OK, this is the cat site. What are your thoughts on predation and TNR?

This is going to be very interesting to keep up with, great idea!

How many birds do cats - as individuals or as a group - kill a year? I don't think they kill nearly as many as we are supposed to believe they do. When I was growing up, we had two cats that were indoor/outdoor - in their entire lifetimes they maybe killed a total of 2-3 birds (that I know of). I suppose the difference could be between well fed pet cats and ferals/strays though.

Are they responsible for declines in bird populations?Personally, I think they may have some effect on it, but not enough to endanger a species. I think there are other things, man made or man influenced, that have caused bird populations to decline and that perhaps the people doing these studies aren't necessarily taking that into account and looking for other variables, such as cats, to blame it on.

Is TNR more effective than trap-and-kill? As an animal lover, I want to say no, BUT for some reason I'm leaning towards yes. With that being said, when we move, I will be starting to TNR at our home.

If people are aware of TNR programs, are they more likely to dump their cats? I believe so. Some people still have a bit of a conscience and would worry about their pet not getting food or having a safe place. If they knew about TNR programs I would think they would dump them close to, or in, one of the areas for piece of mind knowing that the cat would have access to food and a place to sleep.

Does a feral cat have a bad life? Do you think most of them are diseased or spreading disease? Do you worry about rabies? I don't necessarily think they have a bad life, just a different one. Yes, there are more dangers for them, but many of them seem perfectly happy to be outdoors - how many threads have we had about taming a feral cat? How many of those just couldn't be done, or how many are there that aren't posted? I do think it's safer for them to be indoors, but going from my past cats (that all began their lives indoor), they definitely seemed happier when they were outside. Our cat now is indoor only, but when we move she will be allowed in an enclosure that we are going to build - so I suppose we';; see for her.

I don't think they are mostly diseased or spreading disease, but I guess I haven't really thought of it either. With the number of TNR programs around the countries that we all live in, I think they are doing a good job to help control those diseases that there are. I've never shied away from petting a stray cat, but I do make sure to wash my hands very well before touching anything that my animals touch, or my animals, as soon as I can.

According to the American Pet Manufacturing Products Association (APPA), there are about 86 million pet cats in the U.S. Any idea how many feral cats there are? If you had to guess? I would guess at least double that.

A lot of us keep our cats indoors - some of us let them roam. What percent of people do you think let their cats roam? I would think that at least half of pet owners let their cats roam. I also think that the majority of those are misinformed or don't realize the consequences that come with allowing your pet to roam. I do not think ill of those people, though I do try to inform them politely when I can. They keep me up at night, lol.

Should there be "leash" laws? There are leash laws here and where my parents live. It doesn't stop people from letting their cats roam, IMO. Most people are under the assumption that their cat doesn't leave their property, and in some cases that's true (my old cats for example, they never left our yard). I think in theory it's a good idea, but in reality it's just a waste of money.

Mandatory spay/neuter laws? (Except for licensed breeders?) This has been brought up frequently on the dog sites that I belong to. I do not agree with it. It's another one of those laws that sounds good on paper but is a waste of time and money when put into use. Bottom line is that people do not like to be told what they can and cannot do, look at how many people don't even license their pets. I am guilty of not licensing our cat, but I do with our dogs. And what are the consequences of them not spaying/neutering? The cat gets taken away and then they just go out and get another one. The people that these laws generally target are not the ones that are causing the problems.

