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MAJOR Problem  

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 
Background: Fog was euthanized in October. Mist, 14 1/2 years old, was very happy to be an only cat. Then in December we first adopted Mr. Poe and then Domino. Mist is very much not happy. Hisses at kittens if they come close. That's O.K. Has now stopped eating much at all - and she has always been an eager eater. Still comes upstairs and into bed with me at night. She spent most of yesterday in her little cave-box in the kitchen (cardboard box with a doorway cut in and a towel to lay on - she's had this for a long time.

Problem, and it's MAJOR: Someone defecated on the (fortunately) leather sofa last night, and I think it was her.

My husband is outraged. I asked if he wanted me to get rid of the kittens and he said no, get rid of her. I explained that we couldn't do that, that a 14 1/2 year old, timid, diabetic cat would be put down if she went to a shelter.

Right now she's isolated in my study. My husband is taking a walk to cool down. Called the vet and spoke to receptionist who is very experienced. Tranquilizers won't help with inappropriate defecation. She had no suggestion other than to keep Mist isolated like this. Probably forever, I guess.

There wasn't a problem when I had one litter pan in bathroom on main level of house and another in the basement. But Mr. Poe has such stinky poo that he doesn't cover up that we decided to put the second litter pan in the basement. The two pans are side by side in the small space at the bottom of the stairs. We have the door to the basement closed as there are just too many places in the basement for the kittens to get into trouble. I know my husband won't want to bring the second litter pan upstairs agian.

Any suggestions? Please, I'm so upset. I wouldn't have adopted the kittens if I knew this would happen. What can I do - for Mist, for my husband, for me? The kittens are fine.
post #2 of 20
Well, my first thought is to ask your husband what he'd like done with him when he's well over 90 years old and sick because someone brought toddlers into his house! And ask him how much fun it would be climbing several flights of stairs, in his 90's, to go to the bathroom! Maybe be nicer about it, but he's not being very understanding, IMO.

Seriously, your girl may not be able to get up and down those stairs so well and quickly enough - I'd definitely be putting boxes on every floor. If the kitten's poo is so stinky, I suspect his food isn't agreeing with him...talk to the vet about alternates and slowly introduce new food to him. The kittens may also be bothering her when she's using the neighboring boxes. She needs her own boxes (also, try Cat Attract litter).

I'm honestly not sure what to do at this point - can you segregate the kittens into a separate area? Unless you can make the study a perfect world for your girl, and make sure you spend plenty of time with her? I kind of hate the idea that she's isolated from her home.

Also, now that her appetite is off, I think you really need to see the vet and make sure she's ok - the stress of the kittens may really have thrown off all sorts of functions - I'd definitely be checking for UTIs, etc.

BTW, have you tried Feliway diffusers? How did you introduce the kittens - I wonder if you have to go back to square one there.
post #3 of 20
Thread Starter 
Mist has always been a timid cat. Hides from visitors. While still avoiding visitors, she did become more outgoing as an only cat. If I'd ever thought she'd react this poorly I seriously doubt I would have gotten the kittens.

I think Mist is better isolated than the kittens would be. Her personality is what it is by now. The kittens need as much socialization as they can get in order to grow into outgoing happy cats.

Ask yourself how you would feel if going to sit on sofa by wood burning stove and discover there's a pile of poo where you were going to sit. People have feelings too. I'm not saying his first reaction was a calm decision. What he's now suggesting is that Mist has guest room and its bathroom as her "private" quarters. We put the baby gate in doorway to guest room, at the floor, so kittens cannot get in and there are no closed doors.

[Seriously, your girl may not be able to get up and down those stairs so well and quickly enough - I'd definitely be putting boxes on every floor.] If Mist can readily come upstairs to our bedroom then I'd think she can get downstairs to the litter box.

[Also, now that her appetite is off, I think you really need to see the vet and make sure she's ok ] Mist ate Friskies (not her usual diet) when I put some in her bowl and set it outside her cave-box. When she was spending time under our bed she'd eat just fine if I put her bowl under the bed with her.

[If the kitten's poo is so stinky, I suspect his food isn't agreeing with him...] If Mr. Poe's poo is covered it doesn't stink. It's like human babies - change a diaper and it stinks. Ours is dropped into water so it doesn't smell.

