$55??? (Hills i/d)

When Belle was sick over the holidays, I was sent home with a small bag of Hills i/d. Can't even remember how much it cost, because it was part of a $900 vet bill.

Today, I ran out of food and didn't want to rush home from work to get to the vet in time, so I called the vet and ordered a big bag, got my mom to go pick it up, and then picked the food up from there. When I got there, they first thing she said was "$55??? For that little bag?" I thought not much of it, as I was paying $65 for a big bag of Orijen previously. When she said "small bag" I figured, yeah, it would be much smaller than the bags she buys for her medium-sized dogs.

Well, when I went to get the bag of food out of her car, I was shocked to see how small it was. I went back in the house to agree with her...$55?????? LOL...it's a 5 lb bag...the bag of Orijen I got was 15 lbs (not positive about that, but it was much bigger and that was the weight I found on the internet). So, basically, I just paid 3 times the price for a food that has exponentially worse ingredients...YIKES!

And, what's worse, is they eat this stuff like candy. With Orijen, I had to fill their bowls every other day...I'm filling their bowls everyday now and it's still empty half the time.

Anyway, no real purpose in this thread other than to share my amazement. I will continue buying the dry i/d for a while, and then I plan to look into switching to a food with better ingredients.

Just a moment!

Here is a link for a $7 coupon for the next time you buy... Also, shop around the other vet clinics - get a prescription from your vet and do that; it is my experience that vet offices mark up the prices way too much, and some of them can give you a pretty nice discount

Here is the link for Hills prescription Offers - always check before you buy it, they run deals regularly:
http://www.hillspet.com/products/pro...al-offers.html

Also, please don't forget a prescription food is designed to treat specific issues - it's not a matter of finding something with better ingredients cheaper, really, but a matter of finding what works with a cat's condition.

My boy is on Hill's CD to treat crystals - to a layperson, ingredients don't look that super, and, while not extraordinarily expensive, not the cheapest food on the block...but, his urine sample came back totally clean last week. If nothing else, so much cheaper than taking a sick cat in for surgery.

You may be able to find a nonprescription food that works, but I beg you to work with your vet as you look for new foods.

Originally Posted by darlili

Also, please don't forget a prescription food is designed to treat specific issues - it's not a matter of finding something with better ingredients cheaper, really, but a matter of finding what works with a cat's condition.

My boy is on Hill's CD to treat crystals - to a layperson, ingredients don't look that super, and, while not extraordinarily expensive, not the cheapest food on the block...but, his urine sample came back totally clean last week. If nothing else, so much cheaper than taking a sick cat in for surgery.

You may be able to find a nonprescription food that works, but I beg you to work with your vet as you look for new foods.

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It's certainly worth asking the vet why they feel this specific food is beneficial for treating the condition. The problem is so many vets prescribe SD more due to the amount of money Hills gives to vet practices, rather than any amazing medical qualities in the food. I wouldn't be surprised if something with better ingredients could be purchased for cheaper.

Originally Posted by saitenyo

It's certainly worth asking the vet why they feel this specific food is beneficial for treating the condition. The problem is so many vets prescribe SD more due to the amount of money Hills gives to vet practices, rather than any amazing medical qualities in the food. I wouldn't be surprised if something with better ingredients could be purchased for cheaper.

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Science Diet is very very different from Hills Prescription.
A prescription diet serves a purpose and has specific ingredients in specific quantities to help with that condition - it works alongside medicine or instead of. I do not feed Science Diet, but have had GREAT success with Hills Z/D and until recently it was the only food 2 of my cats could eat (they are still eating the wet). They are currently being transitioned to Royal Canin's version of the Z/D, Royal Canin HP 23, which IHMO does not have as good ingredient list as Hills does, but it is my only other option.
Prescription food, such as Hills prescription, should be viewed as prescription, not as regular diet...

One thing I noticed with prescription food is that the bag I got from the emergency vet was smaller than the bag I found on line. And the price was higher.

The vet sold a 4 pound bag. I order a 6 pound bag from the supplier I use on line. It's also a different brand, not Hills.

I did a quick check and also noticed that different brands come in different sizes. The small size of Hills i/d is 8.5 pounds and less than $55. At least the bag I found was. They may have smaller ones and I am not seeing it.

