3 ferals at snow

Originally Posted by JTbo

Photography as hobby teaches to move slowly, I'm not very good at it, but sometimes I just get lucky

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Seems to me you're quite good at it! That picture of the bird in flight is AMAZING! It is some type of what here we call a Swallow. The other bird, I don't think we have? It looks kind of like a Chickadee, but they aren't yellow and don't have the wing bars. I also thought maybe a Warbler... but I think it's a type of bird we just don't have here.

As to the topical treatment... I really don't know what to suggest. We've only ever been able to apply it to ferals that trust us enough to eat in their presence, as usually we can be quick enough to spread the fur at the base of the neck and pop the liquid on there.

Did they have the Stronghold applied at the vet when neutered? The fleas and ear mites, if they had them, should be gone without another application right? So the treatment would be for internal parasites?

It might be easier to get an oral treatment from the vet, and maybe they'd eat it in a treat? Of course you'd have to control who got which treats then...

Sorry, I'm not being much help!

Originally Posted by LDG

Seems to me you're quite good at it! That picture of the bird in flight is AMAZING! It is some type of what here we call a Swallow. The other bird, I don't think we have? It looks kind of like a Chickadee, but they aren't yellow and don't have the wing bars. I also thought maybe a Warbler... but I think it's a type of bird we just don't have here.

As to the topical treatment... I really don't know what to suggest. We've only ever been able to apply it to ferals that trust us enough to eat in their presence, as usually we can be quick enough to spread the fur at the base of the neck and pop the liquid on there.

Did they have the Stronghold applied at the vet when neutered? The fleas and ear mites, if they had them, should be gone without another application right? So the treatment would be for internal parasites?

It might be easier to get an oral treatment from the vet, and maybe they'd eat it in a treat? Of course you'd have to control who got which treats then...

Sorry, I'm not being much help!

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Thank you from the comments, I think photos are coming out bit too blurry and there are other errors too, so I try to get better in photography, hopefully boys will soon be so adjusted that they are staying on sight during the day, then I could take lot of photos from them

Yellow/black bird is called "Great Tit" in UK english, one of the most common birds here at the winter.

Boys got Stronghold applied at vet, but they told me that there is need for 2nd threatment in around 3 weeks which should take care of 2nd generation of parasites.

Well, if Stronghold IS Revolution, the 2nd application is for the round worm - everything else it treats (fleas, flea eggs, tapeworm) it kills the first time around. But it doesn't kill round worm larvae or eggs, so they hatch and become adults, so you need to kill those, thus the 2nd application 3 weeks/4 weeks after the first application. There are liquid and pill options for treating round worm. If you have trouble getting the topical on them, you may want to consider something you can get into them through their food.

Although... they had a pretty bad flea infestation, didn't they? If there's the chance there were still flea larvae/eggs in their room, I guess they really need the 2nd application of the flea treatment part too (which also means treatment for tapeworm).

This may end up being one of those temporary steps back you just have to take.

Originally Posted by LDG

Well, if Stronghold IS Revolution, the 2nd application is for the round worm - everything else it treats (fleas, flea eggs, tapeworm) it kills the first time around. But it doesn't kill round worm larvae or eggs, so they hatch and become adults, so you need to kill those, thus the 2nd application 3 weeks/4 weeks after the first application. There are liquid and pill options for treating round worm. If you have trouble getting the topical on them, you may want to consider something you can get into them through their food.

Although... they had a pretty bad flea infestation, didn't they? If there's the chance there were still flea larvae/eggs in their room, I guess they really need the 2nd application of the flea treatment part too (which also means treatment for tapeworm).

This may end up being one of those temporary steps back you just have to take.

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I have been thinking really hard about that flea thing and I think fleas should be seen, right? I never have seen anything and most they scratched was their ears.

Also all of you did thought that bumps on my skin did look like allergic reaction.

This leaves two possibility, one of those mites that can't be seen by eye or allergic reaction. When I did talk with one vet she thought that it is very rare that cat would have such mite especially when they are out at winter time.

I have not got those bumps lately.

Also feral males perhaps gives bit stronger effect than one probably neutered female stray which is my past experience and then it was only eyes and runny nose to me and only when touching, well, that one did lick my face, hands and so on, also rubbed her face against my nose and also took a bite from my nose quite often, so I did got a ton of cat into my system for sure

Anyway, with my logic there are perhaps no fleas to worry about. I think that worming route via liquid put into food is perhaps best at this situation? I have to keep close eye on them so that if I see scratching, then I might need to do Stronghold all over again, but I don't think it will go to that.


