I'm new: thank you and request for advice on barn cats!

Hello All,
Just a note to say hello and how grateful I am for all the tidbits of advice I've gleaned from this site.
I adopted a couple of feral girls (about 2ish years old) from a fab local shelter in October. I live on a smallish farm (about 40 acres - I don't farm it myself, but rent the cottages, have two big gardens and have free access to a couple of barns) and got the cats as I was getting fed up with rodent problems - predominantly mice, but the odd nasty-looking big old rat seen lurking around too.
After following all the instructions from the local shelter about keeping them in an acclimitisation area for a few weeks, the girls (Ruby and Cow...both b/w and 'fixed', but Cow - I know, it's unladylike - has much more white on her, hence her name!) have now had free run of the farm for about 10 weeks. The mouse problem seems to have disappeared, the numbers of rabbits that were causing havoc in the veg patch has declined and, unlike every other property around here, we aren't plagued by moles. So they are more than earning their keep - I never get presented any 'catches', but the lack of critters convinces me that they are doing their job!
Why I've been looking over this site is that, soft old thing that I clearly am becoming, I've grown awfully fond of the girls! I work from home fairly frequently and have spent many hours watching them from my office window as they go about their business. Ruby seems to be a real nightbird who rarely ventures out during the day, but Cow is terrific fun, always popping her little head out from the barns, grazing on her food and running around like a big kitten. Neither of them is remotely socialised - they are feral as feral gets without being aggressive towards me (in the 3 weeks they were acclimatising, they mostly hid when I went in to their hut to change the litter and put the food and water out). I really don't want to domesticate them as I'm actually a little allergic to dander. But I would love to get them a little friendlier, probably to the stage whereby they will come up and say hello when I'm preparing their food. As a boy, my farmer grandpa had a load of barn cats and most of them made a beeline for him when he came out to feed them, which was lovely to see and would be just dandy for me!
Lots of small steps are being made: both girls (particularly Cow) have watched me from afar - about 40 feet! - on a couple of occasions when I've been preparing their food. Moreover, in the last few days I've been able to sit down on the floor (England in January isn't the warmest place, but hey, I'm following thoughts from on this site!) in one of the barns about 30 feet away from them and have a little chat for about 5 minutes with each of them in turn. (Note they don't socialise at all even though they were a bonded pair - Ruby seems to be the dominant one and I've seen her chase Cow on a number of occasions over, I'm guessing, territory transgressions). They seem to accept me having a little natter with them in this way, and I see it as progress - it used to be that, even if I was 40 feet away, if they saw me come out the door they'd dash for the safety of the hiding places they have in the barns.
I'm guessing it's just a matter of patience (and food!), but if anyone has any useful tips for 'making a barn cat a bit friendlier - but not too much!' then I'd be grateful.
The other query I have is over adding to their number. There's a big part of me would love to get a couple more from the shelter as I think I can offer ferals a fantastic, fun farm lifestyle (with plenty of food, water and roofs under which to sleep). But the less soppy and more practical side of me is concerned about upsetting the status quo with Ruby and Cow; I couldn't forgive myself if they decided to up sticks if a couple of interlopers tried to join the gang!
Good grief, I've rabbited on. If you're still awake, any advice appreciated. And thanks again for all the great posts and stories on here.

I think you're on the right track. I would sit down and watch them eat, gradually moving closer. Back away (scoot on butt if you have to--don't stand up) immediately if the cats act nervous. Every movement you make should be in slow motion. With the stray/feral cats I'm feeding I try to announce what I'm going to do in advance, such as "NOISE!" when I am throwing away the cans of cat food. And tell them I am "getting up now, awkwardly". They don't know English, but they do know tone after a while.
When they get more comfortable with you, you can try to up offer them really really good food (chicken, beef) or treats and see if they will move even closer.
Good luck and have patience--it is rewarding.
PS: I am trying to find barns for some of the feral cats/kittens in the colony I've been feeding since April 2010. Not having much luck.

posted in the wrong place- sorry about that

MA

Ritz/ Hissy - thanks for the replies.
Think you missed an important part of my note (my fault for making it so long and unwieldy)...namely that I'm in England/ the UK!
I'd love to help! But I better stick local - still umming and ahhing over whether to get a couple more from the shelter round here. As per original post, I would feel like a 'bad Dad' if I put two new cats in with my two and they fought, caused anxiety or, potentially, one group drove one another off, if you know what I mean. It may all become moot as, in the few hours between my posts, I've found I'm likely to be away on business a fair amount this year, which means a definite no, as the others in the household/ neighbours will definitely only have time to look after Ruby and Cow.

Most of the barns out here in Northwest Illinois are innudated with too many cats and not most are not getting enough food!!! So many people also dump unwanted poor little souls off at these barns as well.

