urinalysis, make sure to get a culture done already, so you don't need to go back a second time (the culture will show you the right bacteria if any). Get a pain killer for sure, and refuse Metacam - I am almost sure they will push it, but be strong and refuse it. You and her will be fine in no time - you just need to get through this.... Then the food, water fountain, and everything else will help from there on... I'm still dreading it right now. I don't really know why, exactly.

def kitty · Jun 21, 2011

Hi jedinat, I hope the vet appointment goes well for you and the kitty! I know exactly what you're going through because my cat exhibited signs of FLUTD some time ago and at the time I had just enough money to either take him to the vet or to buy him canned food. So I opted for your approach - wait and see and try to get more water into his system, and of course keep an eye on any possible blockage - and I know just how nerve wrecking it was. He didn't want canned either, but I was fortunate in that he likes raw meat, so I put him on a raw meat diet and he's been fine since. Almost 2/3 of FLUTD cases in young, otherwise healthy cats are idiopathic cystitis - all results are fine, but the cat's bladder is inflamed for no apparent reason. Humans get a similar condition and it's called interstitial cystitis. The ONLY treatment for this is water - as much water as possible. No matter how much water your cat drinks she won't get as much water through drinking as she would if she would eat canned food. If she hates canned, will she eat raw? Raw has been a lifesaver for us.

The second leading cause of FLUTD are crystals, and the treatment is pretty much the same - water, and canned food with a high meat content (or a balanced homemade raw diet).

I found these two studies helpful, this one has a nifty little table that shows that cats on dry food don't drink enough water to dilute their urine as much as it's diluted in cats fed canned food

And this one contains an overview of leading causes of FLUTD - it helped me immensely when I made the decisions about feeding my cat. I felt that if the chances are the vet would find it's either idiopathic cystitis or crystals, I would be better off spending that money on quality food instead, as that would be the best treatment in both cases anyway. That said, if I'd had the money, I would have taken him to the vet at least to get some pain medication - having had a UTI myself, I know how horribly painful it can be (and I did my research back then on interstitial cystitis so I knew it was just as much painful as a UTI, inflammation hurts with or without bacterial infection). Some vets will give antibiotics just in case, but as you've found out yourself in vast majority of cases there are no bacteria in urine so the cat needs pain medications, not antibiotics - we're just accustomed to think bladder inflammation = infection, because that's the most common cause in humans.

jedinat · Jun 21, 2011

Great post and great info. Thanks a lot def kitty. Didn't consider raw meat... how did you determine the correct diet?

def kitty · Jun 21, 2011

I had done research about raw feeding before but was hesitant to dive into it until the FLUTD episode happened, so I had the know-how and was able to start him on raw as soon as I realized that canned wouldn't fly with him. I was also very (very!) fortunate that he's such a little predator he will eat raw chicken bones and all kinds of meat chunks, so there was very little work for me there - that's called "frankenpray" diet (scroll down to about the middle of this page for a detailed description). With frankenpray you don't really need to add supplements, but I would add a few just to be on the safe side - like vitamin E, vitamin B/brewer's yeast, some salt and/or some other source of iodine.

That all sounds fairly complicated for a beginner so I will instead suggest this route - commercially prepared minces are recommended on this page, and bellow is a very easy recipe for home-made ground raw cat food. You will need to invest in a grinder and supplements first though, so I would try those commercial minces first to see if your cat will eat it. (The minces are available in the US, but I also have some links if you live in the UK).

Since you don't know how your cat will react to raw, maybe it would be best to try some commercially prepared raw minces first, and also try her on meat chunks (these include muscle meat and also poultry hearts and gizzards), chicken wings, chicken liver and beef or lamb kidney to see if she will eat these. Some cats have a preference for ground raw and some will rather eat chunks and whole bones, so it's best that you test the waters first before you buy a grinder or stack the freezer with meaty bones and meat chunks that she may or may not want to touch!

carolina · Jun 21, 2011

to the OP: please be aware that an unbalanced raw diet can be dangerous for a cat, and has been known to likely be responsible to the death of a young (2 yr old) cat who suffered from Crystals here at TCS.
A raw diet, while a wonderful diet, does not, by any means substitute vet care, and requires a lot of research and preferably vet monitoring.
The owner of the kitty who died had years of experience with raw feeding and was also a breeder - she was by no means new to it.
Please just do not take it lightly... Hope your consult went ok

feralvr · Jun 21, 2011

Jedinat - Just thinking about you and wondering if you were able to successfully get your cat in the crate! BTW - and forgive me if you already posted this

- what is your cat's name?? Anyway, I am anxiously waiting the results in the next two days from Pipsqueak's urine culture. I am worried that it will come back negative

. and I won't have anymore answers. That is the terrible thing about this Idiopathic cystitis... the cause is just unknown.

