When it's time to give Strawberry up

This is just my opinion, so please don't be offended when I say this, but euthanizing a cat because it potties outside the litterbox is a HORRIBLE IDEA. My grandparents did it about eight years ago and my grandfather STILL feels guilty over it. Please, please do not put her down for this! I can understand how frustrating it is, but there might still be tests and such that can be run- other TCS members would know which ones better than I. Putting Strawberry down should be your very literal last resort. If she's had a lot of bladder infections, there might be an underlying cause that someone will be able to figure out.

As for the rest, if it's behavior-related...

Have you tried Nature's Miracle on the couch? It's supposed to work wonders for getting rid of past odors and such. You'd be amazed at how well cats can smell and find places they've been even when you think you've cleaned it thoroughly. There are also Feliway plug-ins to make kitties relax and feel happy. What kind of litter do you use, and how many boxes do you have? Have you tried switching litters?

Also, is Strawberry declawed? That can make a difference, too. I'm assuming she's fixed, you didn't specify- but if she isn't, that would also be something you need to look into.

Again, I hope I don't sound overly harsh or anything- I just want to make sure you don't have to say goodbye to one of your best furry friends if it's not necessary!

Wow... what a difficult situation. I'm so glad you've done all of those things for her, and I honestly hope someone else here can help you with more information or a similar story. Good luck to you and Strawberry, you are both in my prayers!

Since the other options are dumping her off on the road in a rural area which is incredibly cruel, not to mention illegal, or taking her to the pound where she will most likely be euthanized, alone and frightened, having her put to sleep safely in her owner's arms is actually the best of the three choices, in my opinion.

Instead do this:

Find another vet and ask about medication. Amitriptyline is often quite helpful in a case like this.

While starting her on medication, do a retrain. Keep her in a very small area with just her litter boxes, bed, toys, food and water. Usually two weeks is the prescribed time. While she is having this retraining, get an enzymatic cleaner and thoroughly clean all soiled areas. It has to be an enzymatic cleaner made specifically for pet stains and urine. Enzymatic means breaks down bacteria. If you don't use one, the odor remains and she will continue to use the areas.

Use Cat Attract litter in the litter boxes.

Install feliway plug in diffusers.

Welcome to TCS. I can tell you don't really want to give up on Strawberry, and Einstein would be devastated. Please don't dump her on a "farm/rural" area, that would be terribly cruel, and is illegal. She would not survive long, and it would be better to have her euthanized, rather than left to starve to death, be attacked by predators, or smashed by a car.

Just chiming in because something in your post caught my attention. You say you use the recycled paper litter in all of her litter boxes...my one female will not go anywhere near a box with paper litter - She peed behind shelves and in the back of closets when we tried. The minute we switched to a clumping, she was back to normal.

I know you've tried a load of things, and this probably seems overly simplistic, but this just reminded me of my experience. I'll second the suggestion to try Cat Attract litter - that stuff is great.

Good point about the litter.

Mistyb...do try the medication and the cat attract litter. And if all else fails, and you do decide that she "has to go", euthanasia would really be the kindest thing. There are much much worse things than death.

I don't the OP was necessarily talking about dumping the cat in a rural area... If she truly has tried everything, and can no longer keep the cat, then a nice farm where she would be well fed, and have somewhere warm to sleep, and can pee anywhere she likes may be just what she needs.

I agree with Cat Attract and considering an antidepressant - it may help a chemical imbalance in her brain.

Good luck!

On a side note - I urge members to show compassion, and not immediately judge the OP. She's obviously tried many things, is upset and frustrated, and is looking for help, so if you cannot offer help, please refrain from posting. Thanks

I agree that you should try amitriptyline and Cat Attract litter first (my cats won't use paper litter either. An unscented scoopable clay litter is most easily accepted by the majority of cats). Since it doesn't sound like you've tried those things yet, I think they're worth trying.

