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FIP? nightmare

post #1 of 32
2/4/11 at 11:33am
Thread Starter 
I have several cats of my own as well as foster cats. Two weeks ago I took in a kitten that got a clean bill of health soon after I got her. She was in quarantine for a few days and then I introduced her to some of my other cats. Shortly after she got out of quarantine she started to be a bit lethargic. I didn't think much of it though and left her out. After all all the new stuff must have been a bit draining.
Well, soon after that she started to run a fever and she was put on Clavamox and went back into quarantine. The clavamox didn't help though and 3-4 days later we went back to the vet and did blood work. She also got a convenia shot and fluids. I kept giving her fluids at home. This was Sturday. On Sunday the fever was gone but came back on Monday. By Tuesday night though it was gone again and now she seems to be back to normal. Very spunky and acting pretty much like any kitten. She's been eating and drinking very well all along. She had a little bit of a diarrhea a couple of times but I had been giving her canned food so that may have been why.

Because of the snow hell here in the midwest we didn't get the blood work back until yesterday, Thursday. It showed that she has been exposed to FIP. The vet doesn't know if she has it or if she has just been exposed. She also doesn't know if the fever, high fever, had anything to do with it. All we can do now is to wait four weeks and repeat the bloodwork to see if the levels go up or down. The kitten may have FIP or she may not. Right now she has no symptoms but I guess that can change.

I'm davestated about the kitten but I'm also completely terrified about my other cats since the kitten has been around them for several days. I was petting one of my cats yesterday and noticed that his lymph nodes in his neck are swollen (I believe it's the lymph nodes anyway). I checked the rest of the cats and three others also seemed to have swollen lymph nodes. I'm not sure if this means that they could have been exposed to the FIP. I can't find anything that says that FIP affects the lymph nodes in the neck but I'm wondering if it could be an early sign.
I'm waiting for the vet to call me back about this but I wanted to get some input from people here too. I'm also going to check to FIP groups that were suggested in another thread.

What do you guys think? How do those of you who have FIP cats and other cats deal with it? I'd really appreciate any info. I'm terrified that I'm going to lose my babies.

Thanks
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post #2 of 32
2/4/11 at 12:21pm
I just wrote out a lengthy post to try and help you out with what I know about FIP (I have 4 infected cats), but lost it when I was trying to post some links that may help you. I can't re-write it just now and will have to wait till later, but in the mean time, I hope these links will help.

I'm so sorry I messed up!

http://www.petmd.com/cat/conditions/...irus_infection

http://www.petplace.com/cats/what-yo...ailynewsletter
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post #3 of 32
2/4/11 at 1:23pm
Thread Starter 
Kittkatt,

That's happened to me to. You write this long, really good post and then something happens and it all disappears. It drives me nuts. I've started to write long posts in word where I can save it just because of that.

Thanks for taking the time to respond anyway. I just wanted to make clear, though, that my kitten is believed to have FIP (feline infectious peritonitis), not FIV. I wish she had FIV instead of FIP. In that case she could live a long normal life and the risk of spreading the disease is pretty low in spayed and neutered cats. With FIP the fatality rate is 100% so if she has it she will die from it and it probably won't take that long. It's a horrible disease.
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post #4 of 32
2/4/11 at 1:34pm
Okay, let me try this again.

As I mentioned, I have 4 FIP cats so I know a little about the disease. They are being treated with Interferon, which so far, has worked really well for them. Occasionally, they have a flare up, which requires strong doses of antibiotics to help fight off whatever it is they pick up (usually a URI). I also have them on L-Lysine, which helps aide their immune system. The few times they were off it, I noticed they were more inclined to have a flare-up, so I try keeping them on it all the time. I would ask your vet about these treatments.

FWIW, I don't think your kitten has the "wet" form of FIP: it sounds as if it may be the dry form - which is not as severe as the wet form and normally can be treated. I don't think the antibiotics would have helped her at all if she had the wet form, because the wet form is almost always fatal. If it is the dry form, the flare-ups will continue to reoccur till she gets some kind of treatment. Till my cats were treated, they would continue to have flare-ups constantly. Since they've been treated with the Interferon & L-Lysine, their flare-ups aren't as frequent and severe. Depending upon which cat it is, the flare-ups will usually occur about 2-5 times a year. Before the treatments, they were getting sick almost constantly, and the flare-ups were much worse.

I would take your other cats into the vet to be tested ASAP - just to be on the safe side. As long as they don't have the wet form of FIP (if that is indeed what it is), there is hope and treatment available. I can certainly understand your fear over this: when I first heard the words FIP, I was horribly upset and just sick inside till I found out more about it. Please don't give up hope till you know for sure what's going on.

