3 ferals at snow

jtbo

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Here is some story about 3 feral cats and how we ended up under same roof.

First off, sorry if my english is not perfect, as it is my 2nd or 3rd language, depending how you count them, oh and post will be really long, but hopefully it gives something to someone at someday.

During summer of 2010 I did encounter a cat in my warehouse extension section of my house, encounters were quite quick, cat spotted me, ditched to hole next to stairs where she could run outside, few times we met so, that I was between exit and her, in those cases she jumped to wall and climbed up to wall faster than I can run on floor.

Now our summer season is not very long, there is about 4 months of good weather and here only one or most two months of weather without temperatures dropping below 0C during nights.

I did start feeding her, slowly visits started to be daily, then several times in a day, I was bit worried of how poor creature will survive from upcoming winter, so I did decide to trap her.

I set up trap to warehouse and put her food in it, found at the morning that trap had set off and there were no cat, but food had gone.

Few nights passed, then I found some really big tom cat from the trap, he had forced himself already half way out from the trap by bending metal wires so that there was gap between gate and body of trap. It was quite thrilling to help him out from the jammed position, cat had rather large paws with big claws and lot of steam to unleash, so while he was swinging his paws around and throwing his neck while trying to put those big teeths into my meat, I tried to pry trap open so that he can get off and at the same time I was hoping he would now jump to my throat right when his rear section is released.

All did go well, no bites, after little struggle he was hissing at me fur erect and back arched, so I step back, go to my knees and turned side of my head to his direction, soon hissing stopped and he jumped on top of sofa that is on self near the ceiling (warehouse is not very small).

I have known that tomcat for quite some time, about two years, he pretty much dislikes me, but comes to mate at warehouse, because feral females come there too, my warehouse is kind of feral crossing station, they come and go, especially at spring.

So after night after that I found some hair on floor and one plexiglass window broken to pieces, after checking up from surveillance video I did found out that this tomcat had a fight with a cat I had not seen before and decided to escape trough the plexiglass window, which I really did not thought being possible at all, however there were no other explanation after seeing low fps footage. where there were two cats, then some dark smudge and after that window pieces.

So those two or one of them is/are father of two kittens that this story's original cat gave birth.

Now after that incident with trap, I decided to build trap of my own, I did use whole warehouse as a trap, made trap mechanism using one strong spring as actuator to close the door, with that I did succesfully captured the female feral which I had seen often in warehouse (in that time I had no idea that she might be pregnant or that she might have kittens). However, I did underestimated strenght of the cat, even door was so hard to open that I did need my both hands, she did manage to pull it open and escape once again, at that point I thought that I will never see the cat again.

It took perhaps a week or so and I did spot her again eating at warehouse, running off again when she hear me, but I kept feeding her, trying to offer her some good meat whenever I met her on yard. It was late July when she let me lie on ground 5 meters from her, 1 foot is ~0.33 meters if you are not familiar with metric system we use here.

She started to sit at front door during those times, then came August and we slowly had developed a habit of me throwing meat to her and she picking it up and running to bushes, then come for more, this did happen on daily bases and there was cat food on warehouse that she did eat during the day when she did not liked to see any human beings.

Late August I found her on my driveway when returning from shop, it was bit odd at first as she was sitting on road, but as I got closer (around 20 meters from her) I did noticed two tiny furballs moving around her with not so smooth manners, that was first time that I did saw her kittens, it was like she had bring them to show them to me. I did put again some meat to near bushes and she did eat there, but I was clearly not allowed to come closer than that 20 meters.

During next few days I did saw her bringin kittens to warehouse to eat solid food, but still she escaped from warehouse if I did entered there, so I did kept intervaning at minimum, so they could find place safe to spend some time.
During the day when she usually stayed some other place, I did build some shelters into warehouse from boxes, I did put holes into cardboard boxes, stuffed them with old clothes, some old blankets inside boxes etc. Also put water into a bowl and got some kitten food.

At September temperatures started to go below freezing already, so I did introduce electric heater to them, which they gladly accepted and they started to spend more and more time in warehouse.

All the time I have had webcam at warehouse recording from movement so I know what happens in there, also it broadcasts video over network so I could watch them any time I liked, was much better than what comes from tv these days.

I started to make them some toys, some toys I did bought, also started regular feeding schedules. They still often went outside for a day, also usually did run away when I bring food.

