3 ferals at snow - Page 2

I hope, but I have to accept if she does not come back.

Kittens are about 7 months old, because cruel winters ( This year from november 10th to march 1st temperature was below freezing levels, coldest temperature was -37C, plenty of -35C nights ) around here ferals stick together during winter, now spring is pushing winter away and probably she thought that she could go on as her own as there are no more kittens around, but clearly she has now left this area, no new paw prints on snow.

Just came back from vet, little girl did not go to trap, also I could get her once to carrier and door closed, but could not lock the door before she rammed towards door so hard that I could not hold it and off she ran, I believe that I did try bit too much, she squeezed herself between window and curtain that is screwed on place, there she growled and hissed and refused to move so I thought it was better just take a brake.

While on brake boy cat walked into trap and so I thought that what the heck, he is in trap so why not to get him done first and off we did go.

Car trip took 1 hour and 42 minutes (we have bad roads and I did go slowly so he could be perhaps tiny amount less stressed), during the trip he did not make any sounds, he did not even moved, I had trap covered, but I found him same position after the trip. When he was trapped he did try once to go trough end wall, but otherwise he was too scared to move. Immediately when I found him from the trap I put old towel to cover the trap, probably that too helped a bit.

So there were ear mites, some other things which vet forgot to tell what they were, also his huge fur was a mess so needed to get haircut to him, he got all vaccines, microchip and care plan, also bag of free food and tray for food, plate, cup, what is it where from cat eats?
Oh and of course he was operated too.

Now I'm bit two minds about letting him roam freely as he wakes up as vet told that he will go berserk when he wakes up, maybe it would be safest to let him wake up in a carrier and after he has got himself at normal state, then let him out. Can't give him food or water either for as long as he is recovering from sleep.

I will let him out of course after he has woken up fully, but don't know if it would be better for him to wake up as free. I'm thinking that releasing him from confined space would server also socializing purpose or then not, yeah, I'm between the two now

Girl cat had moved to chair, she is still very very pissed at me, but is not hiding any more, hissed at me when I changed volume of radio a bit, it is next to her there, but I just turned my back to her and walked away, showing absolutely no interest to her, oh I did say bye bye when I left and locked the door. I will set trap for her tomorrow, so that I can get her done as quickly as possible, she did not see boy cat going to trap and being carried away, so I don't think she will be trap shy.

Boy cat did not need even a bait, just placed trap next to bed that was tipped to it's side, then put mattress( Thing between sheet and bed ?) so it made nice cave and trap was in that cave, so it is only natural for cat to go into it.

edit: He is alive, at least he uses litter box and is disappeared from the carrier unit, old tick tock clock is keeping company to him and I guess he is either under the sofa or in hideout I made for him, where ever he is, I let him be there as I don't need to see in 4 weeks, then he would need new treatment for fleas. Poor thing must feel now quite miserable, ears will hurt, fur is gone, also there is something missing, would gladly give him some company, but it would not serve any good.

edit2: Got girl cat to trap, she went in while I was getting bait which I would put there, but most important is that she is now secured, was lot faster than I thought. She needs to be taken vet at Monday as it is not open at Sundays, it is long time in a trap, need to figure out how to give her water while she is in there, she would be ok if no water after evening, but it is going to be 36 hours without water if I don't give it at all and that is too long.

I don't know how badly messed her head is going to be after all this, I'm bit afraid that she will never play with me again, she is so pissed with me now, but I hope she will forgive eventually.

I did not know that cat could growl at same time while eating boiled fish from the spoon at incredible speed, almost ate the spoon too

Girl cat has such a long wait, so I fed her with boiled fish as it has lot of water in it, she does not like from me, but she likes me bringing fish, that is how I read her messages.

Need to feed her yet at evening, cleaning will be bit difficult, but can't be helped, it is not possible to get her into carrier safely so I have to keep her in a trap, feels quite bad actually to keep her at isolation and in a trap until tomorrow.

