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post #91 of 131
3/28/11 at 4:03pm
Thread Starter 
Ah...religion. I went through 12 years of Catholic edcuation at private schools. After that, I never again attended mass. Still, I do think I benefited from it and the discipline. (I tell ya, they'd get sued for what they used to do to us ) Along the lines of NorthernGlow said, it has always struck me how some people, based on their religious beliefs, are so tireless and unselfish in their efforts to help others, while there are always a few that sit in the front pew and sing the loudest who are pure evil. (my own father was one of those) So I try not to judge people on their religious beliefs, to me it's more a measure of where a person's heart is at.

I do not pray, but would never discourage anyone from doing so on my behalf. On the off chance that someone's listening, it sure couldn't hurt.

If you think about it, there must be something in your life that you feel so strongly about that you would physically fight for, risk your life for, etc. Maybe that would be your child, an animal being abused, your union contract, etc. For a religious person, God and their soul, eternity...that's as big as it gets. It's the ultimate belief. So I guess I understand the passion. Take Rainbow Bridge. Whether people actually believe they'll ever see their pets again or not, it's still comforting to say it...play happily over the bridge, you're free now. So I guess the biggest word in the equation is faith. You either have it or you don't.

Did I put you all to sleep yet?
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post #92 of 131
3/28/11 at 4:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueyedgirl5946 View Post
I have prayed for many souls, and they have never known I did it. Some of them became Christians, some did not. I wouldn't offend someone by telling them I was doing it if I knew they didn't want me to pray for them. I understand and respect your feelings.
yes i get that i dont mind it to a point but when its being thrown in your face that they are doin this i dont think its fair to do so after stressing to the person you dont want to here that, i get that people have the need to be religious but i dont need it rammed down my throat!! and to be told i need saving or going to hell

ive never singled anyone religous out, ill stand by me saying im a scientist that believes in evolution but i dont try and push that across the way that bibal verses are sometimes thrust at none believers
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post #93 of 131
3/28/11 at 4:45pm
Nearly every aspect of interaction between people of different faiths, from social settings to debate, is highly dependent on context. It actually takes a little bit of reading between the lines at times.

The simple phrase "I'll pray for you", could be the most sincere form of caring a person can offer, just as easily as it can be used as an insult because one side fails to see the allure of the other's religion.
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post #94 of 131
3/28/11 at 4:50pm
I view prayers and vibes as just a way for people to project positive thoughts towards you. I admit that I have to make a mental switch to the term "vibes" when I hear the word "prayers". But I take it in the spirit of how it is offered.
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post #95 of 131
3/28/11 at 5:15pm
AJ, I understand what you are saying. I worked with a Dutch girl who was Christian Reform. She straight out told me that if I did not go to church every Sunday that I would not go to heaven. I told her I didn't mind because I was planning on joining my friends anyway.

Now, having said this, I have a SIL who is Dutch Christian Reform and she assures me that her religion does not teach that at all. So what I believe is that even people of the same faith can easily interpret the teachings in different ways and truly believe their interpretation is the only one.

I am a non-practicing Catholic but do attend Church occasionally for special occasions such as mass for my MIL several times in recent weeks. It is important to my FIL so out of respect for him I attended the masses that he arranged. But even he did not ever make any of us feel that we HAD to go.
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post #96 of 131
3/28/11 at 5:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by -_aj_- View Post
I accept to a certain point this but to be told im prayin for your soul is quite a thing tbh
Oh, I agree with you there, aj.

Being told someone is praying for me because I'm having health problems. . .that's nice and I appreciate it.

Being told someone is praying that I'll see the light and change myself so I won't go to hell. . .well, I know it (usually) comes from well meaning people, but I find it all kinds of insulting!
I've been told I'm an abomination, that I'm destined for hell, and in the same sentence that they'll be praying for me. The two situations are very different.
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post #97 of 131
3/28/11 at 5:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momofmany View Post
I view prayers and vibes as just a way for people to project positive thoughts towards you. I admit that I have to make a mental switch to the term "vibes" when I hear the word "prayers". But I take it in the spirit of how it is offered.
my thoughts exactly
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post #98 of 131
3/29/11 at 6:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinder View Post
Ah...religion. I went through 12 years of Catholic edcuation at private schools. After that, I never again attended mass. Still, I do think I benefited from it and the discipline. (I tell ya, they'd get sued for what they used to do to us ) Along the lines of NorthernGlow said, it has always struck me how some people, based on their religious beliefs, are so tireless and unselfish in their efforts to help others, while there are always a few that sit in the front pew and sing the loudest who are pure evil. (my own father was one of those) So I try not to judge people on their religious beliefs, to me it's more a measure of where a person's heart is at.

