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Bin Laden is dead! - Page 3

post #61 of 225
5/2/11 at 12:31pm
If you want to strap a bomb to someone and hit a random soft target, yes, that doesn't take much.

But if you want to pull off a highly coordinated attack, you need educated, connected, and well funded leadership and that is NOT easy to replace.

Leaderless, Al Qaeda quite simply is weak.

And the people may not be celebrating his death, but I'll certainly toast to it myself. Eliminating a mass murdering terrorist and serving justice for his thousands of victims makes me feel good, as I don't think of him any different than Hitler and see no need for compassion or mourning for a monster like that. If anything, I would have gone for a nut shot first.
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post #62 of 225
5/2/11 at 12:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hissy View Post
No one is going to win the war on terror- it is a never-ending war I am afraid.
Truer word was never spoken.
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post #63 of 225
5/2/11 at 12:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblanche View Post
You would never see Americans dancing in the streets over the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. You saw dancing in the streets when the Germans were defeated, and when the Japanese surrendered. Very different things.

On 9/11, we saw people celebrating mass slaughter of innocents. If you're having trouble making these distinctions, there are plenty of people here who can explain it to you.
There's no distinction, there is merely perspective and hypocrisy. Those dancing in Palestine on 9/11 saw the attacks as a victory against an enemy. Those dancing in the US today see this strike as a victory against an enemy. Killing is killing, dead is dead, and celebrating killing is ghoulish.

This "one bad, one good" idea is simple hypocrisy is it's rawest form.
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post #64 of 225
5/2/11 at 12:51pm
On a lighter note, last night on the ABC News live stream, the caster said Obama was dead. Very similar names, so I can understand the slip.

Global made the same mistake:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMAlXQ5Bspg

Even Geraldo made the slip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zym1FdRO9jo

On Fox News though, the caster said "President Obama is dead".... freudian slip?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMP7Ys57ha4
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post #65 of 225
5/2/11 at 12:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducman69 View Post
If you want to strap a bomb to someone and hit a random soft target, yes, that doesn't take much.

But if you want to pull off a highly coordinated attack, you need educated, connected, and well funded leadership and that is NOT easy to replace.

Leaderless, Al Qaeda quite simply is weak.

And the people may not be celebrating his death, but I'll certainly toast to it myself. Eliminating a mass murdering terrorist and serving justice for his thousands of victims makes me feel good, as I don't think of him any different than Hitler and see no need for compassion or mourning for a monster like that. If anything, I would have gone for a nut shot first.
There was no justice, there was a firefight. Cases against suspects killed during apprehension are closed or dismissed in US courts, so as far as justice goes, this doesn't actually count as anything.
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post #66 of 225
5/2/11 at 12:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippymjp View Post
There's no distinction, there is merely perspective and hypocrisy. Those dancing in Palestine on 9/11 saw the attacks as a victory against an enemy. Those dancing in the US today see this strike as a victory against an enemy. Killing is killing, dead is dead, and celebrating killing is ghoulish.

This "one bad, one good" idea is simple hypocrisy is it's rawest form.
You're absolutely right, anyone that makes a distinction between the death of thousands of innocent civilians and a mass murdering terrorist with plans for continued killing of women and children is simply a hypocrite.

You're doing all these mental gymnastics to come to such odd conclusions finding fault where none is to be found. Just stand back for a minute, try to reflect impartially, and use a common sense outlook on all this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippymjp View Post
There was no justice, there was a firefight. Cases against suspects killed during apprehension are closed or dismissed in US courts, so as far as justice goes, this doesn't actually count as anything.
Suspects? Legal interpretations? This is Osama Bin Laden, the known and self admitted mass murderer of innocent civilians... come on now, you seem like an intelligent guy, so I don't think you buy that yourself.
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post #67 of 225
5/2/11 at 1:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb View Post
Going by your logic and that quote every Christian follows what the Pope says, which is patently untrue.



That is exactly what is being celebrated from what I saw and heard the people themselves say last night on the news.

They are not celebrating his death, per se. The celebrations would have happened whether he was captured or killed.

Again--it's the VICTORY, not the killing, that is celebrated.
The killing was the victory. There isn't really a rational way to separate the two.
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post #68 of 225
5/2/11 at 1:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducman69 View Post
You're absolutely right, anyone that makes a distinction between the death of thousands of innocent civilians and a mass murdering terrorist with plans for continued killing of women and children is simply a hypocrite.
Finding reason to celebrate in the death of any number of people requires a very terrorist supporting mindset.

