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One cat grooming the other- what does it mean?

post #1 of 21
2/14/11 at 2:44pm
Thread Starter 
My BF wants me to ask about Genever and Dororthy. You may have seen pics I posted of Genever giving Dorothy a face wash. Well, that happens kind of a lot. But it's always Genever grooming Dot's face. Never Dorothy grooming Genever. And the way it happens is Genever will be lying down, and Dot will come up to her, and G-cat will start licking. And they never just stop and settle in for a nap, it always ends with one of them, usually Dorothy, slapping the other and a bit of a hiss with the ears back, staring at each other for a minute or so before one runs off.

Does it mean one cat is showing dominance? If so, which one? Just curious...
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post #2 of 21
2/14/11 at 5:42pm
Skitter and Doola are like that too, except it's Skitter that is always giving Doola a bath. When Doola tries to clean Skitter, Skitter gets all funny and a wrestling match usually ensues... not sure why it happens but it does, so I can't really answer your question, except to say, it seems normal?
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post #3 of 21
2/14/11 at 5:50pm
Grooming is a sign of affection. But that doesn't mean its always well received by the other party, and when annoyed by invasion of personal space can result in a slap.

Buttercup always grooms Wesley, especially if she can hear him purring when I am petting him, but Wesley likes it adjusts his face and what not to get a good cleaning. He's selfish though and rarely returns the favor and then only briefly... typical guy, huh?
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post #4 of 21
2/14/11 at 5:54pm
Thanks for the tip about affection BTW- I love the name of your cats, you must like the movie?
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post #5 of 21
2/14/11 at 7:20pm
Your instinct of it being a show of dominace is correct. Dorothy wants to be accepted and friendly, Genever is being friendly - but a bit bullying. She must be pushing Dorothy's comfort level and thats what upsets her. Does Genever ever try to hold her still or bit her neck?

For the most part, leave them to settle it themselves.
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post #6 of 21
2/14/11 at 7:58pm
I think grooming can be sweet but it can also be a dominance thing. With Sissy, she always licked Blue like she was his mommy and it was sweet. When Blue attempted to groom HER, she would tolerate it for a bit and then hiss at him. He would bite her neck, she would smack him and hiss, and then they would seperate. The next time I would see them laying together, she would be grooming him again. LOL She was definitely an Alpha cat and he is definitely my little passive, aggressive Omega.
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post #7 of 21
2/14/11 at 10:05pm
Memphis is ALWAYS the one to groom Tails, but I think that's more of a looking after thing, since he's been doing it since Tails got here at 8 weeks. Sometimes Memphis grooms Tails backwards when Tails is being rambunctious, and I believe that is showing dominance. So I've seen both affection and dominance.
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post #8 of 21
2/15/11 at 7:09am
Your two girls LOVE eachother and totally trust eachother. It is called Allogrooming and is a sign of complete love and trust. I am so glad for you that Genever and Dorothy have become such great friends.
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post #9 of 21
2/15/11 at 7:51am
I've wondered this myself. A few years ago, we had two boys - Mickey & Dusty - best buddies, and the only grooming escalated into play-biting and chasing.

Enter the feral female, Scaredy, who made the boys' lives pure h*@# for the first few months. She chased Mickey constantly, clearly with the intent to bite his behind and/or kill him.

Now, a couple of CALM years later, Mickey will go directly to her when he wants his face washed. And she washes his face like he's her kitten. But only his face. She and Dusty still don't want anything to do with each other.

I do not understand why she now mothers a cat she once despised and wanted dead.
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post #10 of 21
2/15/11 at 8:37am
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the replies.. I tried to post this reply with some pics showing it, but photobucket froze everything, so I'm going to type, and post pics next so I don't lose everything again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducman69 View Post
Buttercup always grooms Wesley, especially if she can hear him purring when I am petting him, but Wesley likes it adjusts his face and what not to get a good cleaning. He's selfish though and rarely returns the favor and then only briefly... typical guy, huh?
Well Dorothy kind of does the same thing, jumping up on the sofa or chair with Genever, putting her face in G's face, leaning in, adusting, turning her head to get cleaned all over. And it's just the face. And Dorothy never grooms Genever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by strange_wings View Post
Your instinct of it being a show of dominace is correct. Dorothy wants to be accepted and friendly, Genever is being friendly - but a bit bullying. She must be pushing Dorothy's comfort level and thats what upsets her. Does Genever ever try to hold her still or bit her neck?

