So many questions!

Originally Posted by orangeishcat

Aaah why do I keep missing this thread?!

He isn't on r/d- just the normal Science Diet weight management food. My vet's office has always sold it for as long as I can remember, and if my vet trusts it- I trust it.

I just wish it weren't so expensive.

Peanut didn't get his wet food yesterday and he's been begging like a fiend for the past hour or so... I'm going to call today and find out exactly how much the vet wants him to be fed of the wet food.

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Ahhhh... didn't know the vet had recommendations. I'd stick with what your veterinarian has suggested you do.

I'm totally with Minka, etc. on this - not only is the very little nutritional training vets receive given by the pet food industry itself, vets receive money for the foods they sell.

Both of these present a very large conflict of interest, yet, if the veterinarian never does his/her own nutritional research, he/she could truly think the foods they're selling are healthy.

Orangeishcat, your kitty isn't on prescription food - that's great! AND, you've already done a trial run in which your little furface told you exactly what he needed, and it ISN'T that high-priced, heavy-grain, completely species-inappropriate Science Diet kibble.

Under these circumstances, there is no reason (in my opinion) for you to ask permission to change your cat's diet to something that obviously gives him more of what he needs.

Good luck!

AC

I'm actually going to start my degree in Veterinary Medicine, so I'll come back in 8 years and confirm whether they gave me proper nutrition training there or not.

Originally Posted by Minka

I'm actually going to start my degree in Veterinary Medicine, so I'll come back in 8 years and confirm whether they gave me proper nutrition training there or not.

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In three years I can tell everyone how well they train Vet Tech's about animal nutrition. Hmm, for that test do I tell them what I really think, or say what they want me to say

Originally Posted by furryfriends50

In three years I can tell everyone how well they train Vet Tech's about animal nutrition. Hmm, for that test do I tell them what I really think, or say what they want me to say

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I don't think they train Vet Techs in nutrition at all, but if there is a test, put down what they tell you to. XP

Originally Posted by Minka

I don't think they train Vet Techs in nutrition at all, but if there is a test, put down what they tell you to. XP

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Actually, at least at the school I am going to, Vet Techs are trained about nutrition. Or, at least some food rep probably comes in, and tells us why Science Diet is the only food to feed pets, and hands out bags of samples

Originally Posted by furryfriends50

Actually, at least at the school I am going to, Vet Techs are trained about nutrition. Or, at least some food rep probably comes in, and tells us why Science Diet is the only food to feed pets, and hands out bags of samples

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Well, at least you can donate them to TNR organizations

Originally Posted by NutroMike

Totally agreed Robin. If you think your vet is qualified, knows your animals and you trust him/her; do not listen to the armchair experts. Nothing can replace the advice you will be getting from a qualified, licensed professional. And yes, a second opinion can be very useful if you don't think your current vet has given you the best advice.

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I'm sorry to say - that as a one time vet tech student the "arm chair" experts are correct. The vets are "taught" by "experts" that come in who are reps from food companies. That's why we have so many problems with our pets now! The food -poison- that is put into their bodies! The stuff at most vet's offices accounts for a HUGE portion of the income generated into a vet clinic and they depend on that income every month. I don't think it's malicious in anyway but at the end of the day a Vet's office is a BUSINESS and treated as such and food sales are just that - SALES!

Your vet recommends what he SELLS in his office - not what you can buy in another store. YES YES ALWAYS take advice with a grain of salt - and that includes your VET!!! Someone graduated by the skin of their teeth! Not every Doctor is the best one out there.

Do your own research - investigate a product and a company!! I'm sooo glad to find a group of people with minds of their own! I fight my family all the time about pet food and how bad most of it is! If they see a commercial saying it's good then they believe it

I personally feed Orijen and Weruva. For now - subject to change if the company does. www.truthaboutpetfood.com will change how you think forever.

Originally Posted by KittyMom4

I'm sorry to say - that as a one time vet tech student the "arm chair" experts are correct.

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LOL - Well, it has been my very long time experience that tells me a completely different story on the "arm chair" experts. In particularly on the Internet and especially on pay per click websites. That said, I've learned a great deal about they type of nutrition education veterinarians receive in vet school and it is sadly, sadly lacking. My cousin is married to a veterinarian and I talked to him at a family get together about this very issues a week ago.