Quote:
You're doing all these mental gymnastics to come to such odd conclusions finding fault where none is to be found. Just stand back for a minute, try to reflect impartially, and use a common sense outlook on all this.
There's no gymnastics required. Celebrating death after we ourselves so adamantly condemned celebrating death is hypocrisy. I've said it before, the Israelis reaction to their special operations has long been the most effective one...and that is to simply say, "well, that's done" and go home.
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post #69 of 225
5/2/11 at 1:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippymjp View Post
Finding reason to celebrate in the death of any number of people requires a very terrorist supporting mindset.

There's no gymnastics required. Celebrating death after we ourselves so adamantly condemned celebrating death is hypocrisy. I've said it before, the Israelis reaction to their special operations has long been the most effective one...and that is to simply say, "well, that's done" and go home.
So now I'm a terrorist?

What I find so confusing, is that you seem incapable of distinguishing between a truly evil individual hell bent on spreading hate and killing women and children and would behead your family in front of you and televise it for shock factor, and thousands of innocent people just living their lives totally indifferent just concerning themselves with what they were going to do for dinner and looking forward to a new movie coming out.

Most rational level headed people are able to make that distinction, and I feel confident that you on some level do as well, but are too focused on trying to spin something that should be common sense. Cmon.
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post #70 of 225
5/2/11 at 1:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducman69 View Post
You're absolutely right, anyone that makes a distinction between the death of thousands of innocent civilians and a mass murdering terrorist with plans for continued killing of women and children is simply a hypocrite.

You're doing all these mental gymnastics to come to such odd conclusions finding fault where none is to be found. Just stand back for a minute, try to reflect impartially, and use a common sense outlook on all this.


Suspects? Legal interpretations? This is Osama Bin Laden, the known and self admitted mass murderer of innocent civilians... come on now, you seem like an intelligent guy, so I don't think you buy that yourself.
"Justice" is very specific. None of the criteria was met here. It was just a killing, and a dangerous man is out of circulation. But there was no justice.
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post #71 of 225
5/2/11 at 1:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducman69 View Post
So now I'm a terrorist?
If you're celebrating a man's death, you're behaving like one.

Quote:
What I find so confusing, is that you seem incapable of distinguishing between a truly evil individual hell bent on spreading hate and killing women and children and would behead your family in front of you and televise it for shock factor, and thousands of innocent people just living their lives totally indifferent just concerning themselves with what they were going to do for dinner and looking forward to a new movie coming out.

Most rational level headed people are able to make that distinction, and I feel confident that you on some level do as well, but are too focused on trying to spin something that should be common sense. Cmon.
That's because you're trying to bait the conversation away from what I've been saying because you don't want to acknowledge the facts of the matter. It's not who was killed, now or then. It's the fact that some Americans are behaving exactly as they did, with their dancing and chanting all the way from students to politicians, even after having so adamantly complained of them doing the same thing.
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post #72 of 225
5/2/11 at 1:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippymjp View Post
"Justice" is very specific. None of the criteria was met here. It was just a killing, and a dangerous man is out of circulation. But there was no justice.
Ugh, "to do justice" or "to bring to justice" can mean to receive punishment for one's misdead. You're just arguing for the sake of arguing now, you know what was meant regardless I am sure, cmon.

If you're still adamant, we can contact DC Comics, and demand they change the name of the Justice League.
Quote:
It's not who was killed, now or then. It's the fact that some Americans are behaving exactly as they did, with their dancing and chanting all the way from students to politicians, even after having so adamantly complained of them doing the same thing.
You're struggling because you don't realize that its NOT the same thing. The murder of thousands of innocents unknown to their attacker just going about their daily lives that are mostly all I'm sure good people or at least worthy of the benefit of the doubt is NOT the same as a known and self-admitted mass murderer of women and children alike whose life goal is to bring death and suffering and spread fear to achieve his agenda. Its NOT the same, unless you twist your mind to somehow make it so.

Alrighty, well I've said my piece, and if you're still convinced I'm a terrorist we'll just have to agree to disagree.
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post #73 of 225
5/2/11 at 1:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducman69 View Post
Ugh, "to do justice" or "to bring to justice" can mean to receive punishment for one's misdead. You're just arguing for the sake of arguing now, you know what was meant regardless I am sure, cmon.
I know what they mean, and they're using the wrong incorrectly. He received no sentence, he was just killed.

