My Daughter is Coming Over; I Feel a Fight Coming

No Laurie, she's never seen a psychiatrist. We went to family therapy when she was about 10 because her lying was out of control. She has a real problem knowing where the truth ends and a lie begins. I think that she also had some attachment issues, after having spent the first 4 1/2 years of her life in an orphanage. She clings to the wrong people in an incredibly short period of time. I think she also has "Mother issues"; I always told her that her birth Mother surrendered her for adoption because she simply didn't have the means to take care of her. I don't believe that to be true (we actually don't know the entire truth), but I think the reality just isn't pretty and I've always tried to spare her. When I told her in the past how much something she's done has hurt her Dad and me, her answer has always been, "I didn't hurt Dad, I just hurt you". Ouch.
Of course, I'm second guessing myself right now; I know in my heart that I did the right thing, but that doesn't really make it any better. For the time being, she's someone I don't even know; until, as her Dad says, she gets her head out of her rear end there doesn't seem to be much I can do about it.

No kidding - Ouch. Wow - that's really a tough one.

...And her Dad's right.

I'm really proud of you - I can't imagine how hard that was. I know how hard it's been.

It sounds to me like LDG is onto something. Not to sound like Dr. Phil here, but family counseling does help some folks. What I'm hearing is she has definite baggage from her "supposed abandonment" as a baby, is directing said baggage at you, her adoptive mother, and talking this out with a professional could help...

I've just discovered that my daughter had an ulterior motive for wanting to 'make things right' with me. I'd mentioned in my original post that she had stopped by to talk to her Dad on Sunday; he didn't tell me everything they'd talked about, and I didn't really expect him to. When our daughter was here this afternoon, she made a really strange remark that really ticked me off---so much so that I jumped down DH's throat about it. She told me that her Dad was going to take her and her BF on a vacation to Florida. I told her she must be mistaken; her comment to me was, "You'd better talk to your husband." Turns out that when she had talked to him Sunday, one of the first things out of her mouth was, "Dad, your parents are getting too old to go to Florida; me and K. (the boyfriend) sure would like to go. We went to 6 flags and he really liked it, and I told him you and I go to Florida all the time." He told her that maybe in a few years, if things got back to normal, we could all go as a family. That's when she decided to 'make things right with Mom'.

After comparing notes, Dave and I have come to the conclusion that this was all a ploy on her part to get a free vacation for her and her bf. After I told her to leave, she went straight to her Dad's work and asked him about the vacation again. When he told her that he wasn't going this year she lost all interest in talking to him.

I've always known she was manipulative, but this surprised me. I didn't think she could be this devious. Dave is more upset about it than I am; I think he was hoping that she seriously wanted to make amends. I told him that at least now we know exactly where we stand with her, that she is still the same immature child that ran away last summer. Amazing what a person will do to try to get a free vacation.

I'm so sorry things are still not worked out with you daughter i know she has hurt you a lot,but I'm wondering is there anything you think can happen to make it all okay? I think the pain of what she has done to you may never go away, but I am sure you still love her, and if she doesn't believe she has done anything wrong, is there any way you can just agree to disagree for the sake of trying to fix your relationship and try to build a new one in which you treat her as an adult without trying to help her and let her make her own mistakes without letting them affect you? I mean have you thought about what's best for your family, it just sounds like you are not only hurt by her, but she continues hurting you and its just unfair

Wow, [size=+2]wow[/size], [size=+3]wow![/size] I can't imagine how much you're hurting under what must be so much anger!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by ut0pia

I'm so sorry things are still not worked out with you daughter

i know she has hurt you a lot,but I'm wondering is there anything you think can happen to make it all okay? I think the pain of what she has done to you may never go away, but I am sure you still love her, and if she doesn't believe she has done anything wrong, is there any way you can just agree to disagree for the sake of trying to fix your relationship and try to build a new one in which you treat her as an adult without trying to help her and let her make her own mistakes without letting them affect you? I mean have you thought about what's best for your family, it just sounds like you are not only hurt by her, but she continues hurting you and its just unfair

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Mariya, I don't want to speak for Libby, but it seems to me that they tried treating her like an adult, and she lied and manipulated... and how do you treat someone like an adult when they won't act like one?

