Suspect UTI or crystals in urine?

kittkatt · May 5, 2011

Originally Posted by farleyv

Oh I know, those people at the vets with the dogs! No consideration at all sometimes.

What ticks me off is that those people just let the dogs do their thing with no consideration towards you & your cat. You're trying to keep your poor cat calm cuz they're a nervous wreck being at the vet's office as it is, and in comes some nitwit with their sniffing dogs pestering your cat.

They ought to have separate waiting rooms for dogs & cats, or if the dogs' owners don't want to keep their dogs in line, they should be made to take them outside.

I agree with the others that your vet should try a different antibiotic, and get Allen on the SD/CD right away! I feel so badly for the poor guy.

I've been where you are and I felt just horrible when the poor cats were suffering so. I just about go insane sometimes when I'm having problems with my FIP cats, like when they're having a particularly bad relapse and it takes a while for them to get better.

Sometimes it takes several tries using different antibiotics to find the right one. I'm always worried that they might not be able to get treated properly, and will have a relapse that can't be treated.

I'm so sorry that Allen is still having problems.

I sure hope the vet can find out what's wrong, and get it straightened out ASAP.

allenboy · May 5, 2011

I called the vet for an update and I'm frustrated.

They want to wait until his bladder is full and then go through the abdomen with a needle for a direct sample. I was told his bladder is still not full. I asked if they would try a catheter and if they have him on any pain meds, because I am SURE he is uncomfortable, and the snippy receptionist seemed very irritated that I was asking so many questions that she couldn't or wouldn't answer. I requested the vet to call me, and she said she would pass it along and hung up abruptly without even taking a message.

farleyv · May 5, 2011

I bet she will talk to you when she has the bill ready!!!

That is just unacceptable.....you are paying for their expertise and their courtesy (or lack of).

I guess you are in a holding pattern.....that is a shame. I wish you could get your answers. Being stuck at work and stressing about your little boy...ugh.

Can you go to their office after work? Face to face it will be harder for her to put you off.

continuing vibes and prayers....

allenboy · May 5, 2011

Okay, vet called and was very nice, and answered my questions.

We are going to do an Xray to see if there is a stone. I get off work around 4pm and am going to skip my evening class to make sure if I need to get to the clinic, I can.

Thanks everyone for your support

allenboy · May 5, 2011

So no blockage per Xray, but they were finally able to get a urine sample, and we might have an answer.

Allen has bacterial rods in his urine, and the rod bacteria typically need a heavy duty antibiotic to wipe them out. So he will get a table 1x a day for two weeks, a liquid anti-inflammatory, and continue with the SD and add in wet food in short order.

Going to pick up kitty and write a check

ducman69 · May 5, 2011

Glad you got it figured out. Did I understand correctly that they are giving CD dry diet? Hills makes CD in multicare feline and multicare w/ chicken feline and it has potassium citrate and antioxidants and the same target urine PH and the like as the dry food, but with added moisture and lower carbs.

BTW, the vet should also inform you that schedule feeding is better for maintaining acidic or concentrated urine, both of which are harmful to bacteria. A couple hours after eating, it is normal for urine PH to be bumped up, sometimes as high as 8.0 before it drops back down to normal. Spaced out meals ensures urine PH is more often in the normal range, compared to nibbling on free fed dry for example.

Free fed of course makes sense if you have the opposite problem, and are going for a more alkaline urine to dissolve oxalate crystals.

carolina · May 5, 2011

Originally Posted by AllenBoy

So no blockage per Xray, but they were finally able to get a urine sample, and we might have an answer.

Allen has bacterial rods in his urine, and the rod bacteria typically need a heavy duty antibiotic to wipe them out. So he will get a table 1x a day for two weeks, a liquid anti-inflammatory, and continue with the SD and add in wet food in short order.

