3 ferals at snow

StefanZ

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sounds good!

Feliway doesnt always works at once. Sometimes you see results first after a week or so.

Felifriend: instant working, here and now.

Feliway: more long-term exposure.

good luck you and this young lady, who soons will be a your ms


 
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jtbo

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I always apply Felifriend to myself, knees and hands (when I get to my knees it will make scent mark), don't know if it has any affect really.

Little girl shows no progress so far, still hides, still destroys about everything that is enough soft to be destroyed, so poor creature is pretty stressed out, she has put some effort to her scratching post too, it is under one month old and already shows some wear, actually it did look new just days ago.

Good thing is that she has energy and strength.

Mother cat and boy cat visited indoors today as I left door open, reward was some really good cat food that they do like, also some treats to boy cat, mother cat does not eat treats, at least not when I'm around, but first time ever she did eat food indoors.

Girl cat needs to be catched friday and she is not allowed to eat at evening, that is what they did instruct.

I have to prepare room for her tomorrow, I'm thinking to put her upstairs after operation, there is wardprobe which I was planning to make her safe spot, from there I can make access to both sides of upstairs, also it is not too large room and it is not near area where I walk, so she could have pretty good privacy and still would be able to see me, which should again help with socialization.

Shedding has started, there is hair everywhere. I put some Felifriend to used underware and then put those on floor of livingroom, I found them containing hunks of cat hair, so she does have some reaction to Felifriend or then to my underware, I know boycat steals my underware and socks if he gets a chance and there is no any Felifriend at my laundry basket.

Oh yes, girl cat has destroyed plastic carpet from living room, in several places, she is helping as I need to remove that carpet, it is from 70's and I really prefer real wood floor. She also tries to shred curtains, room has two windows, but I have put thick curtains on them, also used screws to keep curtains there despite little cats furious attemps to remove them. I think it is not good for her to see outside at this stage too much, I believe that it is best for her to see and hear only one room where she is at, so she can accept it as her territory, after she is comfortable with fact that one room is her territory, then she can have access to window when I'm watching over, so it is taking bit more time.
But at upstairs she might have access to window and I don't know if it is good at all in this stage, when she sees her mother it might get bit too much for her when she can't get to her mother.

Whole cat family hopefully can be together after short time, just need to trap those two other ones and get them spayed/neutered and also flea free.
 

feralvr

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You are doing a great job with these cats!! WOW
. Good luck with getting her to the vet!! And it sounds like she is helping take out that carpeting you want replaced
. Keep us posted!!
 
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jtbo

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Now there is two cats at livingroom, got boy cat to come trough cat door this morning with boiled fish, it did require bit of scaring of him to get him to livingroom as he decided to find few hideouts from kitchen.

Girl cat was really happy to see him, made lot of noises and actually came out from under the bed, even I was around, they are so well connected, that I really need to keep them together, them separated I would probably never got girl cat to come from under the bed.

I need to ask vet if I could bring two of them now, that is of course if I could catch them both tomorrow, also need to catch their mother now, I'm hoping to get her after kittens, there would be then scent of kitten in trap so that might interest her enough to get in, she is trap shy and knows how trap works, to get her into trap is really big challenge, has always been.

Boy was surprisingly calm after he found out there is no exit, even when I did go to his hideout and put my hand near to him he just slowly walked away from there, I did not try touch him, but at one point he did came right next to me when trying to look way out near door, while I was on my knees he did examine door and his tail was in my ankles, seemed not to bother too much, he did prefer to keep distance to me, but he did not hesitate to come near.

Where small girl is not a runner, I think boy might try to run for it quite few times before accepting the fact that 3 locked doors is too much, even for him.

I need probably bolt my curtains even harder to walls.

I have lot of cat hair at upstairs too, even cats have never been in here, cat hair is bit sticky and there is already a lot of it, but now boy cat will shed too more than half of it's fur I presume, that will be huge amount of hair.

Anyway I'm quite happy now as those kittens are safe and I think girl kitten will be lot happier now than she was alone, now she perhaps has courage to approach me at feeding time like she used to do.
 

ldg

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That's great news! Yes, getting the two of them both in traps (or crates) or something will be more difficult... but sounds like they're really happy to be together.