Just like sometimes a child has to distance themselves from a "toxic" family, parents sometimes have to "cut loose" a child that refuses to "grow up" or become responsible... or progress TO adulthood... or treat parents with respect...

Aww hun I'm so sorry its gone like this, I can't believe she thought if she made it up with you she would have a free holiday come the summer whilst still lying to you, she has shown she hasn't grown up by not admitting to her mistakes and calling you a racist

But go you for not crying and sticking to your guns on it

Originally Posted by libby74

I've just discovered that my daughter had an ulterior motive for wanting to 'make things right' with me. I'd mentioned in my original post that she had stopped by to talk to her Dad on Sunday; he didn't tell me everything they'd talked about, and I didn't really expect him to. When our daughter was here this afternoon, she made a really strange remark that really ticked me off---so much so that I jumped down DH's throat about it. She told me that her Dad was going to take her and her BF on a vacation to Florida. I told her she must be mistaken; her comment to me was, "You'd better talk to your husband." Turns out that when she had talked to him Sunday, one of the first things out of her mouth was, "Dad, your parents are getting too old to go to Florida; me and K. (the boyfriend) sure would like to go. We went to 6 flags and he really liked it, and I told him you and I go to Florida all the time." He told her that maybe in a few years, if things got back to normal, we could all go as a family. That's when she decided to 'make things right with Mom'.

After comparing notes, Dave and I have come to the conclusion that this was all a ploy on her part to get a free vacation for her and her bf. After I told her to leave, she went straight to her Dad's work and asked him about the vacation again. When he told her that he wasn't going this year she lost all interest in talking to him.

I've always known she was manipulative, but this surprised me. I didn't think she could be this devious. Dave is more upset about it than I am; I think he was hoping that she seriously wanted to make amends. I told him that at least now we know exactly where we stand with her, that she is still the same immature child that ran away last summer. Amazing what a person will do to try to get a free vacation.

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Wow. Just......wow. I'm sitting here shaking my head. Kudos to you for standing up to her. You did a great job. I hope she'll come around someday and realize what all you've done for her.

Being in an orphanage, though, can do a number on a child. My SIL and BIL adopted a little girl (the agency never told them about the physical, emotional and sexual trauma this child went through......all before she was 7 years old!) It turns out that she was a big liar through and through, but she never saw things that way. She told horrific stories about my SIL and BIL, but nothing was true. My SIL and BIL bent over backwards to help her and to do things for her.

She was also quite a thief and was always stealing, not only from her parents, but also from her parents' friends. She even took my FIL's wallet when they were down to dinner one night. When my son got married, they had put digital cameras on the reception tables for people to take pictures. Well, she took the camera home and never did give it back to my son and DIL.

She caused a lot of problems in the family. Got pregnant twice and had two miscarriages. Then she told everybody she was pregnant the third time and having twins.....that was a lie, too; she just wanted people to do things for her and buy things. They finally gave up on her and she's living with a her third boyfriend....somewhere. To their credit, they tried. OMG, they tried with that girl. Family counseling, therapy, you name it they did it. The problem was that the girl never, ever saw herself as anything other than the victim in everything. The thing is, that child went through hell before she was 7! And it left such a lasting impression on her.

I'm so sorry you're going through this with your daughter. It's just so sad. And sometimes they just never "get it".

The sad part about all this is that up until she started this ridiculous behaviour, Dave and I had always told anyone who would listen what a great kid she was. Her one fault was her inability to tell the truth, that if she could just get over that we'd have no complaints about her at all. And it was true. I seriously don't know what happened to change her into the person she is now. But, like I said, at least now we know just how manipulative and deceitful she actually is.