Does it MATTER that domestic cats aren't native to the U.S.? In what sense? From a wildlife point of view - I suppose... but then again there are a ton of other animals that hunt birds and other prey that feral/stray/pet cats might hunt. I think that stray dogs are more of a problem - they breed with coyotes and produce coydogs, a hybrid that looks like a friendly dog, with no fear of humans and no bite inhibition. IMO

Enough to create a negative impact.
Yes and no. The primary decline in bird populations IMO is changing habitat, some natural, and some man-made stresses. Having such a high population of unnatural predators in places like North America and Australia is one of many stress factors contributing to declines in bird populations.
I believe trap-and-kill would be more effective, but is inhumane. TNR is the only humane answer to cat overpopulation IMO.
I doubt its a significant factor, nor do I think the type of people that dump cats know what TNR is.
A life is better than no life, and there aren't enough homes, so its moot.
A whole whole whole lot. Its nearly impossible to drive around in Houston proper at night and not run across a cat here and there. But if you were on the lookout for a common native species here in Texas like an armadillo, chances are good you could go months without seeing one.
Too many percent.
Leash laws definitely, but not spay/neuter laws. While the latter just makes good sense, leash laws deal with public property, but no one has a right to decide how someone is humanely keeping their animals on their own private property. There are also less invasive means of sterilizing a cat than spay/neuter, which should be an option for caretakers.
With respect to how it affects the ecosystem, yes.

Is TNR more effective than trap-and-kill?
I would imagine that it isn't, but I would never support something like trap and kill
If people are aware of TNR programs, are they more likely to dump their cats?
No, I don't think people who dump their cats care either way.
Does a feral cat have a bad life? Do you think most of them are diseased or spreading disease? Do you worry about rabies?
No, they are not diseased, because of natural selection the ones that do survive are extremely fit for survival, and without any kind of vet care had they been diseased they would die very quickly, so a feral cat that looks healthy is most likely healthy IMO. And no, I don't worry about rabies because those feral cats are not likely to bite any human...
According to the American Pet Manufacturing Products Association (APPA), there are about 86 million pet cats in the U.S. Any idea how many feral cats there are? If you had to guess?
I would guess 10 times that amount
A lot of us keep our cats indoors - some of us let them roam. What percent of people do you think let their cats roam?
I think the people who let their cats roam are more than those who don't. If I had to give a number I would guess 60-70% of cat owners..
Should there be "leash" laws?
Yes, I think that would be a great idea, although it depends on how this is enforced- for example if there is a fee for letting a cat outside, it might discourage pet owners from having cats, or they may give up their cats to the shelter if they let them roam. All in all it's better for cats to be allowed to roam, than to be put to sleep at a shelter...
Mandatory spay/neuter laws? (Except for licensed breeders?)
I think it's a great idea, but similarly to the answer above, I think it might make pet owners less likely to adopt. I know people who have cats who are unaltered, but it's a single cat in a house where she is not allowed to go out....She is loved and taken care of, would I rather see her at a shelter, because the owners technically aren't being responsible in getting her altered?? I don't think so...
Does it MATTER that domestic cats aren't native to the U.S.?
No, IMO it doesn't. If we don't want the "harm" (which is completely subjective and impossible to measure) from species that have been introduced to continents where they are not native, we need to be careful not to introduce species from now on. What's been done has been done, in my eyes after having been introduced to North America, cats are now native to here.

How many birds do cats - as individuals or as a group - kill a year?

Bird catching is a skill that has to be learned. Many cats never learn it, but some are experts. We had friends in Bullhead City, AZ, who had an indoor/outdoor cat that caught at least one bird every day, and he frequently caught several in a day. And those are just the ones they saw or he brought home to eat. So, he might have been killing over 1,000 birds per year.

Are they responsible for declines in bird populations?

They are one of the factors, which include increased human populations, decreased natural predators, chemicals in the ecology, etc.

Is TNR more effective than trap-and-kill?

It certainly can be, since it reduces a breeding colony to a static colony. I've always thought at least one male in every such colony should be given a vasectomy, rather than a complete neuter, for reasons that will be obvious, if you understand cat physiology.

If people are aware of TNR programs, are they more likely to dump their cats?

Not if they really care about their cats.

Does a feral cat have a bad life?

You'd have to define the terms. They tend to live a short, brutal life.

Do you think most of them are diseased or spreading disease?