At october we had first snow, so I build a box where they could stay warm, I used some urethane and material called Finnfoam, that is kind of styrofoam but cell size is similar to urethane.

It took two weeks from them to try out the box, mother cat took 3 weeks until she started sleeping in it.

At November we had permanent snow and temperatures did go permanently under freezing point, water and wet food which I had started to give them became frozen quite fast, so I did build heated place to keep their food and water, during this point it was late November and one of the kittens were eating from the spoon now and then. Mother cat still hid when I did came to give food.

Late November we got Arctic chill, temperatures falled to almost -29C (-20.2F) and I started to worry about how warm their box will be as it is rather large in size, so I did put electric heating on it and flap to hole so that heat stays inside bit better. I could not put flap into it at first as they were not entering into it with flap on, but as they were already used to sleep in the box I could put flap on now.

Winter did progress, snow accumulated so that we had over 70cm of snow at end of December.

During December I increased number of visits so that I visited them 4 times a day providing food every time. Both kittens were eating from the spoon and mother cat did stay inside the warehouse, keeping eye of my actions.

I did started also playing with kittens, first they could manage to do only few minutes, but soon they could play longer than I on that freezing -20C temperature which we were having at the time.

January of 2011 had mild weather, so I could play with kittens 30 minutes, sometimes even more, mother cat did exit from warehouse when I did play with kittens, but at end of January she started to try playing too, only few punches with paw to string on stick, but still started to show interest to playing.

February of 2011 has been really fast improvement, I have provided them with litter boxes which they have learned to use, also I have opened access to indoors now, they were scared of it at January so had to hold that back until now, in about 3 weeks time kittens did learn to visit indoors and also spend time there even I was inside, other kitten was safely running past me, while other was more reserved and kept his distance, even at warehouse both learned to eat from hand and lick fingers, even mother cat started to eat from hand.

Then we finally reach situation of today and this last week, I did install a proper cat door as having hole size of man's head in a door replacement board when there was -37C outside was not the most energy efficient solution.

However this has lead to a situation that I was not completely prepared. While I did install the door, all cats did pay attention and were curious about it, then I started to teach them how to use the door, but before I got started other kitten jumped inside while I was closing the door, there I thought that ok, I teach how to get out first, but kitten got spooked during the progress and did run under the bed and started to sink into deep panic mode.

I did some thinking there, if I let it out from door, then it would be impossible to get it back inside before mother cat starts to get rid of kittens as new heat will start soon, day is already lot longer than 5 hours what we had at December, also I did see how kittens had act of sex bit over week ago, which is one of worries too, so one that got inside is a girl and one that was left outside is a boy.

Current situation is that I have confined girl kitten into dark room which is not used. Then boy kitten I have been training to use cat door, which I have set so that when he gets in, he can't get out and mother cat I just feed as she shows no interest to inside of house.

What I want is to get both kittens inside and get them both as pets, of course also neutered too. I could also give indoor cat life to mother cat, but I doubt if that would be success, probably I have to use some other trap method to capture and then neuter her. Release is option bit questionable in this our climate, also after capturing once again, I don't know if she would stay around, I could allow her then to stay as outdoor cat, but I don't know what will happen when summer comes, will she look new locations or will her still be around?

With confined kitten situation is now such that it is 3rd night, she has been there two days as I did caught her at the evening. Today she started eating at early in morning, still trying to escape trough the walls, as this is old house there are some leaks at corners and as cat senses them she tries to dig trough soft wood parts. However this evening she has started to play a bit, also she has eaten most of cat candy I left for her, so probably she is starting to come around a bit and not just sitting under the bed.

I don't know if our previous relationship where she let me already to touch her a little has any affect to progress of socializing, but I try to follow path of fully foreign feral socialization and let her come closer when she is ready, there is no rush.
One big issue is that act of sex, she perhaps had her first heat then? Maybe she is then pregnant too, what are the odds 90%? As she is about 7 months old now. Abort would be perhaps best thing to do, but is that possible? I don't even know if those two have had happy nights for long before.

With boy kitten I really do hope that things would work out and he would enter trough the door, so far he has entered only when I have pryed door open and called him, but I hope that he would come soon as I think those two could socialize lot better if they would have each other to trust, but I'm pretty much beginner at these things.

What has surprised me is that mother cat and boy kitten keep going as if nothing have had happened, even one of them is missing and that one was the most active one of them all.