If all else fails, of your choices, having her put to sleep by your own vet is the best. If you dump her at a shelter, she'll die alone and scared with strangers (even a young healthy cat with no behavioral problems has very little chance of getting out of a shelter alive), and if you dump her in the country. . .well, beside being illegal, dumping a housecat in the wild is probably the cruelest thing a person can do--they really have no chance of survival and will die quite unpleasantly. If she must die, it's best she dies peacefully with people she knows.

Is building her an outdoor enclosure an option at all? I know a lot of people have done that for kitties with litterbox issues.

There are some rural dwellers (not usually subsistence farmers) who will take in cats, and take good care of them, keeping them confined until they're used to the place, feeding them well, providing vet care, etc. If one of those can be found for her, I would recommend that. But just leaving her at any random farm (with or without permission) would not be good. Most housecats who are taken to farms (and not given special care) don't last a week.

I have farm kitties who are well cared for - one includes a chronic sprayer.

That said I had one of my own who would pee outside the box, with the help of behavior modification medications I did stop her long-term habit. So if you're willing to try one more thing talk to your vet about medications.

Please don't think for a minute we don't understand... We do... You are not by far the only one with the problem here.... Many, many of us had this problem and found solutions for it, me being one of them...
It is frustrating, I know, but it can done.
IMHO your girl does have a medical problem and her behavior comes with it. Her history of bladder inflammation speaks volumes. Pain is the #1 reason for peeing outside of the box, and not liking the litter/litterbox itself (being the litter itself, location, litterbox design, cleanliness) is the #2 reason. You are using a litter on all boxes that many cats do not approve of.
IMHO your kitty has been sending you a message, and you have to listen to her...
Unfortunately, her way to do this, is by peeing outside of the box... that is a loud message in kitty's terms - they do not like to do that... Cat's are very clean creatures and do not like making their environment a litterbox.
I hope you do reconsider your options.... We will be here to help you.... Many many of us have been through it and found the other side - we still have our kitties and are living in peace with them. There are many solutions to try before you do that.
When you say you tried everything, maybe your everything isn't everything out there... I hope one of us can help you

We have a female with bladder problems. We know your pain.

We switched to using the Cat Attract, added Feliway diffusers throughout the house, put her on amytriptaline - and she started peeing in the box inside of three days. Amitryptaline is an old antidepressant that never worked very well as an antidepressant. It does have an interesting side effect though - it causes you to retain your urine. For whatever reason, this often helps cats start using the box again. Spooky used to pee once a day - a huge pee - when on the amytriptaline. It is used for children who wet their beds.

It did make her sleepy for the first three weeks, and she did gain some weight. But she ... balanced it out, I guess, is the best way to say it, and after those first three weeks was herself again. She was on it for about three-four months before we started weaning her off (you can't just stop using it, you have to gradually lower the dose).

But that gave us the time we needed to properly clean up the house while she started using the box again.

As to the couch... we found that even with the Nok Out we had to treat the cushions at least three times any time she peed on it. Because cat pee wicks, you have to really SOAK it, like Carolina says. And then it takes weeks to dry out.

What we'd do is soak the cushion. Then blot up as much as we could. We then put aluminum foil down over the top of it, and a blanket on top of that so we could still sit on the couch. Same for the floors... you have to really soak the carpet (down to the floor boards). Because it would always take a few days to dry, again, we'd cover the area up with aluminum foil so it didn't get our feet wet if we forgot and stepped on the area. That also discourages the cat from peeing there again just because the smell is there.

Get a black light and go through your home. You'll be able to see pee splotches. I've seen people describe them as green. The always look orange to me. Either way - they're evident. Find all the places you need to clean, and give them a good soak. Blot up the excess after 15 minutes or so, and just let them air dry.

http://www.nokout.com Sounds to me like you may need a few gallons.



