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Congresswoman shot in Tucson

post #1 of 37
1/8/11 at 11:57am
Thread Starter 
Congresswoman Giffords Shot in Tucson

Quote:
Gabrielle Giffords, a congresswoman from Arizona, was shot in the head on Saturday at a public event held at a grocery store in Tucson, her spokesman, C. J. Karamargin, said. . Her condition was unknown. She was taken to University Medical Center in Tucson, the trauma center for the area, about 10 miles away. Even though NPR and CNN reported that she had been killed, Darci Slater, a hospital spokeswoman, said that Ms. Giffords was in surgery.
CNN quoted a public information officer for the sheriff’s office as saying that 12 people had been injured in all and that the shooting had occurred around 10 a.m. local time.
Arizona congresswoman among 12 shot at Tucson grocery
Quote:
At least 12 people were shot at a Tucson grocery store on Saturday, and U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords was among them, a Democratic party source told CNN.

There were conflicting reports about Giffords' condition. Giffords' press secretary said the congresswoman remained in surgery Saturday afternoon for her injuries, disputing an earlier report from a law enforcement source saying she had died.

The party source described the situation as "pretty serious."

At least 11 others were shot in the incident, which happened shortly after 10 a.m. MST, Pima County Sheriff's Department spokesman Jason Ogan said.
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post #2 of 37
1/8/11 at 12:49pm
OMG! Was he actually aiming for her? Or was he just there to shoot anyone?
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post #3 of 37
1/8/11 at 1:46pm
He was aiming for her. He walked up behind her and started shooting. It was crowded. She was doing what she normally does when she goes back to her district - meeting with constituents.

And her district was "targeted" by Sarah Palin's PAC:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_511433.html

This is dangerous stuff. There are loonies all over the place who have guns and look at something like that ("gunsights" and such) and get incited to violence if they don't agree with someone. Granted, there's no proof this is why he did it, but I would bet money it had something to do with it. And it makes my physically sick to my stomach. A 9-year old child was among the victims.

Her district director was also killed.

This is so disturbing and disgusting.

On edit: At first the media was saying it was a 9 month old baby - now saying it was a 9-year old child, which is still heart-breaking....as are the other deaths. May they RIP.
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post #4 of 37
1/8/11 at 2:21pm
There is something chilling to democracy when this happens. The pundits who continue to goad people on with 1/2 baked lies, sound bites to put fear into their followers, will of course say that they had nothing to do with it.

I was very disturbed when I heard about the Punjab governor in Pakistan who was killed by his guard. Now it is happening here.

How can democracy survive when those with opposing opinions to the extremists are threatened and killed?
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post #5 of 37
1/8/11 at 2:39pm
Prayers for all the victims, their families, and for our country...and for those who are filled with hate and fear, that their hearts and minds are opened.
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post #6 of 37
1/8/11 at 3:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nanner View Post
She was doing what she normally does when she goes back to her district - meeting with constituents.
This is heartbreaking nanner. If I were in Congress I would meet my constituents the old fashioned way - via appointment and always indoors with security.

The loon who did this has not only done something horrific, but has also stifled innovative ideas on how to make government run better. Others members of Congress might have heightened fear because of this.
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post #7 of 37
1/8/11 at 3:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by c1atsite View Post
This is heartbreaking nanner. If I were in Congress I would meet my constituents the old fashioned way - via appointment and always indoors with security.

The loon who did this has not only done something horrific, but has also stifled innovative ideas on how to make government run better. Others members of Congress might have heightened fear because of this.
What you say is very true.
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post #8 of 37
1/8/11 at 5:17pm
I'm liking this Sheriff Dupnik as a representative of law in Arizona. He sounds like the sort of sheriff we'd all be proud of. Maybe something good will come out of this dreadful day if more people like Dupnik speak up and are taken seriously.
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post #9 of 37
1/8/11 at 8:44pm
This is truly a tragedy, and it makes me both sad and angry especially to hear of the child. My thoughts go out to all the victims.

And I just pray that people will stop trying to politicize the actions of what by all accounts is a psychotic irrational person to push their agendas, with everything from terrorist conspiracy theories, nonsense laying blame on disliked political opponents, saying its a sign of how angry America is about the healthcare bill forced on them, and pushing pro (so people could have defended themselves) and anti (keep gun out of assailants hands) gun positions that I've read all over the web.