Girl cat is bit more alive one, had to use metal wire to make sure trap door stays shut, hisses and growls at me even does not see out from trap, hearing is enough, still eats from spoon.

He is awake and hiding, has used litter box, but has not eaten much if at all, has drank very little water, I did boil some fish to him and put next to his hideout, but no, did not come to eat, so I put it now to his hideout, if he would be brave and eat a bit. He did choose hideout next to tick tock clock, so I guess he likes from that one.

He did explore escaping possibilities last night, also he was bit vocal, sad meow now and then, but as sun did rise he has been hiding.

There is window in the room and there is window bench, under window bench is heater, I believe it should be spot where cats would like to sit as room is at 2nd floor they have impression of watching everything above, when he starts to get more confident about his surroundings, I'm sure he starts to like the place. I did see only small glimpse of his face when I did deliver food to his hideout, otherwise I have not seen him at all.
He was without food long time before going to vet and since vet visit he has not eaten, well if not amount of average spoon so I could not really tell if he has eaten or not, it starts to be bit long time without eating, but I guess stressed cat does not eat so well.

Can't take Feliway upstairs yet as downstairs girl cat is in a trap, so she needs all the relaxants she can get.

edit: Thought that I would put here pic of cat house which cats did sleep during the winter, 50mm thick insulation foam, glued together with expanding foam, cruel but did work ok, inside is pillow warmer providing sufficient temperatures during really cold weather:

Boy cat has also missing quite huge amount of fur and his ears are probably bit sore as there were lot of ear mites and those were removed. It is however incredible how fast cats do heal.

Anyway boy cat must feel like something had driven over him and then stabbed by aliens who abducted him to some other planet, now I'm pretty sure I would have wing down for a while because of that.

I really don't know if parasites are fleas, whatever they are I don't see them, I got similar spots as mosquite bites and I feel like mosquite bite every now and then after I have been on floor of room where cat first were and where girl cat still is. I get easily 10 or more of those spots, they are not much iching and they disappear less than 5 minutes.

With glasses I can easily see 1mm size objects, but I don't really see anything, it starts to get out of hand as problem is also in other rooms at downstairs now, or maybe it is just psychological. Problem is that can't see anything, spend today more than 10 minutes looking my hand, spots came and go, but did not see any other change, nothing moving, no odd dots etc.

I thought that you would see fleas?

Having long sleeve helps, then other side of palm gets spots and mosquito bite feelings.

It is like description of the flea, they must jump from ground or other surfaces, girl cat is covered by a cloth, when I lifted it and fed girl cat I got nearly 20 of those spots/bumps to hand which I lifted cloth and which hand was on ground as needed some support when giving her fish with spoon.

Clearly this issue came with the cats, so it is some parasite that they have. Should ask vet to indentify parasites she can find when I go there tomorrow.

Anyway what it is that has infested cats does cause lot of issues as I need to take out most of the cloths at subzero temperature and again when going back to downstears need to put back on those subzero temp clothes, so that I would not bring issues with me to upstairs, however it can be bit futile and only solution is probably poisoning, Stronghold (I believe it is Revolution in US) surely keeps cats free of parasites, but it does not help me if parasites can stay alive with human blood too.

Well, good thing is that girl cat does not growl at me anymore after eating that fish, surely she is not happy, but at least was not growling, so she got cat treat from such nice behaviour.

edit: I believe that I found canditate for iching problem (don't look pic if monsters scare you, they do scare me):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheyletiella

That matches by symptomps perhaps the best, also would explain why I can't see them. I did read that symptomps last 3 weeks, quite annoying, but there is not much that can be done. So After tomorrow I seal livingroom and in 10 days time those will be gone, cats are probably protected by Stronghold so new ones are not being born after tomorrow and in 3 weeks all that are bothering me should be gone.