It sounds like a feral cat's dream though to be at your place . You are giving Ruby and Cow (great name ) a great life at your farm and take good care of them . If you were to add another cat or two, my suggestion would be to keep them in a large wire dog crate (only do this if you have an indoor barn area where it is warmer) for at least a couple of weeks so they can see the other two cats come and go. And then Ruby and Cow can come in and sniff at them as they get used to seeing these newby's in the crate. And they will get more curious about them especially if you feed all the cats near eachother. Doing it this way will ensure that the new cats will feel safe in their new territory and will make your resident feral's feel more comfortable with the new cats smells over those few weeks.

Although, since you are going to be away alot this year, I would just keep the two cats you have and keep the peace. It will take a little time and patience to introduce some new farm cats but it can be done easily.

It sounds like heaven for them! THANK YOU for adopting feral kitties for your barns!

I don't know what to suggest about adding more kitties. Adding cats always upsets the status quo for a little while - and in our experience, adding cats is much harder with females than with males. IF you're going to add cats, I would definitely look for males. Also, being principally outside kitties, it seems to me there's plenty of territory for them to claim. We live in an RV with 8 feral rescues, and it works! For our indoor-only kitties, what makes it work is stimulation, not space. For your outdoor kitties, they'd have both, so I'm pretty sure they'd work it out. We trap, sterilize, and release (called TNR for trap, neuter, release, just in case you're not familiar) feral cats. The kittens don't get released, but go into a foster network, get socialized and adopted out. But the older cats get released back outside. (We live in an RV park on a large working farm). We have 7 in our colony currently, and there are only two that seem to kind of hang out together, and one dominant pissy female - when she comes to eat, if anyone else is around, they back off, let her eat, and then come back. The rest are pretty friendly to each other.

When they're sterilized, they don't have those raging hormones that make them all so crazy, and that helps a LOT.

So after all of that... I guess I'm saying go for it! Add a couple of males that are more socialized than your girls.

As to getting them to be a little more social - use food! They're hunting because they love it and are "programmed" to do it - and if they're eating regular meals, it won't stop their hunting. When we feed the ferals here, we do it at the same time each morning and evening. We put out bowls of canned food, and we put out bowls of dry food for them to free feed on throughout the day. Because of wildlife, we never leave food out overnight. But when we put it out, we meow numerous times really loudly - and the regular schedule gets them waiting for us - and time does the rest. They now start eating when we're still out there cleaning their water and such. But a canned food really appeals to them - it also helps prevent dehydration, because cats generally aren't naturally water drinkers. Food is really your best friend in the process.

So that, combined with the other tips to just sit quietly, move slowly, and be down at their level - that's really what you can do when you're dealing with outside kitties. Hang out while they eat.

You can get a t-shirt really good and stinky, and put it under their food dishes. This will help them associate your scent with "good" things.

Also, if you do adopt two more social cats, the girls will learn from them that you're not a threat. That's our best "weapon," in fact, when it comes to socialization - the new cats watching us interact with the socialized ones.

My fault- little sleep and I just skimmed your post. But to help make them more comfortable with you, set up a schedule with them and stick to it- food and water at the same times every day- soon they will set their inner clock to your schedule and appear before the food comes out as they will wait for it. It also helps to have them on a routine, it just makes cats more at ease.

There will always be outdoor cats in need of barns - but Laurie is right, any cats introduced to a group indoors or out can cause stress in the resident cats. Always good to proceed with caution and not let the numbers get out of control.