For the most part, leave them to settle it themselves.
I don't get in the middle of them, when there's a spat after some face grooming, it never lasts long, I wouldn't even call it a fight. Genever does usually put a paw on Dot, but she puts a paw on BF and I when she grooms us too, and it's not hard, like it doesn't feel or look like she's really HOLDING Dot down. Again, I'll post pics in a minute.. Also, I've never seen Genever bite Dorothy's neck during these face wash sessions, but I don't watch every second of every groom, so maybe it happens, who knows.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Feralvr View Post
Your two girls LOVE eachother and totally trust eachother. It is called Allogrooming and is a sign of complete love and trust. I am so glad for you that Genever and Dorothy have become such great friends.
I do think they are definitely getting along, I don't know if they love each other, but I can tell they don't hate each other. They do play, and nap together sometimes. They also play fight, and also what I think is real fighting sometimes, when they make terrible noises.. I'm not sure it's pure social grooming though, because why doesn't Dorothy reciprocate? I have never seen Dot groom Genever.

For what it's worth, Dot's never licked BF or I either, while Genever often gives quick kitty kiss licks, and also settles in for a really hard rough sandpapery groom of our arms or hands.. or heads... for however long we can last before it just hurts too much.
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post #11 of 21
2/15/11 at 8:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkMavis View Post
I'm not sure it's pure social grooming though, because why doesn't Dorothy reciprocate? I have never seen Dot groom Genever.
Because Dorothy is being submissive (as much as a cat is) to Genever. Genever would likely smack Dorothy across the head if she tried to groom her. It's not truly mutual in that sense. Genever is putting HER scent all over Dorothy. Dorothy is accepting this and it helps keep the peace. They know where they stand with each other. (but as I said before, Dorothy has her limits)

This happens in my house and it's very very clear cut. Tomas grooms everyone (but Siri, no cat touches Siri) but only accepts grooming back from Sho. Tomas is above everyone else, except Sho. (again, Siri's in a grey area there) He'll swat and nip anyone who tries to groom him. I joke that he mothers the other cats, but in a way that is true - a mother cat would be dominate over her kittens.
Now my three sibling kittens truly mutual groom. They share grooming equally. No one swats or pushes the other around. The kittens being a bit lower in the hierarchy love the big cats to groom on them, especially Tomas and Sho. It helps cement them into the group and provides comfort.

So yes, it serves a social purpose. There's some affection there, but it's not simple outright sharing of affection - there's a bit more to it.

It's just like how litter box use order and who buries and who doesn't can have social meaning in a multicat home. It seems something simple to us, but there's more there to a cat.
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post #12 of 21
2/15/11 at 8:55am
My Saki does this to Isis. Saki will go up to Isis and try to groom her head, and Isis will take a few licks, and then jerk back and smack Saki. so this is Saki trying to assert dominance and Isis not taking it?

Isis never grooms Saki, she will only groom us humans, and Saki has never tried grooming me or the DH (to my knowledge), just Isis and my sister. no one has tried grooming the bunnies, although they demand it from them all the time!
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post #13 of 21
2/15/11 at 9:01am
Thread Starter 
Animal behavior really is interesting. My mom's still got Polly in PA, who is an old lady now and set in her routines which were mostly my mom's routines anyway, so I didn't want to bring her to CA with me when I moved 4 years ago.. Anyway, we also had Cleo for about 8-9 years before she got very sick and passed, we got Cleo 3-4 years after getting Polly. (my mind is blanking on the exact years. GRR!) They hardly ever interacted. They didn't play, they didn't fight, they didn't groom, they didn't cuddle. I do have 1 pic of them lying next to each other, but that was when Cleo was sick, and Polly looks pissed off. So even though I have lived with 2 cats before, I didn't get to experience any of the goings on that I'm experiencing now with Genever and Dorothy. It's all new to me!

So anyway, here's a few which I've posted before, but it shows Dot really going for it, and you can see Genever's paw on Dot, but not on top of her, more like on her side?






Even in this one, Genever was doing the grooming, not Dorothy, even though it looks the opposite:


And then when Dorothy had enough:
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post #14 of 21
2/15/11 at 9:02am
Saki and Isis may not be so clear as to who is in charge. You'd have to look at other behaviors.

I have one who is 8 (was 5 at the time) and another who is ~4 (was ~2 at the time). Both being adult male cats and not really sure how to behave towards each other when they were introduced, and still now, they do stuff like that. Like neither one really knows quite where to place the other one and how to react. Any attempt from one to the other at grooming doesn't go well.. Though they get along and can be found sitting together and laying side by side on the bed,


ETA: looks just like what happens with Tanna and Tomas. This is good, btw, so do think it isn't. Likely Genever flea bites or tries to groom Dorothy's ears sometimes. Some cats take a bit of offense as that gets a bit too personal.
Oh, and Dorothy looks just like my MewMew, even down to the body shape, ears, and grumpy face!
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post #15 of 21
2/15/11 at 9:12am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by strange_wings View Post
ETA: looks just like what happens with Tanna and Tomas. This is good, btw, so do think it isn't. Likely Genever flea bites or tries to groom Dorothy's ears sometimes. Some cats take a bit of offense as that gets a bit too personal.
Oh, and Dorothy looks just like my MewMew, even down to the body shape, ears, and grumpy face!
Really? MewMew has a small head and pointy Batman ears? Cute! That grumpy face is just a face, by the way. Dot's really a sweetie. We got lucky at the shelter for the 2nd time!!