Virtually all of them will have heavy parasite loads, and giardia and coccidia are almost universal in them, due to their water sources.

Do you worry about rabies?

Not particularly.

According to the American Pet Manufacturing Products Association (APPA), there are about 86 million pet cats in the U.S. Any idea how many feral cats there are? If you had to guess?

I would guess the number of feral cats in many areas far outnumber the pet numbers. In an area such as our neighborhood, I would guess the number is somewhat smaller, due to space constraints. But our Animal Control catches more ferals than pets, usually. Or, to be more accurate, they catch more pets that have gone wild than pets that have just gone stray. A recent trapping push in one of our parks brought in 17 ferals and no pets.

A lot of us keep our cats indoors - some of us let them roam. What percent of people do you think let their cats roam?

These days, the number is getting smaller. Maybe 25% or less?

Should there be "leash" laws?

Yes, cats (and all pets) need to be on a leash or restricted to the owner's property.

Mandatory spay/neuter laws? (Except for licensed breeders?)

Yes.

Does it MATTER that domestic cats aren't native to the U.S.?

Of course, it matters. They aren't "native" to about 98% of their range today. They've been there a long time, in some of them, so we can't judge any more whether they have an impact on the ecology.

I'm OK with any predators killing any prey (its natural), but when an unnatural predator is introduced by man and is contributing to damaging the ecosystem, its man's responsibility to address that amongst other factors for the sake of biodiversity and quality of life for our children.

You could go rambo and outlaw feeding, set traps, poison colonies, intentionally spread feline disease, and go around w/ a semi-22LR or pistol caliber carbine in a country wide mass effort and I am confident it would quickly decimate cat populations, but I wouldn't wish that on any innocent creature, so TNR it is.

I believe the reason the TNR hasn't been successful though is that its not widely enough practiced, and if there is sufficient food source, then nearby cats still breed. After all, a single pair of cats can produce around 50 kittens conservatively over a five year lifespan if there is enough food. If that rate holds steady for each offspring, after about nine generations, you'd have a pair of cats per square foot of land surface. And TNR would be a great idea for nations that can't get their people birth rates below 4:1 as well!

I'm not going to respond to each question, but will offer this about trap and kill versus TNR.

I cared for a feral colony for about 13 years at my old house. During that time, I was finally able to control the population of that colony once I bought my own trap and made a concerted effort to neuter any cat that came onto my property. The colony size stabilized and we didn't have any new cats for a few years. The cats effectively kept other cats away from their territory.

When I moved, I trapped every last cat and relocated them into my new house. Within a week, the new owners called to ask if I left a female behind. Apparently she moved in immediately and had a litter.

If I had trap and killed the members of that colony, I would simply have had a never ending supply of feral cats in that area. TNR controlled the area. Trap and kill would not.

As far as predation and non-native species goes, I'm going to go out on a limb here. Humans brought cats into this country. Cats need to eat to survive. If the source of cats in this country (humans) doesn't provide the food that a cat needs, can anyone blame a cat for feeding itself? Humans kill all sorts of animals to eat. Cats kill a lot fewer species to eat. If you condone cats for killing birds, then what should we do with humans? Trap and kill?

How many birds do cats - as individuals or as a group - kill a year?
Depends on the cat. My outdoor cats have never seemed to get very many, and even when they do it seems to always be blackbirds and sparrows---birds targeted for eradication by humans anyway. I suspect they mostly get sick and injured birds.

Are they responsible for declines in bird populations?
Probably not. Maybe in ecologically sensitive areas with a lot of ground-nesting birds, but otherwise I think far more are killed by cars, windows, and poisons. I don't think most people realize the extent of bird poisoning campaigns (both federally supported and privately funded), and how many non-target species the poison kills.

