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Egypt's unrest

post #1 of 64
1/28/11 at 12:26pm
Thread Starter 
I'm watching the events unfold on CNN and thinking to myself that I am watching a war zone. To turn off all communication- Internet, Twitter, Cell phones etc.... it boggles my mind. My friend lives in Cairo and I am so worried about her right now with no way to get in touch.
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post #2 of 64
1/28/11 at 12:33pm
I'm tuned into CNN, too. In view of the situation in Tunisia, I've been expecting protests in Egypt. People in Yemen, Qatar and Jordan are demonstrating, too.

This takes me back to the protests in Eastern Europe before the Iron Curtain fell.

Here's a link that gives a short summary of the implications: Analysis: Why Egypt matters
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post #3 of 64
1/28/11 at 12:36pm
I just saw a glimpse on the news but I didn't hear what it was all about, I hope everyone there stays safe.xx
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post #4 of 64
1/28/11 at 6:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruthyb View Post
I just saw a glimpse on the news but I didn't hear what it was all about, I hope everyone there stays safe.xx
Yeah same here
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post #5 of 64
1/29/11 at 7:16am
I don't usually watch them, but Al Jazeera is currently running live news coverage if anyone's interested.
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post #6 of 64
1/29/11 at 8:12am
Thousands in Cairo defy curfew
Mubarak appoints vice-president


Does Mubarak really believe he can avoid stepping down? It seems the Cabinet's resignation is far too little, too late.

The big question is whether Egypt will be like Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia or Iran. Will the "domino effect" continue throughout the Middle East? What will it mean for Israel?
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post #7 of 64
1/29/11 at 9:05am
I just read that 38 people have died, that's terrible.xx
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post #8 of 64
1/29/11 at 3:42pm
I just hope that this administration can learn to keep their hands out of foreign internal affairs unless aid is requested and its in our national interest to do so.

I wish them the best, but Egypt needs to work out their own issues and decide the new direction they wish their government to take without foreigners trying to exert artificial influence on their political system. And if our Administration wants to speak, that is fine, but it should only be to support the will of the people in Egypt (we pretend to foster democracy and freedom do we not) and condemn the Egyptian government using the military and media control to quash the voices against them.

Mubarak has been so very unpopular for such a long time that it seems to many that his 30 year uninterrupted rule is due mainly to western influence, and of course the people wouldn't appreciate that anymore than Americans would like China or Israel or some other nation with puppet officials here deciding policy. And all you get from that in the long-term is an extreme backlash with fuel given to extremists.
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post #9 of 64
2/1/11 at 7:49am
al sha'b yurid isqat al nizam!

The people want to overthrow the regime!


So wish to be in Egypt right now. My egyptian born husband is in a daze - never in a million years did he believe that his people would do this.

The Tunisians did it in a month.

inshaAllah Egyptians will do it in less time.


Any thoughts, prayers and positive vibes that can be spared for my family there would be appreciated. My BIL is part of the citizens' patrol in his neighborhood, protecting against government thugs masquerading as looters. My MIL, who is not in the best health, is holed up at home. Reports are that 25-50% of the population of my husband's home town is on the streets today.

Huriyah!

Freedom!
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post #10 of 64
2/1/11 at 9:28am
Rahma, your family is certianly in my prayers!
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post #11 of 64
2/1/11 at 9:30am
Ah, but what comes after...there's the rub.

Will you get democracy, or tyranny like Iran?
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post #12 of 64
2/1/11 at 11:13am
The alternative is to keep the current dictator in power, one who suppresses the people's right to freedom of speech, press and assembly, not to mention outright blatantly subverting the democratic system the constitution enshrines.

Just got word that a friend of my husband has been arrested for posting online. No one knows where he is.

No habeas corpus in egypt. Nope, under the emergency law (which as been in effect for nearly 30 years), they can throw you in jail for no reason and pitch the key. If you're lucky. If you're not, the police will beat you to death and dump your body.

It irks me that everyone is wringing their hands over oh the MB, the MB, Iran Iran Iran. The people of Egypt have no choice but to take to the street and demand a change. Otherwise they're in for another 30 years of dictatorship and oppression.
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post #13 of 64
2/1/11 at 11:24am
for your family and friends in Egypt, Rahma. According to news reports, 2 million people demonstrated in Cairo today. This has got to be a huge turning point, at the very least for Egypt, but possibly for the entire Middle East. Jordan's king already dismissed the government.