I have been lucky that Squeak is liking his all wet diet now, finally. It took a couple of weeks to get him going on it. He likes to crunch on dry. So I offer him some Hill's W/D dry at lunchtime and he is happy then. I have also considered adding some raw to his diet, i.e. Nature's Variety. I wouldn't want to prepare my own, just too much work for me but they do make it ready-made with all of the nutrients, vitamins/minerals, etc, already added in. I had to start feeding my old sweet dog some freeze-dried raw patties to get him to eat, he has failing health.

. Anyway, my other cat's seem VERY interested in the freeze-dried patties. You can add alot of water to those too as they are dry, but the cat's seem to want those patties. So, I might start adding some of those from Nature's Variety for cats. But it is very expensive, that is the downside to feeding healthy

.

Well, I hope to see an update from you and hang in there

feralvr · Jun 21, 2011

Originally Posted by Carolina

Get a pain medicine, and be aware of Metacam - they will likely push it; it is an anti-inflammatory, but it is related to Kidney failure and not deemed safe for cats. Per the FDA, there is no dosage safe for cats - not oral or injectable.

Carolina, thanks for mentioning about the Metacam...... I remember you talking about this in some other thread awhile ago. And, I want to also be prepared in case my vet recommends something like that

Important for everyone to know this about Metacam.

jedinat · Jun 21, 2011

Well, my visit to the vet was absolutely horrible. The EASIEST thing was getting her into the crate, lol. This time I had the crate set up sideways in the bathroom with its lid leaning open on one of the drawers... She likes the upstairs bathroom a bit because she likes it when the faucet drips... Anyways I picked her up and walked her up there like I was just going to let her play with the faucet or something... then changed my grip so I had her by the upper body and dropped her legs-first into the crate... the lid snapped shut on her--Viola!

She cried the whole way to the vet and, unbeknownst to me until later, PEED all over herself. So guess what? No pee sample. Another trip to the vet tomorrow or the next day? I don't think so.

She had an awful time of it. A really awful time.

All the vet had to say was everything I had supposed. More than likely it's idiopathic cystitis like def kitty mentioned. Can't really do anything beyond ruling out infection and putting her on a wet diet. Well I'm not bringing her in again. The vet gave me something to collect her urine; I'm going to try to do that and that's as far as I'm going to go with it. I'm just going to make sure she keeps peeing and try my best to get her on wet food.

My cat's name is Neko. (neck-oh) Oh, and I opted to let her clean herself up... dunno if that was the best choice, but I thought hosing her down in her crate would have just been the pinnacle of her wonderful day...

feralvr · Jun 21, 2011

I like that name Neko

. Sorry it was such a bad visit but most visits to the vet with cats are never a pleasant experience for either the cat or the owner. I was able to easily get Squeaks urine sample directly from his stream. He just let's me follow him to the litterbox and I wait until he squats. Most cats will not allow this. But I have been lucky over the years to have been able to obtain urine samples this way from my cats. I hope it works for you with Neko. I looked up and read the two links that Def Kitty posted.

Very, very informative facts about FIC and FLUTD. I really hope you can get Neko on all wet food and add small amounts of water too. Tonight Squeak had a much larger urine clump and I was jumping for joy

I think the all wet diet is kicking in. Plus he is getting some canned Hills C/D now too. You could ask the vet about it. You buy it from the vet. Very good for bladder health and treating FIC through diet. I hope Neko feels better

P.s. I sure hope you wouldn't have hosed her in that crate to clean her of the urine

I am glad you just let her clean herself then. You could pick up some baby wipes and clean her off too and then she might enjoy a brushing.

jedinat · Jun 21, 2011

Well, I would have used the shower nozzle setting, but yeah I knew it wasn't a good idea, lol. (she'd never let me clean her any other way) I think the self cleaning process is still going on, lol. (on my dresser right now--lays for a while, then licks, lays then licks...)

I dunno that following her to the litter box will be successful... doesn't help that her litter box is in the small (as in bend over to get in) closet under the stairs... and her other one further back in the stairs storage space... I was advised to put out an empty litter box/pan for her to pee in, but I don't see how that will work (though I have emptied/cleaned one). Maybe I'll try pulling her litter box out and waiting for her to pee... and hope she doesn't take offense to the company.