Quote:
If you're still adamant, we can contact DC Comics, and demand they change the name of the Justice League.
I'm not a big follower of comics, but how many of them routinely kill their opponents and call it justice?
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post #74 of 225
5/2/11 at 1:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducman69 View Post
You're struggling because you don't realize that its NOT the same thing. The murder of thousands of innocents unknown to their attacker just going about their daily lives that are mostly all I'm sure good people or at least worthy of the benefit of the doubt is NOT the same as a known and self-admitted mass murderer of women and children alike whose life goal is to bring death and suffering and spread fear to achieve his agenda. Its NOT the same, unless you twist your mind to somehow make it so.
Your struggling to make what I'm saying about bin Laden, and it isn't. It's about Americans acting in the very manner they condemn. A "stooping to their level" moment.
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post #75 of 225
5/2/11 at 1:40pm
Its just not the people of the US.
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post #76 of 225
5/2/11 at 2:38pm
I don't have any remorse or compassion for the man being killed. I know that I used the term "justice" in my previous post but it is meant more in the sense of "justice= just desserts" (he got what was coming to him), not in the sense of justice being served in a court of law. Just wanted to clarify my statement.
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post #77 of 225
5/2/11 at 3:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyrajean View Post
Am I the only one who finds the celebrations in NYC and Washington kinda tasteless? Yes, one can make the argument that it had to be done, but I don't think we should ever be celebrating having to kill someone in the name of national security.
bin Laden's people celebrated the killing of Americans after 9/11. Have you forgotten how Americans felt immediately after that tragedy? Perhaps we should've just given bin Laden a time out in the corner? Try telling that to those who lost loved ones on 9/11/ Ten looong years in the making. I don't feel the least bit guilty for savoring today. Sorry.
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post #78 of 225
5/2/11 at 3:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippymjp View Post
There's no distinction, there is merely perspective and hypocrisy. Those dancing in Palestine on 9/11 saw the attacks as a victory against an enemy. Those dancing in the US today see this strike as a victory against an enemy. Killing is killing, dead is dead, and celebrating killing is ghoulish.

This "one bad, one good" idea is simple hypocrisy is it's rawest form.
No disrepect intended, Mike, but weren't you a Marine? That doesn't make sense to me. Why did you join up, if you were so against killing our enemies? You can't give them trials in the field during a battle.

This strike IS an a victory for this country. Bin Laden deserved death for what he did to us, and his death may prevent a few more deaths.

Wonder how liberals feel about this--they hated the war, hated Bush, but now their buddy Obama is a hero for killing Bin Laden and fighting in Libya.
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post #79 of 225
5/2/11 at 3:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MargeCat View Post
Wonder how liberals feel about this--they hated the war, hated Bush, but now their buddy Obama is a hero for killing Bin Laden and fighting in Libya.
I'm not really sure why you had to say that, but here's how:

Glad that Obama stayed the course in tracking down the enemy Bush named to kill. I still don't like war, including the fighting in Libya.

BTW, This "liberal" never hated Bush. I admired him after the 9-11 tragedy, but was disappointed when he waged war under the pretense of finding WMDs.
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post #80 of 225
5/2/11 at 3:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippymjp View Post
Your struggling to make what I'm saying about bin Laden, and it isn't. It's about Americans acting in the very manner they condemn. A "stooping to their level" moment.
It IS about Bin Laden.

If thousands of innocent civilian Afghanistani people with mothers and children in a village were killed, and Americans were dancing in the streets, then that would be the same.

Being happy that an evil mass murdering terrorist is dead and that thousands of innocent civilians is dead is NOT the same as you are making it out to be, that is what I have been trying to explain to you.

Your inability to distinguish between masses of innocents and a self-professed mass murderer is the reason we disagree.
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post #81 of 225
5/2/11 at 3:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockcat View Post
BTW, This "liberal" never hated Bush. I admired him after the 9-11 tragedy, but was disappointed when he waged war under the pretense of finding WMDs.
And the fact you used the term, "under the pretense," shows your bias. There is every indication they believed it but were enough like the liberals now in office that they didn't want a good crisis go to waste.

The "Bush lied, people died" chant is as wrong as anything any conservative has said about Obama's birth.
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post #82 of 225
5/2/11 at 3:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducman69 View Post
On a lighter note, last night on the ABC News live stream, the caster said Obama was dead. Very similar names, so I can understand the slip.