I was at short trip and when I came back I could not see any cats, but I did hear boys, at least one of them was there, but hiding, mother cat I could not see, no noise, no visible marks on snow, but that is understandable as we are having a huge snowstorm here, I could not see even 20 meters when driving, so mother cat has probably not gone out, but she perhaps is showing me how annoying it is when I disappear, probably same with boys, they are awfully silent there, no stomping at all.

It is really pulling me apart now that I have to stay days away because of work and as I see how they don't like from it at all, cats are however very important to me, but without work there is no possibility live with cats in a house, but still they are perhaps suffering when I'm gone and that I don't want at all. Then again, they are ferals, they are scared of me, maybe they manage just fine, at least there is food and water + plenty of litter box area, only thing they miss is fish or meat really.
It is torturing when reality is not allowing best solution.

I expect they're managing just fine (often to our dismay LOL) when you have to travel. It'd be more worrying if there were just one kitty, but they've got each other, and Momma is used to being independent.

That said.... cats do like the routine and do miss it.

If you think the fleas aren't a problem, then I'd really consider getting a pill or liquid dewormer from the vet. Only one of our 8 will eat food with a liquid medicine added to it ( ), but all of them eat pills hidden inside of a treat with butter on it. I don't know which to recommend. With my luck, they'll eat the opposite of what I suggest LOL.

However, you do feed them fish, which is stronger smelling than the food we feed our cats, so that may help too.

And if you see little "rice" like bits on their bedding, that means they have tapeworm. That would be a sign of fleas. But it only requires one treatment, so that should have been taken care of with the first treatment. This is one way to help figure out if there is ongoing problem with fleas.

All I can see is fur, fur is everywhere, give cat a fleece blanket and cat makes it fleece with permanent fur coating Nothing resembling rice or any other things really.
They do shed a lot.

I thought that I would put mattresses back today, but when I lifted corner of one, there was Mouku under it, his perfect and dark hiding spot was to go under mattresses, there he was, looking at me tilting his head like asking "and what do you think you are doing to my place?" there was no way of stealing his hiding spot, so I did carefully put mattresses back and let him be there. Oddly he did not even tried to move, but he is bit like that, too scared to move a limb kind of cat.

I don't know where other one was, maybe between wall and other mattresses, they are probably seeking dark places to sleep, must try to make up something for them.

That's so funny!

I can just see Mouku's face!

Luna is shedding a lot too. I find white fur all over my desk and chair. One table has a purple table cloth covering it and there white fur all over it. I think she lays there when I'm gone.

I thought that I should spend more time with them, so I did work whole day from their sofa, then I did took a nap in there, 3 hours I found out and it was already quite dark when I did woke up, there were steps, one of them used litter box and then went back to hiding.

I could hear more of them after dark, but they seem to get more reserved if I am not presenting their food or cleaning litter box as when I'm around. Maybe they are pissed, who knows, but it took about a week to get into level where we had little play, however at the moment they are not on that level or at least were not yesterday.

So decided to spent all days with them and part of evenings, surely they are then getting more contact and perhaps they decide to get rid of me, or at least try as I steal their best spot

Mother cat's food did disappear last night, but did not disappear today, also could not hear her or see her at warehouse, however there was no any tracks on snow either, I think she is still there, but for some reason not very social, maybe revenge from my absence. Trapping plans keep changing too, need to be work at monday so can try only next tuesday, hopefully it does work then.

Oh, I did cleaned litter boxes, Mouku came to inspect my work from sofa, then he climbed to window and started looking how it does snow outside, but room had no light at all and it is 22pm here, streetlamp glows into room, so they see ok, but for me it was bit challenge to clean their boxes in that darkness.

I just love reading your updates!!! They always make me smile

Miuku and Mouku seem to be settling in just fine. I'm sure they can see and sense how much they are loved by you!!

I can just see Mouku inspecting the litter box, making sure you did everything to his liking. It puts a smile on my face.

I am sorry to hear that Mauku has not been around lately. Hopefully she will be back. Wishing you good luck and love

I decided to sleep door open, so they can explore my side of upstairs when I'm sleeping, I think that someone has visited, but I slept with ear plugs so I really can't tell.

