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School suspends girl for Facebook post

post #1 of 24
5/26/11 at 12:05pm
Thread Starter 
Outrage as Girl is Suspended from School Over Bin Laden Facebook Post

I get it...what she said was horrible, and it was about a teacher nonetheless.

However if she had said it in a pizza joint when hanging out with her friends, which is as close to an analogy as I can think of today , would she have been suspended for it? If she had written it in an email to her friends who were discussing the teacher, would she have been suspended for it?

She is 13 years old. On one hand, 13 year olds don't always think things through before saying/writing them. On the other I guarantee that this is a lesson that she will remember. The question is...what is the lesson that she will remember? That she needs to think things through before posting it in a public place? Or that she better not say anything against any authority figure because BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING.

How do you feel about schools using Facebook, Twitter and other social media in disciplining students even when the posts were made off school grounds?
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post #2 of 24
5/26/11 at 12:29pm
It's ironic that the Bin Laden reference is the most "innocent" thing about her post, since he's dead. If she had written, "I wish my brother would kill my math teacher", isn't that pretty much a death threat?
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post #3 of 24
5/26/11 at 3:02pm
This is ridiculous.... The one to be suspended - indefinitely - should be this principal .
This was her facebook account, and yes, she is entitled to freedom of speech. Since Bin Laden is dead... Well... it is not like she can resuscitate the guy to go there and kill the teacher - so, nope, that was not a threat . That is called venting

Had she written that on the school walls or black boards (do they even have that nowadays? Gosh I am old! ) - then yes, it would been the School's business...
But nope... none of the school business.
And shame on the other little girl who pointed the finger on her too!
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post #4 of 24
5/26/11 at 3:31pm
I think the right action was taken. That kid was spreading hate and what she said could be construed as "bullying". I have a zero stance against bullying, regardless of who is doing the bullying or who it is directed at.

She needs to learn that there are consequences to her actions. Saying it to a friend over lunch, and posting out there for everyone to see, are totally different things.

So she hates her math teacher! Wishing that person dead, especially in a public forum, is inexcusable IMHO. Besides, there are some seriously sicko people out there. What if one of these unstable people saw that and went and acted on her wish, killing that teacher?

Don't think that's possible? It surely is. I saw an episode of Dateline where they talked about a case of someone having posted online that they had wished their parents dead, and someone took her up on it. Like I said, sick people.
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post #5 of 24
5/26/11 at 6:50pm
I think the school had the right to dole out punishment since the statement she made was against a teacher. However, I think five days suspension is in excess. Maybe one or two days, but not five. I may be somewhat prejudiced in my opinion since I have family members who are schoolteachers.
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post #6 of 24
5/27/11 at 12:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natalie_ca View Post
I think the right action was taken. That kid was spreading hate and what she said could be construed as "bullying". I have a zero stance against bullying, regardless of who is doing the bullying or who it is directed at. How exactly is that bullying? She vented on facebook. She didn't push anybody against the wall, slap anybody, curse ant anybody, or even exchange words at anybody - I really can't understand how that can be remotely compared to bullying.

She needs to learn that there are consequences to her actions. Saying it to a friend over lunch, and posting out there for everyone to see, are totally different things. Where is the line? Who imposes these consequences? Why the school has anything to do with it? This is, IMHO, completely outside of the school jurisdiction - it is the parents responsibility to educate this child, NOT the school. Had the school called the parents in for a meeting and warned them, that would be one thing. But the school had no right IMHO to call upon themselves to punish the kid. This happened outside of the school.

So she hates her math teacher! Wishing that person dead, especially in a public forum, is inexcusable IMHO. Besides, there are some seriously sicko people out there. What if one of these unstable people saw that and went and acted on her wish, killing that teacher?

Don't think that's possible? It surely is. I saw an episode of Dateline where they talked about a case of someone having posted online that they had wished their parents dead, and someone took her up on it. Like I said, sick people. Well... I am sorry, but I am not going to blame this child for some sicko's murders.... Just me tho...
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueyedgirl5946 View Post
I think the school had the right to dole out punishment since the statement she made was against a teacher. However, I think five days suspension is in excess. Maybe one or two days, but not five. I may be somewhat prejudiced in my opinion since I have family members who are schoolteachers.
My dad, my mom and my brother are teachers, although they are professors (universities), nonetheless, I still think this as wrong as it can be.
You have to be guaranteed your right to have your private life - and by that I don't mean it do be private (like a secret), I mean - outside of the institutions you belong. When I am outside of my job, my personal life, is MY life. When a child is outside of school, her personal life, is HER life.
You have to have these rights - it goes along with freedom of speech, but you can not just give away your private/personal life like this. You have to hang on to it. Otherwise in a little while there will be no line to cross - it is pretty blurry right now....
This is crazy for me... I don't know...
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post #7 of 24
5/27/11 at 12:24am
Cyber bullying is a crime! Just because it's said on an electronic media, doesn't make it ok!


