2 cats with Behavior issues-starting to consider euthanasia

Well I'm not usually one for putting healthy animals down, but it really does sound like you have went over and above trying both to fix the issues and trying to find them another home, you've kept them a long time and I can completely understand how this isn't a workable situation with children and renting. I'm sure others will disagree with me wanting to save everything under the sun but two senior cats, one who bites and one who potties everywhere really aren't adoptable and do you really feel they would be happier in a shelter or sanctuary to live out however many years with strange people and animals around? That's not the life I would choose for my animals and personally I think it's a copout so people can dump their animals off and feel good about themselves pretending fluffy is living a grand old life at the farm. Most shelters are overcrowded, stressful and noisy and your pet lives in a cage until they are lucky enough to die, look at the numbers of cats on petfinder, you really want to add to that? If you can do an outdoor enclosure of sorts, maybe a large covered dog kennel or garage they could live in or maybe a room inside without carpet for easy cleanup. That would be about all I could think of for ways to keep them reasonably but if that's not workable don't feel like you are a horrible person for putting them down.

Their lives are not for you to take. You don't get to decide whether they live or die.

I'm sure other responders will be more diplomatic and offer real advice, but I'm horrified that someone would even consider killing pets they've had for 12 years.

Within the last 4 years, their lives have changed dramatically. Cats are creatures of habit and when you introduce them to new environment, you must do so slowly. It's all happening too fast. To go from having your complete and undivided attention to dividing time with a husband and 2 toddlers. Imagine your world turning upside down.

Please remember when posting - try to keep it polite. The OP is here desperately seeking advice, let's pool our resources & give her some!

I think it has come to the point that cat and human are incompatible living together. If the cats weren't declawed they'd be happier in an outdoor enclosure. If the humans had less changes in their lives, the cats would have less behavior issues.
Putting them down is for me not an option. Have you tried putting an ad in the local newspaper asking for help? There may be someone nearby who is willing to adopt your cats. You will have to be very careful though in selecting the new guardians for Skipper and Kahlua.
Letting them outside may not be a good move either because they've lived inside since the start and they are declawed, I am sure it is very upsetting for them. How about a "doghouse" type of enclosure in the backyard? It is a compromise - they are safe, far from the children, and out of the house.

I can tell you love your cats very much and have been dealing with these difficult behaviors for years. I really think at their age a life in a shelter would be just cruel for them. A sanctuary might be a good solution, if you could find one. I understand your predicament and are to the point of no return, as the cats must be placed. It is possible that they would settle down, change their bad behaviors in a new more quiet home with a more calm life and no more moving around. The stress of moving, the stress of the children coming into the picture, etc. might be adding to the cause of these issues. But, trying to find someone to fit the bill and take a chance on them might be daunting. The only other option I can think of, would be to build an outdoor cat enclosure for the two of them since you don't have a tiled room inside that they can just live in and call their own. I don't even know if any shelter would take your female since she is so aggressive, she would really be a hard cat to adopt out as would your male with the marking behaviors. This is a very tough predicament and I certainly wish you so much luck and support you in any decision you make. This must be very emotional for you and I am sorry about your situation.

I'm sorry I don't have any advice, but just wanted to give you a . I know this wouldn't even be crossing your mind unless you had tried everything else. I hope you're able to find something that works to keep them - and more folks will be along soon to hopefully share some good advice.

It is in all likelihood the declaw that is common denominator underlying both of these most common owner complaints - aggression and litter box issues. What brand of litter are you using currently ? I'm sure this is something you have been over with the vet. It needs to be one with a very soft and comfortable texture on sensitive toes and that has a special attractant that makes kitties want to pee in it.

All I can suggest on the behavioral front would be to try another anti-depressant like clomipramine perhaps in combination with a re-conditioning therapy that helps the cat break a negative association with the litter box by associating it with a relaxing, positive pain-free experience.

Onthethird, have you tried Dr. Elsey's Cat Attract litter? I've heard it works wonders.

This is such a sad and disturbing situation for those of us who love cats like children, which is the way most of us are here. I've never experienced anything like this, in the over 50 years I've had cats. My guess is that a combination of stressors have driven the cats and you to this point.

The suggestions of devoting a room, or an outside enclosure to them seem like good and possible options. There are fairly large and portable outside enclosures available, ready made, to purchase. A sanctuary would be wonderful. If I were rich I'd have one and take your cats.

Have you looked into a cat behaviorist to help you?

