Help!! Walter is peeing now! - Page 2

Actually, the advice to clean up the pee IS part of how to stop the behavior. It is the smell that continues to encourage him to go out of the box. It is a circular problem. In order to STOP the peeing out of the box, when it is not a medical problem, you must properly clean any existing areas that have been soiled. That is first and foremost!

The other things to do all relate to the number of boxes, their placement, the litter used, identifying stress triggers - but we KNOW what happened. Sebastian came and left, he peed, and the smell is not gone. And now Walter's stressed and agitated. You didn't recently change food or litter, and he's fine with the boxes and the set up you had, and it's not medical.

So the ONLY thing that changed is that now there is the smell of Sebastian's pee - and Walter keeps peeing on those places. Unless I missed something, and he's peeing other spots now too? I thought I read he was peeing on the bean bag and the blanket.

So to get him to stop, you must properly clean up the smell. That IS the advice on what to do. Getting rid of the smell should get rid of the inappropriate peeing! Further, we also denied access to any place where pee had happened by covering it with aluminum foil. Others use an upside down box or laundry basket (our cats don't like the foil). AND spraying the foil/basket whatever with the feliway.

But he needs to be confined for a few days while you take the time you need to get rid of the smell - completely. And apart from a good enzyme cleaner used properly, you MUST let it air dry. That is CRITICAL to the process. There is no way to speed it up.

I do think you should use a black light to ensure you haven't missed any spots. If you get a small handheld one, hold it about 6" from the floor, and scour your home. Pee will show up as an orange splotch.

Also, you may think it's not worth it to use the cat attract. But Carolina provided a link to a coupon or rebate so your first bag is FREE. And yes, he WAS using the litter box just fine. NOW HE ISN'T. Cat Attract does not need to be your litter of choice and a long term fix. It is being suggested as a short term aid. IT REALLY MAKES A DIFFERENCE. Because you haven't dealt with this before, you can't understand why we're pushing it. But for those of us that have dealt with this before, we are shouting - you want to sell your home, and you want a quick fix? Get the Cat Attract Litter.

Again, this is part of the solution. Re-attracting the cat to the litter box.

Kara,
I am not sure why you feel you are being patronized, and I am truly sorry you feel this way... All the advices given are sound, please consider them carefully... Taking care of the issue by cleaning, providing a litterbox with cat attract, taking care of the stress, etc. is fixing the situation... I know sometimes we want to hear a solution that is more in line with what we need, our budget, our time frame, our current life situation, etc, but when it comes to cats, it doesn't work like that... There are things you must do to solve the problem, which clearly you do want to solve the problem, and those things are proven and effective...
These people here have been through it, done it and gotten out of it successfully, at least most of the ones giving you advices have...
So please, don't think we are patronizing you... We are just trying to help you... It is not our cats who are peeing out of the box... But here we are, taking the time to write long posts with everything we have done in the past that have worked for us, and letting you know what the problems were, so that you can avoid those triggers.
All we are doing is trying to help...
Cat attract litter is not just a litter and it helps a LOT. Cleaning with an enzyme cleaner is absolutely essential, in every spot that has been peed on... Reducing stress with feliway is highly recommended, and if push comes to shove, confinement might do the trick...

Kara, I have read every single word of all your posts you haven't read my replies or anyone else's by the sounds of it everyone here has tried to help, suggesting the vet is the first reply your going to get because uti's can come on literally over night speaking from first hand experience, I do not think your a liar at all!!

You need the enzyme cleaner to clean where you know he is pee'ing then a black light to double check at the very least if you can't get the litter then confine him for a couple of days so he knows the only pave to go is the litterbox

Really??? I see multiple people that posted prior to Feralvr that gave you the exact same advice she did. People explained to you in detail that you need enzyme cleaner and which ones to buy and that nothing else would work. You then asked if bleach would work. Perhaps a few members didn't read every post, specifically about Walter going to a vet, but you obviously haven't either, or you are just ignoring the advice. At this point the members that have given you excellent advice are getting frustrated, and I can't blame them.

My brother is having similar problems with his dog and won't listen to the same advice being given here and instead is thinking of bring his dog to the shelter. I'm frustrated with him also.

...and before you say we don't understand how stressful it is having a cat urinate in inappropriate places when you have an offer on your house and are waiting to close, I had a sick cat that was never using the litterbox with my house on the market and no offer on the table and no TCS to get advice from. You are in a better situation than I was.

You've been given excellent advice, please listen and try the suggestions.

I'll come out and say it---enzyme cleaners are ineffective! PERIOD! (At least in my experience.) Enzymes are activated by moisture and just how much activity will be left in a bottle of enzymes that has been sitting on the store shelf for weeks or more.

The only thing I've found that works is my magic pee removing recipe:

2 cups hydrogen peroxide
2 teaspoons baking soda
2 DROPS liquid dish soap

Mix and saturate the affected item. It really works!

As for stopping the continuing behavior, I highly recommend Prozac. It worked for my Ziggy and the sooner you address the behavior, the less chance it will become chronic. Screaming, grabbing the cat and locking him away is not very helpful, especially in a shy kitty like Walter. He needs to feel at ease and if it takes a chemical cocktail, so be it if the problem is fixed.

Good luck...try to relax.