Oh - after about a year, when she peed outside the box again, off to the vet she went. They found nothing wrong, but she needed a dental. She needed a tooth removed. The peeing outside the box stopped. It wasn't until the next year when the same thing happened - and she had another tooth extracted - and we realized that as soon as that was done she stopped peeing outside the box. Now she gets a dental every six months, so it hasn't happened again. But our Spooky pees when she's in pain - even if it has nothing to do with her bladder. Just a thought.

I'm glad you're not giving up on Strawberry just yet. I admit I haven't read all the replies, but in addition to what you're doing, I'd encourage you to try a Feliway diffuser and/or Rescue Remedy. Some of her behavior may be stress related and both of these would help with that. I'd start with the diffuser first since it's not something you have to worry about getting in her.

Please, take her to the vet immediately - this is not a behavioral problem - your girl is in medical trouble and in a lot of pain
When my cat did this I scooped him 2am and took him to the ER. I am sorry, but going in and out of the box like that, trying to pee and not being able to and blood in the urine (the red you are seeing is blood ), in my book is an emergency.
This poor kitty is in pain... Please do not be impatient with her as though she is doing something wrong... she is really not... She is just sick the poor thing and in pain... a lot of pain
I would go to another vet since you have been going to this one for so long without results. Instead of only a urinalysis, make sure to get a culture

Oh my gosh, yes. Agree with every word. Poor little girl. Please do find another vet.

Poor thing.
I hope she gets to the vet quickly.

Just adding another thought here, though it is expensive. Tuxie was peeing outside the box frequently, like he was blocked - only he wasn't. But he was clearly in distress. He did have a problem with crystals before though. The vet did an MRI and found nothing. We treated him for "idiopathic cystitis" (bladder irritation of unknown origin, no real solution other than just lowering stress and some anti-inflammatories. ).

After another week of Tuxie clearly being in serious distress, the vet suggested we get a high resolution MRI. THAT turned up a small crystal embedded in the wall of his bladder. It was surgically removed - and no more problems.

But peeing blood... is definitely an infection (and potentially other problems). I did read through the whole thread - but don't remember. When was the last blood panel? Perhaps she's developed a kidney problem?

^ Exactly this. Excellent advice. Let us know how it goes.

mistyb, please keep us updated on Strawberry!

Ducman69, I hope you read the latest developments that this cat is peeing blood, jumping in and out of the box and not able to pee? This cat need a vet now, as opposed of being locked in a room with litter boxes, feliway and cat attract. That can be done, sure, it is an excellent idea, but this cat is clearly sick and needs urgent vet attention first...

Hello mistyb,

Well, it's leaves me a bit sad to think of the options you're planning on doing. You've had Strawberry practically all her life for 7 years. To her, you're her parent. Even though she may not show it the way you want her to, she has bonded to you in her own way. She has to after 7 years!

I feel if you abandoned her at a farm, she would miss you and her brother Einstein. I don't know if animals are like humans in that regard, but if someone whom I bonded with for years dropped me off far away from home and left me, I would be terribly hurt and sad, depressed and lonely. Maybe cats can quickly move on emotionally, or maybe they feel sadness and loneliness too. If so and your cat is depressed now that would really make her feel worse and she may roam the hills forever looking for her long, lost loves -- you and her brother Einstein. I think in your quiet times, you'd miss her too and so would Einstein, and I think you'd wish you'd never done that.

On to your other solution. The only time I would put a pet down is if it was in serious pain and putting it down was more humane than having it live with the pain. If the bladder problem isn't causing serious pain I wouldn't do that either. A cat in that condition sent to the humane society would most likely be put down too.

Here are my suggestions:

First and foremost if your cat is peeing blood, you need to to go a vet and if that vet can't figure it out go to another one. It's either an infection, stones, and even cancer.

