I'm so confused

labyrinth · Mar 24, 2011

This was my initial thread: http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=228982

I had some bloodwork done on Max yesterday (we only checked kidney and thyroid) and the vet said both were borderline problematic, but still in normal range. She wants me to put him on a protein restricted diet to help his kidneys. This is what I was told last time I did a blood screening on him 2 years ago. At that time people here suggested a higher quality food and not the prescription food. I switched him over to Taste of the Wild and he's done fine on that since. I offer him wet food, but he rarely eats it. The last few days I've gotten him to start taking wet food more often, but he eats less than maybe half a can of it a day.

The vet suggests trying the new diet for a few months, then bringing him in to be rechecked. If he doesn't improve we would start screening him for other things.

What would be easiest for me would be to continue free feeding Taste of the Wild kibble, and offering him the wet food several times a day. This goes against what the vet suggests as she wants him on a low protein food, but my gut is telling me that the kibble he gets now is fine and I just need to get more wet food in him.

The main thing is I want him to put a little weight back on. He has lost 2 pounds since his last weigh in, but that was 2 years ago. If I feed him as outlined above, do you think he can gain weight that way or should I try adding something else into his diet? Or should I do as the vet suggested and get him a low protein food?

carolina · Mar 24, 2011

Hi!
When it comes to health problems, there is a reason why prescription food exists and/and or ingredient limitations. If your vet is suggesting limiting the protein amount for your cat, by all means, I would highly recommend you doing that.
Max is 15-16 years old, and IMHO a grain free food might not be the best choice for him. High protein foods IMHO are not really the best choice for seniors, and if he is border line problematic, I would really be proactive reducing the protein to something more suitable.
I did not have luck with my male cat with a 100% grain free diet - he got a UTI, and I immediately added grain back into his diet. Knock on wood, he has been good ever since.
Has your vet suggested something?
I also see he is constipated?
My vet suggested 1 tablespoon a day of canned pumpkin in my cat's wet food. 1/2 in the morning, 1/2 at dinner time.
Alternatively, you might want to discuss with your vet about a hairball formula if he doesn't eat wet - it has been great for my constipated girl.
Remember, you are dealing with a senior cat... Your vet knows your cat, has the blood work in front of him/her, and is the best person to guide you on this decision... I highly highly recommend you to listen and discuss this with your vet - there will be no one better to assist you IMHO.

labyrinth · Mar 24, 2011

Originally Posted by Carolina

Hi!
When it comes to health problems, there is a reason why prescription food exists and/and or ingredient limitations. If your vet is suggesting limiting the protein amount for your cat, by all means, I would highly recommend you doing that.
Max is 15-16 years old, and IMHO a grain free food might not be the best choice for him. High protein foods IMHO are not really the best choice for seniors, and if he is border line problematic, I would really be proactive reducing the protein to something more suitable.
I did not have luck with my male cat with a 100% grain free diet - he got a UTI, and I immediately added grain back into his diet. Knock on wood, he has been good ever since.
Has your vet suggested something?
I also see he is constipated?
My vet suggested 1 tablespoon a day of canned pumpkin in my cat's wet food. 1/2 in the morning, 1/2 at dinner time.
Alternatively, you might want to discuss with your vet about a hairball formula if he doesn't eat wet - it has been great for my constipated girl.
Remember, you are dealing with a senior cat... Your vet knows your cat, has the blood work in front of him/her, and is the best person to guide you on this decision... I highly highly recommend you to listen and discuss this with your vet - there will be no one better to assist you IMHO.

I did tell my vet that I was adding the canned pumpkin to the wet food, and she said that was good. She said a laxative would work as well.

I could have sworn I had a bunch of people telling me last time the vet wanted to put him on this particular diet that I should keep him on the high protein/low grain food. Maybe they weren't aware of his age, or I'm just remembering incorrectly.