I don't know age of mother cat, but she has matured a lot during this time, so I would think that she is under two years?

So this small book is how my ferals life has been and is as I know it.

This is the girl kitten:


Boy kitten:


Mother, young:


Bit older:
 

krz

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I truly enjoyed reading your post. How hard you have worked to take such good care of these kitties. They are certainly lucky to have found you.

Are you able to get the kittens and their mom spayed/neutered? That would be the first thing I would try to do. I think they are just beautiful. I would also add that time and patience are so key in getting them socialized and you certainly seem to have both of those qualities.
 
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jtbo

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Originally Posted by KRZ

I truly enjoyed reading your post. How hard you have worked to take such good care of these kitties. They are certainly lucky to have found you.

Are you able to get the kittens and their mom spayed/neutered? That would be the first thing I would try to do. I think they are just beautiful. I would also add that time and patience are so key in getting them socialized and you certainly seem to have both of those qualities.
Thank you from your kind words.

I'm definitely going to spay/neuter them, I can give living quarters for 3 cats without problem, however if there are going to be more of them it starts to get expensive and also space starts to become a problem, also as my job requires trips to other locations at times it would be difficult to give newborns all the attention they do require, also that is reason why I wish at least two of them would socialize well enough to live stress free life inside the house as they could keep company to each other if I'm gone.

I did originally hope that they could come inside by themselves, however time and clock of nature started to work against me there, progress has also been slowed down a bit by my work and perhaps I could have spend more time with them earlier already, but I was scared that if I push it they would get scared and go seek new location.

I have had only one cat before, it was one I found from my warehouse, did hiss at me with ears folded back at first, but within a summer she was sitting on my lap at outside and one day when I did return home I found her running towards me with tail pointed straight up. She did move inside and was sleeping next to me in a bed at autumn, someone probably had dumped their house cat into forest and she did then found out that my warehouse had plenty of mouses to eat, lot of farming around here so mice are constant issue.

Unfortunately one time she was outside she did not come in, I got bit worried and searched bit around calling her, but none to found, around 2am I found her from nearby deep ditch, ditch was frozen quite well, but she was lifeless in water and ice were broken, there was not yet snow. When I lifted her out I did noticed that there were blood coming from her nose and there was nothing I could do. It was even greater shock when I checked surveillance tapes, some trespasser had grabber her and carried towards location where I found her. Act itself was not caught on tape, but I truly hope I will never meet that trespasser in person as I might do some unspeakable things.

That is background of what experience I have from cats, not by much, but got scratched by a lynx as a kid, no catpowers were transferred though, but maybe some desire to have them around


These cats will have only controlled outside life when I get them first socialized properly, probably full indoor life is not possible as they are so used to go outside, but I don't like risks that are outside, we have here at countryside healthy population of foxes and such, also house is on Lynx's territory, and there are occasionally some trespasser, that is why I have video surveillance, so it is not the most cat friendly area outside.



It is difficult to teach that boy kitten how to use cat door, he goes now trough it if I jam door open, but if door is closed he does not even approach it until I open it and call him, then throw some cat treats from the opening, but right when I close it he loses all interest, even there is good smelly food inside.
Of course he has now came trough opening two times and he is used to flaps that he can pull open, so now I left cat door half way open, maybe he will become curious enough.
With tame cat it would be really easy as you could keep door open with your hand, but with this feral I need to be in sight, but enough far back towards door and doing something with my hands, then he comes in.

Funny about this is that he kept sleeping days inside already when there was that large opening in place of door and during nights often came inside to explore. This new door is something he is scared of or that he does not fully understands.
I could walk around downstairs while he was sleeping at kitchen near the opening. It probably just will take bit more time, which is running out and fast as temperatures too are rising outside. He is always positioned so that he can leave before I have chance to cut his escape route off, so I have not been even trying to do such things.
 

StefanZ

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Originally Posted by JTbo

First off, sorry if my english is not perfect, as it is my 2nd or 3rd language, depending how you count them,.............





I have known that tomcat for quite some time, about two years, he pretty much dislikes me, but comes to mate at warehouse, because feral females come there too, my warehouse is kind of feral crossing station, they come and go, especially at spring.

.........................................