Global made the same mistake:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMAlXQ5Bspg

Even Geraldo made the slip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zym1FdRO9jo

On Fox News though, the caster said "President Obama is dead".... freudian slip?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMP7Ys57ha4
Even Ted Kennedy made the error.

Ted and Osama Obama
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post #83 of 225
5/2/11 at 4:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MargeCat View Post
No disrepect intended, Mike, but weren't you a Marine? That doesn't make sense to me. Why did you join up, if you were so against killing our enemies? You can't give them trials in the field during a battle.

This strike IS an a victory for this country. Bin Laden deserved death for what he did to us, and his death may prevent a few more deaths.

Wonder how liberals feel about this--they hated the war, hated Bush, but now their buddy Obama is a hero for killing Bin Laden and fighting in Libya.
It was a job that had to be done, it was done well. Everyone involved performed brilliantly. A lot of American people, however, are reacting exactly the way the Palestinians reacted on 9-11. It was disgusting then, it's disgusting now.
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post #84 of 225
5/2/11 at 4:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducman69 View Post
It IS about Bin Laden.

If thousands of innocent civilian Afghanistani people with mothers and children in a village were killed, and Americans were dancing in the streets, then that would be the same.

Being happy that an evil mass murdering terrorist is dead and that thousands of innocent civilians is dead is NOT the same as you are making it out to be, that is what I have been trying to explain to you.

Your inability to distinguish between masses of innocents and a self-professed mass murderer is the reason we disagree.
And dancing in the streets celebrating death is exactly the same everywhere, every time, regardless of who, why or how many. And it's still disgusting.

As for "self-professed" are you referring to the video where his beard and nose were wrong, by any chance?
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post #85 of 225
5/2/11 at 4:32pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosiemac View Post
I must admit l didn't like to see them in the streets like l did. Celebrate by all means, but do it in private.

IF it is him does it really make you feel safer?, because l don't. There's someone else probably slipping into his role right now.
It really is him. They confirmed with DNA today.

Last night when there were impromptu crowds that gathered at the White House, Times Square and Ground Zero I admit I had real mixed emotions. Shortly after it was first announced the crowd at the White House sang the Star Spangled Banner (and unlike Xtina - they remembered all the words!), God Bless America, America the Beautiful. How is that even celebrating his death? No, that was certainly celebrating OUR VICTORY. OUR VICTORY over the premise that terrorism would stop the US in our tracks.

Fast forward a couple hours and there were more than a couple people dancing in the streets of Times Square. I wasn't quite sure what to make of that. Same revellry, just added liquor? I couldn't possibly say.

At the same time they cut to Ground Zero where there was a large crowd gathered, but they certainly weren't dancing. They were solomn. Some were perhaps there telling their friends, their loved ones that it is finished. The mastermind behind their needless deaths had been defeated.

[quote=Ducman69;3060093] Eliminating a mass murdering terrorist and serving justice for his thousands of victims makes me feel good, as I don't think of him any different than Hitler and see no need for compassion or mourning for a monster like that. [quote]

100% agreed!

And frankly I do not feel like a terrorist and will not feel guilty for applauding our men and women who planned and executed an almost flawless mission.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippymjp View Post
There was no justice, there was a firefight. Cases against suspects killed during apprehension are closed or dismissed in US courts, so as far as justice goes, this doesn't actually count as anything.
He admitted guilt on many occasions. He was offered a chance to surrender. He refused.

Is a court system the only way to get justice? Is the US court system any better than the Sharia court system that millions believe to dole out justice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zohdee View Post
Its just not the people of the US.
His victims span the globe, including the US, Africa, Spain, England, Australia via Indonesia, etc. etc. etc.

Our boys took him out. We are not the only ones who celebrate.



I was just listening to an online radio show and at the top of the hour they played a collage of the news casts from 9/11. It made my hair stand on end and sent shivers down my spine. It went through a few statements that Bush made, and ended with part of Obama's statement last night. If you can find no sense of justice in the actions that were taken yesterday that ended in Bin Laden's overdue demise...you must have a heart of stone.
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post #86 of 225
5/2/11 at 4:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblanche View Post
And the fact you used the term, "under the pretense," shows your bias. There is every indication they believed it but were enough like the liberals now in office that they didn't want a good crisis go to waste.


The "Bush lied, people died" chant is as wrong as anything any conservative has said about Obama's birth.
Well, I didn't go around singing and chanting, but, yeah - I am biased - NOW. I didn't like it when we were going to war, but I gave Bush the benefit of the doubt THEN. Honestly, I don't know what he thought he knew when he decided to wage war. I know that it eventually shook my trust in him. War is a huge thing.