I order my prescription food both canned and dry on line. The prices is lower even with the cost of shipping and it is more convenient for me to have it delivered.

Another reason is I order different brands of wet and dry and the regular vet does not sell these brands.

Originally Posted by Carolina

Science Diet is very very different from Hills Prescription.
A prescription diet serves a purpose and has specific ingredients in specific quantities to help with that condition - it works alongside medicine or instead of. I do not feed Science Diet, but have had GREAT success with Hills Z/D and until recently it was the only food 2 of my cats could eat (they are still eating the wet). They are currently being transitioned to Royal Canin's version of the Z/D, Royal Canin HP 23, which IHMO does not have as good ingredient list as Hills does, but it is my only other option.
Prescription food, such as Hills prescription, should be viewed as prescription, not as regular diet...

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It's still commercial pet food (by the same company with the same conniving marketing practices) being pushed on vets and people via very powerful lobbying programs. Their "Ultra Allergen-Free" contains one of the most common cat food allergens (soy). Their prescription diets really don't differ that dramatically, ingredient-wise, from their standard Science Diet lines.

If it's the only thing a cat will eat, or if it manages to help a particular cat, then I'm all for that. I just don't think it should be regarded as a cure-all or that its poor ingredients should be overlooked just because it happens to have the word "prescription" in the name and happens to be often recommended by vets who were educated in nutrition by reps from the very company whose food they're prescribing.

If someone is not comfortable feeding that food to their cats, I think they most definitely should feel free to seek other opinions from other qualified sources who may be less compelled to push a specific company's product, whether the original source is a vet or not.

I won't take prescription medication from a human doctor either if it sounds like they're more interested in selling me the drugs that offer them funding and incentives than actually finding the best option for my needs.

Originally Posted by saitenyo

It's still commercial pet food (by the same company with the same conniving marketing practices) being pushed on vets and people via very powerful lobbying programs. So? It saved my cat's life, and for that I am forever grateful. Their "Ultra Allergen-Free" contains one of the most common cat food allergens (soy). No, you are wrong, it doesn't; it contains soybean OIL, which is NOT a protein nor an allergen. Their prescription diets really don't differ that dramatically, ingredient-wise, from their standard Science Diet lines. Oh yeah it does, for one thing it has hydrolyzed proteins that are not recognized by the body as an allergen, and highly digestible carbs and fats.

If it's the only thing a cat will eat, or if it manages to help a particular cat, then I'm all for that. I just don't think it should be regarded as a cure-all or that its poor ingredients should be overlooked just because it happens to have the word "prescription" in the name and happens to be often recommended by vets who were educated in nutrition by reps from the very company whose food they're prescribing. IMHO one needs to be very careful when making statements about prescription foods. There are cats who need them for their survival. That might not be the case for your cat, but it is for mine, and many others. There are cats with serious cases of Crystals that are only on remission because of prescription diet. I hope you do never need them... I used to have this very same attitude, until the day my baby Hope fell gravelly ill and Hills Z/D turned her life around. Prescription food DOES serve a purpose. This is a fact, at least for many of us who have life saving experience with them.

If someone is not comfortable feeding that food to their cats, I think they most definitely should feel free to seek other opinions from other qualified sources who may be less compelled to push a specific company's product, whether the original source is a vet or not. Such as what? An online blog?

I won't take prescription medication from a human doctor either if it sounds like they're more interested in selling me the drugs that offer them funding and incentives than actually finding the best option for my needs.

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Originally Posted by saitenyo

It's still commercial pet food (by the same company with the same conniving marketing practices) being pushed on vets and people via very powerful lobbying programs. Their "Ultra Allergen-Free" contains one of the most common cat food allergens (soy). Their prescription diets really don't differ that dramatically, ingredient-wise, from their standard Science Diet lines.

If it's the only thing a cat will eat, or if it manages to help a particular cat, then I'm all for that. I just don't think it should be regarded as a cure-all or that its poor ingredients should be overlooked just because it happens to have the word "prescription" in the name and happens to be often recommended by vets who were educated in nutrition by reps from the very company whose food they're prescribing.

If someone is not comfortable feeding that food to their cats, I think they most definitely should feel free to seek other opinions from other qualified sources who may be less compelled to push a specific company's product, whether the original source is a vet or not.