This was just a deranged individual.
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post #10 of 37
1/9/11 at 8:49am
Thread Starter 
In Attack’s Wake, Political Repercussions

Six people are dead, nineteen wounded, four victims are in critical condition and five in serious condition. The shooter was apparently emotionally disturbed:
Quote:
Mr. Loughner had exhibited increasingly strange behavior in recent months, including ominous Internet postings — at least one showing a gun — and a series of videos in which he made disjointed statements on topics like the gold standard and mind control.
Pima Community College said he had been suspended for conduct violations and withdrew in October after five instances of classroom or library disruptions that involved the campus police.
Arizona Suspect’s Recent Acts Offer Hints of Alienation

Quote:
Jared Lee Loughner had become increasingly erratic in recent months, so much so that others around him began to worry.
He had posted on his Myspace page at some point a photograph of a United States history textbook, on top of which he had placed a handgun. He prepared a series of Internet videos filled with rambling statements on topics including the gold standard, mind control and SWAT teams. And he had started to act oddly during his classes at Pima Community College, causing unease among other students.

That behavior, along with a disturbing video, prompted school administrators to call in Mr. Loughner’s parents and tell them that their son had been suspended and would have to get a mental health evaluation to return to college. Instead, he dropped out in October, a spokesman for the college said.
Shot US congresswoman Giffords in 'critical condition'

Quote:
Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik said a consuming atmosphere of political vitriol centred on Arizona may have been a factor.
"The anger, the hatred, the bigotry that goes on in this country is getting to be outrageous," he said. "And unfortunately, Arizona, I think, has become the capital. We have become the Mecca for prejudice and bigotry."
This anger had spilled into violence before, with Ms Giffords' office being vandalised last March after she upset Arizona conservatives by supporting Mr Obama's healthcare reform bill.
Sheriff Dupnik said the congresswoman had been threatened by someone with a gun during her re-election campaign in November, adding that there had been other threats.
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post #11 of 37
1/9/11 at 11:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducman69 View Post
This is truly a tragedy, and it makes me both sad and angry especially to hear of the child. My thoughts go out to all the victims.

And I just pray that people will stop trying to politicize the actions of what by all accounts is a psychotic irrational person to push their agendas, with everything from terrorist conspiracy theories, nonsense laying blame on disliked political opponents, saying its a sign of how angry America is about the healthcare bill forced on them, and pushing pro (so people could have defended themselves) and anti (keep gun out of assailants hands) gun positions that I've read all over the web.

This was just a deranged individual.
Yes, he certainly is a deranged individual. But I also truly believe (and this is my opinion) that this deranged individual was incited by ads and posters and language from certain political parties and individuals. There is a level of irresponsibility in these ads, etc., that has to be addressed.

She felt threatened. She was threatened.

If a person is not of sound mind, and happens to have a gun, being bombarded constantly by wording and pictures that put targets and crosshairs on people who are politically opposed to that person's thinking, is asking for trouble.

And it appalls me that the people responsible for those ads and that wording don't get it. They simply don't get it. It makes me sick.
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post #12 of 37
1/9/11 at 11:45am
nanner You're right. Did anyone see Sarah Palin's public statement on the incident? It was sort of standard. I don't wanna use the word bland due to the nature of the incident but if I were Sarah Palin I would've added: "In honor of those who have lost their lives, I will no longer produce any ads or graphics depicting crosshairs or containing allusions to approaches that can be misconstrued as an endorsement of violence."
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post #13 of 37
1/9/11 at 11:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by c1atsite View Post
nanner You're right. Did anyone see Sarah Palin's public statement on the incident? It was sort of standard. I don't wanna use the word bland due to the nature of the incident but if I were Sarah Palin I would've added: "In honor of those who have lost their lives, I will no longer produce any ads or graphics depicting crosshairs or containing allusions to approaches that can be misconstrued as an endorsement of violence."
Yes.....absolutely!

There's more I'm finding out about how clueless Sarah Palin's camp is, but I find it so disgusting that I can't read much of it.

Try Googling "Rebecca Mansour" - she's a Palin staffer.

I am so filled with grief over the little 9 year old girl. I hope her family can find peace - also the family of Judge John Roll and all the other victims.
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post #14 of 37
1/9/11 at 12:12pm
The 2nd man was just a poor hack waiting for him to get change to pay his fare.

http://www.kvoa.com/news/person-of-i...s-cab-unaware/
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post #15 of 37
1/9/11 at 3:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nanner View Post
If a person is not of sound mind, and happens to have a gun, being bombarded constantly by wording and pictures that put targets and crosshairs on people who are politically opposed to that person's thinking, is asking for trouble.
Are we sure it wasn't violence in films? Or perhaps it was all those video games kids play these days. Or maybe he read Catcher in the Rye. Or he was forced to play dodgeball in school.

