Guys really suck -rant, and advice please?

ut0pia

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So one of my good girlfriends is having issues with this guy, C. She has been venting to me about him for the longest time- basically they were just roommates and they just fell in love unexpectedly, and now she feels like she wants a long term relationship with him, and it seemed like they were headed that way, but now it seems like the guy is backing out. He isn't telling her anything directly though, he is still treating her like he cares a lot about her and wants to be with her, but she is really annoyed at little things she asks him to do, like not to get drink alcohol if she needs him for something, that he refuses to do.

Anyway, last night C.calls me and asks if he can confide in me. He is also my old friend from high school, and we have been having this really fun flirty friendship that's basically just us joking ever since. So, he tells me he doesn't want to be with her long term, and he tells me that I know him better than most people and I know that he always just goes with the flow of things and doesn't want to upset people, so he has basically been leading her on, and he feels awful about it. Then he goes on to say that he is prone to infidelity, so he knows he will disappoint her. I was just baffled and sad to hear something like this from him- so I ask him, do you never plan to be in a long term monogamous relationship?? He says, yes he does, but the thing with my friend was never meant to be that, he says he was surprised he was able to co exist with her and then before he realized he fell for her....

Excuse the rant but, to to most of us girls falling in love spontaneously is so romantic and fun. But apparently to guys, it just means that it's a fling that won't last???? This just confirms that guys are wayy too grounded and pragmatic when it comes to love and relationships, and to me that's the worst thing ever! If I'm pragmatic about most of my life, relationships is where I'm the opposite, I prefer things to be spontaneous and maybe I'm a bit too idealistic, to a point where I don't even "date" - I just wait for someone who is single but happy by himself, loves animals, and is sweet and caring to come into my life and for things to naturally progress into something like a lifetime of passionate love, lol...And what really saddens me, is the fact that my friend C. is such a great guy, he is really smart, and expresses his feelings so well and so easily which is also rare for guys!! But here he is treating my friend so badly
Anyway hearing him and my own personal experiences just depresses me. I know most of you girls on here are married or in relationships so you will likely jump in and say you're wrong, the perfect guy exists I'm married to him
But I just feel the need to rant about this lol..

Anyway, so my friend C. is basically saying he is not ready for a relationship, he just wants to make her happy for as long as he can, and fulfill most, but not all of her desires.
I just feel sooo bad that he's doing this to her, while she has been asking herself, analyzing his every action and trying to figure out if he truly loves her or if she's just fun for him. And I mean she's really been going crazy with that, like she doesn't even get any sleep over it! And here is where I have to ask for advice- do I tell her what he told me, since he asked me if he can confide in me I feel like I shouldn't' say anything, but my heart is breaking for my girl friend
I want to yell at him and tell him to please just tell her how he feels and just end everything that's going on between them, but that will probably just antagonize him, and I don't want to lose him as a friend either
 

kluchetta

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Oh my gosh that is such a tough situation to be in the middle of!

At first I was going to say I didn't have any advice, but I do have an analogy. You know, it's almost like if you are friends with a couple that one of them is cheating, and you don't know what to do...tell the other one? Don't tell because it will hurt them?

Most of the time, the other person DOES know, just not admitting it to themselves. And that is what your girlfriend seems to be doing. She sees the signals. She knows something isn't right, otherwise she would not be analyzing everything that he does.

I think I would just tell him to get it over with and tell her. It's not helping anything, just "going with the flow"...he's not keeping her from being hurt - if anything its passive-aggressive. You might threaten to tell her for him, but I wouldn't go through with it. Make him do his own dirty work, and be there for her afterwards.

You are a good friend.
 

carolina

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Yes, being in the middle sucks, but the fact that he doesn't want a long term relationship with her doesn't make him a bad guy... He is young and has a long road ahead of him...
You do need to be careful however, to not damage your friendship with either one of them. So, here is a word of advice that can save you some grief

Choice #1: Stay completely out of it, tell them upfront you are friends of both, and you will listen to both, advise to both, but will not carry back and forth information.
Choice #2: Tell him you are very good friends with her, and if he doesn't get straight with her, you will tell her what his game is yourself, as you can't see her suffering and for something that is going nowhere.
or choice #3: Tell him be aware that whatever he tells you will potentially get to her.