Is TNR more effective than trap-and-kill?
I depends on your aim. Do you want to eradicate cats from the area? If so, a constant kill effort is required (and I doubt trap-and-kill would be effective at all. . .too many cats won't be trapped. Shooting and poisoning would be more effective, and you'd have to keep it up year-round). If your aim is to keep the cat population in any given area reasonably stable, then TNR is more effective. I won't editorialize about the morality of kill methods. . .the question is about effectiveness.

If people are aware of TNR programs, are they more likely to dump their cats?
Possibly. People are more willing to dump their cat in a particular area if they think it will be fed and cared for at the dump site. But generally, if a person is going to dump their cat nothing is going to make much difference. Location may be different but the cat will still be dumped.

Does a feral cat have a bad life? Do you think most of them are diseased or spreading disease? Do you worry about rabies?
Not unless you think a squirrel or a raccoon has a bad life. It's not a cushy indoor life but it's probably more interesting. My ferals play and seem to have a fine time, they aren't constantly stressed or anything. Disease, no, they seem quite healthy (ferals in general). Might be different in a more heavily populated urban area (and tame/semi-tame farm cats always look sick. Not sure why they're sick when ferals on the same farm are healthy). I don't worry about rabies but I wouldn't do anything to get myself bitten or scratched.

According to the American Pet Manufacturing Products Association (APPA), there are about 86 million pet cats in the U.S. Any idea how many feral cats there are? If you had to guess?
Oh, at least that many. I have more cats indoors than outdoors but I think that's rare . And are we counting sort-of-ferals, like tame/semi-tame farmcats? If so, at least twice as many.

A lot of us keep our cats indoors - some of us let them roam. What percent of people do you think let their cats roam?
Probably at least half. Maybe more.

Should there be "leash" laws?
No. It would be impossible (and expensive) to enforce and would end up killing ferals.

Mandatory spay/neuter laws? (Except for licensed breeders?)
No. This is an assault on freedoms, and is far too expensive to enforce. Municipalities that have enacted mandatory spay/neuter have not shown any benefits from it. In all cases, shelter kill rates go way up whenever a town enacts such a law. Spay/neuter should be encouraged at every opportunity and low-cost/free options should be readily available. But not forced.

Does it MATTER that domestic cats aren't native to the U.S.?
Not anymore, IMO. They've been here so long that they have basically become native and the ecosystem has adapted to their presence. Besides, if the cats are removed another predator will move in. . .and people tend to freak out over foxes living in their neighborhoods. People aren't generally scared of cats.

Devil's advocate here, but I haven't seen any TNR activities that have actually eliminated the cat populations from habitats. The idea behind TNR is that by not being able to reproduce, around five years later, there shouldn't be anymore cats as there are no kittens to replace them.

Fact though is that there are still plenty of cats, so the TNR at present is not effective and needs to be kicked up a notch on a federal level combined perhaps w/ breeding/feeding regulations IMO.

Man has proven that it can hunt any creature to extinction when motivated, but I don't think we want to go there, especially for domesticated creatures that have adapted to us and are essentially children and our responsibility as a society (to care for, but also be responsible for problems they cause).

If you read literature though on producing the most effective mousers, you will find that a WELL FED cat is a much better mouser than a hungry one. Hunting is instinct, and a well fed and healthy cat is just that much more efficient of a predator, it may just not eat what it catches, but it will to catch it which is completely natural. If a cat doesn't actually walk around with its prey, there's really no way to know how much it catches.

This very talented cat appears too well fed to be a feral for example, but has serious skills:
http://www.break.com/index/parkour-c...a-bird-2054076

Can't blame the cat for being a cat though, its their nature.

Why would it be harder to enforce than for small dogs?

I know exactly which of my neighbors has cats they let out (and those cat's names) and could easily report them, and others have collars that identify the owner. You can still be fined if your dog gets out by accident, but as long as my pet is returned to me, I'm sure most would be fine w/ that and more careful in the future... important thing is you have your munchkin back.

