Kittens born and doing great

Just an update and to thank all for the advice I've gotten here.

Mom let me know she was ready and went straight to her closet where I had a clean quilt with heating pad under it ready. At first she didn't want to be there, but instead in a box of newspapers. When I left the room for a minute, she had already had two when we got back. My husband and I moved them all into the closet where she had four more. She did great.

I gave them all the Benebac gel and formula for the first day. She was very frantic and I was exhausted by the time that part was over. They all six are doing great, fat, eyes beginning to open now and all nice longhair fuzzies. I have one runt, but he is feisty.

None appear sickly or less than vigorous. But, I have been supplementing with formula some, though they now are refusing it. I just gave them another course of the Benebac gel and will be attemping giving them formula again today.

This is about the time one or two begin to fade the last time. By the end of the third, definitely the fourth week, they all had died, even though Mom is nursing or appears to be. The difference's this time though are: I am using the heating pad, on low now .. so that the top and clean quilt is just warm to tough, not hot, giving them the Benebac gel as prescribed on the package, using KMR formula and going to start them more aggressively on formula supplementation, rather than waiting until they are too weak to even want the formula.

I am also keeping a clean, rinsed twice, quilt for them at all times. So far, Mom has not made one move to move them. Oh yeah and I am lavishing WAY more attention on her this time, talking to her, petting and feeding her really well, keeping food and water in close proximity to her, so she doesn't have to leave the room to eat and drink.

My young children at home have been very good about cooperating with never going near the kittens, except for a peek with one of us. No touching has been allowed by anyone but me and the one time by my husband. I have no idea if those things are making a difference. All I know is she seems much happier this time.

I DO need suggestions on 1) when to stop using the heating pad and 2) how to get them to suckle the formula nipple.

One or two just took right to suckling the nipples, but most behave like its the most foreign, unpleasant thing to even put it in their mouths. Also.. I have trouble getting them to lie on their tummy while I maneuver the bottle for suckling. I WAS holding them in my hand on their back and trying to feed them, but they are not liking that very much and I am afraid they will choke like that. Any ideas on getting them interested in suckling while on their tummies?

Mom just took a break, ate/drank, went to potty and stretched out in close proximity to kittens and is now nursing them. So... when is the best time to try and supplement with formula??

I have not weighed them, but they are growing really fast, with nice little appleheads. I am trying not to get my hopes up too high that they will all make it. Its such a delicate time now and I am very afraid for them.

I am gently petting each one though as suggested here, heads, faces, paws. They are adorable. Its hard to tell right now what their coloration will be since it changes as they age. But, there are definitely two light greys, who will very likely be tortoise shell patterned and the rest tabby like marking, but two are mostly black tabby's and two are brown tabby's, all longhair and the tabby's have varying amounts of white on the inside of the ears and faces. That white usually ends up just looking like sprits of white mixed in with the ear hairs. No white paws or chests.

Hi,
I read your other thread for more background and I wanted to offer my thoughts and insight.

First of all, I am so sorry about your previous loss of the first litter. There is nothing more frustrating and sad than watching kittens who appear healthy fade quickly and die, especially a whole litter.

That said, I get the feeling that you are convinced that you could have prevented it with more food or more attention or something. From what you describe, it sounds very unlikely that even supplementation would have made a difference. Maybe that will give you comfort or maybe that will make you feel bad because you want so desperately to believe that the fate of this litter is in your hands and that if you do things differently, they will make it.

The truth is, each litter is different. Just because that litter faded does NOT mean this litter will. Obviously, you need to be proactive regardless.

I can tell you that a healthy kitten will not just lose interest in feeding and fade away because they are not getting enough food. Healthy kittens will show frustration, cry and fight for the nipple when they are hungry and do not get enough food (like if momma cat isn't producing enough). It is very possible and probably likely that the first litter was not healthy and nothing could have made any difference. It's tragic, but it happens.

That said, the most important thing you should do (and ANY person who has a new litter IMHO) is weigh each kitten every day around the same time. With a scale that measures gram weight. Healthy kittens will consistently gain a few grams every day. They will at least stay the same and not start losing weight. You can't rely on how they appear because their weight gain is so subtle, the best indicator of health is consistent gram weight gain. There is also a list of normal weight gain for kittens (in grams) that can give a basic idea of what your should expect typically. I'll try to find it and post it here for you. (I couldn't find the chart I had in mind, but for reference they should gain between 7-10 grams per day, on average) I would talk to the vet if they are not consistently doing so.

I would make that my most important mission, above and beyond worrying about supplementing --- at this point. They don't even need any supplement if they are gaining normally. If anything, it's always better to allow nature it's natural course when things are working. Momma's milk supply depends on their demand of it, so supplementing could even reduce her output. So it should be done when needed, not just because of fear that they could eventually fade. Every cat owner who has new litter should have the supplies on hand, for use when needed.

Also, do not feed them on their back even if it is easier that way. The risk of aspirating the milk is far too high and not the way their bodies are made to drink.

So, my advice is get a scale and use it every single day. Record their weight and supplement if any start to appear to be losing weight. Weighing them more than once per day is probably just going to be frustrating because they will fluctuate and cause you alarm. That is why I said the same time every day, you will get a much more consistent and clear picture of their weight gain that way. I did it every morning.

Everything else you're doing sounds great, I can tell you are just head over heels in love with these kittens and momma cat! I hope my thoughts are helpful to you!

I wish you luck with this new litter, I would love to see pictures if you have the chance to upload a few!!!

There is something else that stood out when I reread your other thread. You mention that your cats are indoor cats, but use a cat door to go outside to use the bathroom. A cat is not an indoor cat if they go outside unsupervised, ever.

I mention this because cats who are intact and also have access to being outdoors are at risk for Felv/FIV and a host of other communicable diseases that can result in early deaths of their litters (fading kitten syndrome) and also themselves.

I am hoping that your cats have been consistently vaccinated in effort to prevent these diseases and that they are not infected, but concerned that if you think of your cats as 'indoor cats' your vet might have not thought those vaccines necessary because they weren't at risk. But ANY cat who is ever outside or even exposed to another cat who is ever outside is at risk, and most especially intact cats.

I hope that this isn't an issue for your cats and that if they have not been vaccinated, you have had them tested. I mention this not only for your sake, but for anyone else who is reading and has a cat who has outdoor access and especially if they are not spayed/neutered. The risks cannot be stressed enough because these diseases are rampant in many communities and people don't know until it's too late. Adult cats often do not show any symptoms until they are really bad off, so the disease is spread without anyone knowing.

I have lost a cat to Felv, so this is something that came to my mind when reading that your cats have outdoor access.

Even after you have your cats fixed, please be sure to keep them updated on all vaccines intended for outdoor cats. If this information can help even one person who was otherwise unaware, it's worth passing on.

Again, it's likely not even an issue for your cats-- just something that is important to consider with outdoor and unaltered cats.

I agree that I wouldn't supplement them at this point, either. First of all, the ingredients in kitten formula are. . .well, ugh. I don't think it should be used unless necessary, mother's milk is a million times better. Secondly, trying to get them to take the rubber nipple can cause stress. That isn't healthy for any cat, especially baby kittens. And lastly, because supplementing the babies can cause the mother's milk supply to dry up faster, and that wouldn't be good for them.

So just weigh them every day, and if they aren't gaining properly, you may want to supplement, after talking to the vet of course. But I wouldn't give them any formula otherwise.

Here's hoping the babies grow up big and strong! Have you had the daddy cat neutered yet?