How to feed a savagely ravenous carnivore with a thyroid problem?

I'm confronted with the issue of how to feed a cat who appears chronically hungry. What I'm feeding her now is what the vet sold me: Medi-Cal (I think that's the Canadian Techni-Cal), but a pet store guy says that stuff's no good for carnivores, and he recommends some kind of natural hippie brand. Sorry, I don't remember the name.

Last November I returned home to be told by my mother that I should test my cat for diabetes. As it turns out, she isn't diabetic, but she does have a hyperactive thyroid. Since then, her every waking thought is food. I'm scared to stir at home, lest she thinks she's going to be fed. She pats my face in the morning, if I don't get up earlier enough to feed her.

Her weight appears to have stabilized at about 10.5lbs (she's 14-years-old), and the vet says that with the meds I'm giving her, her blood is the way it should be. Her hunger is another matter. The pet store guy says that it isn't unhealthy, and that cats aren't hungry when they're sick, they don't eat. In my experience, a healthy cat will harass you for food well before mealtimes, but not until several hours after eating. This one doesn't seem to be able to go more than 15 minutes.

The pet store guy showed me a list of ingredients in Medi-Cal and the organic stuff he supplies. Medi-Cal has all these grains near the top of the list, while the meat protein is more of an afterthought. He also blames the corn for what makes the cat hungry, because that's not nutrition for cats. What he offers is w/out grain, and much better for cats, he says.

So now I am faced with a conflict of advice. Should I go with a medical professional, or a guy who works in retail? The pet store guy points out that, unlike him, vets can be good at treating a thyroid, but know little about nutrition, and only get 2 hours of training for it, which is given by the pet food companies.

So I thought I'd go on-line, and see what advice I could find. I wanted to ask at catforum.com, but the morons there banned me for spamming before I even had the power to post!

What formula of Medi-Cal (Royal Canin Prescription in the US) is she on? When I Googled it, it looks like there are a bunch of different formulas. Does she ever get canned food or just the dry?

I don't think that most hyperthyroid cats require a prescription diet. The hyperthyroid cats I know eat regular cat food. So it may be worth switching to a food with a higher meat content. Unless your vet has a specific reason for wanting her on the prescription food, it may not be necessary.

And try to find out which brand the pet store guy is recommending. Some of the "hippie" foods (LOL) aren't as great as they advertise, either.

Have you told the vet about her voracious appetite? Her meds may need adjusting.

What is the thyroid problem you are dealing with? I know that my cat always appeared very hungry...would come up and meow everytime she wanted food, and would keep doing so until you went downstairs to feed her. As it turned out, she was probably developing a hyperthyroid problem. As long as she is holding her weight, the T4 levels should be ok. My cat started to lose weight despite eating good. That's when the bloodwork began and diagnosed hyperthyroidism.

Best of luck....hope she continues to do well.

Keith

Has her blood pressure been tested? Cat with hypertension are often excessively vocal--she could be meowing due to high blood pressure rather than solely out of hunger. Also, you could try a treat ball, or spreading her food out on a plate or cookie sheet--eating more slowly might give her time to realize she's full. How much food is she getting per day?

Originally Posted by Willowy

What formula of Medi-Cal (Royal Canin Prescription in the US) is she on? When I Googled it, it looks like there are a bunch of different formulas. Does she ever get canned food or just the dry?

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What she's on now is the geriatric formula called "mature". The food I'm giving her is dry. Incidentally, a single friend of mine, who's on her way to being that crazy cat lady, tells me I should mix dry and canned.
I should have checked w/the vet before posting. I think what he was proposing is "Now", found at this, their web site. It's probably one that's on that page since that is the store I was at.

Have you told the vet about her voracious appetite? Her meds may need adjusting.