Whatever you do, be upfront with your decision and you will keep both of your friendships... I have great friends who are archenemies
, and I manage by just doing the #1. Both confide on me, but I never ever carry through information, and I love both dearly...

Men don't suck... Human beings come in all "sizes, shapes and forms", it doesn't matter if they are men or woman... There is nothing more pathetic than a man completely in love... Yes, they can get even worst than us!
 

ducman69

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My advice, outside of France and Utah relationships are between two people, so for all us third parties, 'nunyas' rules apply. Get in the middle, and you just get caught in any crossfire (potentially from both).

I'm sympathetic to the guy personally, as I've been there, done that. Think about it, you don't want to be cruel, and if a girl you are with drops a "I love you", its awkward and counterproductive just throwing out a polite "thanks". So you say it back, and you enjoy being together and things are fun, but then so many start pretending like you're already engaged... w-w-w-whaaaaat? How do you shoot that down without making her feel bad or even ending the relationship, especially if you're a people-pleaser?

So not really the guy's (or gal's) fault if the other gets all clingy and starts making assumptions about the future. BTW, pro-tip: ALL healthy men are prone to infidelity, its nature. Some just have less opportunity or more self-control!
 

emrldsky

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Nuh uh...might give me away!
I've always told my male friends to be HONEST with any female they're currently having problems with. There has only been one instance where a friend actually listened and you know what? The girl was sooo grateful to be told the TRUTH that they managed to have a really good friendship.

The ones that never listened to that advice? It always got messy. Always.

Yes, it can hurt to hear the truth, but in the end, it's much better to KNOW what's going on than guess.

As for your involvement? I'd stay out of it. He confided in you, and you don't say if there was any instance where you told him that you were going to talk to your friend. I think it's important to keep confidences where you can, and seeing as you two are also friends, I would just keep being a sounding board and not get directly involved.

Btw, it might take DH a bit of time to figure out what he wants to say, but he and I are always communicating with one another about things. Sometimes we have to pull the other aside and ask what's going on, but we're always honest, even if it can hurt. Our marriage is really strong because of that.
 

3catsn1dog

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It sucks being monkey in the middle.


I would tell her, without breaking his confidence, that maybe she needs to just try and not take things seriously and try and just relax about it and take what he says with a grain of salt.

Not that guys are perfect and never act like boogers when it comes to relationships but sometimes girls can get too attached to something where there is no definition and because they do that can actually push what they want further from them.

I would also tell the guy though that he really needs to be honest with her because he will very likely ruin their friendship and then to top it off stick you in the middle of having to choose whos side you are one. Do you defend the girl or the guy?
 

Winchester

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I think I'd tell C that he has to figure out what he wants and then he should talk to your GF and be honest with her. It's not fair to your GF to always be wondering what the heck is going on.....although she may already realize that the relationship is not what she thought it was.

But I don't think it's up to you to talk to your GF. That can get really messy and ugly. He needs to be the one to tell her how he feels. If you feel the need to say something to her, just tell her that maybe she should tone things down a little bit. But it's not your responsibility to tell her that he's not in love with her; that's his responsibility.

Just my two (or three) cents.
 

kailie

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You know, a lot of guys DO suck. A lot of girls do too though. It's just the way it is. There are amazing people out there, but they're not easy to find. You just have to be patient and not willing to settle. It took me a long time to get to that point in my life, but I'm so glad I did.


C doesn't sound like a bad guy, a little immature maybe. He really DOES need to be honest with your friend though and stop wasting her time. If they want different things, then they both need to move on with their lives. Life is too short.

I hope it all works out hun.
 

northernglow

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I don't have an advice to offer, I just wanted to say that I can relate to your girl friend... I was just lead on by someone who then just dumped me out of the blue. He was the one who started it and wanted to go out, of course I was stupid enough to fall for him. He even told me he loved me (I hadn't said anything and we had been avoiding those words) and after that we haven't seen each other because "he's been busy". I don't get it.. It's been 2 months now and I got the impression that he has been seeing other women during this time. And he still haven't told me he's not interested anymore.
So yeah, at this moment guys definitely suck. And I want to kick myself.
 

gardenandcats

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I'd have a talk with the guy and tell him he has a couple of weeks to tell your girlfriend .And if he doesn't then you will..
 

natalie_ca

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Remove yourself from the middle of this.