It can't hurt to give it a shot I guess, it'll just be a major pita since I free feed both cats the same food and won't be able to do that anymore. I'll figure out a way to make it work. Thanks for your input

ETA: My vet did mention a few prescription foods that would be available, I only remember Purina, Science Diet, Royal Canin, and Eukanuba off of the top of my head.

strange_wings · Mar 24, 2011

Of course you'll be told that. Some on here take the grain free too far and don't realize these foods are not suitable for all cats. It sound right in theory, but results varyâ€¦

Do as the vet advises and keep up with wet food. Ask the vet whether they think a non-script wet will be fine or if they want to keep him on a specific formula.

labyrinth · Mar 24, 2011

Thank you both. I feel better now about switching his food. It's going to be hard since both cats are used to having their kibble available 24/7 and I won't be able to do that anymore since they will be on different diets, but I'll figure it out somehow.

Any idea how long it should take the pumpkin to clear up the constipation? There was still only 1 poop in the litterbox this evening. Would the laxative be more effective?

carolina · Mar 24, 2011

Originally Posted by Labyrinth

Thank you both. I feel better now about switching his food. It's going to be hard since both cats are used to having their kibble available 24/7 and I won't be able to do that anymore since they will be on different diets, but I'll figure it out somehow.

Any idea how long it should take the pumpkin to clear up the constipation? There was still only 1 poop in the litterbox this evening. Would the laxative be more effective?

I think pumpkin would be so much healthier.... When my cats are really constipated though I give them Temptations Hairball Treats - it works like a laxative, here works like a charm. My vet and I worked this solution together. Just make sure to feed it to him slowly - some cats will throw it up if they eat these treats too fast. The treats work in a day or so.
I just started giving pumpkin to my cats, so I can't answer your question as far as how long it takes to work...

labyrinth · Mar 24, 2011

Originally Posted by Carolina

I think pumpkin would be so much healthier.... When my cats are really constipated though I give them Temptations Hairball Treats - it works like a laxative, here works like a charm. My vet and I worked this solution together. Just make sure to feed it to him slowly - some cats will throw it up if they eat these treats too fast. The treats work in a day or so.
I just started giving pumpkin to my cats, so I can't answer your question as far as how long it takes to work...

Those are actually the only treats he gets. He gets 3 every night. He turns his nose up at anything else I try to offer him

I remember giving him about 20 one day to help him hack up a hairball, I didn't realize they were good for constipation too.

carolina · Mar 25, 2011

Originally Posted by Labyrinth

Those are actually the only treats he gets. He gets 3 every night. He turns his nose up at anything else I try to offer him

I remember giving him about 20 one day to help him hack up a hairball, I didn't realize they were good for constipation too.

You need to give 10 at a time

Not more, not less - and yes! They are Awesome for constipation!!!

They work as a mild tasty laxative

You can actually regulate the poop pretty well with it - if the poop is too dry/kitty is straining, give 11-12, poop is good, keep giving 10.
10 a day, at once is the regular dose (says right in the package).
But as I said, give it piece by piece, as they like it too much and have a tendency to gobble it down.

Here is the thing though - Is the kitty pooping at all? Because if he is not, a vet trip is in order... Kitty's gotta poop.

So, in extreme cases yes, laxatives and even an enema might be necessary...

persi & alley · Mar 25, 2011

Originally Posted by Carolina

I highly highly recommend you to listen and discuss this with your vet - there will be no one better to assist you IMHO.

but sound advice!

labyrinth · Mar 25, 2011

I picked up the prescription food and will start him on that today. As for the number of treats, I always gave them to him just as a treat not with an actual purpose (unless he was hacking then I gave him extra). We give all the pets a bedtime treat, and that's his. I'll try upping the amount he gets for a little while until his poops are consistently normal again though. He did not poop yesterday, but he has pooped today. Hopefully this means he's getting back on track to being regular again.

carolina · Mar 26, 2011

Originally Posted by Labyrinth

I picked up the prescription food and will start him on that today. As for the number of treats, I always gave them to him just as a treat not with an actual purpose (unless he was hacking then I gave him extra). We give all the pets a bedtime treat, and that's his. I'll try upping the amount he gets for a little while until his poops are consistently normal again though. He did not poop yesterday, but he has pooped today. Hopefully this means he's getting back on track to being regular again.