Basically what it boils down to is if you have a good vet, they will educate themselves on pet nutrition. However, many of them go by the minimal AAFCO standards

Originally Posted by NutroMike

LOL - Well, it has been my very long time experience that tells me a completely different story on the "arm chair" experts. In particularly on the Internet and especially on pay per click websites. That said, I've learned a great deal about they type of nutrition education veterinarians receive in vet school and it is sadly, sadly lacking. My cousin is married to a veterinarian and I talked to him at a family get together about this very issues a week ago.

Basically what it boils down to is if you have a good vet, they will educate themselves on pet nutrition. However, many of them go by the minimal AAFCO standards

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If you know how paltry the nutrition education vets get is, why do you recommend to people to always follow their vet faithfully and not change food without their permission??

Originally Posted by Minka

If you know how paltry the nutrition education vets get is, why do you recommend to people to always follow their vet faithfully and not change food without their permission??

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A lot of folks acknowledge that vets lack nutritional training on their patients, and yet advocate strict obedience to only to their vets' advice. This doesn't make sense to me (unless someone has a low tolerance for risk and is simply advocating the "safest" recommendation, which I completely understand), so I would be interested in the answer to this question, too.

Thanks!

AC

Originally Posted by Minka

If you know how paltry the nutrition education vets get is, why do you recommend to people to always follow their vet faithfully and not change food without their permission??

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Who is to say who is right or wrong Minka? You claim to be training to become a vet. What is going to happen when you give sound advice to a patient's parent and they immediately go to the Internet and take someone else's advice? The cat does not respond well to said advice and you wind up with a big mess on your hands. It's a catch 22 IMO. Yes, I agree getting information from verifiable sources on the Internet is a great thing, and it's one of the reasons that makes the Internet so useful. It will help the pet owner make an informed decision on their pet's care. However, there are a lot of "arm chair" experts on the Internet that give advice that is at best, ancedotal and their blogs and sites make me skeptical more often than not.

I firmly believe in following a veterinarian's course of action. If I've found something I feel might work better, I discuss it with the vet. I'm lucky to have a really good veterinarian for my cats and dogs. My vet is also very open to suggestion and will investigate what I think might work and then we'll go from there. Not all people are as lucky to have a vet like that. That much I realize. But, if you can't trust the vet you're seeing, change vets. Personally I just feel like I'm doing the right thing by listening to my vet and not necessarily some anonymous person typing out medical advice on a keyboard.

Originally Posted by Auntie Crazy

A lot of folks acknowledge that vets lack nutritional training on their patients, and yet advocate strict obedience to only to their vets' advice. This doesn't make sense to me (unless someone has a low tolerance for risk and is simply advocating the "safest" recommendation, which I completely understand), so I would be interested in the answer to this question, too.

Thanks!

AC

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I answered to Minka's post. So, who's advice do you take Auntie Crazy? A veterinarian's or someone you met on the Internet?

Edited - I forgot to say; There is nothing more valuable than someone else's positive experience with food, training or any other thing you might think of. You can find much of that on the Internet and I find it to be invaluable sometimes. When it comes to my pet's health, I will always work with the vet if possible, in particularly if I've found something I would like to try to bring my pet back to good health.

Originally Posted by Auntie Crazy

A lot of folks acknowledge that vets lack nutritional training on their patients, and yet advocate strict obedience to only to their vets' advice. This doesn't make sense to me (unless someone has a low tolerance for risk and is simply advocating the "safest" recommendation, which I completely understand), so I would be interested in the answer to this question, too.

Thanks!

AC

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If I listened to my vets advice, I'd still be feeding Science Diet dry, no wet, to my cats. Panther would be dead, Jack & Jill would have had their eyes removed, Amiga would still be 4lbs vs. 8 lbs, Clover would be horribly underwieght, Mikey would still be throwing up every day,...

All vets here recommend junk food - Science Diet, Iams, Nutro, Cat Chow, or whatever is on sale at the grocery store for the lowest price. Your pretty much get yelled at for even mentioning the possibility of feeding wet food. Yes, they are very smart people, and really know their stuff when it comes to medical issues. But they sure don't when it comes to nutrition, which is why I don't listen to them about it, choosing to research on my own. There are some amazing resources available to pet owners on the internet - catinfo.org, fnes.org, huge facebook/yahoo groups dedicated to the topic of nutrition/raw feeding, etc.

IMO, all vets should be locked up in a room with the book "Not Fit For a Dog", and have to read it before being let out

Originally Posted by NutroMike

I answered to Minka's post. So, who's advice do you take Auntie Crazy? A veterinarian's or someone you met on the Internet?