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I've told them time and time again. Their best advice was to give her this kind of food that has a fibre content, which makes them feel full. That's not really what I wanted to hear, because it sounds like it just treats the symptom, and not the problem.
Her meds have been adjusted. Before she was on 2x as much as she is now. I was surprised when the vet told me to half her meds, because she was still hungry. The vet told me that she's gaining weight, and the blood tests indicate that the meds are overcompensating, so we halved it. So what it comes down to is that her meds are where they should be, according to the vet, and so is her weight, but her hunger isn't.

I don't know anything about her thyroid beyond it being hyperactive.

I'd ask the vet for a copy of her results so that you can keep track of her blood work values. Also, has she been checked for worms? Even indoor only cats can get worms from fleas, and a parasite could explain the hunger level.

I can't decipher the Canadian way of figuring the protein levels, LOL. It's a whole different system (and I can't find the info for the American version). But from the ingredients, I would guess that it's fairly low in protein. NOW! Is a pretty good food, not sure as to its suitability for older cats. Someone with a better grasp on senior cat nutrition should pop in soon. But I think that I would switch her to something better if she were mine. It doesn't sound like your vet has a terribly good reason for having her on the prescription food.

And yes, it is best for a cat to have some canned food. The more canned the better, but if cost is a problem, 50/50 canned/dry is fine for most cats. The extra moisture in the canned might help her to feel full longer, too.

You might like to know that my opinion has become uncertain since seeing the vet again. I told her what the pet store guy told me: that vets only get 2 hours of training on nutrition which is given by the pet food companies, which she denied. She also attacked the pet store guy's opinion from a scientific angle, which I can relate to, having formal scientific training myself.

The conclusion she delivered is that there isn't much in the way of scientific data about cat food and that they've asked for it, but it hasn't been forthcoming. I'm not sure what to think now, but I do tend to gravitate towards the judgment of a scientist.

I am dealing with a hyperthyroid cat myself and I am inclined to say you should re-test her... yep, it takes months to get to the correct dosage, and this appetite is a sign of hyper-t.
I have been taking Gracie every 3 weeks for T-4 tests (thyroid blood tests), and I think it will take a while before she stabilizes. Even then, she will have to go in to make sure the dosage is correct, until the vet is secure.
What you are describing is to the T-how she was when she was out of her meds/starting her treatment.
About the argument who knows more about nutrition - the vet or the pet store... hum... tough one... IMHO You can not generalize either. There are vets and vets, there are pet store employees and employees... Personally? I would not trust the health of my cat to the pet store employee - nothing against them - I met a fantastic one once... But really... they are there to sell those foods, and in general, their argument about nutrition class... well... tell them to show you their animal nutrition diploma then .
Tru, a lot of vets do have an agenda, and a lot of them lack on nutrition knowledge, but a lot of them know about nutrition too - and more importantly, they know your cat.
I like doing my own research, then discussing with my vet and getting to a consensus. There is another thing too: Sometimes not the best thing in theory will work for your cat. For example: my cats have special needs and eat prescription food - one of them had her life literally saved by the food. It is Hills prescription. It was Hills - Best ingredients, no... but saved her life...
Lucky, my other cat recently had a hairball and constipation blockage. She had to be force-fed for 3 days, would not eat at all unless with a syringe... The vet told me to try giving her hairball food - I went to the store and bought a bunch of different ones... The one she liked was Purina ProPlan Hairball Control. The best one? Not by far - but guess what? She is eating on her own and doing GREAT on it.
It wouldn't matter for me to try to give her the best food on paper if she wouldn't eat or if it made her sick...
So... When looking for food, remember that your cat is an individual, and what works best for him is what matters most...
There are guidelines you can follow, but I would do some research and discuss it with the vet...
Hope your kitty keeps improving!

Out of the three vets that I've used for my dogs and cats, two of them freely admitted that the nutrition courses that they were taught in vet school were sponsored by pet food companies like Hills, Purina and Royal Canin - basically the companies that make the prescription foods. One of the three vets took extra training after graduating on pet nutrition, their office carried the prescription brands as well as Orijen/Acana.