This reminds me so much of the former East Bloc.
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post #14 of 64
2/1/11 at 12:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rahma View Post
The alternative is to keep the current dictator in power, one who suppresses the people's right to freedom of speech, press and assembly, not to mention outright blatantly subverting the democratic system the constitution enshrines.
Tell you what. Let's have this discussion 5 years from now. The Iranians thought they were getting democracy and a better government, and they have less freedom now than they did before the exit of the Shah. Instead they have an unelected government shooting them in the streets and cutting them off from the rest of the world.

There is a historical similarity between current events and 1848 in Europe. Lots of revolutions in a very short time.
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post #15 of 64
2/1/11 at 12:45pm
We've got a problem. Mubarak is a dictator and we've supported him for 30+ years because he is friendly to the U.S. But America and more importantly Americans believe in democracy and the right of self-determination. Now the people want to choose their leader and oust the dictator Mubarak, but the person or people they want to put in power are the Muslim Brotherhood, who don't like the U.S. and favor Jihad and Muslim extremism.

Either way, the US is in a tough spot and can be viewed as hypocrites.
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post #16 of 64
2/1/11 at 12:58pm
Who says anything about the Egyptian people wanting to put the Ikwan into power? The MB is but one of dozens of groups that make up the opposition coalition. And since they weren't the ones who fomented this uprising, and were late coming to the party, it's hard to believe they would be allowed to take power.
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post #17 of 64
2/1/11 at 1:57pm
Thread Starter 
rahma, it was my understanding that the government put the people in the dark; turned off the Internet, the cells, the regular phones and even the television? How did this person get access to the Internet then?

I feel for the people I see on the streets. Early on in this, I only saw students, now I am seeing women, old men, teenagers and children. I think the United States would be wise to stay out of it- but I have a feeling they aren't going to for very long.

I keep thinking if something like this happened here- could our government also shut us all down and keep us in the dark unable to communicate with each other? It's a shuddering thought.
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post #18 of 64
2/1/11 at 3:24pm
If they do get him out of power, who would they put in. One person was talking about Sharia (sp?) Law being the best way to go. I think that is scary, particularly for the women of Egypt.

I was sad to learn that a plane-load of Canadians were held for ransom of $2000 before the airport folks would open the doors to allow them to board the plane. Also the destruction at the museum which fortunately was stopped before too much damage was done. It would be such a shame to lose all those treasures and historical artifacts.
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post #19 of 64
2/1/11 at 3:35pm
MA, I don't know about the person Rahma's talking about, but Google and Twitter have set up audio-to-text capability, so people can post messages by leaving voice mails.

As to your question about whether the government could shut down all those services here is probably yes - but they don't need to. They'd rather just keep spying on us with those services up and running (IMO).

As to the opposition coalition... it's just very scary all the way around. Right now it's looking like Mohamed El Baradei is being supported by the opposition coalition. He was head of the International Atomic Energy Agency and received the Nobel Peace prize. But basically he's been pro-Iran and anti-Israel. Hate to condense it down to that...
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post #20 of 64
2/1/11 at 3:40pm
Rahma, I am praying for your family and all of the innocent, civilized citizens suffering at this time. It their right to have something new and I pray for good change for the people there. I hope your family will be safe
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post #21 of 64
2/1/11 at 4:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feralvr View Post
Rahma, I am praying for your family and all of the innocent, civilized citizens suffering at this time. It their right to have something new and I pray for good change for the people there. I hope your family will be safe
Absolutely, and very well said. Adding my vibes
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post #22 of 64
2/2/11 at 12:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty's Mom View Post
Now the people want to choose their leader and oust the dictator Mubarak, but the person or people they want to put in power are the Muslim Brotherhood, who don't like the U.S. and favor Jihad and Muslim extremism.
Fear mongering IMO by those that wish for the administration to continue propping the current regime. The Muslim Brotherhood doesn't hold any real power.

Ultimately what this all boils down to IMO is an economic downturn and overpopulation in Egypt.

The last generation had far far far too many children, they are now young adults, and with the economic downturn that has hit Egypt hard, they are out looking for jobs and seeing no opportunity.