Must remember to ask vet to check if she can find those from cats, so I could be sure.

edit2: Boy cat is really really scared, not been using his sandbox, has taken tiny sip of water and tiny piece of fish I brought for him, he had also changed hideout, he had squeezed into pile of mattresses that is stored in metal cage there, I could see base of his tail there, I need to get feliway there right at the morning, girl cat has stopped growling also refused to eat anything now, left her with two pieces of fish and spoon of fish boiling water, so she can sip it in privacy when she feels like it. She has shred almost every padding she had there with her, so she is now almost sitting on wires and it is quite impossible to add anything there for her comfort, I really hope that it would be morning already.

Ice gel helps greatly with urge of scrathing, all scratching relief products rely on same principle AFAIK, they cool off that itchy spot, but you can get a ton of ice gel with price of scratch relief tube.

Another tip, if someone tries to sell you Biospotix natural flea control, you are better off with Bugband insect repellant or any other insect repellant based on Geranioil as that is what Biospotix contains + 25% of distilled water, of course it works as well/bad as insect repellant and is really only nuisance for your cat when pest is heatseeking or CO2 seeking type.
So best is to buy from vet as there is actually some science behind it and in theory stuff should actually work. If getting same stuff cheaper somewhere then why not buy there, but need to know product name and how much there is acting stuff, there are vet and non vet versions from many stuff and vet gets always the strong stuff.

In old west there were all kind of miracle liquid sellers, some put hair back to bald, some made crippled to walk, it is really amazing what they sell these days and how boldly some claim their product will do those miracles even when basic google search shows their cards plain and clear.

Surely Geranioil is quite good scent masker, but is it scent that needs to be masked?

From http://www.ehow.com/how-does_4672816_flea-host.html
Now which one of those masking scent does help? Even as mosquito repellant Geranimoil is questionable, mosquitos seek their victims by heat and CO2, so actually ice gel will work better there too as it lowers skin's surface temperature, isn't science wonderful thing?

Stronghold/Revolution works completely different way, those go to bloodstream of a cat and then parasites suck it from blood and meet their maker.

Luckily that parasite is one of the easiest, also often it does not bother cats at all, but almost all of them have it, it is just not great in numbers unless there are stress or illness.

When parasite is great in numbers then it can get to human too, but it really is easy one as it dies in 10 days without host, in 21 days it dies if host is not sufficient and what I have read Stronghold has got rid of those in cats.

We have bit different parasites here than in US, for example we don't have much of flea problem. We have cat plague, but we don't have much of FeIV or FIV as far as I know, mites are more common than anything else, even this parasite in question is kind of mite.

Ear mite is most common that is Otodectes cynotis

This what I suspect is then Dandruff mite by google translate, which is Cheylietella blakei, dog has it's own Cheylietella which also bites humans too, other Cheylietella do not bite humans.

Cats actually do have names, those are just bit of weird ones

Boy cat I call Mouku and girl cat I call Miuku, mother cat is Mauku, but don't know if I see her again, but I hope that I do.

Names are actually silly interpretations of different cat meows, but as we type meows differently in different languages, those probably don't make much sense for english language and I don't know them at english.

But that aside, names they have

Now I have to check if girl cat (Miuku) still is in a trap, or has she broken trap during the night and also need to fill water bowl of boy cat (Mouku), probably he has still not eaten a lot.

Had to bring him to different vet as vet I was going told that it would not be possible today even at Saturday everything was ok, so I had to do bit of research on road and found that there were real animal hospital that was bit closer and I phoned them, I was lucky and they had time, everything went well.

176 toy money units (euro) later I have healthy Miuku that was actually boy all along, sometimes it is not what it looks from webcam pic in dark warehouse Got also Royal Canine Calm food so that they should feel bit better.

I could not get any more information about parasites, they could not say if my thought about it is correct or not, what they did recommend was to use some poison to areas where cat have slept and then cleaning, mostly those should disappear because of Stronghold, so should be nice and easy solution, time will tell how it is.