If you've ruled out disease try these suggestions:

Get a medium to large cage and put this in the house in a quite, private place. Put a cloth over half of the cage so it's partly private. Put a clean litter box in there with food and water and a comfortable place to sleep. Keep Strawberry in there when you are asleep and not home to watch her. When you're home, make sure she pees and poops before you let her out. The cage can help train her to use the litter and give her a place where she feels comfortable and safe and familiar.

If I were you, I'd get rid of the paper litter. I just discovered a littler called "The World's Greatest Cat Litter" It's all natural and made from corn cobs. It is a highly effective clumping litter, but isn't sticky and gummy like clumping clay litter is. This clumps better than clay but dry. It's very soft on the cats feet.

Another thing to consider is some cats will refuse to use a littler box if another cat has used it, or they think another cat can use it. Giving Strawberry her own cage and own litter box might help solve this. Keep the litter box clean at all times, at least once in the morning and once in the evening and on the weekends if you're home, once in the afternoon too. Every once in a while when Strawberry is walking around, gently take her to her cage and place her in the clean littler box, just to show her and reminder her where it is, and to see if she needs to go pee.

Most cats are very smart and they can develop personality issues based upon something simple that may have happened. Something you may not be aware of.

For example, when I got my cat a year ago, he was chasing me around playfully, but when I did the same to him, he got scared and for a month gave me the cold shoulder treatment and wouldn't have anything to do with me. I had to really show him I was sorry before he warmed back up to me. Now he's my best friend. However I still have to reassure him everything is okay if he is startled.

So my point being is maybe something happened to Strawberry that you're not aware of, something simple that you thought was no big deal, but to your cat was a major issue. Maybe something happened that makes her feel nervous or scared and so she looses control of her bladder. Don't get angry at her or raise your voice if she does loose bladder function in an inappropriate place. This will only make her more scared, more nervous more likely to not hold her bladder. Additionally, I don't know if you do this but don't point at the inappropriate place she pees and scold her. She won't understand that and may think you're telling her that's where she should go pee, and you're mad because she didn't pee more in that spot. Cats can misunderstand very easily. Instead do the following:

When you do see Strawberry use the litter box, show her how pleased your are! Hold her and hug her and talk softly to her and give her a cat treat. She will eventually associate using the littler with pleasure and happiness and being a good kitty. Do this each and every time you see her use the little box. If you catch her peeing anywhere but the litter box, take her to the littler box after you notice it and set her in the litter box and close the cage and leave her in there for awhile.

There could be some medical issue from the infections that is causing her not to be able to control her bladder function properly, so it may not be her direct fault.

keep trying, and I hope things work out for you and Strawberry

Hi Mistyb,
Your first priority should really be taking care of this urinary tract infection, that she clearly has... The other medication will take care of the behavior, but IMHO it should not be prescribed to a cat with infection, crystals or inflammation. The reason being is that these cats need to pee as much as possible to flush the bacteria and crystals out, while the medication makes them hold the urine in. She needs to be healthy to take that. That will come after your girl is treated, not at the same time.
Please, please take take her to the vet ASAP.... A UTI is so painful... That is the reason for her to go out of the box... If you don't fix that first, nothing will...
Your girl needs proper antibiotics, maybe an anti-inflammatory (no metacam, watch for that) and pain killers... A lot of times, just getting rid of the pain make them pee in the box again...

Misty, I'm so glad you decided not to give up! I knew the members here would have great ideas- I learn so much from them every day.

GOOD LUCK!!

Mistyb, have you ever had a urinatry tract or bladder infection? I have. They are really painful. Please take Strawberry to any vet to address this. Just because there is no more blood doesn't mean the problem is gone.

Also, when there you can provide them with the information as to why you want to prescribe amitryptaline - and give them the further information about how it's jused in children, and the experiences of those of us at The Cat Site about how it helps a kitty retain urine and thus return to using the box. But also let them know you want to take care of her infection before using it. Many vets are willing to work with you (at least good ones are if they understand why you want to try something they've never used before. I'm sure they can also look up its use on vet med forums they have access to).

