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*I* knew this years ago: 4 Years of College Isn't for Everyone, Harvard study says

post #1 of 20
2/6/11 at 9:03pm
Thread Starter 
From February 2011:

Harvard study says: Four Years of College Isn't for Everyone

I saw it coming.

Quote:
The “college for all” movement has produced only incremental gains as other nations leapfrog the United States, and the country is failing to prepare millions of young people to become employable adults...
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post #2 of 20
2/7/11 at 10:38am
Two years of college isn't for everyone either. Tuition here, is the highest in Canada. Sure, I coulda got a student loan and went...then spent half my adult life paying it off. Without scholarships, it isn't easy. At least high school only cost $45 for a year.
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post #3 of 20
2/7/11 at 10:56am
I'm a wee bit confused from reading the quote from the paragraph that was cited in the opening post. Is it the country's responsibility to make sure you become employable as an adult or is it your own responsibility to make yourself employable as an adult? Or are they pointing the finger at the higher educational system as a whole?

I do agree about occupational programs being a good way to help prepare someone for a job in a particular field or trade. I only have two terms left at Cincinnati State Technical & Community College before I move on to pursue my BA, but attendance there has been booming since the economy went into the toilet. That said, having a degree, whether it is a two year, four year, or graduate, doesn't guarantee someone a job, and it's even more difficult when employment is scarce.
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post #4 of 20
2/7/11 at 2:24pm
College isn't for everyone, but then again neither is k-12

Seriously though there are some college courses that people must take, that they are never going to use in their work (or in every day) life.
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post #5 of 20
2/7/11 at 2:51pm
This is very true. I have so many friends from college who got their four year degrees in biology, and now they are having a heck of a hard time finding jobs. While thinking in retrospect, they regret not doing a 2 year degree in nursing, a field where it's much easier to get a job, and the pay is about the same...
Even I regret it at times, because I wasted so much time in college. I'm about to finish my four year degree in history, and I want to either be a lawyer or work as a paralegal, but to be a paralegal, you don't need a four year degree but rather a certificate that you can get for a lot less time. So if I decide not to be a lawyer, my four years at college were wasted...
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post #6 of 20
2/7/11 at 3:24pm
For those coming out of college but needing more skills to be employable there are some government options. There's one (and I'm not home atm so I can't link to it) that pays people to help manage different programs in communities. I think the requisite is that you work for them for at least a year. Those with biology degrees should also check out options for government jobs.


And I do agree that 4 years isn't for everyone, nor is it wise to push everyone into it. Every country relies on skilled labor. Without them we get no resources, nothing gets built, and nothing gets fixed.
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post #7 of 20
2/7/11 at 3:35pm
A 4yr degree is not everything, but it helps young people get a job that otherwise would be very unattractive having no work experience.

A degree tells me that this person has the capability to learn and the work ethic necessary to get his degree and at least some training hopefully in the field he is applying for so that you don't have to completely start from scratch.

Once you have a job, a degree on your resume also removes the ceiling that would otherwise often cause others to surpass you climbing the ladder.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Essayons89 View Post
I'm a wee bit confused from reading the quote from the paragraph that was cited in the opening post. Is it the country's responsibility to make sure you become employable as an adult or is it your own responsibility to make yourself employable as an adult?
This is America.

Everything is someone else's fault, generally a broad faceless entity like "the education system" or "corporate America", and you deserve your entitlements. Gimmee!
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post #8 of 20
2/7/11 at 3:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Essayons89 View Post
I'm a wee bit confused from reading the quote from the paragraph that was cited in the opening post. Is it the country's responsibility to make sure you become employable as an adult or is it your own responsibility to make yourself employable as an adult? Or are they pointing the finger at the higher educational system as a whole?