And yes - those cats have a LOT of hair!
 
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jtbo

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Originally Posted by LDG

That's great news! Yes, getting the two of them both in traps (or crates) or something will be more difficult... but sounds like they're really happy to be together.


And yes - those cats have a LOT of hair!
Vet did not have time so I have to deliver them one by one.

Girl cat was on chair when I did enter the room, she did stay there until I moved towards her, which I did because I could not see her in that chair, odd thing, she did go then to hide of course. However she should know by now what it means when I knock the door and when door unlocks, but she decided to stay on chair, maybe she is slowly getting used to situation.

I put some insect stay away product meant for cats to myself, smells really bad, but I do not get bites so much, so far my skin has not fallen off


Lot of fur indeed, I don't need carpet, amount of hair they will shed will do nicely. Reason why there is so much fur is because they are used to live in extremely cold climate, we just recently had 10 days streak of cold where every night we got -35C or colder. Cats did not stay in their warm box, they did run on yard as there was bright moon up there. So they did not shed at all, kept all hair they could grow.

Currently room where they are is around +16C, because I'm afraid that they will get very warm if I put more heat, they are used to much less.

Car trip is something I have never done with a cat, also it will be around 1 hour trip, so that will be quite long for a cat. I'm bit worried about if she needs to 'use bathroom' during the trip, carrying box is not large enough to put litterbox that she could bury anything, can't open the box as she would be very hard to get back there how do you professionals prepare for such?

Somewhere I did read that cat needs to see outside so she would not get car sick, so I think that I put box bit higher and strap it really well.
 

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-35C!
We were fretting for our few days of -15C at night. But yes, they definitely have a lot of fur for that weather! And they'll go through a big transition moving inside.


As to the travel... one hour isn't terrible. Most of our cats only pee several times a day and they poop only once a day.

HOWEVER, one of our kitties gets so scared from traveling in the car that within 10 minutes of leaving, he throws up, pees, and poops (if he's got all that in his system). Because you KNOW the cat is going to be put under anesthesia for the spay or neuter, it's actually best you not give the cat access to any water or food for 8 - 10 hours before you go. Their system should be empty, so peeing or pooping shouldn't be a problem.

If they're going in a trap, it is best to cover the seat with some type of tarp, just in case. We've had feral cats in trap pee out of fear during travel. MUCH easier to clean if there's plastic down!!

And actually we find the best thing to do while traveling is actually cover the carrier or trap with a light blanket, leaving only one end open. NOT being able to see anything seems to be more calming for them. Having some fresh air is important (thus leaving one end uncovered), so even in winter we make sure to have a window open a little bit at least some of the time. Don't want a lot of cold air or a big cold wind in the car, but some fresh air is good.

If in a crate, for our scared cat we line it with paper towels so they can just be thrown away. If there were two people traveling, I'd say try to get the soiled towels out of the crate if an accident happens near the beginning of the trip... (we bring a garbage bag in which to throw the soiled paper towels), but as the cat will be undergoing anesthesia, the vet can clean the cat up when it's been anesthetized. It's not nice for kitty to have to be soiled, but it's much better for kitty to be safe, and you know for sure kitty can be cleaned before coming back home.
 
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jtbo

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Thank you from tips LDG


I did read last night also that some use diapers at bottom of carrier, which I think is great as those are designed for the job and I think those are rather soft, however I don't know how much there is left after the trip, so better bring some extra.

She is showing bit less of fear now, last three visits there she has not been under the bed, more of examining surroundings and then after looking me for a moment she slowly goes under the bed, once she stopped several times looking what I was upto, but decided to go under the bed.

Still haven't seen boy cat, probably will see him if girl cat does not go to trap during next night, then it is needed to get her with some other method, fishing accessories needed there


Those seem to eat really about nothing, sure I can see food disappearing but it is really small amounts compared to what is was before, they did eat hunk of meat size of fist each in a day, now they are eating no more than as much as size of finger. They have Royal Canine 36 kitten food which they eat mostly, pretty much ignores other stuff I bring.