Miuku was awake already when I did carry him to upstairs, he was looking around and giving his "I'm pissed, leave me be" face, so I covered carrier with blanket.

I will release Miuku bit later so he is fully awake and can eat.

It is quite relieving to have them both now back together, next big stressful thing is giving them another dose of Stronghold in 3 weeks time.

Oh we do have Cat Flu, don't know what it is translated properly either, but they got medicine for that too, I told them to put all that help cat to stay in good health.

When I see mother cat again, I will trap her too, hopefully my budget will allow full set for her too, if I'm not mistaken she might have difficulties to settle in and live with her old kittens after she has come to heat / pregnant again?

Ethology has always interested me, so might get some education about that one, also I don't think that I will teach people rest of my life, might get someday course towards animal care job, but that is big thing, so need to really think about it a lot, but as I am what I am, I can't just watch cats suffer outside, we did put them there, it should be everyone's responsibility to care them, I can do my little part with these three.

I did read how cats do grieve when losing cat they care about, Mauku probably is grieving too now, hopefully she comes back.

These two kittens luckily are bonded very well to each other, it took almost a week to get Mouku together with Miuku in to livingroom, Miuku was really happy to see him and they did hide from me next to each other in a tiny box, now they had only sunday and part of saturday and monday separated, so they are cool, but mother cat, Mauku is of course difficult one.

Mother cat is perhaps most happy as a barn cat, she has grown to full size cat measures during stay in here, when I met her she was not much more than a kitten, probably she had first year of her life when she got pregnant, perhaps that is why she actually came to stay at warehouse and learned to trust me a bit, at good day she did ate from my hand, but she probably would have really hard time to be indoor cat, she has lived outside so much, so I guess it is how she need to live, with proper vet care and spayed of course and surely I will let her come in via cat door when she is ready. However she needs to show herself up first.

Two brothers are exploring their new kindom there, I can hear them making some sounds, jumping and playing, however when I did bring food for them it was like there would not be any cats, so we start from beginning again, week of only delivering food is first, maybe two

I will put one curtain there to help them have their safe area better separated from rest of room, maybe that will help a bit too, already have Feliway there and nice soft cloth on window bench where they can look outside from 2nd floor, that is where Miuku sat after I did open door of carrier, it is funny after I let him out from carrier he had lot more courage than what he has now as now he is staying hidden when I walk in.

However they are not hugely scared as they are now playing around there.

I believe he has some of drugs in him indeed, he was almost fully without a worries, but walking and moving normally, but now he prefers hiding, surely he must think now that "what on earth I did last night!" or maybe yesterday in his case

Installing one curtain sideways was perfect fit, there is good space between curtain and floor and it cover whole section they are liking to hide in, it is alcove/recess by the translation engine, I have build them some shelves there and hiding places, now with curtain they should be feeling it much more safe place during the days as curtain I used is very thick making place really dark.

They had quite wild night, first night together in that place, so they did have their fun for sure, kept running best part of night and what is best that they have found some apetite, also water is finally disappearing at good space.

I go their place barefooted, so I leave my scent every time I walk there to bring something, toys, food, water.

Maybe at evening I try to stay there bit longer doing my own stuff, they should start to be feeling quite at home by then.

edit: I got an idea, when you introduce new cat to house it is good to introduce him gradually, I did read from method where clothes with newcomer scent is being used and that too is used to introduce human to cats, but how about putting their feeding next to door and be yourself other side of the door, it is used for cats, should it work with introducing human them too?

I did read that one has to think like a cat, so cat goes by it's nose need to do things that let cat know it is me that has delivered food, also it is me who has delivered toy, because cat is nose driven then it is logical to let cat smell my scent as much as possible and as cats don't wear socks, why would I?

Don't know about mother cat, it is bit odd that even nights have been really cold (-18C) she has not been here, but we will see.