I do not pray, but would never discourage anyone from doing so on my behalf. On the off chance that someone's listening, it sure couldn't hurt.

If you think about it, there must be something in your life that you feel so strongly about that you would physically fight for, risk your life for, etc. Maybe that would be your child, an animal being abused, your union contract, etc. For a religious person, God and their soul, eternity...that's as big as it gets. It's the ultimate belief. So I guess I understand the passion. Take Rainbow Bridge. Whether people actually believe they'll ever see their pets again or not, it's still comforting to say it...play happily over the bridge, you're free now. So I guess the biggest word in the equation is faith. You either have it or you don't.

Did I put you all to sleep yet?
No. I think it's a very good post. Religion and faith are worlds apart.
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post #99 of 131
3/29/11 at 6:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post
AJ, I understand what you are saying. I worked with a Dutch girl who was Christian Reform. She straight out told me that if I did not go to church every Sunday that I would not go to heaven. I told her I didn't mind because I was planning on joining my friends anyway.
I'll never forget when I was in 4th grade my teacher told me I was going to hell because I wasn't Catholic. (My Mom had been ex-communicated from the Catholic church years prior when she married my dad because he was divorced. We attended a Protestant church.) My Mom was quite upset, but kept her cool. She told me to ask my teacher what faith Jesus Christ was. She didn't say a word, but her head almost blew up when I told her He was Jewish.
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post #100 of 131
3/29/11 at 9:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockcat View Post
Thanks for all the answers on vibes. I think I'll continue to use the word pray though. I just believe that as a Christian, I don't want to leave God out and use the term vibe when I really mean pray. I believe that God wants me to say pray.
I think that's perfectly fine, and I would use the word pray if i believed in prayer too. I think for most of us pray mean doing a ritual or something very specific like saying a prayer from a prayer book, not just something random. So, I can't possibly use that word, but when I send vibes I basically say to myself over and over again "please get better" if the person/animal is sick, etc...
Meditation is similar as well, buddhist believe if you visualize the person who is sick get better, those thoughts are helpful to the person....so in a sense it's a different version of prayer that doesn't involve any defined sentence you have to say...

If I say I need vibes I am equally grateful for receiving people's prayers. But, that's because I've already reached out to them. If someone tells me they are praying for my soul because they decided I have a bad soul or something, then i am offended. Someone said that to me only a few days ago when I was on vacation. A lady I got in a crash with was calling this gay man a heathen and saying that he is going to hell, and expecting me to agree with her and say amen or something When I told her I don't think it was necessary for her to bring that into a conversation with a stranger, she looked at me and laughed and said I'm praying for your soul ....
It was obvious she was praying for my soul because I disagree with her that a gay man should go to hell for being gay...It really annoyed me.
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post #101 of 131
3/29/11 at 9:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ut0pia View Post
I think that's perfectly fine, and I would use the word pray if i believed in prayer too. I think for most of us pray mean doing a ritual or something very specific like saying a prayer from a prayer book, not just something random. So, I can't possibly use that word, but when I send vibes I basically say to myself over and over again "please get better" if the person/animal is sick, etc...
Meditation is similar as well, buddhist believe if you visualize the person who is sick get better, those thoughts are helpful to the person....so in a sense it's a different version of prayer that doesn't involve any defined sentence you have to say...

If I say I need vibes I am equally grateful for receiving people's prayers. But, that's because I've already reached out to them. If someone tells me they are praying for my soul because they decided I have a bad soul or something, then i am offended. Someone said that to me only a few days ago when I was on vacation. A lady I got in a crash with was calling this gay man a heathen and saying that he is going to hell, and expecting me to agree with her and say amen or something When I told her I don't think it was necessary for her to bring that into a conversation with a stranger, she looked at me and laughed and said I'm praying for your soul ....
It was obvious she was praying for my soul because I disagree with her that a gay man should go to hell for being gay...It really annoyed me.
It is not up to anyone to decide who is going to hell and who is not. It is terrible that some folks, even Christians, take it upon themselves to say that to someone.
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post #102 of 131
3/29/11 at 10:23am
Keep in mind its clear in the Bible who will be in Heaven and who won't be. If the person doesn't change before they die, there is only 2 choices.
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post #103 of 131
3/29/11 at 10:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
Keep in mind its clear in the Bible who will be in Heaven and who won't be. If the person doesn't change before they die, there is only 2 choices.
I agree, but telling someone they are going to hell is never going to help them change. We are nobody's judge.
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post #104 of 131
3/29/11 at 10:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
Keep in mind its clear in the Bible who will be in Heaven and who won't be. If the person doesn't change before they die, there is only 2 choices.
that is your opinion
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post #105 of 131
3/29/11 at 10:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
Keep in mind its clear in the Bible who will be in Heaven and who won't be. If the person doesn't change before they die, there is only 2 choices.
Comments like that are what incite ire unless you're only talking to other Christians.

