Mazy's FLUTD

I apologize for asking a stupid question


why do you have to take that away?

Well, if you could feed a diet of canned no grain foods - actually no grains and no vegetables (many such foods are available these days) and no dry food at all, you would never have to worry about pH. These foods naturally produce a mildly acidic pH which protects cats from urinary problems such as bacterial infections and struvites. (And to these foods it's not even necessary to add water.)
I would really like to encourage you to try such a diet.

My Muddy hated the canned C/D but loves the Purina UR.

Sending that Mazy will like it too!!

Prescription foods help balance the PH unlike no grain foods. My Muddy can eat 1 meal a day of non-prescription canned foods, but can't take more than that. The last time I took him off of prescription, he blocked, and I was feeding a high quality food.

Living with FLUTD is maddening sometimes.

Does she like the dry CD - sounded like it. My boy just doesn't care for wet food - if I can get in a scant teaspoon into morning and evening it's a good day - but is happy with the dry. And, knock wood, no crystals have reoccurred. He drinks out the fountain and I'll leave glasses of water around, but I really think it's the dry CD that's helping I guess I'm saying maybe not be so discouraged about not being able to use the non-prescription wet, but see how the dry kibble works with whatever water she'll take, along with the other prescription wet.

PS

Just one quick but very helpful quote for you from Dr.Debra L. Zoran's article Feline Nutrition
The carnivore connection to nutrition in cats
http://home.earthlink.net/~jacm2/id1.html

I hear you - Dante had some microscopic blood in his last urine draw. Based on the blood work done at the time, and how he's acting at home, they think it may be more a result of the draw itself rather than infection (thank goodness, no crystals), but I've been on high alert pee patrol. He's scheduled for another draw at the end of the month (30 days) absent any symptoms. If only they could talk more. I've been trying to get him to drink more too, but I fear stressing him if I 'chase' him too much.

Hope things resolve well and quickly for you.

So the bladder is flushing adequately which means she is consuming enough moisture on a purely dry CD diet ? Sounds like prescription food mechanism is working. I'm still missing something.

One of my girls had an idiopathic bladder infection/inflammation which is fortunately much easier to manage with any old holistic canned diet. Mazy.

otto, going by your observations I'm pretty sure now that reactions to food and water are at the root of Mazy's problems. The water she's drinking may very well be one that doesn't agree with her. However, distilled water would be a very unhealthy choice, I would not recommend switching to distilled water.

You say if you take her off the c/d, she develops very painful UTIs. Are you talking about actual bacterial infections that require treatment with an antibiotic or something else?

I'd like to ask you what other grain-free foods are you using and have tried for her and what is in those foods besides the animal protein source and nutrients? Also, what is the thickener in them? I'm looking at the one can of Before Grain chicken I have in the house and see guar and carrageenan. (Carrageenan is misspelled on the label. Not a good sign.) By the way, carrageenan is a nasty ingredient. I also see yeast extract. That's not a good ingredient either.

I believe, actually I'm convinced that a different kind of water and foods without certain ingredients will solve your problem.

Water can be a problem for some cats. (One of mine got sick from every kind of spring water but always did well on ordinary tap water.)
The mineral content of certain waters has been found to cause urinary problems in cats. Change to a different kind of water solved this problem.

There is a lot you can work with and there is no doubt in my mind that you will be able to solve this.

Okay, water. Even if she hardly drinks any, if you add it to food.....there you are. That's plenty to create and perpetuate a problem.

Now..... there is a relationship between allergy, infections and pH. For one thing, allergy can affect pH, and allergy can also cause infections. Especially in the urinary tract. On the other hand a pH problem can affect reactions to everything. Food, water, etc. It's how the body deals with things (different for every individual) and there is nothing we can do about that except adjust our diet (and our cats' diet) to avoid problems.
(Allergy can also cause nasty, terribly painful bladder inflammation without bacteria or crystals.)

Having to feed acidified food is not normal. It's okay as a temporary solution to prevent more serious trouble, but the reason for the need of acidified food must be found and corrected. With water that has the right pH and mineral content for a cat and food that doesn't cause reactions that raise the pH, acidified food is not necessary. Trust me on this.

Distilled water.

http://truthofwater.com/answers/2008...safe-to-drink/

http://yourorganicgardeningblog.com/...safe-to-drink/

http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/w...-cat-to-drink/

Clearly a pH - food ingredient problem. Water can have a role as well.

Only because it helps you avoid looking for the root cause of the problems and making the necessary changes that will make it possible to feed a normal diet.

The lack of water intake on a dry food diet will have an effect on the kidneys as she ages, even if there is no immediately noticeable effect right now. So I completely understand why you get worried, but again, trust me on this, watering up canned food is not the answer. Canned food that is high in animal protein and has no other ingredients that will raise the pH, has a naturally, mildly acidifying effect that keeps the pH low. Added water actually has an alkalinizing effect. And if it's the wrong kind of water on top of it, the good intentions turn into a trap with bad results.

No, you know that she would need canned food and you're absolutely right about wanting her to have canned. She loves the dry c/d. Well, kids love candy. But that's no reason to let them have it instead of good, healthy food. You want what's best for her, you're just having trouble getting there. But you will.

Actually, I wasn't thinking of trying to make any suggestions. But it would be a good starting point if you could check the ingredients in the foods your other kitties are eating and try to see which ones likely made Mazy sick. Ingredients besides the protein sources and added supplements that is.

If you look for new foods for her, they don't have to be expensive and "high-quality" to keep her healthy. They just have to produce the right low pH and any ordinary no grain/no vegetable food can do that. Also, the good thing about canned food is that cats don't need additional water and normally they don't even drink until their kidneys start aging and become less efficient. At that point one starts seeing a cat at the water bowl now and then..... and then, as time goes by, more often. The interesting thing is that, even when they start drinking on canned food, the kidney values are still perfect and they can hold steady for several more years. The canned food continues to protect the kidneys.

I'm wondering about something. Is she getting any treats? Cat treats and people foods maybe as a treat?

Otto, maybe I just missed it - what did the vet say to do, if anything? Her blood work is good, her pee is fine re crystals, she's not dehydrated - did I get that all right? Did the vet say to make any changes and, if so, what? I think you said you were worried that the urine was too concentrated - was the vet also worried?

I wouldn't mess with her food - every time you took her off CD you had an issue, if I read this right.

I think you might be looking for reverse osmosis or ro water, you just don't want ro/di or distilled. You can probably find bottled water that's ro at the grovery store if you want to give it a try.

Have you tried a drinking fountain for cats? The sound and motion of the water draws mine to them. I have 3 varieties here and every cat likes a little something different. I rotate them to keep them interested.