Its apparent that the only real opportunities that exist for them is if they are part of the military or part of the corrupt government, and when you have that many young people unemployed and unoccupied seeing no future for themselves, they get angry and blame their government and reach for their bibles and their guns.
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post #23 of 64
2/2/11 at 12:27am
BTW, here is an article from a few years ago about how the government was finally devoting real resources to family planning and women education programs to cope with Egypts overpopulation problem... http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/20...nt_8342081.htm

Interesting to look back to 2006 when Murabak said "overpopulation in Egypt is a risk which threatens development", making you wonder if he finally saw the smoke on the horizon that just five years later now are the flames that will now likely lead to the destruction of his government.
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post #24 of 64
2/2/11 at 8:31am
Thread Starter 
This was just shared on a list I am on of pet authors from all over the world. Since it is now on a public blog- I am passing on the information so that you can all taste some of the horror going on. This is a blackberry text between two authors, one who is here in Texas, the other Heike, lives in Cairo. Yesterday, her office was looted and all computers were taken or smashed.

At any rate, here is the conversation and at least I know that for now, my friend is safe:

http://www.redroom.com/blog/amy-d-sh...ling-for-egypt
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post #25 of 64
2/2/11 at 9:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducman69 View Post
Fear mongering IMO by those that wish for the administration to continue propping the current regime. The Muslim Brotherhood doesn't hold any real power.
Maybe. It's been estimated that although the MB in theory is banned, in fact about 20% of the population consider themselves "aligned" with it.

And the MB was the source of almost all of the leadership of Al Qaeda.

Not much we can (or should) do about it. As I said, 5 years from now, we might be able to discuss it intelligently.
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post #26 of 64
2/2/11 at 9:59am
Just horrible in all ways and very frightening. While the current president is not that good, what may end up running the country is even worse.

Not only that, but ALL of this is predicted in Revelation as to what is coming! The map is laid out accuractly. Not only NT but also in OT (Daniel).
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post #27 of 64
2/2/11 at 12:24pm
I think everybody fears another Iran(ian revolution), including many Arabs (or at least the ones I've talked to - currently my students from Tunisia, Morocco, Algeria and Syria). While a replay is possible, the world is now a different place, not in small part due to globalization and the internet. And why simply assume Islamists can't participate in democratically elected governments, anyway? There are radicals/fundamentalists in plenty of other countries' parliaments. Do we actually "know" that the Muslim Brotherhood consists solely of bloodthirsty terrorists, or have we swallowed a bogeyman line from allies desperate to stay in power and get aid by any means?

The current situation in most of the countries in the Middle East, with huge income disparities, overpopulation and authoritarian and corrupt governments with little or no respect for human rights, can't continue. The people have reached the breaking point, and who are we in Western industrialized countries to wish for a continuation of the status quo in the name of "stability" while preaching democratic values? We've already seen where that leads - the 9/11 terrorists grew up in the countries whose autocrats our governments have supported.
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post #28 of 64
2/2/11 at 1:40pm
Thread Starter 
http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/stev...oing.html#more
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post #29 of 64
2/2/11 at 3:33pm
The Muslim Brotherhood is bad news, and there is no exaggeration on that front IMO. I just can't imagine them having any real support in Egypt other than a few being sympathetic due to a shared cause at present. There's just a very powerful Israeli lobby force in the US, and they use fear mongering in that regard the way public schools teach sex education... a bit of truth, but mostly intentional scare tactics.

I see the MB as the Egyptian version of the BNP in the UK. Do they exist? Yes. Do they have support due to extremist backlash against bad policy in place? Yes. But nevertheless they are still a fringe group. Take away the catalyst, and they quickly fade back into nothing.
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post #30 of 64
2/3/11 at 5:18am
We can only watch, hope that cooler heads prevail, and that the beginnings of a true democracy can take root. We as a country cannot continue to support these autocrats that oppress their own people in the name of stability. I know if things go badly Israel could very well fall and I am a supporter of Israel, but we cannot continue to support the oppression of large groups of people in other countries to support Israel. I doubt that oil supplies are in danger unless some very unreasonable people take control. Sale of oil is still the main source of income for the region. Even Iran is still selling oil because they need the income.
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