Yesterday I cleaned their window, it had lot of nose marks and few paw prints on it

I don't know if mother cat is at warehouse, there is dry food which I can't tell if it has disappeared, wet food did not disappear, but I still put new one there, she can hide her presence really well if she does not want to be seen.

edit: I did check and mother cat has gone somewhere for certain as there was no sounds at all when I did check place where she most likely have been sleeping, probably she is not sitting at corner of concrete floor as it has been -13C again last night, but she has gone somewhere.

I'm sure she went someplace warmer!

And I agree, your posts always bring a smile!

Originally Posted by LDG

I'm sure she went someplace warmer!

And I agree, your posts always bring a smile!

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She has heated insulated condo in there, should be very warm and here is no other cat friendly houses in 2 mile radius, also it was huge snowstorm when she have left, so I'm bit worried. Must be this spring thing.

Boys are having mad hour, well mostly Miuku is, he is so fast, under one second and he has leaped across the room, on sofa, to hiding spot in cat tree, back on sofa, in one pic his face is inside of hiding place of cat tree, in other pic he is batting Mouku's head from sofa, rest is just stripes different sides of room. For brief moment he fights with scratching post, climbs it up, goes to his side and pulls and twists, ears wide tail swinging, sometimes stopping and stretching his neck and pulling head backwards from enjoyment that good scratching makes.

Mouku sometimes makes fake attacks and Miuku is set off again, leaping all over the place, I'm pretty sure Mouku is laughing as he just sits and watches Miuku go like he would be possessed.

Mouku hardly ever runs, but when Mouku bats, then he hits too, right onto Miuku's head and again Miuku is set off running off like mad, jumping from hiding spot to other, attacking, retreating.

Pure comedy, sometimes they stop and look into door with faces like "What an earth is happening there" but that is because I'm laughing out loud while watching their jumping from video feed

I try today to give them bit of wet food, when it gets dark. I try to make it similar which they have already used to in warehouse, maybe they find it familiar way of feeding, it is kind of ritual, includes lot of tapping edges of bowl with spoon and even introducing food can with great deal of time, making noises with can and opening it so they should be very used to those sounds and I'm really interested to see if it is enough to get them eat while I'm present and offering food.
When I did fed them at warehouse, I took great care to make same sounds every time and they did learn those sounds so well that tapping can with spoon usually caused them to run to feeding place.

They have been exposed to my presence now for almost 40 hours of last 48 hours, surely they have spend most of it hiding, but also quite some time with spying on me, so they should have now something going on on their minds

Oh, Mouku was not going to wake up as sun started to set, so I did lift again his mattresses and again head turns ears rotates and he seem not to quite like from what I'm doing, this time I did lower mattresses, but put them so that he now can see to door, it is kind of shock therapy, seemed to help a bit when looking last night, he was not much worried about me being there, he still climbed to window and looked out, so maybe he this way learns that even I'm coming close to him, I'm not eating him. I don't plan to do it too much however, he might get very pissed and I think cat should have place of peace too. Hopefully I can build him bit better place there, sleeping on cold floor under mattresses can't be too comfy, so I try to make some dark place there for him too, Miuku has taken place between wall and pile of mattresses.

Sounds like they are having so much fun!!

Again, I can imagine all the running, jumping, attacking, and playing in my head!

Have you now left the door open full-time or is it only at night?

I too hope mother cat is ok, sending love and hoping she returns soon

Originally Posted by alexandrajames

Sounds like they are having so much fun!!

Again, I can imagine all the running, jumping, attacking, and playing in my head!

Have you now left the door open full-time or is it only at night?

I too hope mother cat is ok, sending love and hoping she returns soon

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Only at night time I keep door open, but during the day I'm working there with laptop and taking nap etc.

Two cats is a lot better than one for me as they need to be alone at times, so they can play together.

Cardboard mouse has been today's toy number two, number one was scratching post, I think that I need to get better camera so that I can see what they are doing in a dark too

I did put one night light for there, but it is so tiny amount of light that it is not helping, but maybe it helps cats to climb up that shelf thing I did build, treats are not disappearing from there, but then again treats are not disappearing from many places, they find those quite badly really, but it is only treat they eat. Tuna treats they sniff but nothing more, cat mint they lick, maybe bite once and spit out, most others they do sniff and that is all, oh one bar type did disappear but rest of them have not disappeared, only tiny heart treats seem to work, but they don't spot them too well, even I can smell them just fine, so they should smell them really easily.
They do like them a lot, but spotting treats seem to be bit of problem.