I do agree about occupational programs being a good way to help prepare someone for a job in a particular field or trade. I only have two terms left at Cincinnati State Technical & Community College before I move on to pursue my BA, but attendance there has been booming since the economy went into the toilet. That said, having a degree, whether it is a two year, four year, or graduate, doesn't guarantee someone a job, and it's even more difficult when employment is scarce.
From the link in the OP, the first paragraph should have been quoted for clarity. It is:

Quote:
The U.S. is focusing too much attention on helping students pursue four-year college degrees, when two-year and occupational programs may better prepare them for the job market, a Harvard University report said
.
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post #9 of 20
2/7/11 at 4:42pm
And it took the brains at Harvard how many years and how much money in government grants to figure this out????

This is common sense. Something a lot of people in this country very seriously lack. Not everyone can be a doctor or lawyer. We need mechanics too. Actually, IMO, we have a great need for good mechanics so that we aren't basically forced to go to a dealership for even basic services because of the lack of skilled tradesmen in the workplace.

We've recently put employment ads on Craigslist for engineers. You would be surprised at how many resumes we've received from people with Masters Degrees in Engineering and not one day of practical experience in the workplace. They couldn't get a job when they graduated with a BS so they stayed in school instead of getting in the workforce any place they could. Now they think they deserve double the salary.

Seriously people...spending more time in school doesn't make you worth more in the workplace! Sometimes less really is more. Less schooling and more experience is usually much more valuable than more theoretical knowledge and less practical experience.
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post #10 of 20
2/8/11 at 5:07pm
I agree with you, Heidi. Schooling is only a part of the process, you also have to be able to sell yourself to an employer. IMO, nothing beats having actual hands-on experience. The latter is something that I am well aware of needing. My biggest obstacle to this isn't finding some place to intern where I can gain work experience doing archiving and research, it's trying to find time to do it between school and working a full-time job.
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post #11 of 20
2/9/11 at 7:53am
University/college here certainly isn't worth the money. The jobs just aren't there. There are others on my team, doing the same job I am doing, with university degrees who have no money at all because they are trying to pay off student loans.
I have simply a high school diploma and certainly don't believe I am unintelligent in any way. I am a hard worker, a fast learner and I read like there's no tomorrow. Through this hard work I was able to move up within the company I work for to a position I love with great benefits, decent pay, independance and the ability to work from home wherever I want to, AND I don't have a bunch of student loans to pay.
That being said I do not think schooling is a bad thing at all, in fact I would love to take advantage of it, that is IF I didn't have to pay all of the insane tuition fees.
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post #12 of 20
2/10/11 at 11:23pm
Anymore, in this economy, most employers won't even look at you if you don't have a degree, at least if you're applying for a job that pays over $10/hour. I was in the business world for over 11 years, but because I don't have a degree, I'm screwed when it comes to finding a job. So I'm in school to get that degree and I might go straight into my master's after I get my BA. I do agree that technical schools are very important and that some students are not cut out for a 4 year degree; me, I'm not cut out for technical school but just having a high school diploma simply is not going to to cut it- practically all the jobs that don't require a degree or at least some training have been shipped overseas
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post #13 of 20
2/11/11 at 6:22pm
I have a high school diploma and also a certificate from a vocational school. With a few years of experience, I have the ability to earn over $20/hr almost anywhere in the US.

The thing that is a bummer is that I was told by my parents, teachers, guidance counselors that I HAD to get a 4yr college dergee or else I would spend my life earning minimum wage and not be successful.

I think that more occupations should actually be treated like vocations and not require 4yrs of college.
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post #14 of 20
2/14/11 at 12:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by WELDRWOMN View Post
I have a high school diploma and also a certificate from a vocational school. With a few years of experience, I have the ability to earn over $20/hr almost anywhere in the US.

The thing that is a bummer is that I was told by my parents, teachers, guidance counselors that I HAD to get a 4yr college dergee or else I would spend my life earning minimum wage and not be successful.