And please don't "blame" yourself for bringing the kitten home. You didn't know - anymore than I knew when I brought Geronimo home, who ended up having FIP and passed it along to some of my other furkids. FWIW, I can also relate to your fear of adopting any other cats, too. I'm terrified now of bringing home another cat for fear of them having something and giving it to my other cats - and vise versa. It's a horrible way to feel when you love animals so much and want to give them a good home if you can.

I pray that your kitten isn't infected with FIP or hasn't passed it on to the other cats, but if she is, maybe you'll feel better knowing that there is hope and treatment available - as long as it's not the wet form - which I don't think it is. Many & are being sent your way! I hope what I've written helps.
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post #5 of 32
2/4/11 at 1:36pm
Oh my gosh, I don't have to much information about FIP but I know it is very scary. I, too, foster and took in some ferals as well. And it scares me when these things can come up out-of-the-blue like that. It is a worry for sure. Just wanted to send and I myself will read up on those links from KittKatt.
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post #6 of 32
2/4/11 at 1:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy'smom View Post
Kittkatt,

That's happened to me to. You write this long, really good post and then something happens and it all disappears. It drives me nuts. I've started to write long posts in word where I can save it just because of that.

Thanks for taking the time to respond anyway. I just wanted to make clear, though, that my kitten is believed to have FIP (feline infectious peritonitis), not FIV. I wish she had FIV instead of FIP. In that case she could live a long normal life and the risk of spreading the disease is pretty low in spayed and neutered cats. With FIP the fatality rate is 100% so if she has it she will die from it and it probably won't take that long. It's a horrible disease.
From what I've been able to gather FIP is the advanced stage of FIV: maybe I should refer to my cats having FIV instead of FIP. I apologize if I've confused you in any way: I'm still kinda fuzzy about the whole FIP/FIV thing. Maybe someone else will come along who has more knowledge and can explain it better. I do believe it's all related in some way - which by that I mean it's an immunity related disease - both FIP & FIV.

There are members here who have a lot of knowledge regarding FIP/FIV, and can explain about the blood testing thing, too (like false negatives & such). Hopefully, someone will come along who can explain it better than I can.

I meant to ask you if your kitten had a swollen abdomen. If she does or if it occurs, that means she has the wet form as I previously mentioned, and that it what is fatal. Having a swollen addomen means she's having fluids build up and there's not much that can be done for that. Did your vet check her for that?

I sure hope I'm not confusing you any! I know I'm far from being an expert regarding FIP: I just wanted to share what little I know having 4 FIP (FIV?) cats.
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post #7 of 32
2/4/11 at 1:55pm
KittKatt, FIP isn't an advanced stage of FIV. FIV is a lentivirus, and FIP is a coronavirus, and there's no way to test for it. A high titre count (of coronavirus) only indicates exposure to SOME type of coronavirus - and there are so many. Cats with FIV (because of their weakened immune systems) would be more susceptible to having a coronavirus infection BECOME FIP - but FIP and FIV are not even related.

Here is information on FIP: http://www.vet.cornell.edu/fhc/brochures/fip.html

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post #8 of 32
2/4/11 at 2:00pm
And the use of interferon with FIP: http://www.vetinfo.com/fip-treatment...nterferon.html
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post #9 of 32
2/4/11 at 2:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG View Post
KittKatt, FIP isn't an advanced stage of FIV. FIV is a lentivirus, and FIP is a coronavirus, and there's no way to test for it. A high titre count (of coronavirus) only indicates exposure to SOME type of coronavirus - and there are so many. Cats with FIV (because of their weakened immune systems) would be more susceptible to having a coronavirus infection BECOME FIP - but FIP and FIV are not even related.

Here is information on FIP: http://www.vet.cornell.edu/fhc/brochures/fip.html
Thanks for explaining that, Laurie. It makes more sense now.

I truly apologize if I confused anyone. This whole FIP/FIV thing has got MY head spinning!

ETA: Thanks for the links too, Laurie. I got more studying to do!
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post #10 of 32
2/4/11 at 2:10pm
Thread Starter 
I think it's pretty common to confuse FIP and FIV. Even some vet professionals don't really know the difference. But, as mentioned, they are not related.

I'm wondering, has anyone here ever had a cat beat FIP?