Keep in mind its clear in YOUR bible what the requirements are for entering heaven. Your bible also refused the admittance of most texts and those texts that were compiled into one volume, were done so by priests who were more than likely corrupt since this was a very corrupt time (the bible wasn't compiled until 331 AD). There were hundreds of volumes not chosen for the bible, including different version of the Gospel, so why are we to believe that just because this version is the one supplied by the religious leaders of the time, that it is true? You have to remember that just because someone was a priest 1,700 years ago, doesnt mean they are any more holy than priests today who can easily stray from the righteous path.
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post #106 of 131
3/29/11 at 11:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
Keep in mind its clear in the Bible who will be in Heaven and who won't be. If the person doesn't change before they die, there is only 2 choices.
Really? Jesus said, "Other sheep have I that are not of this fold." John 10:16
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post #107 of 131
3/29/11 at 11:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
Keep in mind its clear in the Bible who will be in Heaven and who won't be. If the person doesn't change before they die, there is only 2 choices.
That is true for Christians. The Asatru would say it like this;

Keep in mind its clear in the Etta who will be in Valhalla and who won't be. If the person doesn't change before they die, there are only 3 choices.

Many religions have similar tenets. It all depends on which one you pick as your lifestyle choice.
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post #108 of 131
3/29/11 at 12:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockcat View Post
I'll never forget when I was in 4th grade my teacher told me I was going to hell because I wasn't Catholic. (My Mom had been ex-communicated from the Catholic church years prior when she married my dad because he was divorced. We attended a Protestant church.) My Mom was quite upset, but kept her cool. She told me to ask my teacher what faith Jesus Christ was. She didn't say a word, but her head almost blew up when I told her He was Jewish.
On top of than, Jesus isn't even his name. That name was "given" to him over 100 years after his death; possibly because his real name couldn't be written in Greek.
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post #109 of 131
3/29/11 at 1:28pm
I've found there are too major groups of Christians when it comes to the "sins" of others. People who are smug about their piety and judgemental of others, proclaiming who goes to heaven and who doesn't, and people who want to live as Jesus did- not judging anybody, confident in their own belief but also knowing that they are not judges, that "God is the only judge" that matters.
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post #110 of 131
3/29/11 at 2:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mollysmom View Post
I've found there are too major groups of Christians when it comes to the "sins" of others. People who are smug about their piety and judgemental of others, proclaiming who goes to heaven and who doesn't, and people who want to live as Jesus did- not judging anybody, confident in their own belief but also knowing that they are not judges, that "God is the only judge" that matters.
I'd like to think that all Christians have the best intentions. Sometimes it's not what you say, but how you say it and I absolutely understand how Christians can be percieved as "smug about their piety and judgemental of others."

My (ex) BIL is a missionary. I felt uncomfortable when he prayed for me. I don't think he meant it in any negative way though.
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post #111 of 131
3/29/11 at 3:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
Keep in mind its clear in the Bible who will be in Heaven and who won't be. If the person doesn't change before they die, there is only 2 choices.
But, if you don't believe in the Bible in the first place, then this argument falls to the floor. An argument is only valid if the foundation it rests on is solid. I was taught by an English teacher in high school (she was a former nun) that the Bible was just another version of a mythology book, and every religion had their version of those myths.

If your opinion is that the Bible is pure truth, then you have set the boundaries on where people will land when they die. It is your opinion and I respect it as long as you don't try to enforce it on me.
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post #112 of 131
3/29/11 at 4:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockcat View Post
I'd like to think that all Christians have the best intentions. Sometimes it's not what you say, but how you say it and I absolutely understand how Christians can be percieved as "smug about their piety and judgemental of others."

My (ex) BIL is a missionary. I felt uncomfortable when he prayed for me. I don't think he meant it in any negative way though.
And what of all these people who "say they're saved" and then keep on sinning and living in immorality etc? It means that they were never genuinely saved. The Bible says too that "if you SAY that you have fellowship with God and you walk in darkness .... " "those who SAY..." etc. People who say they are Christians yet live a contrary life style are NOT saved. In other words, "actions speak louder than words." I can say I'm a Christian but if my walk doesn't match then I'm not a Christian.
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post #113 of 131
3/29/11 at 5:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockcat View Post
I'd like to think that all Christians have the best intentions. Sometimes it's not what you say, but how you say it and I absolutely understand how Christians can be percieved as "smug about their piety and judgemental of others."