[How did you introduce the kittens] Mr. Poe came here on Dec 11. Started him off in the guest bathroom for a few days. Then gave him the run of guest bedroom too. Got Domino on Dec 22. Just put him in with Mr. Poe. Door to bedroom closed. Mist showed no interest in sniffing at the door. Did some scent swapping with no interest on either side. Let the kittens have run of the house on Dec 26. Kittens stay mostly on main floor. That gives all three run of the kitchen, dining room, great room, hallway and foyer, my study, husband's office, and full bathroom. Mist can and has spent time upstairs in our quite large bedroom. All three pretty much ignore the guest room and its bathroom. Other than at night - I put a baby gate in bathroom doorway high enough for kittens to get under but not Mist. That way I can leave them dry food overnight without worrying that Mist might eat it.
post #4 of 20
If it were me, and the kittens weren't working out, existing cat takes precedence. Figure older kitty has earned seniority and a stress-free retirement package for services rendered, and the new kitties have only been there a few weeks and are more likely to be rehomed than a cat well over 10 years old.

For a two story, I'd put a litterbox downstairs somewhere. Sometimes when you gotta go, you really gotta go, and in old age I can imagine that "uhoh" can happen more often. Personally, I'm a fan of keeping litterboxes in closets, and just putting a cat door on the closet door. Rule of thumb is usually to have numbers of cats +1 litterboxes anyway. So one cat gets two litterboxes, two cats get three, three cats get four. I went overboard and my two cats get four (two in each closet in separate rooms), lol, but hey better safe than sorry. Best of luck.
post #5 of 20
My boy had really stinky poo on two brands of food - introduced another food, stink mostly gone - and he rarely covers. That's why I brought that up. Especially since only one cat has the issue- the food really may not agree with him, so I'd think I'd be asking vet for advice on alternate foods. In my case, Nutro and Hills CD worked well - others, not so much. My girl, of course, has a cast iron stomach - eats anything, and her poo truly has very little odor. She must have good stomach enzymes!

Also, you said Mist had gone from an eager eater to having little appetite - that's not a good sign, as you know. That, with the litter box issues, suggested a vet check to me. I'm not sure why your vet's office started talking about sedatives without a physical exam - unless that was just in chatting with the receptionist, and really not sure why she would bring sedation up on her own. In any event, with all the stress Mist is going through, a senior panel and check up is not amiss, IMO - I'm guessing she goes twice at year at her age, so maybe her next check up is coming right up?

My boy had all sorts of litter box issues - believe me, I've had poo and pee in undesirable places - and it turned out, in his case, to be physical issues induced by the stress of introduction, and later, by having struvite crystals and a reaction to the fish wet Hills C/D. When I brought my second cat in, my boy, I was strongly advised to bring in a cat who was about the same age - I still had some issues, and it was a hard week or three. I did learn quickly never ever to move a litter box to a new location too quickly, though! Actually, I just kept adding more - I've got four smallish boxes, in different areas, for two cats, and I'm on one level. I bet Mist will be happier utilizing a box without worrying about the two toddlers bugging her or potentially guarding the boxes against her.

Every cat behaviorist will suggest boxes on every level, especially for cats either very old, or very young - not always that easy to get to the box in time. I spent a lot of time checking for guidance on box issues - I know it's not fun, and I know it's hard to stay calm and understanding. And I know a lot of people are adverse to having boxes in different areas - but, when working with cats who have had inappropriate elimination issues, I think you really have to look at it from the cat's perspective, not the human's.

Glad to see your husband was able to calm down - nope, not fun to run into poo in the wrong place, but not fun for the kitty who poo'd in the wrong place - whichever one it was, was trying to tell you something.

I'd also get the Cat Attract and Feliway diffuser for a try pretty quickly.

Oh, I've read some TCS members have put in a screen door in when the babies are able to leap over baby gates.
post #6 of 20
Poor Mist! Poor you! Poor husband!

