3 ferals at snow

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jtbo

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Had to bring him to different vet as vet I was going told that it would not be possible today even at Saturday everything was ok, so I had to do bit of research on road and found that there were real animal hospital that was bit closer and I phoned them, I was lucky and they had time, everything went well.

176 toy money units (euro) later I have healthy Miuku that was actually boy all along, sometimes it is not what it looks from webcam pic in dark warehouse
Got also Royal Canine Calm food so that they should feel bit better.

I could not get any more information about parasites, they could not say if my thought about it is correct or not, what they did recommend was to use some poison to areas where cat have slept and then cleaning, mostly those should disappear because of Stronghold, so should be nice and easy solution, time will tell how it is.

Miuku was awake already when I did carry him to upstairs, he was looking around and giving his "I'm pissed, leave me be" face, so I covered carrier with blanket.

I will release Miuku bit later so he is fully awake and can eat.

It is quite relieving to have them both now back together, next big stressful thing is giving them another dose of Stronghold in 3 weeks time.

Oh we do have Cat Flu, don't know what it is translated properly either, but they got medicine for that too, I told them to put all that help cat to stay in good health.

When I see mother cat again, I will trap her too, hopefully my budget will allow full set for her too, if I'm not mistaken she might have difficulties to settle in and live with her old kittens after she has come to heat / pregnant again?

Ethology has always interested me, so might get some education about that one, also I don't think that I will teach people rest of my life, might get someday course towards animal care job, but that is big thing, so need to really think about it a lot, but as I am what I am, I can't just watch cats suffer outside, we did put them there, it should be everyone's responsibility to care them, I can do my little part with these three.
 

ldg

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Well I may not know what those names "mean," but they sound beautiful!


And we are TERRIBLE at figuring out which cats are girls and which are boys, unless they're older males. I'm glad it seems "Miuku" still works for boy cat.


I wonder you weren't in a bit of a panic when you found out about the first vet, but I feel VERY happy for both you and Miuku that not only did you find another vet, but they were able to do the surgery!


And yes, that next dose can be hard to do. Especially as those kitties have all that hair.

As to Mauku... she can be spayed when pregnant as Willowy points out. But she would require a bit of introduction at this time anyway. Cats... are not always bonded family. We rescued an 8 week old kitten. 10 days later, we rescued his brother, and we thought they'd be so happy. It didn't work out like that! The existing kitty saw an invader in his territory and a moving target, and they fought a lot at first. They finally worked it all out and did become friends... but it would have been much better if we had made slow "reintroduction" just as if they'd never met before.
 
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jtbo

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I did read how cats do grieve when losing cat they care about, Mauku probably is grieving too now, hopefully she comes back.

These two kittens luckily are bonded very well to each other, it took almost a week to get Mouku together with Miuku in to livingroom, Miuku was really happy to see him and they did hide from me next to each other in a tiny box, now they had only sunday and part of saturday and monday separated, so they are cool, but mother cat, Mauku is of course difficult one.

Mother cat is perhaps most happy as a barn cat, she has grown to full size cat measures during stay in here, when I met her she was not much more than a kitten, probably she had first year of her life when she got pregnant, perhaps that is why she actually came to stay at warehouse and learned to trust me a bit, at good day she did ate from my hand, but she probably would have really hard time to be indoor cat, she has lived outside so much, so I guess it is how she need to live, with proper vet care and spayed of course and surely I will let her come in via cat door when she is ready. However she needs to show herself up first.

Two brothers are exploring their new kindom there, I can hear them making some sounds, jumping and playing, however when I did bring food for them it was like there would not be any cats, so we start from beginning again, week of only delivering food is first, maybe two


I will put one curtain there to help them have their safe area better separated from rest of room, maybe that will help a bit too, already have Feliway there and nice soft cloth on window bench where they can look outside from 2nd floor, that is where Miuku sat after I did open door of carrier, it is funny after I let him out from carrier he had lot more courage than what he has now as now he is staying hidden when I walk in.

However they are not hugely scared as they are now playing around there.
 

ldg

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He may still have had a bit of anesthesia in him when you let him out. Cats that are already socialized tend to become VERY loving when they still have a bit of anesthesia in them. I suspect he had some more courage because of the drugs in him.


A curtain is a good idea! You might want to leave it a few inches off the floor so they can peep out if they want to.
 