BTW, Bush was proven wrong. There is no way to know for sure if he was lying. At best he made a judgement call, but he was wrong. Obama was proven right (about the birth certificate thing). I'm pretty sure he knew where he was born as a fact. The 2 situations are pretty different. I don't know why you would compare them.

I don't know what you mean by "enough like the liberals now in office that they didn't want a good crisis go to waste".
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post #87 of 225
5/2/11 at 4:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb View Post
I was just listening to an online radio show and at the top of the hour they played a collage of the news casts from 9/11. It made my hair stand on end and sent shivers down my spine. It went through a few statements that Bush made, and ended with part of Obama's statement last night. If you can find no sense of justice in the actions that were taken yesterday that ended in Bin Laden's overdue demise...you must have a heart of stone.
There is a great sense of relief, and pride in the actions of our people. It was a task that had to be done. But execution of death row inmates is also a task that has to be done, and you'd be hard pressed to find anyone celebrating in the streets about it.

As for his "admissions", we also have a confession in the death of JonBenet Ramsey, yet no one is in jail. Wonder why that is?
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post #88 of 225
5/2/11 at 5:51pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippymjp View Post
There is a great sense of relief, and pride in the actions of our people. It was a task that had to be done. But execution of death row inmates is also a task that has to be done, and you'd be hard pressed to find anyone celebrating in the streets about it.

As for his "admissions", we also have a confession in the death of JonBenet Ramsey, yet no one is in jail. Wonder why that is?
Mike, you have to remember when Ted Bundy was executed. There certainly was celebration when that monster was executed. Smaller scaled - Bundy only killed ~40, though at least he did it himself and didn't send others to do it for him. Bin Laden killed thousands.

There is a huge difference between a pedophile with mental issues and the leader of a well known terror organization who has not only boasted of what he ordered and planned but also is corroborated by multiple sources, not all affiliated with Al Qaeda.
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post #89 of 225
5/2/11 at 6:18pm
I do find it strange that in footage of the place where Obama supposedly lived there is no evidence of a dialysis machine. I know several people who are on dialysis and their machines are always near their bed. I hope it was Obama- as much as I hope there will be no reprisals for his death.

As far as trusting the government- my trust meter is set so low it hardly registers. That is just the way it is.
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post #90 of 225
5/2/11 at 6:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb View Post
Mike, you have to remember when Ted Bundy was executed. There certainly was celebration when that monster was executed. Smaller scaled - Bundy only killed ~40, though at least he did it himself and didn't send others to do it for him. Bin Laden killed thousands.

There is a huge difference between a pedophile with mental issues and the leader of a well known terror organization who has not only boasted of what he ordered and planned but also is corroborated by multiple sources, not all affiliated with Al Qaeda.
I completely agree with you. That is why I've not made any negative comments about the government or military operations. I think they did a top notch job, and the original objective was even to take him alive, but he wouldn't have it any other way.

My entire observation has been of American people celebrating. We could just as easily say Palestinians celebrating on 9-11 were celebrating a victory. After all, in both cases, victory = killing people. I'm sorry, but I just don't see a difference. I suppose what creates the issue with me is, those people celebrating in Palestine were roundly condemned, while excuses are made for some Americans doing exactly the same thing. It's almost as though there is some kind of pathological need for the very same actions to be different in this case.

Two tours in Beirut cursed me with a realistic outlook on such things, such as, the real reason we were there. We were there because the Christian Mililtia was murdering entire Arab families inside of refugee camps that were being "guarded" by the IDF. And yes, Islamic extremists bombed the barracks there...after they were told repeatedly by the Christian Militia that "now that the American Christian Army is here, we will make you as though you never existed". And so, I hold both to blame.

The only person I knew from the barracks attack was a Chaplin there. He was trapped for 2 or 3 days, I forget exactly. He never wore the uniform or the cross again after what he saw there.

This is no innocence in the Middle East, and that includes those who dabble there...and the US has been dabbling there with both feet for decades. The only reason the US government claims to want peace in the Middle East is so they can reduce the amount of money they give to the IDF, nothing more.

So yes, when I see video of a young Palestinian, draped in a flag, jumping up and down and chanting, and a video of a young American, draped in a flag, jumping up and down and chanting; I'm sorry, I just don't see a difference.
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