In my opinion, I'm with Ducman69 that Mist deserves all the consideration. I'd put easy access litter boxes, with cat attract litter, wherever she goes. I'd let her have exclusive access to one floor of your 2 story house, and the kittens could have the other floor. If that means layering baby gates on top of each other or installing a screen door (temporarily) then I would. And I believe in Feliway diffusers - though they take time to work and you may need several They are for Mist, so they should be wherever she is isolated.

Mist has been through a lot with the loss of Fog (even if it wasn't obvious - it rocked her world) and now the newcomers. She is an elderly cat and needs peace and comfort for her old body and mind. Please give her lots of love and attention. Kiss her on her nose for me, will ya?

A trip to the vet wouldn't be a bad idea either.

And maybe a food change of Mr. Poe would help the problem there. It's worth experimenting with that.

I hope things clam down and work out. These kinds of problems are not unusual when integrating cats into a household. Poop on a leather sofa is easy to clean up, at least. It could be a lot worse.

Best wishes,

Robin
post #7 of 20
Thread Starter 
Lots of good suggestions here. While good, some won't work - there's no way to isolate separate floors of our house, very open floor plan on both "dwelling" levels.

Mist has already calmed down (no clams here <grin>) in my study. She ate a little food, twice, and is now sitting on the windowsill. And even meowed at me. It's a nice size room, there are two paired windows over a daybed and another single window on the adjacent wall so very nice, light and bright. She often came in here to keep me company while I work on the computer so it is a space she is comfortable and familiar with inhabiting.

What I'm thinking now is that I'll keep her in here with the door closed for several days. This should allow her to decompress. Then I'll put the baby gate in the doorway, still keeping her in here.

Lest you think my husband doesn't like cats, let me say that he made two little stools for Mist - one to make it easier for her to get up on the daybed in my study and the other to get up onto our bed. Fog's passing hit him very hard, and he was reluctant to get the kittens, which he now enjoys very much.

He not unreasonably doesn't like poo on the sofa where he's about to sit down.

While I would keep a litter box on two levels he prefers them in the basement.

Mist's issue with two litter pans side by side, I think, is that the space where they are is quite small. It's like a little "landing" at the base of the stairs before the actual door into the basement. If the pans were in the basement proper, lots more room altogether, I don't think it would be that much of an issue.

One day at a time. Think calming thoughts for us all - him, me, Mist. The kittens - meh, they're oblivious to all this.

Edited to add: I was the one who asked if a sedative would help. Her answer was that no, it would not help. Sorry if I wasn't clear about that.
post #8 of 20
Since she isn't eating, you should take her to the vet, make sure she's ok. Make sure it's not something else, other than the kittens causing her to stop eating. Our original vet blamed the kittens. There was something else wrong, Lynxx died before the second vet had a chance to run more tests. Just because problems started for her when you got the new kittens, doesn't mean the problems are all caused by the new kittens.
post #9 of 20
Thread Starter 
Mist has been eating, just not with her former gusto. Even before the "incident on the sofa" she did eat. For example, yesterday she ate most of a 5 ounce can of Friskies (why, oh why do they like the cat equivalent of a Micky D burger?) Granted I put her dish just outside her cardboard "cave box." She poked her head out and ate steadily.

And when I put her dish under our bed where she was lurking, she ate.

I stand around when feeding the kittens, trying to convince them that there are assigned dishes and we do not go switching back and forth and back again. Really, guys, it's all the same food.

For a couple of days she was eating out in the kitchen at the same time, across the doorway from the terrible two. I'd keep them from going after her dish.

She'll grumble / growl at them and they back off. I've told her that if she'd just smack them once or twice that would settle things but she won't do that.

So it's not that the boys are pouncing on her or even being especially obnoxious. I honestly believe that it is entirely due to the fact that they are here. And she doesn't like that.

Right now she is curled up on the bed in my study, taking a nap.

I really think that keeping her in here is going to be the solution. Just crossing my fingers and hoping that eventually things will settle down for my sweet cat.
post #10 of 20
One thing the vet told us yesterday is that when a cat doesn't eat enough, they become more skittish, nervous, and jumpy. With Mist not eating well, this is only contributing to her skittishness. The desire for her to withdraw indicates something is definitely not right. Get her to the vet NOW for a complete blood work up and thorough examination to rule out any liver function problems and also kidney problems. The stress she's been under is definitely not good for her body and really only aggravates everything else.