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jtbo

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Originally Posted by LDG

He may still have had a bit of anesthesia in him when you let him out. Cats that are already socialized tend to become VERY loving when they still have a bit of anesthesia in them. I suspect he had some more courage because of the drugs in him.


A curtain is a good idea! You might want to leave it a few inches off the floor so they can peep out if they want to.
I believe he has some of drugs in him indeed, he was almost fully without a worries, but walking and moving normally, but now he prefers hiding, surely he must think now that "what on earth I did last night!" or maybe yesterday in his case


Installing one curtain sideways was perfect fit, there is good space between curtain and floor and it cover whole section they are liking to hide in, it is alcove/recess by the translation engine, I have build them some shelves there and hiding places, now with curtain they should be feeling it much more safe place during the days as curtain I used is very thick making place really dark.

They had quite wild night, first night together in that place, so they did have their fun for sure, kept running best part of night and what is best that they have found some apetite, also water is finally disappearing at good space.

I go their place barefooted, so I leave my scent every time I walk there to bring something, toys, food, water.

Maybe at evening I try to stay there bit longer doing my own stuff, they should start to be feeling quite at home by then.

edit: I got an idea, when you introduce new cat to house it is good to introduce him gradually, I did read from method where clothes with newcomer scent is being used and that too is used to introduce human to cats, but how about putting their feeding next to door and be yourself other side of the door, it is used for cats, should it work with introducing human them too?
 

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Originally Posted by JTbo

Mother cat is perhaps most happy as a barn cat, she has grown to full size cat measures during stay in here, when I met her she was not much more than a kitten, probably she had first year of her life when she got pregnant, perhaps that is why she actually came to stay at warehouse and learned to trust me a bit, at good day she did ate from my hand, but she probably would have really hard time to be indoor cat, she has lived outside so much, so I guess it is how she need to live, with proper vet care and spayed of course and surely I will let her come in via cat door when she is ready. However she needs to show herself up first.
I think it is entirely possible to socialize her. She DID bring her kittens to you, for you to help her with them. She DOES look on you with these verry friendly/loving look.
Although the best overall solution may be to let her be your barn cat, especielly as it is very easy to arrange here.
Exactly like you are reasoning.


This your going barefoot into the kids room is surely an excellent idea.

You are a marvel as practicioner!
 
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jtbo

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I did read that one has to think like a cat, so cat goes by it's nose need to do things that let cat know it is me that has delivered food, also it is me who has delivered toy, because cat is nose driven then it is logical to let cat smell my scent as much as possible and as cats don't wear socks, why would I?


Don't know about mother cat, it is bit odd that even nights have been really cold (-18C) she has not been here, but we will see.

It is just too bad that I have some business trips scheduled, so I can't be lookout for her every day.

edit: There is devil if you mention it or something like that, mother cat was on yard stalking birds, so I did open door and called her, she got low and stared to my direction, so I bring her something to eat and meanwhile she had appeared to stairs where I put some food at front of her, cat was hungry. So I went to warehouse and put some fresh water and put heating of box back on, as I did turn it off day after she left to kill parasites in a box if any. She was looking quite normal, but bit suspicious towards me, anyway water in warehouse was going down fast too, let's see if she now stays or if she decides to avoid me, well at least she did come to check me out when I called her.
 
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jtbo

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Love and care of feral cats has it's darker side which is not so often talked about.

They can carry ticks size of so small that you can't see them with a naked eye, but you can feel them quite well, some don't feel at all, some feel very well, I can feel small itch at times, but not very bad.

Cheylietella blakei and Sarcoptei scabiei are those that one can get from cat, those will die without doing anything as they breed only in cat, but there is typer of latter that is human specific.

One can get infected by touching area where cat has slept, fast touch is not yet enough, but if you for example hold your hand 30 seconds where cat has slept it will get into your hand and from your hand to whatever you touch, but it requires bit longer touch to get it.

Here are two bad photos of what I'm getting now to my hands:



Of course these things vary a bit depending from which country you are living in.

Medicine for problem here (and probably in Sweden) is NIX, it does not require visit to doctor, but to get rid of problem faster than in 2-3 weeks it would require much more than just applying NIX.

edit:
Cats are brave ones, I used laptop at sofa, my back was towards where cats were and I did hear them drinking water no more than two meters from where I were, also they did ate a bit of dry food, probably they wanted to check my reactions, I just ignored them. Before I left I gave them bit more food and also some new toys they can play with, they have now also new cat tree, but so far they have been too scared to examine it, but they start to get active around these times so they are soon discovering lot of fun.
I'm sure that it helps that we have played together countless hours before, they probably start to remember that at some point. Spent some two hours with them now, it took more than one hour for them to build up enough courage.