C

Callie, I'm sorry, but I really think it's way to early for Kara to consider using something like prozac - or any medication alternative. I think saying "the sooner you address the behavior, the less chance it will become chronic" is alarmist. So many have had kitties with peeing problems that have continued for months and were then able to resolve it successfully without the use of drugs. Gary and I did resort to using Elavil (amytriptaline) to help break Spooky's cycle of peeing... but I think pursuing the route of using drugs to curb inappropriate peeing before all (or basically any) other options have been tried is really premature. Kara hasn't even gotten rid of the pee smell yet to see what happens, and that will probably solve the problem.

From my understanding, Walter's peeing where Sebastian was, and the scent of the pee isn't gone yet. That is likely the cause of the problem, and simply removing the smell should break the cycle.

I think at a minimum that should be tried (hopefully in combination with using Cat Attract for a week or maybe two) before exploring the drug option.

Yes, locking him up isn't a great idea. We certainly never did it, but Kara's freaking out, so for everyone's sanity over there, I think keeping him confined while she gets rid of the pee smell to break the peeing-out-of-the-box cycle is important to help reduce the stress levels.

Certainly shouting at him is definitely not going to help (and actually contributes to an ongoing problem), but if they're stressed and can't control themselves, then keeping Walter in the bathroom temporarily is the best option. I don't think they'll need to keep him in there for long.

You are so right about the issue re: active enzymes. That's another reason it's important to buy a quality enzyme cleaner.

But there is a strong, legitimate, and chemically important reason to use enzyme cleaners. AJ posted a link to an article that explained it in general terms, but if anyone's interested, here's more detail on why an enzyme cleaner is so important, and home-made mixtures or other cleaners won't solve the problem long term (at least to a kitty's nose). The solution may work better than some enzyme cleaners like Nature's Miracle - temporarily. (And Kara may not care that it's a temporary fix as hopefully they're selling their home soon). But it works only as long as there isn't an issue with humidity. I will explain.

I have done a lot of research on this issue. Vinegar neutralizes the odor, and hydrogen peroxide is 30% more oxidizing than chlorine - but cat pee is composed of things that REQUIRE enzymes to break down the chemical bonds. Cat pee is composed of:

Urea
Urobilin/Urobilinogin
Uric Acid
Sodium
Other electrolytes
Creatinine
Pheremones
Bacteria - typically 5 different strains.

When cat urine dries, the urea gets broken down by the bacteria. This is what makes it smell like ammonia. As it decomposes further, it releases thiols that make the odor worse. (It is the thiols in skunk spray that make it SO difficult to remove the smell of skunk spray).

The urea and urobilin/urobilogin are not hard to clean. Urea is water soluble, and urobilin is basically the pigment that causes the color. A traditional household or carpet cleaner will deal with these. And this is why hydrogen peroxide and vinegar will appear to be effective at eliminating the problem.

The problem is the uric acid. Uric acid is insoluble and bonds tightly to whatever surface it touches, and the sodium in the urine compounds the problem.

The vinegar and hydrogen peroxide do not - are not chemically capable of - removing the uric acid. It temporarily makes the smell go away, because it does clean up everything else. But when exposed to humidity, the sodium causes the uric acid crystals to reform - and they start to release the smell again. Not always to the human nose, but the cats can smell it.

Because of the uric acid/sodium, cat pee has a half-life of six years. !!!!!!!

So the ONLY thing that will break down the uric acid to PERMANENTLY remove the smell is an enzyme cleaner.

The problem is that not all enzyme cleaners are equally effective. Good ones are expensive. Cheap ones will work - but need to be reapplied over and over (and probably end up costing as much as the expensive enzyme cleaners).

Having dealt with three different males blocking numerous times, and Spooky peeing outside of the box for months, we've used many solutions, cleaners, and enzyme cleaners. Nok Out works. I haven't used Anti-Icky poo, but I understand it is the "same class" of enzyme cleaner.

Of course ANY cleaner needs to be used properly. Unfortunately, Kara was not using the cleaner properly. "Spraying" doesn't work. DOUSING, POURING, and SOAKING are required.

Nok Out: http://www.nokout.com
Anti-Icky Poo: http://www.catfaeries.com

If you cannot afford Cat Attract Litter you may not be able to afford Feliway either as it can be very pricey.

Good advice from everyone re cleaning with the enzyme cleaner. Hope it works for you.

My one other suggestion is Cat Attract additive rather than litter - you just sprinkle it into your existing litter, and it's cheaper than the litter.

I know Walter is using the litter most of the time, but it, along with using a black light and enzyme cleaner for existing spots, can fix the problem, and help him use the litter box 100% of the time.

I'm guessing you guys are pretty stressed right now with the sale, and probably also starting to pack, or at least organise and move stuff about. Walter may be picking on your stress, and having things move around, which is exacerbating his post-Sebastian stress, and still peeing in Sebastian's spots that he can still detect.

I was thinking that too or if you really need a cheap idea you can try cat nip however! if your cats eats cat nip you don't want to add it to the litter because they'll accidentally eat litter along with it. Tread lightly here but in a seriously tight fix you can use it with caution and see if it helps out.

Best advice in this post. Of course your alpha is peeing on the chair and the blanket. The cat's old urine scent is still there- an invader in the home- covering it with his scent means all is well again and he is in control. No UTI just basic cat instinct.

Kara, did any of this advice help? Were you able to solve the problem?