http://www.prisonplanet.com/corporat...ying-bill.html

http://www.askthejudge.info/cyberbul...and-laws/3299/

http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2011/01/20/...ew-jersey-man/

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/279963...bullying-case/

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21844203...r-online-hoax/


Some threads here that have been created to talk about cyber bullying:

http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=160467

http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=170457

She's 13. Now is the time for her to learn that it is NOT acceptable to do what she did. If they let it slide, she could possibly turn into one of the horrid offenders who to this day continue to bully me in cyber space.

I have no sympathy for the girl. I think she got what she deserved. Maybe it will knock some sense into her and she will learn that she will be held accountable for what she says...on or off line.
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post #8 of 24
5/27/11 at 3:47am
Carlolina, I 110% agree with you!!!

This is completly freakin ridiculous....she should have to apologize to the teacher because it obviously hurt their feelings and the principle should apologize to the family for being an idiot.

It's really NOT a big deal that everyone is making it out to be, the kid simply vented, WHO CARES???
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post #9 of 24
5/27/11 at 4:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolina View Post
My dad, my mom and my brother are teachers, although they are professors (universities), nonetheless, I still think this as wrong as it can be.
You have to be guaranteed your right to have your private life - and by that I don't mean it do be private (like a secret), I mean - outside of the institutions you belong. When I am outside of my job, my personal life, is MY life. When a child is outside of school, her personal life, is HER life.
You have to have these rights - it goes along with freedom of speech, but you can not just give away your private/personal life like this. You have to hang on to it. Otherwise in a little while there will be no line to cross - it is pretty blurry right now....
This is crazy for me... I don't know...
I certainly do believe in privacy rights. However, I believe a person should use disgression about what they do or speak in public. Even though this child was at home, what she said went public. As I stated, I think her punishment by the school was a bit over the top, but certainly in line with her actions.
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post #10 of 24
5/27/11 at 4:23am
Kids under the age of 18 shouldn't be allowed on FB end of!!.
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post #11 of 24
5/27/11 at 4:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosiemac View Post
Kids under the age of 18 shouldn't be allowed on FB end of!!.
Thank you for posting this. I was discussing this case with my husband and he told me this. Recently he heard a lot on the news about the fact that minors are not allowed to have facebook accounts. If they create a facebook account, they are doing so illegally. I don't have a facebook account so I have not read their rules. Does anyone have the answer to this.
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post #12 of 24
5/27/11 at 4:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosiemac View Post
Kids under the age of 18 shouldn't be allowed on FB end of!!.
Best post yet!

I agree with Linda on this one. Spewing hate is unacceptable to me whether it is done in a cafeteria, a pizza parlour or on Facebook.

It really is time for people to be held accountable for their actions and what they say. Hopefully this 13 year old has learned a lesson.

If the hate was aimed at a teacher, then it certainly is the school's business and needs to be dealt with at the school.
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post #13 of 24
5/27/11 at 11:28am
I agree that 13-year-olds shouldn't be on FB to begin with...

Freedom of speech is a tricky thing, though. It's one thing to say something out loud to a friend, it's quite another when you put it in print and broadcast it to the masses. If she had falsely smeared this teacher's reputation via FB (which is, IMO, less serious than wishing her dead!), she could have been sued for libel.

I'd like to think that the whole thing would have been handled by her parents, but I know too many parents these days who'd rather let other people raise their kids. I mean, really - if her parents were THAT involved in their daughter's life, WHY is she wishing death on a teacher on her FB account? Sounds like suspect parenting to me. And as it was a TEACHER she directed her hate toward, I think the school is well within their right to take action.
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post #14 of 24
5/27/11 at 12:19pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natalie_ca View Post
I think the right action was taken. That kid was spreading hate and what she said could be construed as "bullying". I have a zero stance against bullying, regardless of who is doing the bullying or who it is directed at.