Could be that my dark room has been too bright as there was reading lamp on, it did illuminate mostly one corner of room, but now as I put night light meant for kids there, there was change to more courage in behaviour of girl.

Mother cat I did not see last nights feeding and not at morning feeding, did saw his at evening though and she came near for food then. Still she can be at her box, she is not always coming out for food, if she has got mice or two she is not so hungry at feeding time and she kind of trusts me that I don't try anything sneaky when she is in a box.
Sometimes she is in garage building too.

Bit in hurry with preparing cat room, which I found is bigger than room where I spend most of my time, have to have priorities right


edit: Mother cat has not been at warehouse or at yard today, she has not been eating her food either, so I guess she has gone, or then she is at other building where is garage and wood storage etc. However usually even if she is at other building she comes to eat during a day.
Her absent worries me a bit, but I guess that as both of her kittens are now disappeared from her sight she probably moved on thinking I ate her kittens or something like that. Of course it can be just that she is looking kittens from some other locations.

Boy and girl cat found new place to hide, in a box under the sofa, very little space, very much of hair at hole where they go in and out, pulled box out and there was two furballs indeed, boy cat was under 10cm of me and did not run off, but was really scared I think, pushed box back with kittens inside, they kept being there.
 

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Diapers are a great idea!

Oh I hope mom comes back.
If you keep putting the food out, at least she'll have the reason to. I don't know how old the kittens are, but at about 3 months old, mom usually pushes them away to become independent anyway. Not always, but usually. Most of our feral cats come and go. We have a "core" group of about five or so that are here every day for food, but the others seem to come for a few days, go for a few days... like that.

Vibes for momma!
 
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jtbo

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Originally Posted by LDG

Diapers are a great idea!

Oh I hope mom comes back.
If you keep putting the food out, at least she'll have the reason to. I don't know how old the kittens are, but at about 3 months old, mom usually pushes them away to become independent anyway. Not always, but usually. Most of our feral cats come and go. We have a "core" group of about five or so that are here every day for food, but the others seem to come for a few days, go for a few days... like that.

Vibes for momma!
I hope, but I have to accept if she does not come back.

Kittens are about 7 months old, because cruel winters ( This year from november 10th to march 1st temperature was below freezing levels, coldest temperature was -37C, plenty of -35C nights ) around here ferals stick together during winter, now spring is pushing winter away and probably she thought that she could go on as her own as there are no more kittens around, but clearly she has now left this area, no new paw prints on snow.

Just came back from vet, little girl did not go to trap, also I could get her once to carrier and door closed, but could not lock the door before she rammed towards door so hard that I could not hold it and off she ran, I believe that I did try bit too much, she squeezed herself between window and curtain that is screwed on place, there she growled and hissed and refused to move so I thought it was better just take a brake.

While on brake boy cat walked into trap and so I thought that what the heck, he is in trap so why not to get him done first and off we did go.

Car trip took 1 hour and 42 minutes (we have bad roads and I did go slowly so he could be perhaps tiny amount less stressed), during the trip he did not make any sounds, he did not even moved, I had trap covered, but I found him same position after the trip. When he was trapped he did try once to go trough end wall, but otherwise he was too scared to move. Immediately when I found him from the trap I put old towel to cover the trap, probably that too helped a bit.

So there were ear mites, some other things which vet forgot to tell what they were, also his huge fur was a mess so needed to get haircut to him, he got all vaccines, microchip and care plan, also bag of free food and tray for food, plate, cup, what is it where from cat eats?
Oh and of course he was operated too.

Now I'm bit two minds about letting him roam freely as he wakes up as vet told that he will go berserk when he wakes up, maybe it would be safest to let him wake up in a carrier and after he has got himself at normal state, then let him out. Can't give him food or water either for as long as he is recovering from sleep.