20 minutes is important time for cats, it is that long that it takes cat to settle down, if you bother eating feral, it takes 20 minutes for it to come back and check if disturbance has gone, if cat runs off it takes 20 minutes until it will do checkup of situation, cat will hide in panic, but in 20 minutes it will change hiding place. So when I be with them doing my own stuff I be there more than 20 minutes as anything under 20 minutes and cat is probably thinking that I'm there because of him. Of course I can be wrong in this one, it is only my own observation from these three furballs.
 

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Those look more like a small allergic reaction than mite/bug bites to me. I get those spots whenever I hold my ferret. It doesn't bother me as long as I'm only mildly allergic, but I don't think you need to worry about mites
.
 
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jtbo

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Originally Posted by Willowy

Those look more like a small allergic reaction than mite/bug bites to me. I get those spots whenever I hold my ferret. It doesn't bother me as long as I'm only mildly allergic, but I don't think you need to worry about mites
.
I'm getting those always when I go to downstairs, recently I have been getting them at my section of upstairs too, but in cat room not so much, these are also spreading and I feel mosquito bites every now and then, very long mosquito bites and not very strong, these started to appear when I spent some time downstairs floor trying to get cat used to me, felt something biting really long time to my hand.

I think that it is either one of those tiny mite species as they can give you allergic reaction too, but surely don't know how it is, I got stuff that should get rid of such parasites from my body, so have to wait and see if it does affect, if not then, hmm, I don't know there is nothing new really.

I did read that C.blakei infection shows up like an allergy and many have confused it to cat allergy. I am allergic to cats and many other things, but cat allergy in me is mostly runny nose and eyes itching and watery after scratching.

In my room I have HEPA2 level air purifier machine, which constantly cleans air, it has also active carbon filter, should keep me safe side even with cats.

If I keep long sleeve shirt I get those symptomps only to non covered areas, if I go to livingroom or downstairs without trousers I get symptomps to legs, must be something there.

Slowly it is getting worse actually. Geranioil actually makes issues go away in few minutes, which is bit odd. If this keeps up it will be really difficult week starting next monday


It can be of course allergy, but can't find common thing that would be the cause, I have good streak of not visiting doctor going on, since 2007 I have not visited doctor and I have never been so little sick than after I stopped visiting doctors, surely will not start again now


Bit of mystery if not one of those mites that are not visible to naked eye, it did start at living room, so it must be something there, but living room is now 3 weeks off limits, after that time I go there and check if there is issues or not, then I know for sure as in 3 weeks both of those mites should be lifeless, if issues still continue after that, then there must be something else.
 

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Did I read correctly - Mauku was back??????????????????????????

And I don't know what to say about the mites/bugs/hives... that looks like my allergic reaction to the cats, but I get it ONLY from petting cat or having cat drool on me - they don't appear when I'm not with a cat. I hope you can find a way to get rid of them from you and your home!

And YAY that the kitties came out to eat & drink with you in the room!
Stefan's right - you are great practitioner of working with these lovely animals!
 
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jtbo

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Originally Posted by LDG

Did I read correctly - Mauku was back??????????????????????????

And I don't know what to say about the mites/bugs/hives... that looks like my allergic reaction to the cats, but I get it ONLY from petting cat or having cat drool on me - they don't appear when I'm not with a cat. I hope you can find a way to get rid of them from you and your home!

And YAY that the kitties came out to eat & drink with you in the room!
Stefan's right - you are great practitioner of working with these lovely animals!
She was back, don't know if she left again, I did go to give her some fish, but could not see her there, left fish to bowl, sometime later I saw her quickly walking towards garage and then she diappeared behind the corner, but can't say if she really was just checking her territory, but as she came to visit I think she is sticking here, but she might have some plans which I have other opinion, like getting ton of new kittens, I mean I love kittens, but too much cuteness is too much cuteness and besides I'm not made out of money, surely even that cat would be with lot less trouble if she would not get pregnant again


Miuku is starting to get brave again, he did not hide after I did knock on door, just looked like he would be coming and going at the same time and actually not moving at all. He has such nice character, surely he is bit of maniac, but not kind of that would destroy everything, just very active and curious one. Mouku is curious, but not very active, also Mouku only looks big guy that others might get scared of, he is actually scared of his own shadow, Mouku has not ever showed any kind of ability to self defense, he just freezes.