She needs to learn that there are consequences to her actions. Saying it to a friend over lunch, and posting out there for everyone to see, are totally different things.
I disagree that this is bullying. She didn't post it on the teacher's Facebook page. It wasn't meant for the teacher to see. How could she bully the teacher if s/he wasn't supposed to get the message?

There is a big difference between posting something on Facebook from home and saying it to a friend over lunch. At 13, it's almost guaranteed that she would have lunch at school which would make it the school's direct business. Maybe I'm just nitpicking the point you were trying to make but it's a significant different to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blueyedgirl5946 View Post
I may be somewhat prejudiced in my opinion since I have family members who are schoolteachers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolina View Post
My dad, my mom and my brother are teachers, although they are professors (universities), nonetheless, I still think this as wrong as it can be.


I was a teacher for a few years (unfortunately it wasn't the right career path for me). To me, even as horrible as her statement was, I've seen worse. Yes they did get in trouble for asking pointed sexual questions at me (in a parochial school, no less) and bringing a Mountain Dew bottle full of urine to my class. I'm sure I was cursed (and worse) by the star soccer-player who was suspended and not allowed to play "because of me."

And I still don't think she should have been suspended for it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolina
You have to be guaranteed your right to have your private life - and by that I don't mean it do be private (like a secret), I mean - outside of the institutions you belong. When I am outside of my job, my personal life, is MY life. When a child is outside of school, her personal life, is HER life.
You have to have these rights - it goes along with freedom of speech, but you can not just give away your private/personal life like this. You have to hang on to it. Otherwise in a little while there will be no line to cross - it is pretty blurry right now....
This is crazy for me... I don't know...
For students in K-12 school there are limits to their Constitutional Rights. For instance, even though there is Freedom of the Press as well as Freedom of Speech the Teacher Advisor or a member of the Administration can edit a school sponsored student newspaper. This isn't an arbitrary thing - the Supreme Court decided that one. Student lockers can be searched because the lockers are property of the School. However backpacks/purses, etc. cannot be searched without the consent of either the student or their parent/guardian.

HOWEVER...the rights of the school, with the exception of social media apparently, are limited to the actual school grounds. We all remember the recent incident of the school issuing laptops and using them to spy on the kids in their homes. That was obviously infringing on the student's privacy! The school can't use private emails that are sent and received on private computers to discipline students - unless those emails are accessed on a school-owned computer. If the school becomes aware of an incident that is outside of their "jurisdiction" they have to notify the parents or local authorities, as warranted.

I'm not just making this up off the top of my head. These were the rules we had to follow by law. I haven't heard of any recent Supreme Court cases extending the limits of schools, so I have to assume this is still the law of the land.

When her post was reported to the school by another parent, the school should have contacted the girl's parents and hoped that they would actually discipline their child and taught her that you cannot say things like that online or in person. But it isn't the school's place to do it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosiemac View Post
Kids under the age of 18 shouldn't be allowed on FB end of!!.
Personally I agree with you! However, obviously the law says they can earlier (we have to deal with the same thing here, so since Susan and I are both Mods we know that good and well!), and Facebook doesn't care.

My thought was wondering if the parents were monitoring her posts in any way? Obviously her friend's parents were! It's entirely possible that it "slipped through the cracks" so to speak, i.e. she posted it at night & her parents check her posts in the morning when they have more time, the other parent saw it shortly after she posted & called the school before the girl's parents caught it. Giving them the benefit of the doubt that they were involved before she got suspended...
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post #15 of 24
5/27/11 at 12:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb View Post
I disagree that this is bullying. She didn't post it on the teacher's Facebook page. It wasn't meant for the teacher to see. How could she bully the teacher if s/he wasn't supposed to get the message?

There is a big difference between posting something on Facebook from home and saying it to a friend over lunch. At 13, it's almost guaranteed that she would have lunch at school which would make it the school's direct business. Maybe I'm just nitpicking the point you were trying to make but it's a significant different to me.



[/color]

I was a teacher for a few years (unfortunately it wasn't the right career path for me). To me, even as horrible as her statement was, I've seen worse. Yes they did get in trouble for asking pointed sexual questions at me (in a parochial school, no less) and bringing a Mountain Dew bottle full of urine to my class. I'm sure I was cursed (and worse) by the star soccer-player who was suspended and not allowed to play "because of me."

And I still don't think she should have been suspended for it!

[color=#ff0000]

For students in K-12 school there are limits to their Constitutional Rights. For instance, even though there is Freedom of the Press as well as Freedom of Speech the Teacher Advisor or a member of the Administration can edit a school sponsored student newspaper. This isn't an arbitrary thing - the Supreme Court decided that one. Student lockers can be searched because the lockers are property of the School. However backpacks/purses, etc. cannot be searched without the consent of either the student or their parent/guardian.