What I want is to get both kittens inside and get them both as pets, of course also neutered too. I could also give indoor cat life to mother cat, but I doubt if that would be success, probably I have to use some other trap method to capture and then neuter her. Release is option bit questionable in this our climate, also after capturing once again, I don't know if she would stay around, I could allow her then to stay as outdoor cat, but I don't know what will happen when summer comes, will she look new locations or will her still be around?
Hi, welcome to the Forums!

Many of us doesnt have english as native language. I for example have english as my third language.

I see you are on good way.
I agree with you and KRZ, neutering is a high priority. Neutering can be done even if they already pregnant. Late pregnancy spaying may be tricky if the vet is unexperienced surgeon. But early pregnancies are no big deal.

The mom will almost surely stay with you too after the neutering, if you release her, and accept to live with you as your outside cat.
If she is neutered it may even be easier to foster her.



A couple of tips into giving them more courage and wellbeing:
A Feliway diffuser. Preferably the electrical one, not the spray. (google on it). Works very nicely.
You can also try with classical soft music. Harp music is best, says our knowleable LDG, but almost any soft, calming music will do.


Your warehouse is heavily trafficked by ferales yes? It would be very good to spay them. If you arent made of money, you cant probably do it all alone.
You can surely cooperate with some cat shelter nearby, (which is interested in semiferales - not all cat shelters are). Or probably even the authorities of your city will cooperate. As long as they themselves dont need to do much, only some help with money and such.
Please, begin to plan on it...


Good luck!
 
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jtbo

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One problem currently is to find vet that actually knows cats, as this is country side we do have vets that know cows, horses and dogs, but it has been in culture that cats are on their own, roam and breed freely, so it is more difficult to find good vet, finding one near is impossible, nearest is 30km away to find good one it probably is around 100km away, travelling with feral cat such long distances on bad roads can be very frightening experience so that too needs some planning.

I have been living this place about 3 years now and I did not even notice there were cats in my warehouse at first year, only after I installed video surveillance reality was shown to me.

Surely them all deserve better life than hiding in snow, but attitude in this area is not very modern, TNR does not exists, in cities situation is much better.

Actually I know Feliway, but when I wen't to buy it from nearest pet shop (that is also 30km away), they had only Felifriend, which is F4 while Feliway is F3, I did read about them and usage is similar, but from effect I'm not sure. I will get that diffuser during the week when I visit large city that actually has such things available.

I have indeed radio playing classical station too, did some homework reading lot of topics here and other places too, great amount of information


Today that girl was vocal first time without jumping, after using litter box she sounded twice something I would guess was loneliness or something like that, so I wen't in and cleaned her box, talked to her and also I did build new toy from string and toilet paper inner part, put some treats to it so she can attack to it and get some rewards. I have not seen her yesterday and not today either, at first day I saw her and she came edge of bed to see what I was doing as I had to cat proof one location so she don't hurt herself, but at least she eats now.

Boy kitten and mom both visited at cat door, that is partially open, but they did not enter inside even boy kitten's nose was inside, he did not dare to push door open, they are taking more risks at evening, also need to use Felifriend to that area, it should help a bit too.

I did calculate that so far I have spent over 3000 to these tree from last summer, that is euros, so they are very valuable to me in many ways. Big part comes from extra heating, but it is worth it, imo.
 

StefanZ

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Originally Posted by JTbo

One problem currently is to find vet that actually knows cats, as this is country side we do have vets that know cows, horses and dogs, but it has been in culture that cats are on their own, roam and breed freely, so it is more difficult to find good vet, finding one near is impossible, nearest is 30km away to find good one it probably is around 100km away, travelling with feral cat such long distances on bad roads can be very frightening experience so that too needs some planning.


....

Actually I know Feliway, but when I wen't to buy it from nearest pet shop (that is also 30km away), they had only Felifriend, which is F4 while Feliway is F3, I did read about them and usage is similar, but from effect I'm not sure. I will get that diffuser during the week when I visit large city that actually has such things available.

....

I did calculate that so far I have spent over 3000 to these tree from last summer, that is euros, so they are very valuable to me in many ways. Big part comes from extra heating, but it is worth it, imo.
3000 euros, ie almost 30.000 swedish crowns, or about 4000 US-dollars...
Gosh, you could buy half a dozen of pedigree cats with decent parentage too... Lol.
Of course, buying yourself a clean conscience AND a wonderful pastime is more than worth these money...