My (ex) BIL is a missionary. I felt uncomfortable when he prayed for me. I don't think he meant it in any negative way though.
I'd like to think that, too, but I've been pretty disappointed. I agree that some people who come across as smug and judgmental do mean well, though.

When I think about "bad" Christians I really think of people who I don't think are Christians much at all. They go to church on Sundays and do nothing else but preach, forgetting what else there is in the bible besides sins and hell, like lessons on goodness and all the teachings on Jesus.
What about "Judge not, lest ye be judged?"

I'm not saying everyone has to live like Mother Theresa (), but she is an example on who is a "true" Christian to me. She spent her life in service of the "lowest" of all people, treating them with compassion, not judgment, as most people would.

Yet, I consider myself Agnostic, not Christian. I was raised Catholic and I was so disgusted by the hypocrisy around me I renounced Catholicism before I was in middle school.

Not because of the religion, but because the way some people acted. One of my closest friends now is Catholic and you couldn't find a kinder person anywhere. She lives by "WWJD?"
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post #114 of 131
3/30/11 at 5:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mollysmom View Post
One of my closest friends now is Catholic and you couldn't find a kinder person anywhere. She lives by "WWJD?"
I like that WWJD
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post #115 of 131
3/30/11 at 5:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by elayman View Post
And what of all these people who "say they're saved" and then keep on sinning and living in immorality etc? It means that they were never genuinely saved. The Bible says too that "if you SAY that you have fellowship with God and you walk in darkness .... " "those who SAY..." etc. People who say they are Christians yet live a contrary life style are NOT saved. In other words, "actions speak louder than words." I can say I'm a Christian but if my walk doesn't match then I'm not a Christian.
Going to church doesn't make one a Christian. Everyone sins. Having a relationship with Jesus can be compared to a marriage in that you don't want to sin like you don't want to hurt your spouse. Sometimes we fail. Jesus loves us and forgives us.

True, some people who profess to be Christians are not. I believe in living a sermon, not preaching one. I'm not very good at it yet, but I am working on it and I continue to ask God for help with that.

I agree it is up to God to judge. I don't want anyone judging me.
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post #116 of 131
3/30/11 at 5:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueyedgirl5946 View Post
I like that WWJD
Me too!
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post #117 of 131
3/30/11 at 5:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mollysmom View Post
I'd like to think that, too, but I've been pretty disappointed. I agree that some people who come across as smug and judgmental do mean well, though.

When I think about "bad" Christians I really think of people who I don't think are Christians much at all. They go to church on Sundays and do nothing else but preach, forgetting what else there is in the bible besides sins and hell, like lessons on goodness and all the teachings on Jesus.
What about "Judge not, lest ye be judged?"

I'm not saying everyone has to live like Mother Theresa (), but she is an example on who is a "true" Christian to me. She spent her life in service of the "lowest" of all people, treating them with compassion, not judgment, as most people would.

Yet, I consider myself Agnostic, not Christian. I was raised Catholic and I was so disgusted by the hypocrisy around me I renounced Catholicism before I was in middle school.

Not because of the religion, but because the way some people acted. One of my closest friends now is Catholic and you couldn't find a kinder person anywhere. She lives by "WWJD?"
There are some very good churches. I have had some bad experiences with them and some wonderful ones. I get what you mean about hyprocricy. You cannot look to the people in the church. They shouldn't be looking to each other either. All believers should be looking to God.

I am not currently attending church. I am blessed to have a relationship with Jesus though. I may go again someday. I need to find the right one first though.
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post #118 of 131
3/30/11 at 5:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mollysmom View Post
I've found there are too major groups of Christians when it comes to the "sins" of others. People who are smug about their piety and judgemental of others, proclaiming who goes to heaven and who doesn't, and people who want to live as Jesus did- not judging anybody, confident in their own belief but also knowing that they are not judges, that "God is the only judge" that matters.
Excellent post! I have a lot of respect for the latter even though I don't share their beliefs. The former, not so much.
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post #119 of 131
3/30/11 at 6:00am
Interesting discussion, but I have some questions:

1) who the heck is Cindy?

2) why would someone stop posting here, and then months later decide to come back and start a thread criticizing all the other members on their subject matter choices (or lack of) for discussion?
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post #120 of 131
3/30/11 at 8:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by otto View Post
Interesting discussion, but I have some questions:

1) who the heck is Cindy?

2) why would someone stop posting here, and then months later decide to come back and start a thread criticizing all the other members on their subject matter choices (or lack of) for discussion?
1. Cindy posted mostly in the IMO Forum. Her topics were current events.
The subjects were sometimes controversial and led to much discussion.

2. I don't know the answer to this question. Maybe someone else does.
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