I wish Genever would clean out Dorothy's ears (), she's got some dark gunk in there. When she goes for her next Thyroid blood test in a week or so, I'm going to mention it to the vet. I'm guessing it's not ear mites because she doesn't scratch much, but her ears do twitch a lot, so maybe. I will find out soon anyway.
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post #16 of 21
2/15/11 at 9:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkMavis View Post
Really? MewMew has a small head and pointy Batman ears? Cute! That grumpy face is just a face, by the way. Dot's really a sweetie. We got lucky at the shelter for the 2nd time!!

I wish Genever would clean out Dorothy's ears (), she's got some dark gunk in there. When she goes for her next Thyroid blood test in a week or so, I'm going to mention it to the vet. I'm guessing it's not ear mites because she doesn't scratch much, but her ears do twitch a lot, so maybe. I will find out soon anyway.
Yes, MewMew has tiny ears and a small head. Most of the time she's a sweetheart, too. But she's also a brat and she can make the grumpiest fussiest girl kitty face. I assure you, her face isn't stuck that way either.

Since she came from a shelter it could be mites. Do you use Revolution on both of them, already? If so, it's not mites, and if not - it could be. But with health issues I'm inclined to believe it's either an infection or an allergy. I hope the vet can get that cleared up for her.
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post #17 of 21
2/15/11 at 9:41am
Thread Starter 
I use Advantage on both of them, Dorothy got her first dose last week when it was time for Genever's. it was funny, Dorothy didn't even flinch when I put it on her, and didn't even seem to notice I did anything. When I do Genever, she goes nuts, runs away from me, and spends ages with her neck twisted around, trying to lick it off.

With that thinking, maybe Genever is also more into being clean than Dorothy is? She spends quite a bit of time grooming herself, while Dorothy just bathes now and then. Interesting.....
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post #18 of 21
2/15/11 at 10:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkMavis View Post
With that thinking, maybe Genever is also more into being clean than Dorothy is? She spends quite a bit of time grooming herself, while Dorothy just bathes now and then. Interesting.....
Probably to some degree. If Dorothy smells like she needs a grooming Genever likely feels that she needs to take care of it. Chances are Dorothy is like my Tanna, and would rather have someone else do it for her anyways.

If it is ear mites, Advantage won't take care of them. And honestly, while it sounds gross, they're easier to deal with than a chronic infection so I almost hope that's what Dorothy has - if it is, Genever needs to be treated, too, especially since she grooms Dorothy.

All in all, though, I'd say you're lucky that your girls get along. I wish I had that much luck! I really want my MewMew in the house but she's untrusting of other cats (aside from her yard mate Boo, a 13lb+ male cat that she pushes around) and I can only imagine the how she, Siri, and Tanna will not get along - they're all headstrong.
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post #19 of 21
2/15/11 at 2:31pm
Grooming is a sign of affection. Maybe some cats need it more than others? Midnight is constantly grooming Luna. He over does it. She's had enough pushes him away. He'll hold her down and groom her more. It turns into a fight, and we usually have to break it up. We think maybe because Midnight was away from his mother so young that he needs to have that grooming affection more than Luna?
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post #20 of 21
2/20/11 at 2:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feralvr View Post
Your two girls LOVE eachother and totally trust eachother. It is called Allogrooming and is a sign of complete love and trust. I am so glad for you that Genever and Dorothy have become such great friends.


Quote:
I'm not sure it's pure social grooming though, because why doesn't Dorothy reciprocate? I have never seen Dot groom Genever
Some cats just aren't groomers. Ootay and Bibbs used to wash Tolly's face all the time, but he never reciprocated. Ootay would lick for as long as they both stayed awake. Bibbs would lick, then lower her head for Tolly to reciprocate and when he didn't she would lick and wait again, and when he didn't again, she would swat him or bonk him and stomp off.

When Dot swats she's just telling Genever she's had enough. Look at her face in those pictures, you can tell she loves it.

It's wonderful how Dot and Genever became such good friends so fast. Dot knew what she was doing when she Chose you guys.
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post #21 of 21
2/20/11 at 3:08pm
Interesting information shared, thought I already knew, but learned some new things!
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