Now onto Global Pet Foods, I personally know two people that own Global stores and have talked to the owners of two more stores. They go to seminars on pet nutrition fairly often and definitely know what they are talking about. Every Global store can carry whatever foods they want on the higher end stuff. They are known as a Natural Food Store for Pets. When we had Stan and he was quite sick he wouldn't eat anything. I went to the Global we frequent most often and had a talk with the owner about what he might eat. He explained everything to me and definitely knew what he was talking about. He told me why they carry every brand that they do AND why they carry Science Diet. He has personally been to the factory where they make it, said it was extremely clean and that there's something like 14 veterinarians on site there. He did say that it wouldn't be his first choice in foods and that he wasn't even going to carry it, but after the tour of the factory it changed his mind. He still doesn't recommend it most of the time, but there are a lot of pets that do well on it.

Sorry for the little ramble there, I was getting to a point, lol. Anyways, if the guy that you were talking to that worked at the store was anyone but the owner, he may only know partially what he was talking about as they do not get as much training as the actual owners.

If it were me, I would get the cats bloodwork done again, check her blood pressure and then work with both the vet and the pet store to find a happy medium with food.

I personally don't know what your vet is like, but two of ours wanted to put one of my dogs on Medi-Cal Urinary SO for bladder problems even though she is highly allergic to both the grains and the main protein source in the food. As per their advice, I put her on it anyways, her seizures became more active again (she had been in remission from Epilepsy for almost a full year), she had urinary incontinence, she lost a lot of her fur from all the scratching because she was so itchy, and she was puking almost daily. The idea behind the food was to increase her water intake so that she would pee more, but her water intake was fine to begin with and she was peeing more than usual anyways. We put her back onto her raw diet without telling the vet (neither of those vets agreed with it and said that we'd end up killing her) and she has been fine since. Those two vets at the time were both busy "high end" clinics, the $50-60 exam fee covered all of about 10 minutes of being with the pet (including doing shots) and they rarely gave a full answer if you asked them questions. We switched vets when Sadie developed her 10th (yes 10th!) UTI in under 4 years, they actually listened to me and checked her out fully. They agreed that she has an innie vulva and gave me tips on how to keep her clean AND they did the xrays that I had been begging for at the other two vets and found that she had 3 large bladder stones. They could feel them in her bladder just by doing a physical exam and said that the other vets should have felt them as well.

Anyways, sorry about that part of the rant too. Just trying to show how even though a vet can have your animals best interest at heart and can have the chart infront of them that tells them everything about your pet, only YOU really know your pet and what they're normally like.

After getting the bloodwork and blood pressure tested, if everything comes back normal, I would get a few samples from the store and mix it with her current food for a few days. If you notice that she's becoming less ravenous then you may have found your solution.

I'm sorry but I don't see how much you are feeding her and how often.

Originally Posted by Eggie O'Geggie

The pet store guy points out that, unlike him, vets can be good at treating a thyroid, but know little about nutrition, and only get 2 hours of training for it, which is given by the pet food companies.

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I wonder where he got that particular number from? Two hours? I did a year of animal science last year (preliminary degree for people who didn't score highly enough at school to get into Veterinary Science) and in our units on animal body systems we spent about a month on the digestive system, and loads of time on diet for lots of different types of animals... and that was just as a precursor to the actual veterinary degree.

Also, in the internships I did at various vet practices they looked at the information and free samples and marketing goods handed out by companies wanting to sell their products as... well, ways to help their clients who are not doing very well financially but need the products.

I would go back to the vet and tell them what the dude in the pet store said, see what he thinks. Plus, there are loads of people who know what they're talking about here on TCS. You might want to hit up the_food_lady - she posted some excellent advice on my thread about Mackerel, and I'm sure she wouldn't mind a polite question.

Hope that helps!

For starters, wet food is more filling, lower calorie, and better calories since it requires less fillers and preservatives than dry and should be part of your cats diet as cats generally have a low thirst drive, with natural hunters getting most of their required moisture from their kills.