I'm going to the feed store tomorrow to get some samples of the really high quality canned food for her... thus far I've only tried all kinds of petsmart and grocery store offerings.

minka · Jun 22, 2011

Originally Posted by jedinat

Well, my visit to the vet was absolutely horrible. The EASIEST thing was getting her into the crate, lol. This time I had the crate set up sideways in the bathroom with its lid leaning open on one of the drawers... She likes the upstairs bathroom a bit because she likes it when the faucet drips... Anyways I picked her up and walked her up there like I was just going to let her play with the faucet or something... then changed my grip so I had her by the upper body and dropped her legs-first into the crate... the lid snapped shut on her--Viola!

She cried the whole way to the vet and, unbeknownst to me until later, PEED all over herself. So guess what? No pee sample. Another trip to the vet tomorrow or the next day? I don't think so.

She had an awful time of it. A really awful time.

All the vet had to say was everything I had supposed. More than likely it's idiopathic cystitis like def kitty mentioned. Can't really do anything beyond ruling out infection and putting her on a wet diet. Well I'm not bringing her in again. The vet gave me something to collect her urine; I'm going to try to do that and that's as far as I'm going to go with it. I'm just going to make sure she keeps peeing and try my best to get her on wet food.

My cat's name is Neko. (neck-oh) Oh, and I opted to let her clean herself up... dunno if that was the best choice, but I thought hosing her down in her crate would have just been the pinnacle of her wonderful day...

Since if the urine tests positive for infection, you'll have to bring her in again, why don't you just have them house her overnight? Then they can get the urine sample without stress on you, and if she pees herself, they can clean her up.

Originally Posted by jedinat

I'm going to the feed store tomorrow to get some samples of the really high quality canned food for her... thus far I've only tried all kinds of petsmart and grocery store offerings.

Would you like any suggestions for wet food since they are not all created equal?

And some advice for getting her to the vet:
To make getting her there easier, you need to make getting in the crate a positive experience. There are several things you can do. If she has a favourite bed or blanket to lay on, place it inside the crate. Leave the crate out so it becomes a normal every day item. Place treats randomly in front of it, for her to find later. Progress by placing one treat inside the crate randomly. Then one treat far back inside the crate. Do this all when she is not looking.
Then when you notice treats disappearing faster, call her to you when you are near the crate. Place a treat near the entrance and encourage her. Then right at the entrance, then farther back, etc. Then when she is almost all the way in, take the door and nudge her in a bit. Don't latch it however. Then when she turns around, open the door, and say Good girl Neko! and treat her. Do this several times on different occasions. Next step is to actually lock the door. Stay in front of the cage and treat her through the bars and tell her how good she is, then let her out. Next time, make the time inside a bit longer (a couple minutes), next step lift the cage up, next step push the cage a few feet, next step pick up the cage and move it a few feet. Continue this until you can get her into the car. If you can get someone else to drive so you can be facing her in the back seat, that is best. Always praise her and give her chin scratches through the bars if you can.
Judge what step to take next by her anxiety levels. If she seems comfortable, then progress to the next level. If at any point, she starts to freak, stop the training and let her out/have her space back.
I use the method and my cat actually ENJOYS going for cat rides. He sleeps on the way back from the vet.

While you are at the store, get several different types of treats and find what she is CRAZY for. I recommend The Goodlife Recipe: Catnip delights. Or if she likes say, some time of human food, that is okay to give her since it is only for encouraging good cage behavior and nothing else.
Good luck!!

def kitty · Jun 22, 2011

@ Feralvr, only FLUTD cat owners understand the joy of finding a big urine clump in the litterbox

It's still the highlight of my day!

@ jedinat, I am so sorry it was a futile and traumatic trip for Neko! It's something idiopathic cystitis kitties have in common, they're such bundles of nerves, my FLUTD cat for example regularly poops himself when we're taking him somewhere, he did it even when he was a tiny 10 week old kitten, while my other cats never do that. I haven't tried these yet but they supposedly work on most cats: Feliway and Zylkene. Neither is a drug so they're perfectly safe for the cat, Feliway comes in a plug-in diffuser and a spray (that you can use on the inside of the crate next time you're taking her somewhere) and you just put a little Zylkene from the capsule over her food, either every day if she's easily stressed and stress is causing her cystitis, or for a few days before a stressful event (like a trip to the vet's). Many people also recommend Rescue Remedy but I am skeptical about it, I like to see a scientific explanation how something works before I spend money on it. I second Minka's advice on making the carrier an enjoyable place for them, anything that can lower the stress levels should be tried. My cats actually enjoy sleeping in the carrier, I leave it open on the floor in a corner and it's like a kitty cave for them, so getting them in the carrier is never a problem (though the trip itself can be, for a nervous cat).