I will let him out of course after he has woken up fully, but don't know if it would be better for him to wake up as free. I'm thinking that releasing him from confined space would server also socializing purpose or then not, yeah, I'm between the two now


Girl cat had moved to chair, she is still very very pissed at me, but is not hiding any more, hissed at me when I changed volume of radio a bit, it is next to her there, but I just turned my back to her and walked away, showing absolutely no interest to her, oh I did say bye bye when I left and locked the door. I will set trap for her tomorrow, so that I can get her done as quickly as possible, she did not see boy cat going to trap and being carried away, so I don't think she will be trap shy.

Boy cat did not need even a bait, just placed trap next to bed that was tipped to it's side, then put mattress( Thing between sheet and bed ?) so it made nice cave and trap was in that cave, so it is only natural for cat to go into it.

edit: He is alive, at least he uses litter box and is disappeared from the carrier unit, old tick tock clock is keeping company to him and I guess he is either under the sofa or in hideout I made for him, where ever he is, I let him be there as I don't need to see in 4 weeks, then he would need new treatment for fleas. Poor thing must feel now quite miserable, ears will hurt, fur is gone, also there is something missing, would gladly give him some company, but it would not serve any good.

edit2: Got girl cat to trap, she went in while I was getting bait which I would put there, but most important is that she is now secured, was lot faster than I thought. She needs to be taken vet at Monday as it is not open at Sundays, it is long time in a trap, need to figure out how to give her water while she is in there, she would be ok if no water after evening, but it is going to be 36 hours without water if I don't give it at all and that is too long.

I don't know how badly messed her head is going to be after all this, I'm bit afraid that she will never play with me again, she is so pissed with me now, but I hope she will forgive eventually.
 
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jtbo

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I did not know that cat could growl at same time while eating boiled fish from the spoon at incredible speed, almost ate the spoon too


Girl cat has such a long wait, so I fed her with boiled fish as it has lot of water in it, she does not like from me, but she likes me bringing fish, that is how I read her messages.

Need to feed her yet at evening, cleaning will be bit difficult, but can't be helped, it is not possible to get her into carrier safely so I have to keep her in a trap, feels quite bad actually to keep her at isolation and in a trap until tomorrow.

Girl cat is bit more alive one, had to use metal wire to make sure trap door stays shut, hisses and growls at me even does not see out from trap, hearing is enough, still eats from spoon.
 

StefanZ

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Boy doing all right, I presume? Awake now and so?

We want reports!
 
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jtbo

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Originally Posted by StefanZ

Boy doing all right, I presume? Awake now and so?

We want reports!
He is awake and hiding, has used litter box, but has not eaten much if at all, has drank very little water, I did boil some fish to him and put next to his hideout, but no, did not come to eat, so I put it now to his hideout, if he would be brave and eat a bit. He did choose hideout next to tick tock clock, so I guess he likes from that one.

He did explore escaping possibilities last night, also he was bit vocal, sad meow now and then, but as sun did rise he has been hiding.

There is window in the room and there is window bench, under window bench is heater, I believe it should be spot where cats would like to sit as room is at 2nd floor they have impression of watching everything above, when he starts to get more confident about his surroundings, I'm sure he starts to like the place. I did see only small glimpse of his face when I did deliver food to his hideout, otherwise I have not seen him at all.
He was without food long time before going to vet and since vet visit he has not eaten, well if not amount of average spoon so I could not really tell if he has eaten or not, it starts to be bit long time without eating, but I guess stressed cat does not eat so well.

Can't take Feliway upstairs yet as downstairs girl cat is in a trap, so she needs all the relaxants she can get.

edit: Thought that I would put here pic of cat house which cats did sleep during the winter, 50mm thick insulation foam, glued together with expanding foam, cruel but did work ok, inside is pillow warmer providing sufficient temperatures during really cold weather:
 

StefanZ

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Ah, he has this double combination of hurting between his legs - AND a new surrounding, new smells, and no sis nor momma...

And you have difficult to fetch to him somethins which smells sis - it can be infested with fleas...

It can be helped. He must go through it as it is. Without any sweeters...


Him not eating is not so bad as it sounds. No eating is dangerous for fat cats. He is at good body measures, but surely not overweight.

He will come around, unless he has maximal unluck.
ALL of us can be struck with maximal unluck...