I won't take prescription medication from a human doctor either if it sounds like they're more interested in selling me the drugs that offer them funding and incentives than actually finding the best option for my needs.

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Please ACTUALLY give factual info ... Z/d ultra is far different from the reg SD lines in pet and feed stores ... Its processing is different and the actual ingredients are ... While the ingredients personally make me ill .. There is alot of science behind them and if the vet prescribes it .... Then it should be feed until such time vet and pet owner have a discussion about other options.. Yes there are vets who do not carry rx foods as the use the other options first ( I am lucky enough to have one) but at times they have to send a person to another vet for the RX diet right for their pet.
RX foods have Many Many studies and MOST are done by 3rd and 4th parties not in the pet food game nor working for any of them...

Many vets are far more educated on foods in the last 10 yrs and many have sought info past the reps

I'm not sure why half the time I try to offer an alternative opinion on this forum, I get met with condescending replies implying I get all my information from "the internet." Or online blogs.

If you had read my post clearly you would not that I said: "If someone is not comfortable feeding that food to their cats, I think they most definitely should feel free to seek other opinions from other qualified sources" (i.e. another vet, one educated in cat nutrition, not pushing the products of a specific brand). I also said: "If it's the only thing a cat will eat, or if it manages to help a particular cat, then I'm all for that. "

I was simply stating that I agree with the OP that these are not the most brilliant ingredients one can find in cat food. My cat with food allergies cannot digest grain, My vet advised me to not give her food with corn in it (as this does), nor soybean oil (because no, it is not always the case that soy allergies are unaffected by soybean oil).

All I'm trying to say is if the OP doesn't feel comfortable feeding this food (sharky, you yourself said the ingredients make you ill, so why exactly are you defending it and discouraging the OP from getting a second opinion? that seems a bit contradictory) she should feel free to consult another vet, i.e. try to find one who is not pushing a specific brand that is sold in their office, to see if there are alternative options that she feels more comfortable with. Just as if you are not happy with the treatment a doctor, human or animal, is prescribing, you should seek a second opinion.

I just have a hard time trusting any company that dumps as much money into veterinary education as Hills does. That's a marketing agenda if I've ever seen one.

So, sharky, what would you recommend? That she feed a food she does not trust, that she feels is unnecessarily expensive, and not the best option for her cat just because the vet she happens to currently be seeing prescribed it? Or do you feel she should try to locate one of the vets you yourself say have been able to see past the reps and may be more suited to helping her cat without trying to sell a well-marketed product?

I know someone whose vet prescribed a medication that states on the label it is no longer recommended for use in cats because of potential health hazards. Just because a person is a vet does not mean their word is infallible and should always be listened to above common sense. Just as there are good and bad doctors, there are good and bad vets. Personally, if I don't trust what a vet is trying to suggest, I'd rather find a different one than blindly follow the current one.

Originally Posted by sharky

There is alot of science behind them

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And FYI, this is incredibly vague. Do you mean studies sponsored by pet food companies? Because guess what, it's extremely easy to get a study to say whatever you want it to if you try hard enough. The tobacco industry in the US has managed to sponsor several studies showing that cigarette smoking does not increase risk of lung cancer, when anyone with a whiff of common sense knows that it does. Even non-sponsored 3rd party studies often show inconclusive or confusing results due to unknown factors Ex: the famous and often misunderstood Pottenger's cats study that suggested feeding cooked meat always results in health decline, despite the fact that the issue was specifically a lack of taurine in the diet. Yet another study was done showing that raw feeding results in health decline...how can this be? Two studies showing that opposite diets result in the same problem? Well lo and behold the problem was once again taurine...being in lower quantities in rabbits and post-grinding, when ground rabbit was the meat used exclusively in the study.

That's why relying on statistics and studies is not the best practice when deciding what the best option is. It's better to use actual common sense based on an understanding of how things work. I.e. in this case, cat digestion, any specific medical concerns involved, and how those specific ingredients affect those medical conditions. I'd trust specific scientific explanations of that over general studies saying this or that any day.

While I know that some cats can only have a prescription food, I also think sometimes the prescription foods are overprescribed. If you take your pet in with a minor upset tummy, they'll sell you some i/d. If your pet has a bladder infection, they'll automatically want him on c/d. If your pet has some food allergies, oh, just put him on z/d, that'll take care of it (even if the pet is only allergic to corn or something else easily avoided). In those cases, I think it's worth looking around for other foods that may work (or not changing foods at all). But of course there are some animals who NEED the prescription foods, and nothing else will do. The issue is knowing what category your pet is in. That can be tough sometimes.