HOWEVER...the rights of the school, with the exception of social media apparently, are limited to the actual school grounds. We all remember the recent incident of the school issuing laptops and using them to spy on the kids in their homes. That was obviously infringing on the student's privacy! The school can't use private emails that are sent and received on private computers to discipline students - unless those emails are accessed on a school-owned computer. If the school becomes aware of an incident that is outside of their "jurisdiction" they have to notify the parents or local authorities, as warranted.

I'm not just making this up off the top of my head. These were the rules we had to follow by law. I haven't heard of any recent Supreme Court cases extending the limits of schools, so I have to assume this is still the law of the land.

When her post was reported to the school by another parent, the school should have contacted the girl's parents and hoped that they would actually discipline their child and taught her that you cannot say things like that online or in person. But it isn't the school's place to do it.




Personally I agree with you! However, obviously the law says they can earlier (we have to deal with the same thing here, so since Susan and I are both Mods we know that good and well!), and Facebook doesn't care.

My thought was wondering if the parents were monitoring her posts in any way? Obviously her friend's parents were! It's entirely possible that it "slipped through the cracks" so to speak, i.e. she posted it at night & her parents check her posts in the morning when they have more time, the other parent saw it shortly after she posted & called the school before the girl's parents caught it. Giving them the benefit of the doubt that they were involved before she got suspended...
Agreed 100%, if I could agree 1000, I would!
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post #16 of 24
5/28/11 at 6:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueyedgirl5946 View Post
Thank you for posting this. I was discussing this case with my husband and he told me this. Recently he heard a lot on the news about the fact that minors are not allowed to have facebook accounts. If they create a facebook account, they are doing so illegally. I don't have a facebook account so I have not read their rules. Does anyone have the answer to this.
Unfortunately the answer is:
Quote:
Registration and Account Security

Facebook users provide their real names and information, and we need your help to keep it that way. Here are some commitments you make to us relating to registering and maintaining the security of your account:
..
You will not use Facebook if you are under 13.
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post #17 of 24
5/28/11 at 8:06am
Since FB is a "public" medium, anything posted there is for all to see. Employers are checking prospective employees' FB accounts when hiring. I don't see what she did any different than if she stood in a crowded square and spouted off hate remarks. People have been jailed and one was deported from this country for such remarks.

Again, people need to be taught that they are responsible for their words and actions.

Not only should she have been suspended but she should have had her butt kicked.
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post #18 of 24
5/28/11 at 10:12am
The girl (and her mom) are learning some valuable lessons that are not part of the school's curriculum!

1. Written words are stronger than spoken words. Once they are spoken, words are gone, and it's pretty impossible to prove after-the-fact what someone said and exactly what they meant by it. When you write it down, though, it's documented and scrutinized.

2. You cannot write hate messages and death threats without repercussions. Others (thankfully) don't tolerate it.

3. Even if you don't like them or agree with them, show respect to others, especially those in authority.

4. Work within the system first. Make a list why the teacher is disliked, citing real examples. The girl and her parents should have talked to the teacher about their concerns, if that didn't help the next conversation should have been with the principal. There are also many rate-a-teacher websites where the girl can go online and complain.

5. If a kid steps out of line, talk to the kid! Or the parents! Don't go to the principal first - explain to the girl what's going on and give her a chance to correct it. Teens make a lot of mistakes, they are supposed to, but they should be given a chance to make it right!

I'm around a lot of 13-year-olds and they are pretty dramatic at that age. They need guidance on how to handle their intense (hormonal) feelings, and they need outlets so the emotions don't build up. Hopefully, the girl learned from her mistakes… I wonder what grade she's going to make in that class, and I wonder about the "friend" who tattled to the principal. I believe the school reacted rather harshly, but it's not surprising.
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post #19 of 24
5/28/11 at 12:32pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post
Since FB is a "public" medium, anything posted there is for all to see. Employers are checking prospective employees' FB accounts when hiring. I don't see what she did any different than if she stood in a crowded square and spouted off hate remarks. People have been jailed and one was deported from this country for such remarks.

Again, people need to be taught that they are responsible for their words and actions.

Not only should she have been suspended but she should have had her butt kicked.
Once again, I can't find fault with anything you said except for the last paragraph. What she said is wrong no ifs, ands, or buts about it!