It is also more nice to be a savior, than merely an owner.


About the vets. For standard uncomplicated spaying/neutering, and spaying in early pregnancies, they doesnt need to be cat specialist. Nor even first class surgeons. It is butter and bread surgery for them all.
If they know dogs it should be OK for most errands.

In the countryside, with lots of farmers and or horse-owners, a quite common procedure with farm or stable cats, is, when the vet visites the stable for doing his work with the large animals, you ask himher to look also at the cats. (if you plan surgery, ask befoere they come, so they can plan).
This way, no transport is necessary (although you must catch the cats, of course. Catch when you can, they can wait in their carrier even 24 hours if need be). With any luck, the vet will reduce the fee for this consultation - he is anyway there and get fully payed.
You do perhaps have some neighbour who is a farmer, so you could cooperate??

You can probably get Feliway from Internet-shops. Im almost sure swedish cat-internet shops does have them, if no Finnish have.
Do you have possibility to buy Felifriend? Splendid! As far I know, they dont sell Felifriend in the USA - so this advice doesnt work for most of our forumists...

Many vets use them - it is good when you shall handle afraid or panicked cats. Ie taking in them and so on, holding them and so on.
Say, catching and setting in or out from the trap or carrier.
Spray profusely at your hands before you do.


Good luck!
 
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jtbo

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They do eat quite a lot, but that is because they are outside and there is cold, one cold weekend they did eat 1.5kg of meat + dry food and probably mouse or two, it is not so bad anymore as kittens have grown bigger, but food costs alone are quite massive with these.

Boy is not allowing me to touch himself, leans back and lifts paw up if I even try, 5-6 months was where he started to become such, it is not that he would be afraid of hands, just some dislike for touching, I guess. He could use good session with a brush, but before catching and vet visits I think it is better not to even try anything.

I did research one internet shop from UK that has lower postage costs than any internet shop in here Finland, but that is often so, also they sell Feliway with really good price, $33.31 or €25.58, that is almost half the price I could get it from Finland with delivery.
Don't know if Felifriend has had much effect to those two still on warehouse, they act just same as before, they are still very careful when eating from hand, I just can't let them be without the food, even hunger is powerful tool to get them use the door, amount and quality of food is just different and they know there is more and better stuff inside.

I smell girl has had little accident, this is problem when cat is under the bed and not in enclosure, cleaning can be bit problematic as need to move bed and that is her safe place, she is already playing and such, but only when I'm not around, when I'm around she is staying very still and very hidden.

Good to know that all vets should be able to handle spaying/neutering, so I can pick closest one for that.

Other two seem not to be able to understand concept of cat door, when door was half way open they did put their head inside again, but they are careful not to move the door, there was food so close that all they would need to do was put front paws inside, but it was too much for them, maybe tomorrow they are getting over their fears.

It would of been just too easy to get tame cat with good familytree, I think ferals have more spark in them and indeed it is quite much better to spend time working with cats than sitting at front of tv, surely with this route one learns quite well that giving is having or something like that.

Oh, does it happen that some cats are vocal after using litterbox?
Girl has sounded some different sounds after getting covering up done.

She is also making sounds other times, I guess she feels lonely there, but she is very afraid when I visit, so I have tried to go there only to deliver food and water. Could use some cat language program, even there are loads of information how to 'read' cat there is lot less from all different sounds
 

StefanZ

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Originally Posted by JTbo

She is also making sounds other times, I guess she feels lonely there, but she is very afraid when I visit, so I have tried to go there only to deliver food and water. Could use some cat language program, even there are loads of information how to 'read' cat there is lot less from all different sounds
I think she is mature now for the next step. Ie you go in not only for giving food, but also for simply being in the same room. Working with your lap top, reading. Taking a little nap is surely good.
Reading aloud....
I dont think you need to copy cat language. But trying to use cat language is still good.
Thus. Do talk a lot in a friendly tone. Even baby talk. I had noticed many successfull fosterers have good results here, talking much and talking friendly.
And why not? Friendly toms who do court instead of rape do talk a lot, and if necessary, knows a lot of sounds. You would be suprised to know there are so many different sounds in a cat...


Knowing some of the cat body language is good. And I think you can already some much of it - thinking on how you did bravely turned your head aside being at close quarters with this big tom cat... A total self control.
So dont look directly into their eyes, look a little aside. Or looking directly at, halfclose your eyes - like friendly cats do.
Do yawn now and then. Standing on all fours, do strech on yourself - both forward or backwards are fine.
Like friendly cats do...
There are surely also other tips...