ETA: My kitten just had a titre test (sp) that showed exposure. We don't yet know if she has it or not. The vet seemed to think it's likely though.
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post #11 of 32
2/4/11 at 2:13pm
FIP is nearly always fatal- both wet and dry. It is also a conveneint out for many vets (who haven't gotten a clue what is really wrong) for them to just say "Oh the kitty has FIP." It is also known as the Great Imitator because it can mimic many diseases. There is no known test that will tell you for sure if the kitten or cat has FIP. I have heard that later this year studies will be released that support a new vaccine that will prevent DRY FIP only- but it hasn't been made "public" yet.
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post #12 of 32
2/4/11 at 2:15pm
I really want to thank you again for those links, Laurie. They were far more insightful than any other information I've come across so far. Thanks a bunch!
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post #13 of 32
2/4/11 at 2:16pm
Bascially, it really just depends on what the blood work indicates, and the symptoms she exhibits. Cold are coronaviruses, so yes, it is totally possible for a cat to beat a coronavirus. Most of us, including most cats, have been exposed to coronaviruses. All we can do is hope your vet is wrong about the FIP part.

(And no, FIP cannot be transmitted to humans, and as the articles indicate, it is not a highly contageous disease).
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post #14 of 32
2/4/11 at 2:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hissy View Post
FIP is nearly always fatal- both wet and dry. It is also a conveneint out for many vets (who haven't gotten a clue what is really wrong) for them to just say "Oh the kitty has FIP." It is also known as the Great Imitator because it can mimic many diseases. There is no known test that will tell you for sure if the kitten or cat has FIP. I have heard that later this year studies will be released that support a new vaccine that will prevent DRY FIP only- but it hasn't been made "public" yet.
So, knowing that, would it be fair to say that my cats are FIV positive, with the probability of it becoming FIP eventually? Wouldn't the Interferon be ineffective if that were the case?
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post #15 of 32
2/4/11 at 2:32pm
Are your cats FIV+? There is a simple test for that, though the SNAP test does show false positives. The definitive test for FIV is called a Western Blot test and is quite expensive. If they're being treated with interferon, it's a pretty safe bet their diagnosis was FIV.

But for FIV to "become" FIP? No. FIV is a slow-acting lentivirus that attacks the immune system. It is like HIV in people. With a weakened immune system, anyone infected with HIV or any cat infected with FIV becomes more susceptible to other diseases. But it requires exposure to them to get them, and even then, it really depends upon the state of their immune systems.

FIP is a mutated coronavirus. A lentivuris will not and cannot become a coronavirus. They are simply two different things completely.

But FIV does not become other diseases. It can make something like a regular cold or upper respiratory infection harder to treat because FIV weakens the immune system. People with FIV+ kitties must be much more vigilant about treating any illness - and it can take stronger antibiotics or longer to treat them.

All FIV can "become" is Feline AIDS. But for FIV to progress that far is actually quite rare - more rare than HIV becoming AIDS in people. I assume their treatment with the interferon is when they begin to show symptoms that result from the deteriorating immune system, and the interferon helps "beat back" the progression of the lentivirus that causes FIV.
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post #16 of 32
2/4/11 at 2:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG View Post
Are your cats FIV+? There is a simple test for that, though the SNAP test does show false positives. The definitive test for FIV is called a Western Blot test and is quite expensive. If they're being treated with interferon, it's a pretty safe bet their diagnosis was FIV.

But for FIV to "become" FIP? No. FIV is a slow-acting lentivirus that attacks the immune system. It is like HIV in people. With a weakened immune system, anyone infected with HIV or any cat infected with FIV becomes more susceptible to other diseases. But it requires exposure to them to get them, and even then, it really depends upon the state of their immune systems.

FIP is a mutated coronavirus. A lentivuris will not and cannot become a coronavirus. They are simply two different things completely.

But FIV does not become other diseases. It can make something like a regular cold or upper respiratory infection harder to treat because FIV weakens the immune system. People with FIV+ kitties must be much more vigilant about treating any illness - and it can take stronger antibiotics or longer to treat them.

All FIV can "become" is Feline AIDS. But for FIV to progress that far is actually quite rare - more rare than HIV becoming AIDS in people.
Then from what you're saying, Laurie, my cats are FIV+ not FIP or the Interferon wouldn't be helping them I guess.
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post #17 of 32
2/4/11 at 2:44pm
KittKatt, I don't know. FIP apparently can also be - in some cases - treated with interferon. That's the second link I provided.

It should be pretty simple to find out. There is a definitive test for FIV, and you can know for sure whether or not your cats are infected with it.

Why not just call your vet and ask if your cats were diagnosed with FIV or FIP?