I think that more occupations should actually be treated like vocations and not require 4yrs of college.
Very wise words
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post #15 of 20
2/14/11 at 9:49pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by katiemae1277 View Post
Anymore, in this economy, most employers won't even look at you if you don't have a degree, at least if you're applying for a job that pays over $10/hour. I was in the business world for over 11 years, but because I don't have a degree, I'm screwed when it comes to finding a job.

[skipped text]

but just having a high school diploma simply is not going to to cut it- practically all the jobs that don't require a degree or at least some training have been shipped overseas
Just be careful of the "debt monster", katiemae. Is there a way for you to take adult education as a way to stand out from the pack? It might be less risky in terms of falling into too much debt.
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post #16 of 20
2/15/11 at 2:01pm
IMO the Bloomberg article is kinda of misleading. That 4 years of college isn't for everyone is hardly a grand revelation.

I strongly encourage anyone interested in this topic, and most importantly all young people, read the actual study results:

http://www.gse.harvard.edu/news_even...ty_Feb2011.pdf

The point they make is that it is that obtaining *some kind* of post secondary education is becoming increasingly more important to ensure ones future prosperity. The number of jobs requiring only a high school diploma have declined dramatically in the last 30 years. They say that young people need to be made more aware of and have better access to career paths that don't necessarily require 4 or more years of college. Their main conclusion is the need to revamp the US education system to better prepare young people for post secondary education that isn't a college program.
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post #17 of 20
2/15/11 at 3:05pm
My son heads the team responsible for the website of the auction site of a well-known company (not ebay!) and he has no college degree. I had a successful career in a Fortune 500 company with just an AA degree. I then worked for another well-known computer company writing proposals in response to RFPs. Now I am semi-retired and working as an office manager/bookkeeper for a small company and I earn $25/hr.

My husband has an MBA and has not been able to find a full-time job in the past several years.

I don't know the answer. But I firmly believe more emphasis should be placed on vocational training. A 4 yr degree doesn't provide jobs for plumbers or carpenters or taxi drivers or gardeners. There will always be a need for laborers, and some of those earn some pretty high $$$. My step son-in-law barely got through high school, but he studied and learned how to become an electrician. Now he owns his own business that he built from the ground up. He & wife own a million dollar home in southern California, drive new BMWs. Their 16 yo daughter has a slightly used BMW and son has a new pickup. They vacation in Hawaii twice a year (all 5 of them) and they live very well.
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post #18 of 20
2/16/11 at 2:25am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty's Mom View Post
There will always be a need for laborers, and some of those earn some pretty high $$$. My step son-in-law barely got through high school, but he studied and learned how to become an electrician. Now he owns his own business that he built from the ground up. He & wife own a million dollar home in southern California, drive new BMWs. Their 16 yo daughter has a slightly used BMW and son has a new pickup. They vacation in Hawaii twice a year (all 5 of them) and they live very well.
This makes me smile! Sometimes I wonder if I value manual laborers more than the average person does. Perhaps this is because my parents did manual labor. There are plenty of people here in NYC who seem to 'look down on' manual labor. I'm not one of them - Never have been and I'm proud of that.
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post #19 of 20
2/18/11 at 8:00pm
Many corporations place so much emphasis on a 4 year degree that it almost makes it discriminatory when somebody with years of experience loses a job promotion to a person with a 4 year degree and less experience.
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post #20 of 20
2/19/11 at 3:55pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by abbycats View Post
Many corporations place so much emphasis on a 4 year degree that it almost makes it discriminatory when somebody with years of experience loses a job promotion to a person with a 4 year degree and less experience.
If the degreed applicant has mountainous student debt, the hiring company could feel he/she will be easier to exploit because after hiring, the applicant-turned-employee will be reluctant to quit no matter how much abuse exists in the job. JMO. Of course I'm not saying student debt is disclosed before an offer is made, but a shrewd employer with a nasty streak has the right to guesstimate in his head what the applicant's student debt might be and salivate. JMO.
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