It is just too bad that I have some business trips scheduled, so I can't be lookout for her every day.

edit: There is devil if you mention it or something like that, mother cat was on yard stalking birds, so I did open door and called her, she got low and stared to my direction, so I bring her something to eat and meanwhile she had appeared to stairs where I put some food at front of her, cat was hungry. So I went to warehouse and put some fresh water and put heating of box back on, as I did turn it off day after she left to kill parasites in a box if any. She was looking quite normal, but bit suspicious towards me, anyway water in warehouse was going down fast too, let's see if she now stays or if she decides to avoid me, well at least she did come to check me out when I called her.

Love and care of feral cats has it's darker side which is not so often talked about.

They can carry ticks size of so small that you can't see them with a naked eye, but you can feel them quite well, some don't feel at all, some feel very well, I can feel small itch at times, but not very bad.

Cheylietella blakei and Sarcoptei scabiei are those that one can get from cat, those will die without doing anything as they breed only in cat, but there is typer of latter that is human specific.

One can get infected by touching area where cat has slept, fast touch is not yet enough, but if you for example hold your hand 30 seconds where cat has slept it will get into your hand and from your hand to whatever you touch, but it requires bit longer touch to get it.

Here are two bad photos of what I'm getting now to my hands:



Of course these things vary a bit depending from which country you are living in.

Medicine for problem here (and probably in Sweden) is NIX, it does not require visit to doctor, but to get rid of problem faster than in 2-3 weeks it would require much more than just applying NIX.

edit:
Cats are brave ones, I used laptop at sofa, my back was towards where cats were and I did hear them drinking water no more than two meters from where I were, also they did ate a bit of dry food, probably they wanted to check my reactions, I just ignored them. Before I left I gave them bit more food and also some new toys they can play with, they have now also new cat tree, but so far they have been too scared to examine it, but they start to get active around these times so they are soon discovering lot of fun.
I'm sure that it helps that we have played together countless hours before, they probably start to remember that at some point. Spent some two hours with them now, it took more than one hour for them to build up enough courage.

20 minutes is important time for cats, it is that long that it takes cat to settle down, if you bother eating feral, it takes 20 minutes for it to come back and check if disturbance has gone, if cat runs off it takes 20 minutes until it will do checkup of situation, cat will hide in panic, but in 20 minutes it will change hiding place. So when I be with them doing my own stuff I be there more than 20 minutes as anything under 20 minutes and cat is probably thinking that I'm there because of him. Of course I can be wrong in this one, it is only my own observation from these three furballs.

I'm getting those always when I go to downstairs, recently I have been getting them at my section of upstairs too, but in cat room not so much, these are also spreading and I feel mosquito bites every now and then, very long mosquito bites and not very strong, these started to appear when I spent some time downstairs floor trying to get cat used to me, felt something biting really long time to my hand.

I think that it is either one of those tiny mite species as they can give you allergic reaction too, but surely don't know how it is, I got stuff that should get rid of such parasites from my body, so have to wait and see if it does affect, if not then, hmm, I don't know there is nothing new really.

I did read that C.blakei infection shows up like an allergy and many have confused it to cat allergy. I am allergic to cats and many other things, but cat allergy in me is mostly runny nose and eyes itching and watery after scratching.

In my room I have HEPA2 level air purifier machine, which constantly cleans air, it has also active carbon filter, should keep me safe side even with cats.

If I keep long sleeve shirt I get those symptomps only to non covered areas, if I go to livingroom or downstairs without trousers I get symptomps to legs, must be something there.

Slowly it is getting worse actually. Geranioil actually makes issues go away in few minutes, which is bit odd. If this keeps up it will be really difficult week starting next monday

It can be of course allergy, but can't find common thing that would be the cause, I have good streak of not visiting doctor going on, since 2007 I have not visited doctor and I have never been so little sick than after I stopped visiting doctors, surely will not start again now

Bit of mystery if not one of those mites that are not visible to naked eye, it did start at living room, so it must be something there, but living room is now 3 weeks off limits, after that time I go there and check if there is issues or not, then I know for sure as in 3 weeks both of those mites should be lifeless, if issues still continue after that, then there must be something else.