Hand feeding stage is quite far still, let's hope this night brings some progress.

edit: So I did experiment with wet food, it was a success, both of them came and did eat from spoon, they were very cautious and Mouku did only take few licks and bites, but Miuku did eat with great trust, I was allowed to fill bowl while he was eating, surely after eating quite a bit he did started looking at me and then moved bit further away to clean himself, but still not hiding, then he jumped to look out from window and Mouku jumped down from window and did bit more eating from the spoon. After Mouku did eat one spoonfull he did go near to curtain, watching there and estimating if he should go hiding or if he could stay on sight.

I then played a bit with string on wand toy, Miuku managed to sneak right next to me without making single sound or me seeing him, there he just came and turned around, then wen't behind the curtain, but clearly that wet food offering is route I must continue, it is so deep in their memory that such sounds and that food is good thing, that they are willing to approach and that should give us good moments together and perhaps socialization will move forward quite bit faster as they remember how they used to trust and play with me.

That's wonderful that they allowed you to be in room while they ate. Especially from a spoon!!!!

I think too that it is good when you can have more than one cat. I often wonder how bored Luna gets just with the whole being alone thing.

Your little kitties are living the life!! They are so lucky to have you caring for them!!! Who knows what would have happened if it wasn't for you!

What kind of camera do you have? I really think I want to put one in Luna's room. I would love to see what she does when no one is around! I'm not a real computer wiz so I have no idea what to look for.

Luna and I are sending you and your little kitty friends lots of love!!!!

Originally Posted by alexandrajames

That's wonderful that they allowed you to be in room while they ate. Especially from a spoon!!!!

I think too that it is good when you can have more than one cat. I often wonder how bored Luna gets just with the whole being alone thing.

Your little kitties are living the life!!

They are so lucky to have you caring for them!!! Who knows what would have happened if it wasn't for you!

What kind of camera do you have? I really think I want to put one in Luna's room. I would love to see what she does when no one is around! I'm not a real computer wiz so I have no idea what to look for.

Luna and I are sending you and your little kitty friends lots of love!!!!

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Simple webcam will do just fine, often they come with software that can record video when motion is detected, also there is free great software called iSpy that has more features, but still rather easy to use, it can record also sound with video.

Webcam is connected to laptop, which runs the software, laptop is nice because it does not use lot of power and at least in here price of electricity is climbing really fast these days.

As I have played with computers I have Linux operating system in laptop connected to that camera and software called Motion is doing all the video capturing, it has better control and stability, but it is rather complicated software, so I can't recommend it for easy way to get cheap pet camera system.

Things sold as pet camera or baby camera are not much better in image quality but do cost a lot more.

There are also webcams with IR leds available, those can see in dark room too.

I did saw that mother cat was back, she has come during the night, food gone, so I gave her new food, but she was not relaxed herself, when I did swing wand toy she did watch it from distance and then decided to try to sneak out from warehouse, she must have been really scared of that storm, so I did set up the trap, but can't do that at warehouse as it is her safe harbour, so put it to yard on place that where she usually walks, now I just have to wait, hopefully she comes to examine it while there still is light, bit over 8 hours left now.

-18C last night, I did put yesterday some insulation to place where she probably sleeps, so that she would not freeze to death if she is she comes and good that I put as she had returned and for some reason is not using the heated and insulated condo she has.

I'm thinking a bit to block other paths than one leading to trap, but that is perhaps just making her suspicious.

Mother cat is bit odd, she does not meow, only sounds I have heard from her are hiss and growl, oh and kind of slurp, that is when she sees something yummy, she does then kind of yawn but licks side of her mouth and makes such slurp noise.

It is just bit hard to bait a trap when it is below freezing, also snow makes it's own problems, for example it is possible that snow melts because of sun and then freezes making trip plate not to work, also bait is going to freeze in minutes. I did my best to avoid any problems, but it can still be that she decides to avoid the trap.

I was hoping that I could trap her next week, but as I have no idea if she is going to stay any more than this daytime, that is why I have to try when she is around, it will be rather long wait in the trap for her, but there is no other way really, if I get her today, then getting her again inside of room at tuesday might be impossible, however getting her to vet is possible at tuesday at earliest, I could try to build her some sort of enclosure today and tomorrow, so she would not need to be in trap so long, however it can be wasted effort, she has some houdini cat genes

edit: I did put some wet food to their bowl now even it is almost brightest time of day, to my surprise Miuku did come and started eating food in bright daylight, he is looking so much better than at the warehouse, fur is not messed up and it is starting to be bit shiny too, he just tasted it for few bites and then went back to hiding again, but he seem to be a lot better now, starting to come near, it was great thing to try that wet food, hopefully at evening they are getting even more interested.