But like Carolina mentions - her infection needs to be treated before anything else.

"So, Strawberry seems to be doing okay. I've been giving her 800mg of Valerian at night and she seems less stressed and not going in and out of the litterbox like she used to a couple of days ago. I also have on some calming music for her in her room. "

Stress can cause inflammation of the bladder (cystitis), as can a bacterial infection.

I've also read that herbal oils used for aromatherapy have worked when the scent is throughout the house. Don't use the cheap, grocery store synthetic stuff. Health food stores have natural aromatherapy oil blends for calm and relaxation or anti-anxiety. That may also help ease your stress too!

"I'm having a hard time finding a vet to prescribe amitriptyline. I'm looking for a new vet to prescribe that (if it's necessary) and to do an urinalysis and culture at the same time. I've called 3 vets so far, including our current one, and they don't prescribe it. Any advice on finding a vet who prescribes this?"

I wouldn't worry so much on finding a vet to prescribe Amitriptyline, but just get her to a vet to have her bladder problem looked at. You can deal with the cause (i.e. neurological, etc..) afterward.

A small amount of blood when she first urinates is most likely an issue with the bladder or urethra such as bacteria lodged in the bladder wall. If it goes unchecked it could lead to bladder cancer. If you see blood constant in the full urine stream it is most likely a kidney issue which can be a serious health problem.

"Tomorrow I'm going out to buy the new cat attract litter. Also, how often should I replace the litterbox? I have 4 and they are in good shape and very clean, but they're 3-5 years old. Should I buy a new litterbox also?"

If your cat is the type that has suddenly developed an uneasy feeling of using another cat's litter box, the scent of the other cat may be enough to cause some unrest. Plastics do absorb odors over time.

"Any advice on keeping stray cats away and cleaning their urine off outside (grill cover, house door, etc.)?"

Here are some product suggestions, each one has it's unique method:

1) Contech CatStop Ultrasonic Outdoor Cat Deterrent
http://tinyurl.com/contech-catstop

2) Mini ScareCrow Automatic Animal Deterrent
http://tinyurl.com/mini-scarecrow

3) Motion Activated Sprinkler - Animal Water Blaster
http://tinyurl.com/motion-sprinkler

4) Organic animal repellent spray
http://tinyurl.com/cat-repellent-spray

Concerning your question about how often to replace litter boxes:

I keep 2 sets of boxes in my home. When I change the litter in them, I rotate in a clean box and use a mild bleach solution to clean out the dirty one. Bleach isn't all that good for cats, so after I wash it with the solution, I rinse it out thoroughly and then let it sit in the sun so that the sun can bleach it out some more.

I keep both covered and uncovered litter boxes in my house, and the uncovered ones are used about 90% of the time. While some cats prefer the privacy of closed boxes, I find that most of the time they like open boxes. If yours are closed, consider buying open ones.

I've also found that the bigger the box, the more they like them. I buy large Sterilite storage bins (Rubbermaid works also) and use those as litter boxes. Not only are they cheaper, the cats like them far better than the smaller litter boxes.

Make the litter box attractive to Strawberry - a bigger box with Cat Attract litter.

And to second a previous recommendation, Nok Out works remarkably better than Nature's Miracle. I buy the 2 gallon jugs and apply liberally. I too have a chronic bladder issue with my Muddy and when his condition flairs up, the rest of the household responds to him by peeing out of the box. Muddy goes directly to the vet when any cat in my household pees outside the box.

It took a surgical biopsy to identify Muddy's problem - idiopathic cystitis. His bladder gets inflamed when he either eats the wrong food or he is highly stressed. When it inflames, he often gets infections or crystals and if left long enough, he blocks. If Strawberry has a chronic problem, it can be managed as long as you stay on top of it. Muddy hasn't had a major flare up in about 2-1/2 years. Muddy hates C/D, but we've found out that he really loves Purina UR canned food.