She was back, don't know if she left again, I did go to give her some fish, but could not see her there, left fish to bowl, sometime later I saw her quickly walking towards garage and then she diappeared behind the corner, but can't say if she really was just checking her territory, but as she came to visit I think she is sticking here, but she might have some plans which I have other opinion, like getting ton of new kittens, I mean I love kittens, but too much cuteness is too much cuteness and besides I'm not made out of money, surely even that cat would be with lot less trouble if she would not get pregnant again

Miuku is starting to get brave again, he did not hide after I did knock on door, just looked like he would be coming and going at the same time and actually not moving at all. He has such nice character, surely he is bit of maniac, but not kind of that would destroy everything, just very active and curious one. Mouku is curious, but not very active, also Mouku only looks big guy that others might get scared of, he is actually scared of his own shadow, Mouku has not ever showed any kind of ability to self defense, he just freezes.

Oh twice he has put his paw to my finger (before he was captured) but both times he then just walked away, it was long time ago when I did try to get him to accept my hand touching his fur, he could tolerate it tiny bit, Miuku mostly ignored my hand, only some times Miuku swabbed with paw, one time when I tried to be very persistent he touched my hand with teeth, no biting, just quick tap with teeth so I did backed off and we played happily afterwards.

Reason why Miuku is already eating while I'm in room is that he used to eat from my hand, lick my fingers and often used to push my hand away to get food before his brother could get it.

Hopefully we can get soon back to that level, I kind of miss his boldness at feeding time.

I did spy them with my little camera, which I put into ventilation tunnel like in some movies

This is Mouku, long haired one, which I trapped last Thursday (6 days ago) and he was neutered last Saturday, I had daytime nap on that sofa 6 hours before I took this video, I think he is doing ok? :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U247TdJ_ZYc

Them brothers are checking out birds (the flying type of birds that is)


Image quality is terrible, but I think you get the idea, boys are doing ok, still hiding from me, but when I did clean litterbox one of them jumped out from his hiding spot and was peeking me from the shadows of their curtain shield, so small progress every day

It takes some time to get them to point where they are comfortable with me, but they see people driving cars, bicyles and even walking / running frorm window that is upstairs so they get nice high position to look all things going on. Miuku has alredy got it that what is outside can't get to him, Mouku has little more to do in that area, but he is learning from Miuku.

Also Miuku is spying on me when I'm there, so now when I say good bye and close the door he is almost at the instant back on window or playing.

Seems to be quite fast improvements these days.

About two days was time which it took to pee smell did decrease after neutering. So their hormone levels are probably getting to their neutered levels by now.

I set trap for mother cat, don't know if she is going into it. Oh and I'm pretty sure there was other cat too, I did hear noises, it will be really bad if there is other cat and it does enter the trap instead of mother cat.

Also more progress, I gave food for those two at upstairs, when I was leaving Mouku came and look at me with his curious face.

I did again spent over 30 minutes taking little nap on sofa, when I left Mouku was all over the sofa again, then he settled on sofa and took small nap there.

They have been sharing litter box for now, must put both of them two boxes now and also need to get that scratching post from downstairs, they have new cat tree, but I don't know if they are using it, that I need to attach to wall so it will be super solid, that way there is no accidents.

Surely they will have soon lot of extra energy build up, they have been so careful about not to make sounds and they have played quite uninspired so to say, I'm sure they will soon return to their normal rough playing.

Have to leave them for few days next week, they have plenty of toys and enviroment made for cats play in mind, so I think they will be okay, they used to miss me before I captured them, they all came very quickly to very close when I returned and there was lot of cat head in a bowl which I tried to fill up, sometimes paw on my hand if I did not filled fast enough

It is surprisingly big step backwards when they are captured.