See where I am going with this? There are so many potential triggers, and you can't turn the world into a padded room. I abhor these negative ad campaigns as much as the next person, but it is just plain silly to try and assign blame for the irrational actions of a deranged person, and the finger pointing is generally just done to push an agenda, and thats not right IMO.

Personally, the only real question for me is if there were ever any signs that teachers, coworkers, family, family doctor, and friends might have picked up on and raised to other's attention at some point. Ultimately though, with a population of over 300 million people (hard to wrap one's head around truly how many people that is) I just don't see how you can prevent the extremely small percentage of deranged people from going on such a rampage without turning the whole country into a police state with little freedoms.
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post #16 of 37
1/9/11 at 3:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducman69 View Post
Are we sure it wasn't violence in films? Or perhaps it was all those video games kids play these days. Or maybe he read Catcher in the Rye. Or he was forced to play dodgeball in school.

See where I am going with this? There are so many potential triggers, and you can't turn the world into a padded room. I abhor these negative ad campaigns as much as the next person, but it is just plain silly to try and assign blame for the irrational actions of a deranged person, and the finger pointing is generally just done to push an agenda, and thats not right IMO.

Personally, the only real question for me is if there were ever any signs that teachers, coworkers, family, family doctor, and friends might have picked up on and raised to other's attention at some point. Ultimately though, with a population of over 300 million people (hard to wrap one's head around truly how many people that is) I just don't see how you can prevent the extremely small percentage of deranged people from going on such a rampage without turning the whole country into a police state with little freedoms.
A voice of reason. There have been madmen since the beginning of time.
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post #17 of 37
1/9/11 at 3:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by katachtig View Post
How can democracy survive when those with opposing opinions to the extremists are threatened and killed?
It's survived just fine here for 235 years, and we've had plenty of threats and even a civil war.

But, this is why I always oppose the name-calling and other impolite, uncivil, and downright nasty language between political opponents. It doesn't help; it only makes things worse.

By the way, in India and Pakistan, being killed by your own guards is an old tradition.
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post #18 of 37
1/9/11 at 4:10pm
Horrible. My heart goes out to those who have been killed and wounded by this lunatic. He has been charged in the attack.
http://news.cincinnati.com/article/2...unman-s-attack
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post #19 of 37
1/9/11 at 4:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblanche View Post
But, this is why I always oppose the name-calling and other impolite, uncivil, and downright nasty language between political opponents. It doesn't help; it only makes things worse.
Totally agreed. Someone in politics, on campaigns, has to take the first step and say, publicly, that language and vitriol does, indeed, have an effect.
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post #20 of 37
1/9/11 at 7:45pm
On the other hand, this guy is just a total whack job. Expelled from college recently for apparent mental illness. Even three years ago, he submitted a question to the congresswoman that made absolutely no sense and that her lack of answer to made him very angry. He has no apparent or understandable politics, and, if anything, he is way out to the left, not the right.

And this is nothing new. To this day, Sirhan B. Sirhan can give no reason as to why he wanted to kill Bobby Kennedy. You can't control the population enough to eliminate these people.
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post #21 of 37
1/9/11 at 7:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nanner View Post
Totally agreed. Someone in politics, on campaigns, has to take the first step and say, publicly, that language and vitriol does, indeed, have an effect.
It's just not people on the campaign trail or even from the heated debates over the current issues in Congress. The hatred and vitriol also comes from people spewing anti-government/anti-establishment rhetoric. There are a lot of whacko conspiracy theory theorists out there.
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post #22 of 37
1/9/11 at 8:50pm
Quote:
The hatred and vitriol also comes from people spewing anti-government/anti-establishment rhetoric. There are a lot of whacko conspiracy theory theorists out there.
And this shooter was one of them.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110110/...shot_gunman_11
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post #23 of 37
1/10/11 at 6:06am
I just saw an interview with the parents of the 9 year old girl that was murdered. She was born on the tragic day of 9/11 and died during another tragic day in our country.

The h*ll with the political rhetoric. This is a tragedy, plain and simple. My heart goes out to all of the families that are affected by this mad man.

The congress woman is being treated at Tucson Medical Center. I can't help but to relive the time when my father was treated for brain cancer at that hospital (and later died there). They have very good brain surgeons there, and I hope they are able restore some semblence of her life.
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post #24 of 37
1/10/11 at 10:31pm
This just got really weird. I just got an e-mail from my sister who lives in the Tucson area.