You are in a tough situation, and I feel for you, the unhappy person and the unhappy cats.

All I can say is that I couldn't put them down, I don't think, if it were me, I'd never get over it if I did. I'd keep looking for a solution, and go to other vets, specialist vets, and cat behaviorists until I got help, no matter what it cost and how much debt I got in.

Good luck to you, your family, and the sad cats. I really feel bad for all of you, and I sincerely wish I had more to offer you.

Robin

I would prevent Kahlua's access to your children at this point, for everyone's safety. If that means giving over a room to the cats at this point, I'd do it, no matter how inconvenient. I would want to try an experienced and qualified cat behaivor professional.

I'd even consider a cat "communicator" at this point. I have no personal experience with this, but I've read here a couple intriguing accounts of the help they gave people and cats.

I don't know if bringing them inside full time is a good idea. They shouldn't be out because they are declawed, but I think these cats need stability more than anything. So I don't know.Do they get plenty of positive attention? I sure can understand your frustration with them. But if they aren't getting positive attention from you, they may act out more.

For the litter box issues, besides the Cat Attract litter, are you using large, open boxes (no hoods), 3 boxes in different places, and scooping at least 2 times a day? Have you been cleaning up the places soiled with Nok Out (buy on line) and using a black light (sold at big pet stores) to find all the places to be cleaned? Have you confined him to a small room with all his things to retrain him to use the litter pan? All these things need to be done before you give up on Skipper.

If you read the many past threads, stickies and articles here, you will get more ideas on how to work on both these problems. You seem to really care about your cats and want to find a way to work this out. So trying some new things may give you solutions.

I really appreciate your efforts to try to help you and your family live in peace with your cats.

Robin

For the spraying issue, I've had great luck with Cat Attract litter in large rubbermaid type bins (no lid). To clean up where they spray, I use nothing but Nok Out these days - it works better than anything that I've found out there. Cats will repeatedly go to a spot where they can smell urine, and you must use odor neutralizers to eliminate the smell. Saturate the areas - don't simply spray them with a mister bottle.

For biting, there's a great sticky thread on cat aggression towards people. You might find some specific ideas in that thread to help you with your girl.
http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20837

I'll be honest here. I've had a lot of challenging cats over the years (been rescuing feral cats for over 20 years now) and have only given up on 1 cat (age 7) during that time due to behavior issues. That particular cat actually was diagnosed with a cat form of schizophrenia - take every problem behavior that cats do and magnify it 100 fold. I never support euthanasia for behavior issues unless there is an untreatable medical condition behind that behavior.

Put on your "think like a cat" hat and reason through the behavior issues. You can only correct the behavior if you are able to invest the time to do so. We are here to offer ideas and support as you work through this.

I have seen on line quite large, portable cat enclosures that are staked to the ground and can be collapsed and moved. This might work for you. I think Drs. Foster and Smith sells one, though I often find items with better prices elsewhere.

The screened porch (with shade and all their other needs) sounds like an excellent idea. Get a handyman to help you if you can't handle repairs yourself at the moment.

Robin

Oh! Lots of good luck wishes to you and your family. And loads of the magical tcs being sent your way.

Oh, and, lots of people here say Nok Out is the only cleaner that really works.

Robin

The litter is not new but it's not widely publicized. I've heard really good things about it and I'm sending all the positive vibes I can your way. You are in a terrible situation right now and I sure don't envy you. From your OP it sounds like you've tried about everything else. I don't recall but have you consulted with a feline behaviorist? You might try to find someone that is a behaviorist in your area to visit the home and make an evaluation. Best of luck and wishes to you and your family.

Go Skipper. Just want to send more positive thoughts and prayers your way that things can be turned around, somehow. I so agree that they need to have some stability and extra time with you doting on them. I know you are busy and this is hard to do, but it might help at this point to try to make them feel very special. We are here to support you no matter what .

OH, wanted to mention about the wiggling/shaking tail behavior. Some cats, males and females alike, will do this behavior as a greeting or as excitement. It is NOT spraying and no urine comes out while they do this. It is just part of some cats body language repertoire. My Perkins does this ALL the time.....

I'm just seeing this thread for the first time. I'm so very glad you have decided to give it a new try. I know how frustrating this all is. I think I have your two cats in one with mine. Don't think I haven't thought about putting him down, but after having to do that last summer with my other kitty, I know I could never do it. It's the frustration talking, and I understand that.