Good luck, you and your cats!


The cat-emergency house is beatiful.
A little crude as you say, but apparently functioning superbt!
 
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jtbo

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Boy cat has also missing quite huge amount of fur and his ears are probably bit sore as there were lot of ear mites and those were removed. It is however incredible how fast cats do heal.

Anyway boy cat must feel like something had driven over him and then stabbed by aliens who abducted him to some other planet, now I'm pretty sure I would have wing down for a while because of that.

I really don't know if parasites are fleas, whatever they are I don't see them, I got similar spots as mosquite bites and I feel like mosquite bite every now and then after I have been on floor of room where cat first were and where girl cat still is. I get easily 10 or more of those spots, they are not much iching and they disappear less than 5 minutes.

With glasses I can easily see 1mm size objects, but I don't really see anything, it starts to get out of hand as problem is also in other rooms at downstairs now, or maybe it is just psychological. Problem is that can't see anything, spend today more than 10 minutes looking my hand, spots came and go, but did not see any other change, nothing moving, no odd dots etc.

I thought that you would see fleas?

Having long sleeve helps, then other side of palm gets spots and mosquito bite feelings.

It is like description of the flea, they must jump from ground or other surfaces, girl cat is covered by a cloth, when I lifted it and fed girl cat I got nearly 20 of those spots/bumps to hand which I lifted cloth and which hand was on ground as needed some support when giving her fish with spoon.

Clearly this issue came with the cats, so it is some parasite that they have. Should ask vet to indentify parasites she can find when I go there tomorrow.

Anyway what it is that has infested cats does cause lot of issues as I need to take out most of the cloths at subzero temperature and again when going back to downstears need to put back on those subzero temp clothes, so that I would not bring issues with me to upstairs, however it can be bit futile and only solution is probably poisoning, Stronghold (I believe it is Revolution in US) surely keeps cats free of parasites, but it does not help me if parasites can stay alive with human blood too.

Well, good thing is that girl cat does not growl at me anymore after eating that fish, surely she is not happy, but at least was not growling, so she got cat treat from such nice behaviour.

edit: I believe that I found canditate for iching problem (don't look pic if monsters scare you, they do scare me):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheyletiella

That matches by symptomps perhaps the best, also would explain why I can't see them. I did read that symptomps last 3 weeks, quite annoying, but there is not much that can be done. So After tomorrow I seal livingroom and in 10 days time those will be gone, cats are probably protected by Stronghold so new ones are not being born after tomorrow and in 3 weeks all that are bothering me should be gone.

Must remember to ask vet to check if she can find those from cats, so I could be sure.

edit2: Boy cat is really really scared, not been using his sandbox, has taken tiny sip of water and tiny piece of fish I brought for him, he had also changed hideout, he had squeezed into pile of mattresses that is stored in metal cage there, I could see base of his tail there, I need to get feliway there right at the morning, girl cat has stopped growling also refused to eat anything now, left her with two pieces of fish and spoon of fish boiling water, so she can sip it in privacy when she feels like it. She has shred almost every padding she had there with her, so she is now almost sitting on wires and it is quite impossible to add anything there for her comfort, I really hope that it would be morning already.

Ice gel helps greatly with urge of scrathing, all scratching relief products rely on same principle AFAIK, they cool off that itchy spot, but you can get a ton of ice gel with price of scratch relief tube.

Another tip, if someone tries to sell you Biospotix natural flea control, you are better off with Bugband insect repellant or any other insect repellant based on Geranioil as that is what Biospotix contains + 25% of distilled water, of course it works as well/bad as insect repellant and is really only nuisance for your cat when pest is heatseeking or CO2 seeking type.
So best is to buy from vet as there is actually some science behind it and in theory stuff should actually work. If getting same stuff cheaper somewhere then why not buy there, but need to know product name and how much there is acting stuff, there are vet and non vet versions from many stuff and vet gets always the strong stuff.

In old west there were all kind of miracle liquid sellers, some put hair back to bald, some made crippled to walk, it is really amazing what they sell these days and how boldly some claim their product will do those miracles even when basic google search shows their cards plain and clear.