Wet food is expensive and inconvenient though, so I feed both.

For the dry, my suggestion would be to get an automatic feeder to feed dry at specific times of the day in small portions, and/or get a food dispenser ball put somewhere that it doesn't roll all over the house preferably not on carpet.

The automatic feeder can be set to dispense 1/4 cup or more up to three times a day (no accurate control, so exact amount depends on kibble size but is in my experience very consistent with evenly sized kibble and works great using Blue's Wilderness at least). Add one or two wet meals, and you've got plenty of little numnums to keep a cat satiated. The Petmate is battery powered (goes about 6mnths on a charge) and in my experience just wedging a chopstick by the outlet between the bowl and the housing (takes 1 second) stops a smart cat from getting their paw in there. I put it under the cat tree so its out of the way and prevents the cats from jumping on it to knock it over. Took cats a week to figure out its schedule, and hang out there within about 30mins of feeding.


The ball is cheaper and self-explanatory, you just scoop it into the dry, twist it to the small opening size (large is just for training), and cat pushes it around which causes kibble to fall out and it can take an hour or so to finish and when you eat slower you feel more full as we all know.

I found this site because I have the same problem as u are having? my cat is on thyroid meds but his appetite is ravenous! He is never satisfied! I really don't know what to do! I was thinking of trying y/d to see if this food would help with his appetite! but the ingredients are pretty awful!

Kimmi, welcome to TCS. This thread is several years old, the people that were posting here may not still be actively on the site.

Have you had follow up blood work done to ensure her numbers are within normal range and being properly controlled by the medication?

There are a lot of problems with the y/d food. You can read about it here: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/245059/experience-with-hills-prescription-y-d

And alternative management methods here: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/267936/...ts-on-the-new-hills-y-d-hyperthyroid-cat-food


Diets for hyperthyroid cats - this is provided by the top veterinary endocrinologist in the U.S. (the man who discovered the condition of hyper-t in cats, Dr. Mark E. Peterson) http://endocrinevet.blogspot.com/2011/11/optimal-protein-requirements-for-older.html

And more on hyperthyroidism by another vet, Dr. Lisa Pierson: http://www.catinfo.org/?link=felinehyperthyroidism

Are you feeding a canned diet that is high protein, low carb (no grains, few to no starches), where the protein is provided by animals, not peas or something? Because that may help.

Dr. Pierson has a food list that helps people identify canned foods that are high protein, low carb on a dry matter basis (the center column). It doesn't provide the ingredients, but it's a good starting point. http://www.catinfo.org/?link=cannedfoods

Well actually I am still in the middle of leveling him. He was misdiagnosed diorite bloodwork for having allergies, the symptom at the time was a small sore and hair loss on his front legs. After yearly bloodwork he still remained undiagnosed for two years until another sign appeared , the ravenous appetite. I currently feed him soulistic which is made by weruva , exclusively for petco.it has white meat chicken breast. In a clear gel besides vitamins that is the only ing.besides sunflower oil and locust bean gum , whatever that is! I also boil a whole chicken for him weekly and add extra meat to the food as well. He is on 3/4 of a 2.5 mg methimizole 2x a day. He was started out on 5mg 2x then blood then lowered to 2.5mg 2x a day, then more blood, now the dose I mentioned in the beginning! Hope this is the one ! However most of his front leg hair has returned and no more weight loss, which wasn't a lot anyway , but still the RAVENOUS appetite persists. I feed him wet only the 5.5 oz can which he gets a half can 3x a day and extra chicken. Also I add water to his wet food as well to make sure he drinks enough.he also gets digestive enzyme and supplement powder. Think that's all! He is 13 years old by the way. Last bloodwork came back all in normal range except for the t4 count which was borderline high is what they had said but upon further testing they had found it to be more outta balance than borderline, thus the meds! What is bothering me is at night he seems to not want to tolerate the meds n throws it and his dinner up! Am going to try to wait couple hours between pill n feed n see what I get, this is a new thing. Acting just fine tho.