Hello again everyone. Thanks for all the great advice - I'm taking it all onboard and will keep you posted.
Couple of bits more info from this end:
1) definitely won't be taking any more ferals just at the moment. Basically work is going to take me away quite a bit and I'd want to be around plenty to ensure any newbies are settling in. Part of me is sad about this, but I know I'm doing the right thing for now, particularly as I run my own company and the contract that's taking me away will mean I can give a nice donation to the local shelter. Moreover, it means I can channel my energies into making Cow and Ruby's stay even more rewarding - just yesterday I 'opened up' one of the little huts (actually, it's a big old dog kennel) they didn't have access to, cleaned it out and filled it with straw. Put a little dish of food in and they seem to have found it. It looks really cosy.
2) befriending these two will be trickier over coming months because of being away a fair amount, but I intend to do my best (fret not, if I'm not around I have people who'll cover their feeding). In terms of the when, what and where of feeding the girls, as they is clearly critical to their progress, info as follows:
* between 8-9 every morning (sometimes a little later at weekends - am only human!), pretty much within 30 minutes of sunrise, I put their food and drink out. I don't take it in at all - there aren't really any dangers to cats in the England from predators and, moreover, our days are still very short at the moment - about 8-9 hours of daylight tops
* liquid-wise, each gets a bowlful of water (not that they seem to have much to do with it) and about 50ml of special cat milk. This is virtually lactose-free, low fat and they love it - I started serving it because I realised they weren't drinking much water. It's a very small serving - not a lot more milk than you or I would put in a coffee or tea
* solids-wise, each gets a 100g pouch of wet (generally meaty, but they'll have a fishy one at a push) and some dry. In terms of dry, I basically fill a pint glass up with dry food and give them half each! There's then the odd treat at weekends, such as the dish of stinky food I put in their new hut yesterday. Before I adopted them, they were on a dry food only diet. If I ever get the chance to check their food dishes durinng the day, it seems they devour most of the wet first and then come back for the dry 2-3 times during the day. Although Cow seems to be in and out of her feeding area all the time, including this precise moment as I'm typing (sadly, it's about 50ft away from me). BTW, calling her Cow is really a little unfair as she's basically a tuxedo and the spitting image of Presley, but as she comes out of her hidey-hole in the barn or when she's watching us, all I can see is the big white chest!
* I actually feed in two places. One is the little hut in which they were acclimatised. This in one of the side gardens. The other is in a little cat box from the Happy Hutch company (gorgeous - www.happyhutch.co.uk), which is under a lean-to at the entrance to the barn. I initially got the box because of the fierce weather, as it meant saving them having to trudge through the snow for their food. I originally only put dry in this box. However, as the weather became milder, it was evident that Ruby was pigging all the wet from the hut, leaving Cow to live off the dry in the box! Anyway, the arrangement is I leave identical food and drink rations in each location and that seems to do the trick. True, I've seen Ruby (very much the boss cat) go into Cow's box, but I've also seen her sniff it, make the mental note that 'ooh, I bet I've got that in my hut, too' and saunter off to the garden.
Anyway, coming back to the matter in hand, whilst Ruby has let me get closer (about 6ft on Friday, while she was sitting on some straw in one of the back barns), I think it'll be Cow I try with first and so I'll adopt all the tricks you guys have mentioned over the coming weeks and keep you posted on progress. Given how much we'll be out and about around the farm this summer, it really would be great if the girls became more comfortable with us as otherwise they'll spend their lives in the barn rather than out in the beautiful English spring and summer!

I love the Happy Hutches!! For me out here in the cold midwest, we have a company who makes winterized shelters called Feral Villas. I built my own this year but next year I plan on getting my ferals one of the Villas.

Let me say you are on the right path with Ruby and Cow. The fact that Ruby lets you get about six feet away is very telling. Eventually you should be able to slowly crouch and move closer to her when she eats and even begin petting at that point. It does take many, many days or weeks for this process. And Cow will see you interacting that way with Ruby and start to feel safer around you too.

We had a feral at a horse barn that was very reclusive for about three years. Now she shows herself everyday at feeding and seems to like hear my voice each day. After three years, she now comes within two feet and meows while I put her food down. I am not saying it will take your two this long at all. It just depends on the personality. Even normal house cats can have very shy and timid personalities. Ruby and Cow know you are the one caring for them and they are starting to trust you. And, trust is what is all about with these ferals. My Magilla now jumps up to bump her head on my face . She is my little Magical Magilla .

Glad you have set up people to come and feed while you are away!! The cats now depend on you each day for their food. The people coming though might not see the cats. On days when I was not at the barn and other's fed Chloe, they never saw her. She only came out when I was there. So Ruby and Cow might be invisible to the people, but will be watching from their hiding place when the people come to feed.

I love the set up!

And you're right - by the end of summer at the latest (my guess), they'll be running to greet you. While sitting near them while they eat and talking softly to them helps, and getting them to associate your scent with food and good things also helps - seeing you just out and about not caring about where they are and what they're doing is also something that helps them understand you mean nothing but good things for them.

Do keep us posted on their progress when you get the chance!

I will, I promise!
So fascinating and rewarding having these two around for the past 3 and a bit months. It's been wonderfully distracting to sit and watch their comings and goings from my office window when I'm working from home. Even just bumping into them whilst I'm wandering around the farm is great. I saw Ruby on her new straw bale - bloody ruined my car, that did! - in the back barn today and gave her a quick hello. And I quite often open the window and have a little chat with the Cow, even if she is 30-40ft away, pottering around the lean-to, sniffing things and catching imaginary mice. Their characters are splendidly different, and I'm sure I'll have lots of stories to tell over the coming months (and hopefully some photos). Even though I've decided against formally adopting any more, part of me is hoping that a couple of strays pitch up over the summer, decide they like it and make it their home. Indeed, if it weren't for a couple of stray cats hanging around from time-to-time last summer (once of which looked very like Ruby...and there's another train of thought to share one day), the thought of getting a couple of ferals wouldn't have entered my mind.
Till next time, thanks again for all the kind words, stay well and go well, as our friends from North of the Border say.