Remember to transition the food slowly... I do it in the course of 10 days or so - you should have instructions on the bag, but essentially you give a little more of the new food and a little less of the old every day until you switch completely to avoid digestive problems

feralvr · Mar 26, 2011

Have read through this thread and have nothing better to offer than the advice already given. But want to thank Carolina about giving the Temptation Hairball treats. Will try these for Pipsqueak who now is dealing with very dry poops.

labyrinth · Jun 4, 2011

I can't find my last thread, but a while ago I posted about my 16 year old cat Max. He had been losing weight, and he pooped in my daughters closet and vomiting now and then. I took him in and they did some bloodwork. They checked his kidney and his thyroid and both were borderline problematic but still in the normal range. My vet recommended switching him to their prescription kidney health diet so that is what he is eating now.

He's still vomiting sporadically, he is not gaining any weight (he's at 9.7 pounds now, and has been a large framed 12 pound cat his entire adult life), and he just pooped on our bed. My vet told me the normal weight range for a cat is between 8-10 pounds, but that if Max continued to lose weight he would give me an appetite stimulant for him. I picked up the stimulant yesterday and started him on that last night. I did have his blood rechecked about a month after the first draw and his numbers did improve after having been on the new diet for that length of time.

I'm honestly at my wits end. I know he's old so he's at or nearing the end of his life and I'm tired and frustrated with cleaning up the messes (vomit and now poop), but I will not have him put down until I know that it's the last option. I'll be calling my vet again on Monday, but was hoping in the mean time someone here might have some sort of idea what is going on. I'd like to have some ideas to bring up with my vet when I speak to him.

Willowy · Jun 4, 2011

I think I would talk to the vet about possibly treating for hyperthyroid. . .even if the numbers are only borderline high, that can cause symptoms in some cats. I know that hyperthyroid can cause vomiting and weight loss, and that can make the cat feel crummy so they start having litterbox issues. Anyway, ask the vet to see what he/she thinks about that.

just mike · Jun 5, 2011

Originally Posted by strange_wings

Of course you'll be told that. Some on here take the grain free too far and don't realize these foods are not suitable for all cats. It sound right in theory, but results varyâ€¦

Do as the vet advises and keep up with wet food. Ask the vet whether they think a non-script wet will be fine or if they want to keep him on a specific formula.

Excellent advice SW. I was about to say something very similar. As much as I want to sometimes; I have learned to never try to outguess my vet. And yes, the GF is not suitable for all cats, nor is it suitable for all dogs. There is a reason these foods exist, just as there are reasons for the prescription diets.

labyrinth · Jun 5, 2011

Originally Posted by Willowy

I think I would talk to the vet about possibly treating for hyperthyroid. . .even if the numbers are only borderline high, that can cause symptoms in some cats. I know that hyperthyroid can cause vomiting and weight loss, and that can make the cat feel crummy so they start having litterbox issues. Anyway, ask the vet to see what he/she thinks about that.

Thank you, I'll bring that up with him. Right now the poop has very little form to it, and the last two days one of my cats (everything is much more difficult to determine since he's not an only cat) has peed in the ferret playroom downstairs. I've never seen Max go in there at all otherwise I would be positive he was doing that too. My other cat isn't displaying any symptoms of anything, so aside from the fact that I've seen him go in that room to play with the ferrets when they are out I have no reason to think he's the one doing that. Whoever is peeing in there does it when the ferrets are upstairs in their cage, and the one cat I've seen go in there will play with them from time to time but Max has no interest in playing with them at all.

He's not too thrilled about the appetite stimulant I'm giving him, but he is definitely eating again and he hasn't thrown up since before I started him on it. So at least there is some good news. Is it possible he's been going outside of the box just because he wasn't eating? Probably not I'm sure, but I'm grasping at straws and I hate to drag him down to the vet again since it upsets him so much. Every single time I have to take him in the car anywhere he always pees all over himself in the carrier, so the less I have to take him out of the house the better.

It's a shame our pets can't stay young and healthy forever

ETA: Thanks to the mods for attaching this to my previous thread

labyrinth · Jun 12, 2011

Turns out I was mistaken about his thyroid levels. It was borderline problematic 2 years ago, but it was perfectly fine when tested recently.

What else could be wrong? Even with the appetite stimulant he's barely eating, and he keeps losing weight. I weighed him last night and he's down to 8.6 pounds now. I can see his hip bones and feel all the vertebrae on his spine when I pet him. He's not weak or off balance at all, and he's the same lovable cat as always. I'm calling the vet again tomorrow, but what else can it be? There must be something else the vet can test for. He's 16 so if it's his time I can handle that, but right now he's just wasting away and I need to know for sure there is nothing that I can do to help him.

violet · Jun 12, 2011

I just read through your entire thread to make sure I wouldn't suggest anything already taken care of.