If they have FIP, it would have nothing to do (directly) with FIV. It is a potential for them to have both, though I would expect the FIP would claim them pretty quickly if that were the case. The FIV would have weakened their immune systems, making them more susceptible to having the coronavirus exposure mutate into FIP.

There is no definitive test for FIP. That can only be determined after a cat's death by autopsy. You can determine if the cat has been exposed to the virus that can mutate into and then cause FIP, but that's it.

But there's no way for me to know whether or not your cats have FIV or FIP, or both just based on them being treated with interferon.
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post #18 of 32
2/4/11 at 3:52pm
You said you are still waiting for results from your test. Your kitten may or may not have FIP. I hope the vet finds that your kitten doesn't have it!
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post #19 of 32
2/4/11 at 5:52pm
Are you just getting them confused because of the similarity of the intials? As Laurie said, they are completely different diseases and not interchangeable. They don't morph into each other- at least not to my knowledge.

FIV commonly called Feline AIDS can sit and incubate in a cat anywhere from a few months up to 12 years before really hitting hard. You can have an ELSA test done to determine if your cat has this disease. If this shows up positive in order to see if it is a false-positive, it should be followed up with a IFA or a blot test. if that is positive, then you will know. It doesn't pass from cat to cat by casual contact- but with biting and fighting. You can also vaccinate against it usually not a wise idea- But that isn't even an option yet with FIP.

to stop the spread of this disease and to stop the acceleration of symptoms- neuter all cats in the home, keep inside only kitties, lower the stress level and don't add anymore animals to your home as it raises the stress level considerably.
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post #20 of 32
2/4/11 at 8:24pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
You said you are still waiting for results from your test. Your kitten may or may not have FIP. I hope the vet finds that your kitten doesn't have it!
We got the results from the initial test which shows that she has been exposed to the corona virus. It has to be repeated in four weeks to see if the levels go up or down. As I understand it that will indicate whether or not the kitten has FIP. Until then we'll just have to guess.
Unfortunately my vet seems to know very little about FIP so asking her questions is pretty much useless. I talked to her this afternoon and asked her questions about how FIP spreads and what risk my other cats are in, etc. I asked her if it's the corona virus that the kitten could give to the other cats or if it was the actual FIP virus. She first said that she wasn't sure if the corona virus had anything to do with FIP (which is does) and that spreading the corona virus is pretty much the same as spreading FIP (which it's not). I've only been reading about this disease since yesterday and from the little I've read I seem to know more than my vet. That's pretty frustrating.

Basically what I want to know is, is fever a common early symptom of FIP? When a cat with FIP originally gets sick will they recover from the illness and then get sick again? My kitten is now fully recovered from the fever so from what I've read it doesn't sound like FIP but then most info is about the late stages.
Her only symptom was a fever and once she got the convenia shot she was fine in about 3 days. What do you guys think?
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post #21 of 32
2/4/11 at 8:38pm
I'd have to do a little hunting, but I'm with you on this one. I mean - when Tuxedo first had his issue with anemia, our really good vet was out of town. A different vet at the practice got his blood work back, and with the low red blood cell AND low white blood cell count, he said "It's probably FIP!" He had us bring in ALL of our cats for corona virus testing, and had them all stay in QUARANTINE for 2 days. Naturally we're completely freaking out.

Our great vet gets back from vacation, and is appalled. He can't believe the other vet not only freaked us out unnecessarily, but even bothered testing the other cats - because exposure to the corona virus is just that - exposure to the corona virus. It is what causes a COLD.

In cats with a compromised immune system, somehow it mutates into FIP - but they don't know why or how. Just that it is uncommon. It is also difficult to spread around.

Well, Tuxie had an autoimmune disease that had nothing to do with FIP.

And if convenia has cleared up the fever, it seems to me she had an upper respiratory infection complicated by a bacterial infection. (Colds are a virus, after all, and antibacterials don't help them get better - but if there is additionally a bacterial infection, they clear that up, leaving the immune system stronger for having to fight just the virus).

I have no idea what in her blood work would make your vet think "FIP." If it was just the fever.... that's just strange.

I'd ask around at work or among friends to see if anyone has a vet they rave about, and I'd be getting a second opinion. You can get a copy of the current tests and blood work to take with you rather than repeating it.
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post #22 of 32
2/4/11 at 9:12pm
Most infections start with a fever. With FIP the lymph nodes become enlarged, the cat goes off its food, becomes lethargic and then depending on the wet or dry the symptoms will increase.