It also wouldn't kill the ferals if it were adopted simultaneously with a TNR policy. Catch a cat, verify it wasn't just a lost pet and neuter/spay, and return it to a designated colony area.

Because the law doesn't differentiate between a cat you "own" because you had it TNRed (or just feed it), and a cat you own because it actually lives with you. Any cat you feed for a certain amount of time is "yours". The laws would have to be changed so that they didn't apply to ferals, but then how do you prove a cat is feral? How do you prove a cat is a pet that should be kept indoors?

Because the only reason dog leash laws work is because a cop (or AC officer) sees a dog running loose, catches the dog, and fines the owners when they show up to claim the dog. If they see a cat running loose, how will they know if the cat is a feral or a pet, how will they catch the cat (even my tamest pets wouldn't let a big guy in uniform catch them), how will they make the owners claim their cats (reclaim rates for cats are dismal)?

Unless you force microchipping (which opens up a whole 'nother can of worms), there's just no way to prove ownership. You might know all the cats in your neighborhood, but how would the AC officer know who belongs to who? Unless they encourage neighbors to snitch on each other. . .hoo boy. That would be fun.

Well, a cat you feed is your cat, and would IMO need to be kept on private property or released to a TNR group to rehome to a designated colony. That makes things simple, if a cat is seen wandering about in a neighborhood, you instantly know it needs to be caught, ownership checked (tatoo, collar, micochip and if none then whoever first claims him/her), and if not claimed then spayed/neutered and released to a colony if its not deemed desirable for adoption.

After all, why is everything from a dog to an exotic kimodo dragon different than a cat? If three dogs show up at your house, and you feed them everyday, yeah they are your dogs now IMO and if ownership is denied then that's ok but they aren't left there to wander the neighborhood. *shrugs*

BTW, to add to the questions, would anyone support a law that animal shelters and adoption agencies have to microchip their pets? IOW, not require private citizens, but if there is an unclaimed cat or new kitten that doesn't belong to anyone that they would be required to microchip?

IMO it wouldn't be expensive done en-masse, and wouldn't violate anyone's rights on unowned animals. Upon adoption, it would then be easy to find the responsible owner, as the owner could be required to transfer ownership in case of rehoming the cat, otherwise still be liable for letting the cat wander or neglect the animal by dumping it or leaving it locked somewhere when moving etc.

Most shelters DO microchip their animals before adoption. Some adopters don't ever register the chip, and even when the shelter requires that they do, they give false info or they don't update their info when they move. Really, ask anyone who works at a shelter how effective microchips are (not very). They're only effective when the owner cares enough to make them effective.

I don't know where you think these "designated colonies" should be, or how you propose to keep the cats in those colonies. Most feral colonies are in residential neighborhoods. Even if people don't feed them, there's still a lot of garbage anywhere humans hang out. Sounds like you're proposing opening a lot of sanctuaries, not TNR. Nice, but expensive. Don't know who'd pay for that.

But the main reason cat leash laws aren't enforcable is because you aren't going to catch a cat who doesn't want to be caught. You can catch dogs because most of them can't jump/climb fences. And most dogs have had sufficient socialization that they won't fight too hard. So you get them cornered and catch them. Cats can't be cornered, and I doubt you want cops running through your fenced yard trying to catch a stray cat. And even pet cats fight HARD when you do catch them. Trapping is the only way, but it's not like you can see a cat wandering around, throw out a trap, and presto! you catch him. It would be a much more long-term kind of commitment (ask anyone who manages ferals).

I don't see how that kind of thing could be funded.

If microchipping is law, simple, ask for a legal form of identification upon adoption. Anyone wanting to adopt completely anonymous is too shady IMO anyway.