Mariya, I don't want to speak for Libby, but it seems to me that they tried treating her like an adult, and she lied and manipulated... and how do you treat someone like an adult when they won't act like one?

Just like sometimes a child has to distance themselves from a "toxic" family, parents sometimes have to "cut loose" a child that refuses to "grow up" or become responsible... or progress TO adulthood... or treat parents with respect...

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Thanks for that, Laurie. We have, indeed, tried to treat her like an adult; until she starts acting like one there isn't a heck of a lot we can do.

Originally Posted by libby74

The sad part about all this is that up until she started this ridiculous behaviour, Dave and I had always told anyone who would listen what a great kid she was. Her one fault was her inability to tell the truth, that if she could just get over that we'd have no complaints about her at all. And it was true. I seriously don't know what happened to change her into the person she is now. But, like I said, at least now we know just how manipulative and deceitful she actually is.



Thanks for that, Laurie. We have, indeed, tried to treat her like an adult; until she starts acting like one there isn't a heck of a lot we can do.

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And more than the anger, I'm sure it's breaking your heart.

Just popping back in here to give you a big sweetheart. You're such a strong woman...and I am so sorry that you and your husband are going through this. You don't deserve it.

good for you!!
i was one of those kids. i had ALOT of problems with my parents (and step dad) about the time i turned 17. i said alot of hurtful things and took advantage of them in so many ways, i never thought we could ever have a relationship at any point...that was 2 years ago( im 23 now).
it took meeting my boyfriend to make me WANT to change. until then nothing had been worth it. nothing had been important enough. but being around someone so positive (not like the people i was hanging around) and honest and just an all around great, loving, mature person made me want to be a better person.
at first it was to just be good enough for him (in my eyes not his) but it soon turned into wanting to do it for myself, for my future, and for the future we plan to build together. but it took a lot of talks, fights, therapy and healing to finally get to a good place with my parents. my dad has really stepped up and fixed his problems and ive done the same. and just within the past 3 months my mom has also finally agreed that she has to put in as much effort as i do if we are going to have a relationship, and now we talk almost everyday!
i really hope she finds something worth living for, something worth CHANGING for, very soon and that you guys can start to mend your relationship. ill pray for her and for you that you keep that strength up and stand your ground and start to heal from all of this.

I have to thank all of you again for keeping me sane. There have been some terrrible, terrible days---days when all I did was cry and wonder what we'd done to deserve this treatment. I've since come to the conclusion that we didn't do anything wrong. You guys have listened to me complain and kvetch, given me advice, and sent me a cyber hug or pat on the back when I needed it most. You're all so special to me; I appreciate each and everyone of you

Libby I'm just reading this thread for the first time. I don't know how I missed it last month. I'm so sorry that your relationship is not improving. While not nearly as serious as your issue, I'm having some daughter problems too. It's amazing how they can break your heart.

Hang in there, and know that you have cyber friends here!

Leslie

I'm just now seeing this, too, and my heart breaks for you. I'm so sorry for how you must feel.

It seems to me that people who are habitual liars sometimes think it's justified because they feel they've been cheated in some way. Do you think maybe your daughter feels cheated because her birth mother gave her up? I wonder if she might gain some perspective if she knew the truth about her birth mother. Even if it's an ugly truth... or especially if it is. Maybe if she knew the whole story, she would realize how lucky she is to have you.

Originally Posted by CarolPetunia

It seems to me that people who are habitual liars sometimes think it's justified because they feel they've been cheated in some way. Do you think maybe your daughter feels cheated because her birth mother gave her up? I wonder if she might gain some perspective if she knew the truth about her birth mother. Even if it's an ugly truth... or especially if it is. Maybe if she knew the whole story, she would realize how lucky she is to have you.