There is an FIP website that was created a few years ago that is the BEST out there. Unfortunately the owner was murdered last year so I don't know if her website is still online. I will check and see and if so post the link-
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post #23 of 32
2/4/11 at 10:17pm
http://www.allpetsnews.com/articlepc.php?id=39


This is the most up-to-date thorough article on FIP IMO
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post #24 of 32
2/5/11 at 12:14am
Almost all cats have been exposed to the coronavirus that can turn into FIP. Veryvery few will actually get FIP. So don't worry about "exposing" your other cats; chances are they have that coronavirus floating around somewhere in their systems already. Some vets are wacky about the whole thing--I know one person whose vet told her to put down her new kittens because they tested positive for the virus! If all cats that test positive for coronavirus were put down we wouldn't have a lot of cats left. . .

The best thing to do is to keep their immune systems strong with good nutrition and proper vet care. Hopefully the kitten doesn't develop FIP, and recovers quickly from whatever is ailing her!
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post #25 of 32
2/5/11 at 1:36am
I am sorry to hear of your problems and I really feel for you - I had a foster kitten die of FIP two years ago (confirmed at autopsy, and then an adult foster cat who had been spending a lot of time with the kitten also died. The kitten's symptoms were recurrent fever that did not respond to antibiotics or anti-inflammatories, lethargy and not eating, and fluid in the lungs and abdomen visible on ultrasound. The adult cat vomited and could not keep food down, was also lethargid and also had fluid in the abdomen. Both died within a few weeks of symptoms starting. They both tested positive int he early stages for coronavirus exposure, and the adult cat's levels went up considerably on a second test.

Naturally I was terrified for my own cats, although they were kept separate. It was more serious for the other fosters which did share space and litter trays etc with the cats who became sick. I put them, with my vet's agreement, on a course of Transfer Factor to boost their immune system, My daughter adopted two of the kittens, kept them on Transfer Factor for a few months and they have been fine. though they tested positive for exposure. TF is made from cow colostrum and just helps general immunity = it does not cure anything but can do no harm.

If your kitten does not have a recurrence of fever, then the chances are things will be fine. But I know how scary it is abd I send you all the good vibes I can muster for things to get better.
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post #26 of 32
2/5/11 at 6:21am
Hi something to keep in mind, as others have said....... there is no definitive test for FIP........ it is the coronavirus that shows up and there are several forms of that. It can develop into FIP but it does not in most cats. Just like most people will be exposed to the flu viruses but most of them won't get pnuemonia, a more serious complication. A vet can say from testing that your cat has been exposed to Corona but the diagnosis of FIP is based on that plus sypmtoms. That is one of the reasons FIP vaccine is not given by many vets, there is no good test or shot at this time.

My daughter's cat was diagnosed by a Vet and he told my daughter the cat would be dead within a year, she was devastated of course. Pebbles lived another 6 yrs and died at age 16. I had a cat that the Vet told me as a kitten she had FIP, Tigger lived to be 17 and died of congestive heart failure.

Good luck, I hope whatever is going on you get it under control and all will be ok.
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post #27 of 32
2/7/11 at 11:18am
I just wanted to see how kitty's doing?
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post #28 of 32
2/8/11 at 5:56pm
Thread Starter 
Kitty is actually doing just fine (knock on wood). She's recovered completely from the illness she has and her energy is back 110%. She's racing back and forth in the house, attacking everything that moves. She's a blast!
I don't think she has FIP. Of course it's not impossible but I don't thing there is any more reason to believe that she has in than any other cat that has ever been sick. She did test positive for the corona virus but after reading up on it I've found out that over 80% of cats that have lived with other cats have been exposed to the corona virus. It doesn't mean that a cat has FIP at all like my vet made it sound. Since I've educated myself I've realized that this vet has no clue what she's talking about so I'm taking anything she says about this with grain of salt.

I've let the kitten out of isolation and I'm planning to have her spayed and put up for adoption soon. What frustrates me about my vet leading me to believe that she had FIP, other than the fact that it terrified me, is that I had a potential family lined up for her. When I found out that she may be seriously ill I emailed them and told them to look for another kitten.
Oh well, she's a great kitten and we'll find her another home. Anyone looking to adopt?
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post #29 of 32
2/8/11 at 6:09pm
I AM sorry about her potential adoption - but on how great she's doing!

And yup - the common cold is a coronavirus. Sorry your vet scared you too.
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post #30 of 32
2/8/11 at 7:31pm
Thread Starter 
I'm happy she's better too except for when I feel little sharp kitty teeth sink into my big toe at night Every time I move my foot in my sleep she feels the need to attack. SHe has no lack of energy, that's for sure
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