Originally Posted by Willowy

While I know that some cats can only have a prescription food, I also think sometimes the prescription foods are overprescribed. If you take your pet in with a minor upset tummy, they'll sell you some i/d. If your pet has a bladder infection, they'll automatically want him on c/d. If your pet has some food allergies, oh, just put him on z/d, that'll take care of it (even if the pet is only allergic to corn or something else easily avoided). In those cases, I think it's worth looking around for other foods that may work (or not changing foods at all). But of course there are some animals who NEED the prescription foods, and nothing else will do. The issue is knowing what category your pet is in. That can be tough sometimes.

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this is why Communication with the vet is essential which is what I suggest the OP do... Talk with the vet , voice your concerns and if you have some ideas discuss them... Then if you are still unhappy try another vet

Originally Posted by Willowy

While I know that some cats can only have a prescription food, I also think sometimes the prescription foods are overprescribed. If you take your pet in with a minor upset tummy, they'll sell you some i/d. If your pet has a bladder infection, they'll automatically want him on c/d. If your pet has some food allergies, oh, just put him on z/d, that'll take care of it (even if the pet is only allergic to corn or something else easily avoided). In those cases, I think it's worth looking around for other foods that may work (or not changing foods at all). But of course there are some animals who NEED the prescription foods, and nothing else will do. The issue is knowing what category your pet is in. That can be tough sometimes.

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Thank you, yes, this is what I'm trying to say. It's exactly the same with human doctors. I have one doctor who is eager to toss whatever prescriptions they can at me (prescribing strep throat meds for a sore throat with no strep test or even a basic throat examination to confirm white patches, for example). I prefer doctors, and vets, who are more conservative about prescribing medications or special diets, doing so only when necessary, and offer clear, well-supported reasoning behind their decision and are able and willing to explain this reasoning to me.

I outright had someone insist that I ought to try a prescription (corn-filled) diet for my cat Athena when it was becoming very obvious that corn was a serious problem for her. Thank goodness I have a fantastic primary vet who is educated and concerned about the health of my pets beyond what any Hills (or other premium company that sells prescription food) recommends. And her suggestions to put my pet on a (less expensive!) non-prescription food not sold by their office were what solved my pet's issues.

I say again that if a prescription food does help someone's cat then yes, they should use that food. But again, don't assume that just because a vet prescribes it, it must be the cure. Because that's not always the case.

Originally Posted by sharky

this is why Communication with the vet is essential which is what I suggest the OP do... Talk with the vet , voice your concerns and if you have some ideas discuss them... Then if you are still unhappy try another vet

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See, this is what I was trying to say in the first place, so I'm not sure why the condescending replies (that you seem to love so much) were necessary. I don't know if you have a problem with me specifically or what, but this seems to be a pattern. I post something, you post a reply saying that I'm wrong, and then when I explain what I'm trying to say and ask you to clarify yourself, you ignore my explanation/questions but post another reply basically echoing what I just said without acknowledging that perhaps your criticism of my reply was unfair and/or unfounded.

I really don't understand it. Nor does it make me feel particularly comfortable around here. Especially when all I'm trying to do is help.

I just wanted to point something out here... I am curious if you know the history of what is going on with Belle and how sick she has been, how serious this situation is?
Belle has spent some days at the vet's office recently, had an awful struggle not eating, and was a very sick little girl. This vet and her mom worked really hard to bring her back to health... They have her history better than anyone, and this diet is part of her treatment plan. This is serious stuff here... This is not just another food for another cat... Belle is sick, she is undergoing treatment, and this food is part of the treatment.
While you might have a different opinion about diet, and that is ok, nobody knows Belle's history better than her vet. And nobody has successfully treated Belle as well as her vet has.
As I said before, one needs to be careful when speaking about prescription diets, as there is a whole history behind that situation that has to be taken into consideration...