If someone is unreachable, at least they still have the name of the person, and the state would typically be able to locate them just fine, and MOST people I think would want a lost pet back. And if the fine is not paid, since they have the name, it'd be like an unpaid parking ticket. Try getting your license renewed with those outstanding. Its not foolproof, but seems better than nothing. *shrugs*

IMO, it is obvious that a feral colony of dogs would not be accepted in a residential neighborhood, so I'm not sure why its OK for cats. If you're feeding and caring for a domesticated animal, you're assuming ownership, and would need to confine your animals to private property. That applies to goats, pigs, cows, horses, dogs, chickens, snakes, etc. but for some reason not cats. Anyway, that's just my take on it at least.

In some places, there ARE feral dog colonies in the residential neighborhoods. Mostly poor neighborhoods in the larger cities--New York, Detroit, etc. Around here the reservations have a significant feral dog problem. And other countries all over the world have feral dogs, with varying methods of controlling them (many use TNR). But feral dogs can be dangerous. They're larger (the survivors are at least medium-sized. Small dogs don't last long out there) and more likely to be predatory to small humans, thus giving more of an incentive to deal with them in some way. Feral cats avoid humans, are small, and aren't dangerous. There's no incentive to deal with them, unless the population is so large as to be a noticable nuisance.

Besides, what you're proposing would still leave a predator vacuum, which other animals would move to fill. I'd rather have feral cats than foxes (who fill the same predatory niche as cats) and I'd rather have spayed/neutered and vaccinated feral cats providing a barrier to rabies than the fully wild trap-avoiders who would remain if all the other feral cats were relocated. The reason cats live somewhere is because there's a food source. This isn't always bowls of cat food on porches. The entire reason cats "domesticated" is because human habitation attracts rodents and cats eat rodents. Basically, there WILL be cats in any given area, no matter what humans do. We can try to control the population, but total eradication (or relocation) is impossible. Or, if you prefer Jurassic Park quotes, "life will find a way" .

Your method of dealing with ferals by mass relocation has none of the benefits of TNR (except the cats don't die) and all of the drawbacks.

I hope that if I feed the squirrels, nobody will make me keep them on my property .

As I understood it, feral colonies are provided food, no attempt is made to prevent access to non-neutered cats, and with sufficient food their population remains high. The "Eagle Lady" proved that, where in Alaska she provided 500lbs of freezer burned or in other ways unmarketable fish from her factory to bald eagles daily, starting with but two resident eagles that called the town home that grew to a population of approximately 300. Good intentions, but after she passed, the first thing the town did was ban feeding eagles.

If feral colonies in neighborhoods weren't fed, then their numbers would decline to what the habitat can support, and if TNR'd in sufficient numbers, then other native predators would be under less threat, helping maintain biodiversity IMO.

Feeding ferals without TNRing is a bad idea. But no cats would have been in the area in the first place if there was no food source. Humans make trash. Cats will eat trash if they have to. Human trash attracts rodents, cats eat rodents. Humans attract birds, cats eat birds. Even if nobody anywhere put food out specifically for the cats, they'd still find plenty to eat.

No native predators are endangered or threatened because of cats. If they are in any way endangered or threatened, it's because of human hunting/trapping/poisoning. Like I said, very few people want foxes in their residential neighborhoods. If they do show up, they're usually killed right away. Foxes are usually the only other predators willing to live in urban/suburban areas in any significant numbers. If there are no foxes or cats in a neighborhood, the rodent population explodes (it happened in my neighborhood when I first moved here. The neighbors trapped all the cats out and there were mice everywhere. And a rat in my garage. Blasted thing did a lot of damage). Really, humans need to have feral cats around; it's a symbiotic relationship.

Well, the main argument was whether it's possible to have a cat leash law without killing ferals. It just isn't, at least not in any plausible way I can see.

There is no annual fee, or needn't be. My cats are both microchipped, and the chips still have my information and always will. There is no charge.
Provide one example of where TNR has eliminated cats in an area. If TNR is successful, cats unable to reproduce would after their lifespan not be replaced, which for a feral would be evident in no more than ten years. This is one point that the wildlife advocacy groups bring up which is definitely true, whatever the reason for the lack of efficacy with current efforts. From what I have read, until you reach over 90% sterilization rate of a population, the population will only be restricted by available food sources.