Tell him that he needs to sit down and talk to her.

Tell her that she needs to sit down and talk to him.

They need to communicate their thoughts and feelings to each other. Telling you is doing nothing but making you uncomfortable.

The first thing that jumped out at me was the fact that she is already trying to change him....IE: tells him to stop drinking. Most guys (or anyone for that matter) do not want to be "changed". She needs to accept people the way they are and not try to change them. I suspect her clingy behaviour is a factor in why he doesn't want to be involved with her long term.

Anyway, get out of the middle and tell them they need to sit down together and have an open heart-to-heart conversation because communication is the key to any relationship be it romantic or friendship.
 

natalie_ca

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Originally Posted by gardenandcats

I'd have a talk with the guy and tell him he has a couple of weeks to tell your girlfriend .And if he doesn't then you will..
I disagree. This is between the couple. And they need to deal with it themselves.
 
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ut0pia

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Thanks guys. It's kind of sad that I've been avoiding my girl friend lately because I'd just hate to hear more of her venting while secretly I know what's going on and she doesn't

But, I haven't said anything to her, and I don't plan to.
She really IS trying to change him. Even before they were dating, she would get upset at him because he went downtown with a friend of his rather than waiting for her, and little things like this. I always told her to just make up her mind and if she isn't happy with what he's doing to just back away from him rather than trying to make him fit her ideal of the right guy, but she just didn't seem to grasp the concept. She's a bit selfish and spoiled in that sense, but I'm sure she will learn eventually.

The thing is, I'm really sympathetic with her, because while I've learned from past mistakes of my own, I have been in a situation like her and it's just so painful, to have your whole world upside down because you aren't sure what's going on and the person you are 100% sure you want to be with more than anything is making you confused. I've tried hard not to do what she's doing and not try to change the guy or expect things out of him, and I've been conscious of this the entire time, but it really can be so sad to go through all of that, to put all of your energy into trying to make something work, and not only get nothing back, but learn that your genuine efforts have been wasted. In fact, I think it hurts even more when you've done the right thing and respected the guy's choices, haven't been overly clingy and never tried to change him, because then you feel even more like you've been stabbed in the heart, because you have nothing to blame yourself for.

So, this whole thing has just really upset me, I've been thinking about it soo much and relating it back to experiences of my own. I really, really hope she is okay after this, because she broke up with her boyfriend to be with this guy, and now she doesn't have a car and walks to class which is really far. She thought it'd be okay because she would have the person she loves, but I can't imagine her struggling so much and dealing with all those sad emotions...I guess all of this will teach her a lesson and she will be a lot more careful in the future, so that's a good thing. But still, I hate for her to be going through all this.
 

MoochNNoodles

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Just my opinion...but I think someone needs to grow up and put on his big boy pants! He is only thinking of himself by leading her on! I have a lot more I would like to say...but I just can't go there right now. Stuff like this just makes me mad.
 

ducman69

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Originally Posted by MoochNNoodles

Just my opinion...but I think someone needs to grow up and put on his big boy pants! He is only thinking of himself by leading her on! I have a lot more I would like to say...but I just can't go there right now. Stuff like this just makes me mad.
As a guy, how do you "lead someone on"? There are plenty of women that just want a boyfriend or even just casual hookups so they have their freedom, so if he never had a conversation with her about getting married and having kids and all that jazz (which it sounds like he probably didn't) and just enjoys their time together and treats her well, that hardly seems like being misleading IMO.