Home-raised cats are used for looking into the eyes - humans do and they do. But NOT ferales and homeless... Raised hand is of course also threating...


See you!
 
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jtbo

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Originally Posted by My4LLMA

Wow I love the fur on those cats!
Just think about shedding when summer comes / or they start to adjust indoor life, amount of vacuuming will be overhelming

Good thing my vacuum cleaner is bagless model, otherwise might get backrupt from buying vacuum cleaner bags


StefanZ: With these tree I have learned many expressions that they seem to someway understand, if I would like them to pay attention to some object, I just need to look it and tilt my head on side and other side, point it and ask with silly babytalk voice "what is this?" and it is quaranteed that they will come to examine. But they have learned too, they have also names, which probably don't make any sense to most of readers, but when I call mother cat, I just call her name like you would ask kid that is not coming out under the bed (luring friendly phase of such, not that one were you already have losed your nerves
), most of the time they do respond well to their name, cat that's name was called comes to look what is going on, but of course cat does not always come, sometimes they turn only head or only ears, but it is funny how one whom name I call is always first to act, so I guess that by calling them when you feed them from hand they learn to associate that word to food or good feeling.

Usually I call food, cat, come, which results them all being scrambled to location of promised proteine portition.

To encourage a cat to approach, I sit over my legs knees towards cat, side of my head towards cat and my eyes are closed, hands resting on my legs with fingers curled, then I just relax and be quiet, they wait maybe as long as 30 seconds, but then start to come closer, that way I got mother cat to eat when I was near and also later got her to eat from my hand.

But, there is other expression almost the same, but in this one your back is not straight, but curved, head tilted down so chin is at chest and you close your eyes really hard so you get winkles, if I have judged this one correctly it means I like you, but please could you move bit backwards as I'm afraid of you, but I'm not an expert, it can mean lot of other things too, however it is expression mother cat uses at me quite often as she is most scared to approach me.

Looking into eyes is bad indeed, but that is very difficult part for me, I always 'hit' their eyes even I try not to, but immediately I turn my head aside.

At dark evenings of autumn we met sometimes at yard, there I then after offering them something to eat did go to lie on my back and mother cat then came to ~3 feet from me and did lie down there staring quietly. However at winter they have not been so brave at outside, actually there has been some week where they did not go outside at all, but if I do something on yard, there are small spying eyes around me, even I don't see them.

We have some form of understanding between us and I think it is partly because of cat language.

Oh, one thing they are very curious about is if I scratch myself under the chin like cat is scratching himself from ear, usually someone comes to look closer with curious face.

Mother cat specially understand pointing quite well, if I point myself then with two finger imitate walking and point some direction she understands that I'm going to go that direction, so she positions herself to optimal place for escape and surveillance according to my pointing, so I wait until she is in place and them move, helps a lot as otherwise she would always get spooked from my moving around.

I have observed that cat's tail works also as turning signal, when they move and make a turn, tail turns first, maybe it is because of balancing but that helps me to know where they are planning to go, even sometimes it is only very small change.

Few times I have had success of telling cat what is good place to sit, by tapping place twice and then rubbing it twice, also I have talked about it, but it is quite limited what words cat can learn, but I remember reading that they can learn something around 30 words, don't know if that is true.

There is many pages at Internet where they tell what cat's tail tells, or what cat ears tell, but I don't think that alone is enough, I believe that one needs to read cat as whole, including body position, and all those messages together to get real meaning, they are hunters and very good ones, so it would be silly to assume they are not sending sometimes different messages with for example tail than what their true intention is.

These tree are great team players, one often distracts me so two can relocate to better position, also if they would like to get something, one acts as bait, one keeps watch while one goes to get the item and I find that new cat toy was stolen from me before I could give it to them, they really often outsmart me with that


So I hope to get that boy cat soon too, so they could start planning such things again, of course vet visit is in order first.

Little girl had made bit of renowating during the night, also water bowl was filled with blanket again, probably water gets too warm during the night.