Oh twice he has put his paw to my finger (before he was captured) but both times he then just walked away, it was long time ago when I did try to get him to accept my hand touching his fur, he could tolerate it tiny bit, Miuku mostly ignored my hand, only some times Miuku swabbed with paw, one time when I tried to be very persistent he touched my hand with teeth, no biting, just quick tap with teeth so I did backed off and we played happily afterwards.

Reason why Miuku is already eating while I'm in room is that he used to eat from my hand, lick my fingers and often used to push my hand away to get food before his brother could get it.

Hopefully we can get soon back to that level, I kind of miss his boldness at feeding time.
 

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You'll get there again.


And as to Mauku... can't hurt to put out the trap when you see her! As was already mentioned, she can be spayed if she's already pregnant.
 
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jtbo

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I did spy them with my little camera, which I put into ventilation tunnel like in some movies


This is Mouku, long haired one, which I trapped last Thursday (6 days ago) and he was neutered last Saturday, I had daytime nap on that sofa 6 hours before I took this video, I think he is doing ok? :

Them brothers are checking out birds (the flying type of birds that is)


Image quality is terrible, but I think you get the idea, boys are doing ok, still hiding from me, but when I did clean litterbox one of them jumped out from his hiding spot and was peeking me from the shadows of their curtain shield, so small progress every day
 

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But look at how comfortable they are in the room!
They look like they're doing just fine!


And Mouku looks SO HAPPY and relaxed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Aw, it's going to be so nice when they realize you are not scary monster that wants to eat them!
 
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It takes some time to get them to point where they are comfortable with me, but they see people driving cars, bicyles and even walking / running frorm window that is upstairs so they get nice high position to look all things going on. Miuku has alredy got it that what is outside can't get to him, Mouku has little more to do in that area, but he is learning from Miuku.

Also Miuku is spying on me when I'm there, so now when I say good bye and close the door he is almost at the instant back on window or playing.

Seems to be quite fast improvements these days.

About two days was time which it took to pee smell did decrease after neutering. So their hormone levels are probably getting to their neutered levels by now.
 
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I set trap for mother cat, don't know if she is going into it. Oh and I'm pretty sure there was other cat too, I did hear noises, it will be really bad if there is other cat and it does enter the trap instead of mother cat.

Also more progress, I gave food for those two at upstairs, when I was leaving Mouku came and look at me with his curious face.

I did again spent over 30 minutes taking little nap on sofa, when I left Mouku was all over the sofa again, then he settled on sofa and took small nap there.

They have been sharing litter box for now, must put both of them two boxes now and also need to get that scratching post from downstairs, they have new cat tree, but I don't know if they are using it, that I need to attach to wall so it will be super solid, that way there is no accidents.

Surely they will have soon lot of extra energy build up, they have been so careful about not to make sounds and they have played quite uninspired so to say, I'm sure they will soon return to their normal rough playing.

Have to leave them for few days next week, they have plenty of toys and enviroment made for cats play in mind, so I think they will be okay, they used to miss me before I captured them, they all came very quickly to very close when I returned and there was lot of cat head in a bowl which I tried to fill up, sometimes paw on my hand if I did not filled fast enough


It is surprisingly big step backwards when they are captured.
 

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Yeah, the big step backwards is because of the new territory.
That just puts everything out of place for them.

If you do trap a different cat, you have two options: just release it, or get it spayed or neutered and then release it. Here they remove the tip of the ear of cats that are going to be released where they were trapped - I know at least in the UK they consider that cruel. But it makes for easy identification when you're dealing with a number of cats.


But once strange cat has gone into the trap, you're not likely to trap it again, making it OK to leave the trap out for mom cat.
 

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This whole story, adventure, journey, whatever you call it is just fascinating to me. I look forward to each new "chapter" every day.

And I think it is just terrific that you are doing this, JTbo, for these beautiful cats.

More pictures, please, when you can get them to pose.


Robin
 

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for trapping mom cat
. This is a great story and you are doing a fantastic job with these cats. It does seem that just when you think you have a handle on how many cats you are caring for outside, another different one shows up. I will never forget last November when I thought I only had two to trap. Two black cats. Well I soon realized that the one short haired cat was really three short haired cats, all black and I just thought I was seeing the same one over and over when it really was three
then there were two long haired blacks. Anyhow, there always seems to be more cats showing up! So many cats
 
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