Originally Posted by Carolina

I just wanted to point something out here... I am curious if you know the history of what is going on with Belle and how sick she has been, how serious this situation is?
Belle has spent some days at the vet's office recently, had an awful struggle not eating, and was a very sick little girl. This vet and her mom worked really hard to bring her back to health... They have her history better than anyone, and this diet is part of her treatment plan. This is serious stuff here... This is not just another food for another cat... Belle is sick, she is undergoing treatment, and this food is part of the treatment.
While you might have a different opinion about diet, and that is ok, nobody knows Belle's history better than her vet. And nobody has successfully treated Belle as well as her vet has.
As I said before, one needs to be careful when speaking about prescription diets, as there is a whole history behind that situation that has to be taken into consideration...

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Yes, of course history is relevant. I never suggested otherwise. I'll repeat, I specifically said that if a prescription food was helping the cat, or the cat wasn't eating anything else, then of course they should be getting that food. Everyone seems to be ignoring my conditional statement there and assuming I'm saying you should never ever feed Hills.

I don't know why I have to keep repeating myself. Apparently I have a problem with being clear? I was just saying that if someone is unhappy with the treatment their pet is receiving or the meds/food being prescribed, then a second opinion is certainly warranted. If that second opinion yields the same results, well there you go, do what is best for the pet obviously! But if another vet offers an alternative that works that the owner is also more comfortable with, then that's also certainly worth exploring in the future!

Of course the most important thing with a cat that is starving is to eat something. Even if it's the crappiest food on the market. If it's a slightly better food, even better, even if it's expensive and not 100% perfect. I'm not arguing against that. It just seemed like the OP was really not happy with this food and wanted to eventually switch off it, so I was agreeing that it's worth exploring alternatives if there are viable alternatives.

Thing is, she is not unhappy, she just stated it costs $55...

Perhaps I misunderstood then, but it sounded like she was also displeased with the ingredients and expressed a desire to eventually switch to a different food.

But anyway, I think I've clarified what I was trying to say now. I apologize for misunderstandings. By no means do I think someone should go off the advice of a vet when it's actually helping their cat. Perhaps the original situation was unclear to me. Although I don't particularly appreciate the condescending way people seem to express their disagreement around here. I don't see why that's necessary. I assume most of us are mature adults and can have a conversation without stooping to that level?

But I'm tired of arguing and need to get some sleep.

She said eventually she will change for better ingredients, but her posts clearly shows an understands of the need for the diet IMHO, especially if you know the history of what happened to Belle.

She says in there there is no negative point to the post, she is not complaining, she is just stating her amazement with the price of the food.

Anyways, in the end, we all, including her vet, just want what is best for Belle.

Sorry folks...didn't mean to start a debate here.

Definitely know the whole "prescription diets serve a purpose" idea, which is why I fed it to Belle in the first place. She got better, although I do not at all attribute it to the food change (more the prednisolone). However, since she is now transitioned over, I don't plan on changing it for a while (not sure how long, as we're having some stinky poop issues in our house, but I won't know until we get our wet food situation sorted out). And when it comes time, I will be consulting the vet and expressing my concerns.

saitenyo, I actually do understand your point of view. I too, am skeptical of ANYTHING made by Hills. To me, a company that makes crap like Science Diet (which most on here agrees is crap) and passes it off as the best food in the planet, isn't all that trustworthy, even if they have managed to get themselves into the vet by making prescription diets. I also do understand that MANY people have had huge success with prescription diets. IMO, ingredients only matter if your cat does well on the food and it serves the purpose. If I knew this was the only food that was going to help me avoid the whole ordeal we went through with Belle ever happening again, I would 100% suck up the cost and feed it for the rest of her life.

I DO have concerns with her "diagnosis" and the fact that the food was given to me as if the Orijen I was feeding was the cause of all our issues (despite 2 healthy years on the food) and that this miracle food was going to make her better. I'm also not convinced she has IBD, since no further tests to prove so were ever discussed. Frankly, I'm just happy to have her healthy and eating again. The rest, I will worry about later on. Perhaps with the vet we worked with at my current clinic (not the vet who actually sent me home with the food, but the one who treated Belle), or perhaps with a vet at another clinic. I have yet to make that decision.

My post really was just an moment of disbelief at the cost of ANY food, let alone one full of corn. And, the tiny size of the "big bag"! I do realize that I am paying for the "prescription" part of it - ie. the science, the name, the exclusivity.

I appreciate the concern, as well as the suggestions for coupons and switching options. When the time comes, these will come in valuable.