In my experience in cats that age (besides CRF) with weight loss and lack of appetite the possibilities include inflammation in the digestive tract, pancreatitis, and some kind of cancer. (From what I've seen, CRF doesn't cause severe weight loss until the disease is quite advanced.)

Important: has a dental/oral problem been ruled out by a very thorough oral exam?

Also important: is there a chance Max doesn't like his food and that's why he's not eating and losing weight?

One more thing. I believe you didn't say what appetite stimulant you're using (or I might have overlooked that), but whatever it is, you can get a different one and you can also get a transdermal formula that's not causing any stress to the cat when administered.

A few years ago one of mine was vomiting and losing weight. I thought, surely, we had reached the point where at her age she was dying of something, but tests didn't show anything else besides inflammation in the digestive tract. Long story short, it turned out she had a case of serious food intolerance and as soon as she wasn't getting one particular food any more she started to recover.
So I'm wondering, could something like this (food intolerance) be a possibility with your Max also?

We've always had good results with comprehensive testing, so my recommendation would be a whole body X-ray, a whole body ultrasound, and the fPLI blood test for pancreatitis.
Also, depending on how long ago your vet did complete blood work, you might need a new complete chemistry profile and CBC.

I'm afraid if your vet doesn't suggest the tests I mentioned, you'll have to ask/insist on doing them. In order to help your baby you'll need those results.

violet · Jun 12, 2011

PS

I'd like you to have this article because there is important information in it

http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/k...in-older-cats/

labyrinth · Jun 12, 2011

Originally Posted by Violet

I just read through your entire thread to make sure I wouldn't suggest anything already taken care of.

In my experience in cats that age (besides CRF) with weight loss and lack of appetite the possibilities include inflammation in the digestive tract, pancreatitis, and some kind of cancer. (From what I've seen, CRF doesn't cause severe weight loss until the disease is quite advanced.)

Important: has a dental/oral problem been ruled out by a very thorough oral exam?

Also important: is there a chance Max doesn't like his food and that's why he's not eating and losing weight?

One more thing. I believe you didn't say what appetite stimulant you're using (or I might have overlooked that), but whatever it is, you can get a different one and you can also get a transdermal formula that's not causing any stress to the cat when administered.

A few years ago one of mine was vomiting and losing weight. I thought, surely, we had reached the point where at her age she was dying of something, but tests didn't show anything else besides inflammation in the digestive tract. Long story short, it turned out she had a case of serious food intolerance and as soon as she wasn't getting one particular food any more she started to recover.
So I'm wondering, could something like this (food intolerance) be a possibility with your Max also?

We've always had good results with comprehensive testing, so my recommendation would be a whole body X-ray, a whole body ultrasound, and the fPLI blood test for pancreatitis.
Also, depending on how long ago your vet did complete blood work, you might need a new complete chemistry profile and CBC.

I'm afraid if your vet doesn't suggest the tests I mentioned, you'll have to ask/insist on doing them. In order to help your baby you'll need those results.

I think my vet checked his mouth last time, but I'm not positive. This had actually occurred to me earlier so I took a look but didn't see any obvious problems, but that doesn't mean there isn't something I didn't see.

The stimulant is a pill called Cyproheptadine 4mg, the instructions are to give him 1/2 a pill twice a day. I just toss it to the back of his throat and he swallows it easily, he doesn't seem very bothered by the process at all.

I would've figured it to be the food as well, but he started losing weight on his old food before changing to the prescription diet (It's the entire reason I brought him to the vet in the first place). I've started offering him his old food again just to see if he's more cooperative in eating that than the prescription stuff but still doesn't eat much. We started him out on K/D prescription, and I recently changed it to Purina NF which he seemed to eat more of for about a day then went back to barely eating anything. He didn't even touch the canned food I tried to feed him.

I'll print out this post to ask my vet about those tests as I know I won't remember them. Hopefully he'll be able to give me an answer one way or the other to what is going on with him.

I'm so confused

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