Sorry that I seem not be able to write shortly about anything
 

StefanZ

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Originally Posted by JTbo

But, there is other expression almost the same, but in this one your back is not straight, but curved, head tilted down so chin is at chest and you close your eyes really hard so you get winkles, if I have judged this one correctly it means I like you, but please could you move bit backwards as I'm afraid of you, but I'm not an expert, it can mean lot of other things too, however it is expression mother cat uses at me quite often as she is most scared to approach me.
You have discovered a lot about the cat body language. You have apparently a knack for it.


Although this here cited I believe is "simply" their friendship-love look.
Camouflaged because she IS ferale from the beginning, and thus - she is still shy and verry cautious.
If she wasnt ferale she would already be your loving pet.

I was thinking about her letting her kittens play with you, although still afraid of you - and essentially free to flee and escape.

IF she though you a real danger, she would never allow her kittens to play with you. She would hiss, and teach her kittens with striking them with the forepaw to stop them and make them learn. Like she would warn and protect them before any danger. Theoretically, she could even attack you.
But she let you play with them - thus - she doesnt saw you as a real danger any longer.

Catched semiferal and feral moms, fostered by rescuers do also allow their kittens to be handled by humans. But they are catched and confined, they dont have really any choice. They know their only real chance is to copy with the situation, which is also the best practical solution: for a mom the welfare for her children is most important, not "freedom".
But yours cat-mom did had a choice: she could leave with the kittens anytime she wanted. Or stop the kittens from playing with you. They would still get food and shelter from you, as far as she knew.

So I do believe she, although extremely shy - IS trusting you, and thus - I believe she DOES feel friendship with you. As long such a shy, solitary cat can feel friendship to another, not-her-kitten. She does.



I hope you will proceed to make your observations. Please do take notes of them - especielly as you DO like to write lenghy! You will surely be able to make some paper out of this with time.



See you!
 
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jtbo

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She is bit weird mother cat, from very beginning, she has been first to leave, it is bit odd, but maybe she just likes me from some food related reason


Have been signaling her slow blinks since I saw her first time, it does work really well from what I know from my previous cat.

I believe that there is now tiny or bit bigger flea problem on hand, got several red bumps to my skin today after spending some time at girl cat's room.

It is bit unclear to me how actually I get her to vet, hunting her around the room and grabbing from neck, then put to container does not sound very good, it sounds blood stains guarantee to me, however she is not going to just jump into carrier, she will not do so especially if I'm going to be around.

Also I really doubt that she will happily come to flea bath, she is trying her very best to hide from me.

I do have a humane trap, she would probably go there if there is no food elsewhere, might be safest way to catch her and get her where she needs to be, I'm just not sure if I would like to get her scared of traps alredy, but that is perhaps only way to get her caught easily.

I have slowly been bringin her favorite toys from warehouse to her room, maybe those will help her adjust to new surroundings and life.

There is video I got once when they were 'hunting' their mom, I have actually hundreds of gigabytes video from them that shows what cats do when they don't know that they are being watched, probably never will have time to watch it all and most of it is boring routine, but at times something funny is caught.
 

StefanZ

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Originally Posted by JTbo

Also I really doubt that she will happily come to flea bath, she is trying her very best to hide from me.

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Ah yes, fleas. Of course. This is why many rescuers have the new cats in the bathroom during the quarantine. Not only because many doesnt have spare rooms, but it is simply the most practical: this room is the easiest to clean up...

Count also she has some worms and probably earmites too.

There are good spot on anti flea drops. Sold in the pharmacia /apoteke in sweden, so Im sure they are also sold in Finland.
Frontline is good for mites and fleas, and a new all-round Revolution takes most parasites (there may be some brands, ask at the pharmacia...).

this way, you doesnt need to bathe her. It is enough to come near to drop a drop onto her neck. (of course, be beware from open fire, will you? - they are flammable when heated).
The pharmacia has also other medicines taking in internal worms.

Spot on may be the easiest. Othewise you can take pills, and get them into some nice, smelly food.Say tuna-fish.
Or medicine in fluid form - and get them with the wet food.
See to the cat is a little extra hungry, to be sure she eats although the smell is a little different.

If you take her to the vet, the vet can of course also do it.

Nay, the real difficulty is you must clean up all the rooms she was in, possibly also your whole flat. Probably twice or thrice.

good luck!
 

feralvr

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WOW quite a story, and I just wanted to say that those are gorgeous, gorgeous cats with huge coats. Oh my, I sure hope you can get some assistance with S/N all of these cats. You are doing a wonderful job caring for them and I commend you for caring
 
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jtbo

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Originally Posted by StefanZ

Ah yes, fleas. Of course. This is why many rescuers have the new cats in the bathroom during the quarantine. Not only because many doesnt have spare rooms, but it is simply the most practical: this room is the easiest to clean up...