Going to pick up kitty and write a check

Watch out for Metacam (Meloxicam) - can be quite dangerous and can cause kidney failure and death in cats - I would NOT give it to any of my cats. Vets do push it for UTI. I would highly recommend it to stay away from it and get an alternative anti-inflammatory.
I would also recommend you picking up either SD or CD wet from your vet since you will be there anyways

farleyv · May 5, 2011

Oh glad you finally have some answers.....

My cat, Beeba, wouldn't eat the wet s/d. He would hide and I crawled under more beds than I care to remember to feed him by hand.

Finally, we switched to dry s/d and eventually c/d. He gobbles it up.

Give Allen a skritch for me .... so glad he is on the mend.!

feralvr · May 5, 2011

I have read through this thread and am glad your vet found an answer for you finally. Your poor Allen and poor you too

. I certainly hope now that he will be on the road to recovery and feeling better very soon.

ducman69 · May 5, 2011

Originally Posted by Carolina

I would also recommend you picking up either SD or CD wet from your vet since you will be there anyways

Don't vets usually massively overcharge for food?

I can't recall if Petsmart or Petco carry Hills Prescription food.

carolina · May 5, 2011

Originally Posted by Ducman69

Don't vets usually massively overcharge for food?

I can't recall if Petsmart or Petco carry Hills Prescription food.

Petsmart does but it is more expensive than the vets - vets can give you discounts, which Petsmart really doesn't... I have bought plenty from both (in different vets offices), and in my experience always paid less at the vets (they have more flexibility). Plus, vets tend to have newer batches - Petsmart being mass market and all.... Also, lets not forget she is on the way to the vet to pick up her kitty.... She is going to be there

Petsmart is the most expensive place I have ever bought prescription from, FYI.

ducman69 · May 5, 2011

K, checked and here the price at Petsmart (in Houston at least) is $1.41 per 5.5oz can... man is that expensive. That comes out to just under $34 for a case of 24.

Just an FYI so you know if the vet is ballpark high or low.

darlili · May 5, 2011

I get Hills C/D both wet and dry, as my Dante doesn't really like wet very much - I can usually get him to do a heaping teaspoon morning and evening - but he loves his kibble.

From what I've seen, vets do not overcharge for prescription foods. I hate that old canard. And, of course, you need a prescription to get the food. Any vendor that would sell it wthout prescription is to be avoided like the plague. My own Petsmart does not carry prescription food because they do not have a Banfield vet on premise. I get the wet CD by the case - you do get a 'bulk' discount. I always get the mid-size dry bag - more expensive per pound that the larger bag, yet less expensive that the four pound bag. Makes sense to me.

One thing, AllenBoy - you may want to work with your vet re portion sizes. Some of the prescription forumulas are pretty rich and if the portions are too big, cats can gain weight on it. My boy is about 12 pounds and gets a half cup dry C/D per day, along with his bit of wet. Vet and I worked out that measured portion size.

Also, when you can, you might want to look at water fountains...my two do drink more from my Drinkwell 360 than they did from bowls of water.

PS - my Dante couldn't tolerate the fishy wet CD - bad tummy. The chicken version seems to work better. And the new dry version is apparently truly better tasting to him than the original forumula

I hope this is the beginning of a quick return to health and comfort for your poor Allen...and of some sleep for you!

darlili · May 5, 2011

Just an aside - I found that the C/D is not more expensive than the premium food I had been buying - and some canned foods are way more expensive. And, of course, my cat's health is worth whatever it takes.

ducman69 · May 5, 2011

Water fountains are definitely an excellent idea. BTW, having used the 360, Drinkwell Platinum, and Ceramic Panasonic Big Max fountains, after longterm use now I'd recommend the Panasonic first and Platinum a close second.

http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-Cerami...4630734&sr=8-2

darlili · May 6, 2011

Just wondering how Allen's night went - and hoping you got some sleep!

allenboy · May 6, 2011

Originally Posted by Ducman69

Glad you got it figured out. Did I understand correctly that they are giving CD dry diet? Hills makes CD in multicare feline and multicare w/ chicken feline and it has potassium citrate and antioxidants and the same target urine PH and the like as the dry food, but with added moisture and lower carbs.