Don't ask me what I was trying to write that came out diorite! Crazy spell check!

Carolina said:

I am dealing with a hyperthyroid cat myself and I am inclined to say you should re-test her... yep, it takes months to get to the correct dosage, and this appetite is a sign of hyper-t.

I have been taking Gracie every 3 weeks for T-4 tests (thyroid blood tests), and I think it will take a while before she stabilizes. Even then, she will have to go in to make sure the dosage is correct, until the vet is secure.

What you are describing is to the T-how she was when she was out of her meds/starting her treatment.

About the argument who knows more about nutrition - the vet or the pet store... hum... tough one... IMHO You can not generalize either. There are vets and vets, there are pet store employees and employees... Personally? I would not trust the health of my cat to the pet store employee - nothing against them - I met a fantastic one once... But really... they are there to sell those foods, and in general, their argument about nutrition class... well... tell them to show you their animal nutrition diploma then

.

Tru, a lot of vets do have an agenda, and a lot of them lack on nutrition knowledge, but a lot of them know about nutrition too - and more importantly, they know your cat.

I like doing my own research, then discussing with my vet and getting to a consensus. There is another thing too: Sometimes not the best thing in theory will work for your cat. For example: my cats have special needs and eat prescription food - one of them had her life literally saved by the food. It is Hills prescription. It was Hills - Best ingredients, no... but saved her life...

Lucky, my other cat recently had a hairball and constipation blockage. She had to be force-fed for 3 days, would not eat at all unless with a syringe... The vet told me to try giving her hairball food - I went to the store and bought a bunch of different ones... The one she liked was Purina ProPlan Hairball Control. The best one? Not by far - but guess what? She is eating on her own and doing GREAT on it.

It wouldn't matter for me to try to give her the best food on paper if she wouldn't eat or if it made her sick...

So... When looking for food, remember that your cat is an individual, and what works best for him is what matters most...

There are guidelines you can follow, but I would do some research and discuss it with the vet...

Hope your kitty keeps improving!

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Oh Gawwwwd May I vomit a little at my own post Gotta love when old posts like these show up,........ and SO much happened since then! Thank Goodness they DO show up so we can say I was SO wrong :doh3:

LDG said:

Kimmi, welcome to TCS. This thread is several years old, the people that were posting here may not still be actively on the site.

Have you had follow up blood work done to ensure her numbers are within normal range and being properly controlled by the medication?

There are a lot of problems with the y/d food. You can read about it here: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/245059/experience-with-hills-prescription-y-d

And alternative management methods here: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/267936/...ts-on-the-new-hills-y-d-hyperthyroid-cat-food


Diets for hyperthyroid cats - this is provided by the top veterinary endocrinologist in the U.S. (the man who discovered the condition of hyper-t in cats, Dr. Mark E. Peterson) http://endocrinevet.blogspot.com/2011/11/optimal-protein-requirements-for-older.html

And more on hyperthyroidism by another vet, Dr. Lisa Pierson: http://www.catinfo.org/?link=felinehyperthyroidism

Are you feeding a canned diet that is high protein, low carb (no grains, few to no starches), where the protein is provided by animals, not peas or something? Because that may help.

Dr. Pierson has a food list that helps people identify canned foods that are high protein, low carb on a dry matter basis (the center column). It doesn't provide the ingredients, but it's a good starting point. http://www.catinfo.org/?link=cannedfoods

Click to expand...

a SOUND to what ldg Says!! :nod:

I have figured out why he is throwing up his evening meds n meal . I found he must eat a the same time the meds are given. I was giving the pill then waiting couple hours then feeding but he started throwing up so I went back to giving both at once and no more vomit, thank God for small favors. I read about the y/d and seems the consensus says the cats do not like it much. Guess I will stay with the soulistic food and the pills!

I'm so glad you figured out the problem!

Yes, this is a much better solution.