Count also she has some worms and probably earmites too.

There are good spot on anti flea drops. Sold in the pharmacia /apoteke in sweden, so Im sure they are also sold in Finland.
Frontline is good for mites and fleas, and a new all-round Revolution takes most parasites (there may be some brands, ask at the pharmacia...).

this way, you doesnt need to bathe her. It is enough to come near to drop a drop onto her neck. (of course, be beware from open fire, will you? - they are flammable when heated).
The pharmacia has also other medicines taking in internal worms.

Spot on may be the easiest. Othewise you can take pills, and get them into some nice, smelly food.Say tuna-fish.
Or medicine in fluid form - and get them with the wet food.
See to the cat is a little extra hungry, to be sure she eats although the smell is a little different.

If you take her to the vet, the vet can of course also do it.

Nay, the real difficulty is you must clean up all the rooms she was in, possibly also your whole flat. Probably twice or thrice.

good luck!
Thank you again, I try to look such anti flea stuff from here as I'm now at business trip to bigger town.

I have some pills for getting rid of worms, will put it to her wet food when I get back, I'm sure then she is eating it. She can sometimes still eat bit too little.

Cleaning whole room where she is sounds awful (room is partly used for storage), but what I did read from issue is that I will need to clean really a lot and that sounds horrible, whole downstairs is area that needs thorough cleaning.

I have only one tiny bathroom, using that would be bit problematic even it would be great in cleaning sense, it is bit under 2 meter x 2 meter, contains also shower and water boiler, wc seat and all such things, so it is bit cramped.

I have two rooms at upstairs, separated by wall and door, access to other room is via first room, I have planned to have that other room for cats when they are flea free, so they can have their own large space with privacy and ability to move around with cat door. So in that perspective it would be perhaps good to have vet deal with fleas too and when bringing her back should relocate her to that upstairs room, but will this cause problems as it is again completely new location?

It would just give me time to do proper flea killing at downstairs room. Putting cat back to flea infested room would be silly, imo.
 

StefanZ

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Originally Posted by JTbo

I try to look such anti flea stuff from here as I'm now at business trip to bigger town.

.......... when bringing her back should relocate her to that upstairs room, but will this cause problems as it is again completely new location?

It would just give me time to do proper flea killing at downstairs room. Putting cat back to flea infested room would be silly, imo.
Mind you, buy at the pharmacia /apothece. It should be safe. Look out it is for cats, not for dogs.
Stuff sold at the usual animal-shops is not always safe. We do always warn for such prescibion free stuff made by not reputable firms, sold at animal-shops.

The other question: Change of room. Not perfect with a shy cat, but you may try to take some of her comfort things with. (you must desinfice them of course). Set them outside in the cold. If it is not so cold any longer, set them into the freezer, perhaps.

I realize it is easier to say than to done: if you desinicates, the smell probably changes too....
Try to have as much as possible the same: the same music on, the same food, the same sort of litter. Ah yes. spare some of her used litter and take it to the new place.

Good luck!
 

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Oh what BEAUTIFUL kitties!!!! So wonderful of you to be helping them. You've already gotten wonderful advice, so I won't really add anything. I'm just glad you found us!

...and I had to laugh at this: "It is bit unclear to me how actually I get her to vet, hunting her around the room and grabbing from neck, then put to container does not sound very good, it sounds blood stains guarantee to me, however she is not going to just jump into carrier, she will not do so especially if I'm going to be around." You are SO right - trying to scruff anything other than a wee kitten is pretty much a losing proposition - and even with the kittens, those legs get to whirling and are very dangerous!!

Yes, the humane trap is absolutely the best idea.


Adding my thoughts of good luck!!
 

aprilyim

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You're doing something so wonderful for these cats! Best of luck with everything!
 
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jtbo

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Update.

Little girl has appointment with vet at Saturday (or is it Caturday?
), I found very nice place from bit under hour drive away, it is of course quite long trip for little girl, but other places were not such vets that I considered possible.

Also I have now Feliway too, hopefully it does work. More at evening when I get to home.
 
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