Surely Geranioil is quite good scent masker, but is it scent that needs to be masked?

From http://www.ehow.com/how-does_4672816_flea-host.html
Stimulation can come from the physical pressure of being stepped on; an animal exhaling carbon dioxide; vibration from walking or vacuuming; or the heat generated by possible hosts or your heating system.
Now which one of those masking scent does help? Even as mosquito repellant Geranimoil is questionable, mosquitos seek their victims by heat and CO2, so actually ice gel will work better there too as it lowers skin's surface temperature, isn't science wonderful thing?


Stronghold/Revolution works completely different way, those go to bloodstream of a cat and then parasites suck it from blood and meet their maker.
 

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I've never heard of those parasites before... ????? Yes, do ask the vet! Hopefully the Stronghold will work for that. You should also ask how to rid them from your home. I know fleas can be a real problem - easy to get them off the cat, but not so easy to get the eggs out of the furniture and floors!

I guess I haven't seen this thread as recently as I thought I did, I completely missed your getting boy cat to the vet!
Many do not feel like eating after the surgery, and it can take a day or two. Good he's had a little bit. It can be dangerous for cats to go more than two days without eating anything. How is he doing now? And he WILL forgive you!

And even better news girl cat went in the trap! I can only imagine how stressful it's been for you that it was so much before Monday, but it sounds like you're doing the best thing you can, and really, this is best for her!

Good luck tomorrow, I hope all goes well!

They'll both be SO happy to be back to familiar space and with each other.


So.... will you be naming them at any point?
 
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jtbo

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Luckily that parasite is one of the easiest, also often it does not bother cats at all, but almost all of them have it, it is just not great in numbers unless there are stress or illness.

When parasite is great in numbers then it can get to human too, but it really is easy one as it dies in 10 days without host, in 21 days it dies if host is not sufficient and what I have read Stronghold has got rid of those in cats.

We have bit different parasites here than in US, for example we don't have much of flea problem. We have cat plague, but we don't have much of FeIV or FIV as far as I know, mites are more common than anything else, even this parasite in question is kind of mite.

Ear mite is most common that is Otodectes cynotis

This what I suspect is then Dandruff mite by google translate, which is Cheylietella blakei, dog has it's own Cheylietella which also bites humans too, other Cheylietella do not bite humans.

Cats actually do have names, those are just bit of weird ones


Boy cat I call Mouku and girl cat I call Miuku, mother cat is Mauku, but don't know if I see her again, but I hope that I do.

Names are actually silly interpretations of different cat meows, but as we type meows differently in different languages, those probably don't make much sense for english language and I don't know them at english.

But that aside, names they have


Now I have to check if girl cat (Miuku) still is in a trap, or has she broken trap during the night and also need to fill water bowl of boy cat (Mouku), probably he has still not eaten a lot.
 

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Originally Posted by JTbo

We have cat plague
So do we in Sweden. It is called for distemper in USA - and other english language native countries I presume.

I agree with you Felv seems not to be as much spoken of here, although it does occur. FIV is called here for FIP I think - both the dry and the wet version - everyone talks about it but luckily it seldom bursts out... Burr...
 

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Originally Posted by StefanZ

I agree with you Felv seems not to be as much spoken of here, although it does occur. FIV is called here for FIP I think - both the dry and the wet version - everyone talks about it but luckily it seldom bursts out... Burr...
FIV and FIP are not the same, as there is no "dry" vs "wet" version of FIV. . .FIV is closer to FeLV but not as easily transmitted. If you don't have much FeLV probably FIV is rare as well. Lucky you!

Glad to hear everything is going well with the kitties. The mother cat is quite likely out meeting some toms and getting pregnant again. . .at least around here (and I think we have similar weather) March is the month most cats get pregnant. She'll be back; females rarely leave their established homes for long. If you catch her right away when she comes back, the pregnancy will not be far along and the vet shouldn't have a problem spaying her.

It's good of you to take such care of these kitties. They're very lucky to have wandered in to the right warehouse!
 
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