I bought two toys that have rattling things inside, I placed them now to top shelf, so that they can see them, maybe later they explore and see what is up there, Miuku is at least searching of those things that did make interesting sounds. I did also notice that while Mouku is under mattresses, Miuku stomped over him at top of mattresses, poor Mouku, he must be very scared because of that, so I must do something about that.

edit2: Mother cat is making noise, she never before has, it sounds like she would be in pain, crying, but she stops when I open the door, then she comes near door to sit and stare, but she is not coming in, I think that either she has a problem, or then she is in heat which I don't really cant tell as I don't know what kind of sounds female cat is making when in heat.

Miuku wanted door open, or that is how I did understood that scratching underside of door (there is small gap), so I did open a door and there he was looking to me curiously, so I left door open and continued eating my dinner, there he is then, jumps to insulation material which is at doorway, about 50cm high and 5cm thick, he sits then there at top of it and examines what I am doing, he spent long time there, after I finished eating I went to their side and played with miuku for good 10 minutes, he is still bit scared, but not even near to level that he had two days ago, few times he got scared of toy, but then returned and saw how there is no real danger.

I have not probably mentioned about their cube, it is cardboard box with 4 sides cut quite open, really large openings, and none at bottom, then small one at top, he found out that to be great spot for string hunting, so he is 'hiding' there, doing attacks, then I put string from top hole and he gets to attack it, I pull string away as if it would be escaping and poor Miuku tries to squeeze trough that hole, which is not really enough big for his head, then another attempt of pawing the string.

He is still very reserved and scared, but a lot more confident and I'm sure he is learning every day more.

Mouku was on sofa, he did observe, but he did not participate, but it is not necessary for cat to participate for learning, cats can learn things just by watching. So that was quite nice playtime, later I will give last meal of day and if they are willing to, I will play with them too, might keep door open again, only tiny bit so they can open it if want to visit, but still having their privacy.

They are now having some fun as I can hear a lot of stomping and running

Oh also installed today new scratching board to wall too, don't know if it will be success, but it is good to have more scratching things, there is cat tree and scratching post, now scratching board too, they are making toys disappear somewhere and I don't know where that somewhere is, but maybe they will find them themselves, there should not be places where they can't get, so putting toy somewhere unreachable should not be a problem.

It is already dark and mother cat did not wanted to get into trap today, maybe tomorrow.

edit: I think something is happening, Miuku has come and gone to this side of upstairs, just one moment ago he did walk right next to my bed and there observed me typing with laptop on my bed, then he did check many places of this room and run off, little after he did run back here and did go under computer table, examining something, then running off again, I don't know what he is upto, but certainly he is upto something. I did some slow blinking towards him as he came here and talked to him too, he seemed to be rather curious, but also bit terrified, he probably comes again soon, quite funny actually how he has changed in two days, should not be too long that he is rather confident that I don't eat him, if this keeps up as last two days. Familiar feeding of wet food seemed to make him so trustful, quite odd, but I'm not complaining.

edit2: Now Miuku is under the bed, I don't know why, but there he did go, no matter that I am still on the bed. He gets scared quite quickly, then running off, but he stays here few minutes at the time, I guess time gets longer when he gets more used to me. It is thrilling experience.

Oh my goodness, SO MUCH progress in just a few posts I feel like I'm missing everything

I am absolutely grinning from ear-to-ear! Everybody has such good updates today.

SUCH A BRAVE LITTLE BOY!

...and I didn't remember you had the heated condo in there. But I'm really glad to hear she's back. Maybe she just got caught out and didn't want to venture back until she felt safer to come home.

...and that noise you heard that sounds like maybe she's in pain... I think it may very well be she's in heat. The first time I heard it I thought a cat had just been run over by a car or something.

Sending many vibes she will go into the trap!!!!!!!

Sounds like you have had a very exciting day!!

I too am grinning ear-to-ear. I can see Miuku now running back and forth just checking you out. I can see it happening so clearly in my head! It's so funny hearing about them playing and running and jumping!! Always brings a smile to my face.

I am so glad that mother cat has come home and hopefully all will go well with the trapping.

Wishing you and all your furry friends lots of Love and Luck!!!