BTW, the vet should also inform you that schedule feeding is better for maintaining acidic or concentrated urine, both of which are harmful to bacteria. A couple hours after eating, it is normal for urine PH to be bumped up, sometimes as high as 8.0 before it drops back down to normal. Spaced out meals ensures urine PH is more often in the normal range, compared to nibbling on free fed dry for example.

Free fed of course makes sense if you have the opposite problem, and are going for a more alkaline urine to dissolve oxalate crystals.

He is currently being transitioned to the regular SD Adult indoor formula. I would really rather try this than go to the prescription food. Vet said she thinks that would be fine.

Watch out for Metacam (Meloxicam) - can be quite dangerous and can cause kidney failure and death in cats - I would NOT give it to any of my cats. Vets do push it for UTI. I would highly recommend it to stay away from it and get an alternative anti-inflammatory.
I would also recommend you picking up either SD or CD wet from your vet since you will be there anyways

This is the anti-inflammatory he is on. It's four small syringes, given over a four day span.

The vet did recommend a water fountain for him to see if we can get him to drink more, which I am contemplating. This morning I pushed two syringes of water in him before I went to work.

I have yet to see an improvement in Allen so far - still the in/out of the litterbox and he is reverting in his cry/whine mode, which tells me he's still not feeling better

My fingers are crossed that by day 4 or 5, I will see some improvement.

carolina · May 6, 2011

Originally Posted by AllenBoy

He is currently being transitioned to the regular SD Adult indoor formula. I would really rather try this than go to the prescription food. Vet said she thinks that would be fine. Since he is suffering so much, and not getting better... I would really push the Vet for prescription... C/D works great. When it comes to UTIs and Crystals, prescriptions foods works as part of the treatment and work alongside the treatment - a lot of times it makes the difference in the cat getting better or not, or having re-occurrences. I know nutritionally they might not seem like the best choice out there, but the ingredients have a reason to be for the condition at hand... C/D is usually well liked, especially the chicken...

This is the anti-inflammatory he is on. It's four small syringes, given over a four day span. .... take a look at this site before giving him Metacam: http://www.metacamkills.com/There are other options available, with much less risks...

The vet did recommend a water fountain for him to see if we can get him to drink more, which I am contemplating. This morning I pushed two syringes of water in him before I went to work.

I have yet to see an improvement in Allen so far - still the in/out of the litterbox and he is reverting in his cry/whine mode, which tells me he's still not feeling better

My fingers are crossed that by day 4 or 5, I will see some improvement.

allenboy · May 6, 2011

Originally Posted by Carolina

This is the anti-inflammatory he is on. It's four small syringes, given over a four day span. .... take a look at this site before giving him Metacam: http://www.metacamkills.com/There are other options available, with much less risks...

I've given him two of the doses already, but I could possibly go in tomorrow morning and see if they can give me an alternative.

However, if it was that dangerous, why would the vet prescribe it?

carolina · May 6, 2011

Originally Posted by AllenBoy

I've given him two of the doses already, but I could possibly go in tomorrow morning and see if they can give me an alternative.

However, if it was that dangerous, why would the vet prescribe it?

Simply because vets are more used to treat dogs than cats, which the drug is not so dangerous to.... If you go to a cat only clinic, they will never prescribe Metacam to your cat.
There are warnings even on Metacam itself about the dangers to cats.
I was also prescribed Metacam for an UTI on a ER vet - knowing the danger, I refused on the spot, and opted for a morphine derivative pain injection and antibiotics. It worked beautifully.
Accute Kidney failure is not something you want to play with it, IMHO.

FDA asked B.I.V.I. to add the boxed warning based on FDAâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s review of reported adverse drug events for METACAMÂ[emoji]174[/emoji]. FDA identified many cases of kidney failure and death in cats associated with repeated use of METACAMÂ[emoji]174[/emoji]. http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/.../ucm231254.htm

No safe and effective dose of the oral suspension is approved for cats http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/.../ucm231254.htm

Suspect UTI or crystals in urine?

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