Edited - I forgot to say; There is nothing more valuable than someone else's positive experience with food, training or any other thing you might think of. You can find much of that on the Internet and I find it to be invaluable sometimes. When it comes to my pet's health, I will always work with the vet if possible, in particularly if I've found something I would like to try to bring my pet back to good health.

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For anything related to the huge amount of training and education my (cat-only) veterinarian received, I discuss the situation thoroughly with him and most likely will do exactly as he advises. Not blindly, but because I understand the options and believe his course of action has the best chance of succeeding. If it doesn't, and he's at a loss, you can bet I'm coming to the internet for some good old-fashioned research, the results of which I'll bring back to him for more discussion and perhaps a tweak of his recommendations.

When it comes to nutrition, and health related to diet, my vet asks me questions. And then we discuss, just as before.

And the question shouldn't be phrased as an either / or scenario. Nobody knows everything, including my awesome vet. For me, it's an analysis, "given the preponderance of information I have, and the biases inherent in the sources, what's the most valid path forward?"

In these cat forums, I toss out my experiences and opinions on all kinds of topics, but when it comes to nutrition, I advise, recommend, encourage, and sometimes even cajole; it's probable, on this topic, I fit your description of an "arm chair expert".

But one of my strongest messages (hopefully!) is the importance of making your own decisions, including conducting your own due diligence. Research, review, analyze, decide - yourself! There is a reason feline nutrition sites invariably recommend raw, and you can, through research and analysis, uncover that reasoning yourself, independent of those sites. Heck, the Feline Nutrition Education Society didn't even exist when I first started digging into feline nutritional needs! There is also a reason veterinarians recommend Science Diet and the other kibble and canned products they sell - and that reason, too, can be uncovered by independent research.

So, for me, a blanket "listen only to your vet" (or only to me, or only to your mom) recommendation is anathema. Instead, research to understand the topic, discuss with your vet, then make your decision.

Make sense?

AC

Ah, well... I seem to have started a debate. Sorry about that!!

As for Peanut, his new diet has been cleared by my vet- and per my own research and what I think is best for my cat, I also asked him about Taste of the Wild since it's available right up the street. He looked the ingredients over and said it would be fine, but if kitty starts packing on the pounds again it's back to the diet food.

Thanks for the advice, everyone!!

Originally Posted by orangeishcat

Ah, well... I seem to have started a debate. Sorry about that!!

As for Peanut, his new diet has been cleared by my vet- and per my own research and what I think is best for my cat, I also asked him about Taste of the Wild since it's available right up the street. He looked the ingredients over and said it would be fine, but if kitty starts packing on the pounds again it's back to the diet food.

Thanks for the advice, everyone!!

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You've no need to apologize, Orangeishcat; this is your thread and it is we who became side-tracked!

I'm glad you've settled on a new plan for Peanut. Let us know how it goes, ok?

Best regards!

AC

When it comes to medical issues I listen to my vet. For nutrition, I know that vets do not receive much of an education and unless I know the vet has taken further training in nutrition I prefer to do my own research. I would not take advice from just any internet site and act upon it. Fortunately, after 11 years on this site, I'm aware that there are some members here who have much knowledge to share and I'd listen to those persons re nutrition before even my vet.

I also do not just blindly trust advice from folks like vets who are biased toward the food they sell and make money on or have a vested interest in. I ask questions and get answers I can live with first. I do believe there are times when prescription food is needed so would not discount it completely.

Originally Posted by Auntie Crazy

For anything related to the huge amount of training and education my (cat-only) veterinarian received, I discuss the situation thoroughly with him and most likely will do exactly as he advises. Not blindly, but because I understand the options and believe his course of action has the best chance of succeeding. If it doesn't, and he's at a loss, you can bet I'm coming to the internet for some good old-fashioned research, the results of which I'll bring back to him for more discussion and perhaps a tweak of his recommendations.

<snip for space>

So, for me, a blanket "listen only to your vet" (or only to me, or only to your mom) recommendation is anathema. Instead, research to understand the topic, discuss with your vet, then make your decision.

Make sense?

AC

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It makes perfect sense in the fact that this is almost exactly what I stated in my post.

Make sense?

Originally Posted by orangeishcat

Ah, well... I seem to have started a debate. Sorry about that!!

As for Peanut, his new diet has been cleared by my vet- and per my own research and what I think is best for my cat, I also asked him about Taste of the Wild since it's available right up the street. He looked the ingredients over and said it would be fine, but if kitty starts packing on the pounds again it's back to the diet food.

Thanks for the advice, everyone!!

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No apology necessary! I am so very glad Peanut is improving. That is really good news