You're doing everything you can do. I know first hand that my guy gets bent out of shape if he sees my other cat on my lap. I have to make sure he gets just as much attention even though my lap isn't the place he wants to be. He just wants to know he's important too.

Good luck to you. I really hope it all works out. You've had these two for a long time. It would be a shame not to be able to keep them.

I will definitely have to pick up the attractant myself.

Until they discontinued it, Pet Valu used to sell Fresh4Life training formula, and my cat was good at using the box then.

When they discontinued it and I couldn't get it, he didn't always use it.

My cat doesn't spray, only pees where ever he wants to, but not always.

I also use a self cleaning litterbox, it works wonders around here.

First, welcome to TCS!

I'm so sorry you're going through all of this!

I've rescued and rehabbed many different animals for many years, but the last six or so I've worked exclusively with cats, and I've a few suggestions for you:

1) You said you were using Feliway... that stuff works what sometimes looks like miracles - but only if the concentration is high enough. You should have one plugin per average-sized room (Amazon.com sells multi-packs at GREAT prices).

2) How and when did you rule out urinary-tract issues? Cats can be sick for years with UTI-related issues and these will not only cause inappropriate elimination, they will also effect feline behavior. Nobody has a happy face when they're in constant pain, you know?

3) Food can sometimes have an impact on feline behavior (and definitely affects UTI health). It might be possible that some of the inappropriate elimination and anxiety-attributed behaviors may be related to your cats' diet and feeding regimen. Are you feeding at least three times a day? Cats evolved to eat many small meals a day and have a difficult time when their meals are spread too far apart; they can and do get irritated and quick to swat when they're hungry. (Sometimes, their tummies will even get so acidic, they'll vomit; occasionally, that will put them off food altogether and create a spiraling mess, but I don't see any evidence of that in your post.)

I also recommend that you begin feeding a grain-free canned diet if you are not already. Natural Balance, Evo 95% Meats, Wellness and many more have grain-free varieties. Grain, especially corn, is a high-allergen product, and has no place in a cat's diet - this could easily be the cause of the obsessive fur-licking behavior.

4) Pick up a book on kitty behavior. It will help you understand what's going on in your cat's minds. "Starting from Scratch: How to Correct Behavior Problems in Your Adult Cat" by Pam Johnson-Bennett is currently on sale for ~$10 on Amazon and is a great choice, as is her "Think Like a Cat: How to Raise a Well-Adjusted Cat--Not a Sour Puss". Cats have a very rich vocabulary, but pretty much all of their conversations are conducted through body language. Both of these books will help you recognize and identify feline communication.

In addition, these books will help you understand the stress your cats have been through with the massive changes in their family life and, even more importantly, give you tips to help them cope with that stress.

5) Toys! Da-Bird is a grat choice. I've never seen a cat who could resist it. Playing with your cats will build trust between you, burn off any energy they may have built up (cats, after all, are meant to expend energy hunting every single day of their lives), and may help them become more contented and happy in a way I think they're missing right now.

6) "Safety Zones" Is there any place up high where your cats can get to that would constitute a safe zone for them? If not, can you purchase a kitty tree or two or a wall shelf just for them? If they're always down low, they may constantly be feeling vulnerable and edgy, with no opportunity to relax. If this is the case with Kahlua, it could be she's feeling threatened by all the activity in the house and is attacking out of self-defense, in a "preemptive strike" sort of strategy.

A final thought. Declawed cats are known to have issues, sadly. They are, however, pretty helpless without their claws. In addition, being outside is yet another change for them to deal with, and includes a loss of contact and bonding with you. If at all possible, please bring them back inside.

<<<<<hugs>>>>>

I hope some of this helps you and your family, both two- and four-legged!

AC

I'm really glad you've decided to give them another chance, that being said if it doesn't work and you decide to euthanize I want you to know that you have my full support. I think it would be cruel at their age to put them in a shelter or sanctuary environment, better to let them go with dignity than to leave them and have them wondering where you went or what they did to deserve being dumped at the shelter or sanctuary. Sanctuaries are not as pleasant as some people believe them to be.

We have a cat condo for our pee-er. It "resets" him if he's in it and then taken out only under supervision. Both the cats like it when it's up and open so it could be a good "safe space" for your cats.

We tried everything for the peeing and the cat condo confinement was the only thing that worked :-( He goes in when he pees and it takes about a month to reintegrate him. So, yes he lives in there about 2 months a year. Better than euthanasia though.

My only other option is diapers!