Again, I support TNR, but TNR trapping and neutering with adopting out those that can and releasing those that cannot is a lot different than trapping, neutering, and providing a food source for all cats in the neighborhood which IMO is counter-productive to population control.

Animals that are fed and cared for in the back of someone's yard are informally adopted, and thus should be subject to leash laws just like every other domestic animal IMO.

There are a number of folks on this site who have worked with feral cats for many years, and what you are reading seems to be misleading.

You will never find a specific example where TNR has eliminated every cat in an area. The reason why it doesn't happen is, as long as humans don't care for their cats, there will always be a source of cats for feral colonies. TNR alone has never worked. It also takes things like low cost spay/neuter programs, public education, better management of animal shelters, etc to get the feral cat population under control. Trap and kill used by itself is actually worse than TNR. There's a great book by Nathan Winograd called Redemption on this topic. He's gotten shelter euthanasia rates down in various cities just by getting a number of parallel activities going at the same time. TNR is only one of these activities.

A managed feral colony will not eliminate itself in 10 years. Considering I just had a feral cat die last summer at age 18 (she showed up as a kitten), I know personally that feral cats can live a long time. I had many of my ferals live well past 10 years old.

My colony lived around my home, and I honestly have to chuckle about the thought of putting a leash on any of those cats. Yes I fed them in my back yard, but using the term "adoption" on most of them just doesn't apply to cats in a feral colony. I had a male named Larry who allowed me to touch him twice in his life - the first time when he was a kitten when I snatched him up to neuter him. The second time around age 12 when he was close to death.

And getting back to the topic of feral cats and birds, cats in my feral colony were great mousers. One of them (and I had dozens over the years) would actually catch a bird once in a while. We had bird feeders where we would sometimes see a hundred birds eating. The cats left them alone because 1) I fed them, and 2) mice were easier.

That's how we do it. You can't adopt without valid ID, and law requires that all adopted animals must be microchipped. In additon, any stray animals that are reclaimed by the owners must be microchipped before they're released.

Exactly the same way we do it here. I'm not totally sure if it's a law or a city ordinance, but it's required either way.

Plus, they will microchip already homed animals, large or small for $20.

One thing I've thought about from time to time when reading stories of people complaining about seeing cats "catching" birds is; are they actually seeing "catching" or just stalking. My neighbors cat will sit under my bird feeders for hours, just watching. I've never seen her even try to catch one. She just does her little "jungle cat" crouch in the grass and watches.

I do liken feeding ferals to feeding squirrels. They're essentially wild animals. Just because their relatives are domesticated doesn't mean they are (and I'm of the opinion that cats aren't fully domesticated anyway). I've met fully wild squirrels who are tamer than some of my ferals. Nobody tries to make anyone keep "their" squirrels on their property.

So, Ducman, you're saying that feral cats should be TNRed and not fed? I actually started feeding the ferals in my neighborhood because they kept getting into the garbage, making a huge mess. There were not fewer ferals in the neighborhood before I started feeding them. They were just more annoying. Now they're fat and lazy and don't get into anything. Why bother ripping into a trash bag when there's an auto-feeder full of Cat Chow down the block? Why expend energy jumping for healthy birds if you don't have to? Mice are more fun, and no feathers (I had one when I was a kid--not a feral but he roamed freely--who would catch a bird if it was annoying him (blackbirds are awful), but then would get mad about having to pull the feathers out before eating it, LOL. He didn't catch birds by choice. His favorites were bunnies and gophers, which the gardeners in the neighborhood were glad of). Well-fed cats are less troublesome.

I started TNRing because I felt sorry for the females and the toms kept fighting. Not because of the population (the population seemed to be pretty steady. I don't know if the kittens died or moved to other neighborhoods).