"I'm sure you heard about the shooting tragedy in Tucson on Saturday. Just so you know, this Safeway store was only a few miles from us at an intersection (xxx and yyy) we use at least once per day. (Her DH) has been on Gabriele Giffords newsletter distribution list and was planning to attend this "Greet the Congresswoman" event on Saturday morning. Luckily he was running late. He had planned to leave the house at 10:00 am which would have got him at the Safeway at around 10:10am. (exactly when the shooting started!!!!!!!). Thank goodness he is a procrastinator and was running late. We heard about the shooting before he left the house."

No kidding, thank goodness he is a procrastinator, or I could be attending a family funeral this week.
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post #25 of 37
1/11/11 at 2:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Essayons89 View Post
It's just not people on the campaign trail or even from the heated debates over the current issues in Congress. The hatred and vitriol also comes from people spewing anti-government/anti-establishment rhetoric. There are a lot of whacko conspiracy theory theorists out there.
Shoot, I've seen it here. So many people think that calling a political opponent names and ridiculing them is perfectly acceptable. How many "Smirking Chimp" sites are there out there? And there are very similar ones about President Obama. That sort of thing is just not acceptable, and all it does is separate people.

We won't all agree about something, but the sheer nastiness on both sides has gotten out of hand.
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post #26 of 37
1/11/11 at 2:53am
This guy was not a political person according to his friends and his own writings. He was into other things like philosophy and his writings were not political. They are rambling and make no sense.

Turning this senseless shooting into something political, in the face of the suffering of the families is wrong. Yet, the left jumped at the chance.

This was the work of a madman, who was obsessed with the congresswoman way before Sarah Palin came on the scene. To listen to some media reports, you would have thought Palin pulled the trigger herself. Totally irresponsible.

This is the same type of shooting that Mark Chapman committed, Hinkley, Squeeky Frome...etc. etc. It wasn't political. He is deranged.

Shame on the leftist media to use this to further their agenda.

There are heroes in this story and numbing sadness. Our attentions should be on these people who have lost so much. The innocent congresswoman just doing her job. Not agenda driven hate.
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post #27 of 37
1/11/11 at 8:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by farleyv View Post
This guy was not a political person according to his friends and his own writings. He was into other things like philosophy and his writings were not political. They are rambling and make no sense.

Turning this senseless shooting into something political, in the face of the suffering of the families is wrong. Yet, the left jumped at the chance.

This was the work of a madman, who was obsessed with the congresswoman way before Sarah Palin came on the scene. To listen to some media reports, you would have thought Palin pulled the trigger herself. Totally irresponsible.

This is the same type of shooting that Mark Chapman committed, Hinkley, Squeeky Frome...etc. etc. It wasn't political. He is deranged.

Shame on the leftist media to use this to further their agenda.

There are heroes in this story and numbing sadness. Our attentions should be on these people who have lost so much. The innocent congresswoman just doing her job. Not agenda driven hate.
Adamantly insisting that political rhetoric had nothing to do with his actions is every bit as premature and fundamentally dishonest as those that seek to place the blame. We don't know that he didn't see the target map as people feeling the same as he did. In fact, he's not told anyone anything.

When you think about it, there is plenty of blame to go around, everywhere. Inflammatory political statements, derisive names and vitriol are used by politicians and pundits for one reason...to raise money. Politicians through donations, and pundits through advertisers paying for their "audience". And that is only successful in one circumstance; if people are listening. And everyone has been listening.
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post #28 of 37
1/11/11 at 11:43am
Jon Stewart has a very interesting commentary on the situation.

http://www.buddytv.com/articles/the-...-sh-39033.aspx
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post #29 of 37
1/11/11 at 12:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducman69 View Post
Are we sure it wasn't violence in films? Or perhaps it was all those video games kids play these days. Or maybe he read Catcher in the Rye. Or he was forced to play dodgeball in school.

See where I am going with this?
Yes, I see. But if something as simple as a 16-word sentence can possibly help things, then hey, why not... Just an ittybitty addition to a website, as a sign of respect (not a sign of guilt or anything). Ya never know, it could help. I don't see how it could be a hurt. Sometimes small things are bigger than we think. Adding a tender line would show sensitivity, IMO. It is not required - not by a long shot - but it would be classy, IMO.
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post #30 of 37
1/11/11 at 1:51pm
It's looking more and more like the sheriff's opinion was as wrong as that of the many newspeople and pundits who immediately assumed that the OKC bombing was a Muslim terrorist attack.
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