The difference is that if she had said it outside of school, even if it was shouted in a public square, the school could not discipline her! Why is it different because she used a social networking site?

Facebook is public, we all know that. However most people anymore do take the little step of making their FB page private so that the whole world can't see it. I would especially hope that parents of teens insist that their pages are private! We can't know for sure, of course, but if her wall was private and only her "friends" could see it wouldn't it be more like shouting it at a private party than in a public square?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SwampWitch View Post
The girl (and her mom) are learning some valuable lessons that are not part of the school's curriculum!

1. Written words are stronger than spoken words. Once they are spoken, words are gone, and it's pretty impossible to prove after-the-fact what someone said and exactly what they meant by it. When you write it down, though, it's documented and scrutinized.

2. You cannot write hate messages and death threats without repercussions. Others (thankfully) don't tolerate it.

3. Even if you don't like them or agree with them, show respect to others, especially those in authority.

4. Work within the system first. Make a list why the teacher is disliked, citing real examples. The girl and her parents should have talked to the teacher about their concerns, if that didn't help the next conversation should have been with the principal. There are also many rate-a-teacher websites where the girl can go online and complain.

5. If a kid steps out of line, talk to the kid! Or the parents! Don't go to the principal first - explain to the girl what's going on and give her a chance to correct it. Teens make a lot of mistakes, they are supposed to, but they should be given a chance to make it right!

I'm around a lot of 13-year-olds and they are pretty dramatic at that age. They need guidance on how to handle their intense (hormonal) feelings, and they need outlets so the emotions don't build up. Hopefully, the girl learned from her mistakes… I wonder what grade she's going to make in that class, and I wonder about the "friend" who tattled to the principal. I believe the school reacted rather harshly, but it's not surprising.
You said it all so well!

It's really too bad that her parents weren't able to teach her these things instead of the long arm of the law (school law).

I just wanted to point out, though, that it was her friend's parent that saw the post & went to the school. It wasn't her friend.
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post #20 of 24
5/28/11 at 2:44pm
My neighbours daughter is on my friends list and she's only 14. Her Dad is also on her list but never uses FB much, but on two occassions i've had to text him to go onto her wall as there was some awful things being posted about her by so called friends.

He posted on her wall at the people concerned and they backed down. Since those episodes he monitors it without her knowing just incase it happens again.

There's some evil kids out there, and if their like this now i'd hate to think what they'll be like when they become adults!
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post #21 of 24
5/28/11 at 4:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post
If the hate was aimed at a teacher, then it certainly is the school's business and needs to be dealt with at the school.


I agree!
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post #22 of 24
5/28/11 at 5:04pm
Here is a website with a story about this very issue.

http://www.kxan.com/dpp/news/crime/f...ens-prosecuted
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post #23 of 24
5/28/11 at 9:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosiemac View Post
Kids under the age of 18 shouldn't be allowed on FB end of!!.

This is what I'm thinking as well, because of how many posts I see from the kids I'm friends with. They always seem to say something inappropriate, simply because they don't care yet about the image they present of themselves to the world.
I think the lesson the girl has learned could be that big brother is watching, but when it comes to facebook that's generally simply the truth, anyone can see your facebook account and depending on what you say on there it could even lead you to prison- imagine if the math teacher actually happened to die for some reason or another, the 13 year old would be pretty high on the suspect list...
Anyway i know that's a long shot but still, while I do agree with the mother to some extent when she says it's her business to discipline her child when she's at home, I think the lesson the girl will learn if her mother disciplines her about the facebook post wouldnt' be as strong as being suspended from school..
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post #24 of 24
5/29/11 at 12:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosiemac View Post

There's some evil kids out there, and if their like this now i'd hate to think what they'll be like when they become adults!
There sure are!!! And that's why I feel that the school took the appropriate action. This shows the girl that she needs to be accountable for what she says or does, and it might make her think twice the next time.

Time sure has changed. I am 49 years old and when I was a kid it was ok to spank (note, I said spank, not beat!!!) your kid for doing wrong. I would have gotten a good spanking if I had said such a thing about one of my teachers, or anyone else for that matter.

The problem with today's kids is that the only consequence to their actions are "discussions" and "time outs." I know from experience that most kids think that it's a joke because they know nothing really is going to happen to them if they continue with their behaviour.

Suspension from school and a permanent record of same on their file while may not be a great deal, it's something. It's better than her parents saying to her "go to your room. no tv tonight!"
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