Its also much easier to answer a directed question coming from her about the future than it is for him to bring it up out of the blue from his side without it sounding like hurtful rejection telling her out of the blue that he likes her but has no plans on spending their whole future together.
 

carolina

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Originally Posted by Ducman69

Its also much easier to answer a directed question coming from her about the future than it is for him to bring it up out of the blue from his side without it sounding like hurtful rejection telling her out of the blue that he likes her but has no plans on spending their whole future together.
IMHO it is not about what is easier, it is about what is right. If he was man enough, he would just say it. But he isn't... he is taking the immature, easiest, most convenient path and using this as an excuse to just stay in the situation. Well, man up and say it. It is going to hurt a quite a bit for a while, but it will pass... But if he doesn't (only for his own benefit IMHO) this will drag on hurting for much longer, ties will get tighter, and the pain in the end will be much worst.
 

carolina

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Originally Posted by Ducman69

I'm sympathetic to the guy personally, as I've been there, done that. Think about it, you don't want to be cruel, and if a girl you are with drops a "I love you", its awkward and counterproductive just throwing out a polite "thanks". So you say it back, and you enjoy being together and things are fun,
I would rather 1,000 times have a real man who tells me "ok, lets have a conversation right now"; or "I can't say that to you now, but when I do, I will mean it", or simply say nothing, than have someone make me believe they love me only to have me fall on my face later on. And yes, that has happened to me, and yes, I waited and I got my sincere "I love you". But then, I was dealing with a man, not a boy; I didn't have a problem waiting and was totally worth it!

Originally Posted by Ducman69

So not really the guy's (or gal's) fault if the other gets all clingy and starts making assumptions about the future. BTW, pro-tip: ALL healthy men are prone to infidelity, its nature. Some just have less opportunity or more self-control!
And here is an eye opener for you guys: ALL healthy human beings, women included, are prone to infidelity, its nature. Don't go thinking for a minute that women have any less "heat" than man on that department, because we don't. We are just more selective and have more common sense and self respect. But it is pretty head to head. Just sayin'
 

ducman69

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Originally Posted by Carolina

And here is an eye opener for you guys: ALL healthy human beings, women included, are prone to infidelity, its nature. Don't go thinking for a minute that women have any less "heat" than man on that department, because we don't. We are just more selective and have more common sense and self respect. But it is pretty head to head. Just sayin'
True, true, but the number of gentleman's clubs compared to ladies' clubs leads me to believe there is at least a bit of an imbalance on the hormone side between the sexes.
 
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ut0pia

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Originally Posted by Carolina

And here is an eye opener for you guys: ALL healthy human beings, women included, are prone to infidelity, its nature. Don't go thinking for a minute that women have any less "heat" than man on that department, because we don't. We are just more selective and have more common sense and self respect. But it is pretty head to head. Just sayin'

What appalled me was that my guy friend was willing to avoid a relationship just because he knew he would cheat somewhere down the line and disappoint the girl...But, I guess it's part of him not being interested, and just another excuse to stay out of a relationship with her!!

And I totally agree about him not being man enough to tell her that he doesn't feel the same way about her, as she obviously does for him. That's what bothers me so much to begin with. He claims he cares too much about her to not disappoint her, it's all just excuses because it's obvious that she will appreciate knowing how he feels so much more than living a lie!! She will be sooo much more hurt and disappointed when she one day realizes the truth.
 
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ut0pia

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Originally Posted by Ducman69

As a guy, how do you "lead someone on"? There are plenty of women that just want a boyfriend or even just casual hookups so they have their freedom, so if he never had a conversation with her about getting married and having kids and all that jazz (which it sounds like he probably didn't) and just enjoys their time together and treats her well, that hardly seems like being misleading IMO.

Its also much easier to answer a directed question coming from her about the future than it is for him to bring it up out of the blue from his side without it sounding like hurtful rejection telling her out of the blue that he likes her but has no plans on spending their whole future together.
Basically she is always there for him whenever he wants to hang out with her, to do anything with her- she is there. She never misses an opportunity to be with him, makes so many sacrifices just to get time with him. Him, on the other hand- he only sees her whenever he has some free time in between other things. It's just sooo plain and obvious that she is crazy about him, and for him she's just a diversion. And when he told me so it became certain that's exactly the case! I think this is what is driving her crazy, she notices this, but he keeps telling her that he does care about her a lot, he wants to do nothing but try to make her happy as much as he can, etc every time she asks him how he feels and where he sees things going in the future for them. Of course, they don't talk about marriage, they're both 22 and in college, so you just don't talk about that at this point. But, when he tells her he cares about her and wants to stay with her and make her happy, that makes her feel like she should believe him and stay in this relationship rather than move on and become aware that she won't get what she needs out of him, and she is investing too much and not getting anything in return in the relationship.
 
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