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Unfortunately, we don't know that our supposition regarding her birth mother is 100% accurate. We know her age, we know she left her/our daughter in a birthing hospital for 6 weeks before she signed her rights away, and we know how people of her ethnic background are treated in her native country. There would be very few mainstream jobs available for her, which leads us to our conclusion that she may have had a different sort of job. And you may be right about our daughter feeling she had been cheated in some way; last spring, DD started talking about getting a tattoo of her birth mother's name. Seemed strange to me, but I told her the name and how to spell it. She hadn't had it done before she ran away, and I assume she hasn't had the cash to have it done yet; who knows?

During the last 8 months, Dave has always said this situation didn't affect him the way it affected me---that he was hurt because I was hurt, and that he couldn't have a relationship with our daughter until she had made peace with me. About a week after we'd both had our run-in with her, we were talking and he said, "she didn't have to hurt us the way she did." Finally. Of course, this was after I'd checked her email account (what?!) and discovered she'd been researching ticket prices for Florida theme parks. Up until then, I think he'd been hoping that a free vacation wasn't her reason for coming to talk to both of us. I think that made him realize how she was trying to manipulate him, and that hurt him more than she knows.

When we spoke, I pointed out to her that I don't even know her anymore--that the daughter I had raised would never have treated anyone the way she's treated her Dad and me. She had no reply, just looked at me. In order to deal with this, I've had to 'harden my heart' and honestly, that is just not me. I'm the most emotional, sentimental fool you'll ever come across; I'm afraid that I'm trying so hard to push the pain away that I'm pushing the possibility of forgiving her someday away, too. There are days I miss her terribly; there are other days I feel as if I don't care if I ever see her again. That scares me. That really scares me.

Anyway, thank you again everyone for the cyber-hugs and understanding. I know I'm not the only parent who's ever gone thru an emotional crisis with their child; I appreciate all the advice and encouragement. You guys are truly the best.

Originally Posted by libby74

In order to deal with this, I've had to 'harden my heart' and honestly, that is just not me. I'm the most emotional, sentimental fool you'll ever come across; I'm afraid that I'm trying so hard to push the pain away that I'm pushing the possibility of forgiving her someday away, too. There are days I miss her terribly; there are other days I feel as if I don't care if I ever see her again. That scares me. That really scares me.

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As long as you're scared at the idea of not caring about never seeing her again you care enough to forgive her some day. -hugs- Stay strong.

You're an amazingly strong woman and reading this almost scares me because I am exactly like you....I am such an emotional person, I cry at the drop of a hat.

I wish things were different between you and your daughter, I see other people having such close relationships with their Moms and it makes me sad knowing I don't have that...my Mom did alot of things when I was a kid to really hurt me, I've forgiven her but I never forgot and I don't hold it against her but I'll never trust her again. I love her, we talk on a daily basis (she lives 3 hrs away) and we visit each other 2-3 times a year. I've lost alot of respect for her but I'll always be there for her. There were times I HATED, flat out hated her...she had an affair on my Dad, my brother and I came home from school to find her gone, all that was there was a note on the table....she left with her new man, drove halfway across Canada and left her children (I was 11 and my brother was 13) with an alcoholic father (this is just one of the things she's done)..

It took alot, I was on an emotional rollercoaster for many years.
I hope more then anything in this world that you and your daughter can have some sort of relationship, and if not, know you were an amazing Mom and you're a strong/brave woman who tried her hardest We don't always to have to understand why things turn out the way we do, but even if it's a bad thing I believe we grow and learn from it.

Libby, I feel for you on this emotional roller coaster ride with your daughter. I have had many, many sleepless nights and emotional days regarding my daughter too. Sometimes it is the best to just give the ultimatum and stick to it. Hard and scary as it is, we had to do it too. When these issues are turning your home into a battle ground and you feel like a hostage in your home, it is time to make that change and you have to put yourself first and your DH first. I can tell you things have totally turned around with my daughter after four years, and it is a miracle. But, there is still a part of me that doesn't trust her that she will slip back into her ways. You can forgive, but it is the forgetting that I am having trouble with and the trusting again...

There is always hope......sending lots of hug and prayers your way..