Btw, regarding the urine sample, catching it that way will only be useful for ruling out crystals, but the specimen will be contaminated by bacteria. Sadly the only way to determine whether there are bacteria in her urine or not is to take the specimen directly from her bladder with a needle :/

@ Carolina, that is such a sad story, deaths caused by crystals are so heartbreaking because it's such a treatable and preventable condition. Could you give me more details or point me to the thread where this case was described, I would like to see what mistakes were made with this cat so I don't repeat them with mine.

EDIT: I think I actually managed to find the thread. Is this the case you were referring to?
http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=208451

feralvr · Jun 22, 2011

I do agree with Def Kitty on the urine sample. I got two from Squeak by just following him to the box and catching the urine in the sterile container. But, to truly test the urine sample, it must be a sterile sample directly from the bladder and sent out for culture/sensitivity testing. Neko will most likely need to go back to the vet.

. Do try to get her on the wet food adding a little extra water. As Minka said, and good advice, leave that crate out all the time with the door propped open with a cozy bed inside. I do this as well and some of my cats will take naps in there

.

jedinat · Jun 23, 2011

Well, I'm becoming seriously frustrated over this wet food thing. She'll look like she's decided she likes it (and I'm like "yes!"), will lick fairly enthusiastically for about 30 seconds, then sit up and lick her lips, then wander away. ("argh!") She almost always never touches it again having eaten just a tiny amount. It gets thrown away.

I'll try feeding her the same kind of food some hours later and she won't touch it. Or she'll let it sit there for a while and wander over and eat just a little bit, then never touch it again.

She's used to free feeding her kibble and I know I didn't originally approach this thing very well last week; I'm sure I've just been stressing her out all the more with this attempted diet change... And now I feel like I want to just put her crappy dry food back out, not knowing what is worse... since she's not eating enough to get much water anyways... Lose-lose situation all around.

I almost think she might have been over this by now if I had done absolutely nothing but buy her a water fountain and left her alone.

darlili · Jun 23, 2011

Have you tried any of the prescription dry kibble, like Hill's CD? My boy had crystals and just doesn't care for wet food much, although he does like the water fountain. But, knock wood, he loves the dry CD and hasn't had any crystal issues since we switched. My vets and I agreed pushing him to eat wet only wasn't really the best move, as stress alone can play a part in urinary issues.

feralvr · Jun 23, 2011

Here is what I would do and I did this for Squeak after discussing options with my vet while I await the culture results. He is getting grain-free wet food plus the wet Hill's C/D. He loves the chicken. I also got a bag of Hills W/D dry and he get some crunchies at lunch. He loves his dry too and I only offer the W/D dry as a treat. C/D and W/D are very good for bladder issues and W/D has added fiber which my Squeak needs for his constipation issues too.

Call you vet and ask for some dry Hill's C/D. For Bladder health. Since she wants to eat dry I would put her on that right away. There is also a canned chicken formula, you could get one can and see if she likes it. Then you can leave down the dry C/D to free feed and at least that won't harm her bladder. Have you tried Fancy Feast (stay away from fish) or the Holistic Select pouches, those are available at Petsmart. The pouches have chunks in gravy and maybe your girl might like chunks over pate. There is also Merrick's canned foods that alot of cats love. If you have a natural pet food store near you, go and talk with the owner about your cat's issue. Most are very helpful and can tell you which brands "fussy" cats seem to like in wet form. OH, there is also a new brand out called Fussy Cat and they have a urinary wet food. It is shredded bits of chicken/veges. At this point, I would try anything to get more fluids in her.

minka · Jun 23, 2011

Okay, several questions:
Is there dry out at the same time as wet?
How long are you leaving out the wet food? An hour? A few hours?
Do you refrigerate the food after she eats a bit the first time? If so, do you heat it up?
Do you put the whole can down? Or put the food in a bowl? Do you scoop it up with a spoon in a big piece? Or cut in into chunks?

The answers to these questions can help us greatly solve the wet food issue.

As for suggesting foods, Petsmart makes a food called Simply Nourish and its strips of chicken/duck/fish in gravy and my cat LOVES IT. And it will offer her lots of moisture.

Also, unless your cat Seems stressed (running around meowing for food, etc) I would continue trying to switch to wet at this time.

Blood in my cat's urine...

TCS Member

Thread starter

TCS Member

TCS Member

Thread starter

TCS Member

TCS Member

TCS Member

Thread starter

TCS Member

TCS Member

TCS Member

TCS Member

TCS Member

Thread starter

TCS Member

TCS Member

Thread starter

TCS Member

TCS Member

TCS Member

TCS Member

Thread starter

TCS Member

TCS Member

TCS Member