When you get home from the vet increase the number of litter boxes in your house to at least 4 and make some of those easily accessible to her. You might want to put up a kiddie gate on the stairs so that she has run of the top floor and the little ones are confined to the bottom floor. Run several feliway diffusers and if need be, get one of those comfort collar things for her.

Whatever you do, you MUST keep her eating and drinking.
post #11 of 20
Thread Starter 
Now that Mist is isolated in my study with the door to the room closed she is calm. Ate food. Even purred for me. Right now she's napping on the bed.

As you can see here. I took this image quite literally just momments ago, just as long as it took to take card out of camera, move images onto computer, copyright, resize, name - and upload.

I'm convinced it is the terrible two, and out of sight means out of mind for her.
LL
post #12 of 20
I would still get her to the vet just to be sure all is well with her enzymes, liver, and kidney functions since she's not been eating. Feed her small frequent meals until she's back to her normal feeding level.
post #13 of 20
Oh, she looks just like my little girl!

One e-vet told me that when a cat is off their appetite, anything is ok to get them eating again - they actually keep cans of Friskies, etc., at the clinic to tempt the finicky. It must be the equivalent of McDonald's fries.

Maybe the out of sight, out of mind will work for her (and hopefully the terrible twosome will not be tempted to bother granny down the road) - but, honestly, at her age, I'd really get her in for a senior panel. It can't really hurt, and if nothing whatsoever is wrong, you've got the baseline. It's on my mind because I just made appointments for my two for later January - and they're only 8-ish (adopted as adults). Technically they're not seniors as that's defined these days, but you get more tests with the senior panel.

I'm assuming she's got a pan in that room, right? Has she pooped yet, or is it too early?
post #14 of 20
Thread Starter 
Mist had a senior panel in October. She's a diabetic, for the last year doing fine on the "Catkins" diet - high protein, low carbs, no medication. As a result of high protein / low carb diet she defecates only every second or third day. Having made a deposit on the sofa last night / early this a.m. I wouldn't expect to see anything further until next year (couldn't resist that) maybe Sunday.

And yes, there is a litter pan in here and she did urinate.

She just got off the bed, had a little nibble of what's in her food dish. Then went back up on the bed to curl up for another nap.

This peace and quiet and isolation seems to be the answer.

Did you all hear the deep sigh I just made?
post #15 of 20
With all the stress she's had lately, I would still consider having blood work done again. Stress can really do a number on the body and it's possible that things are off because of that.
post #16 of 20
An older cat may not mind having a bedroom/study to herself. It's peaceful. One of my mom's cats (OK, one of my childhood cats!) is 21 now, and has had the bedroom to herself for a few years. If we try to take her out, she runs right back in. . .if we close the door, she runs to the door and sits quite stubbornly waiting to go back to HER room! So if that's what keeps Mist happy (and the couch poop-free), it sounds like a good solution.
post #17 of 20
Thread Starter 
Someone just defecated on the sofa this evening. Near but not identical place as the previous incident. Since Mist is in my study, couldn't have been her. Since it doesn't stink, I don't think it was Mr. Poe. That means it is Domino who is the culprit.

I moved the litter box up from the basement landing to the bathroom. I don't know what to say - if it happened where the litter pan had previously been, in a corner, whatever, I could understand it. Why on the sofa?

I've never before had this happen with a kitten.

Husband wants the kittens to go. We'll see what tomorrow brings.

But at least know we know it wasn't Mist.
post #18 of 20
I think a lot of the same suggestions are going to apply. This kitten may have had an 'uh-oh' moment and not been able to get to/remember where the heck the litter pan was - it keeps moving on him, if I reading this right. Again, I suggest adding a lot more pans to the home, in various locations, despite what hubby might want. Kitten Attract or Cat Attract litter is suggested, at least in one pan. And get the Feliway diffusers for the home. Also, give your husband a beer or a massage, whatever he needs to calm down a bit.

How did you clean the sofa - with an enzyme cleaner or something like Zero Odor to remove the odor? Otherwise, kitten just figures it's another nice place to poo.

And this kitty is under stress as well - last one in, big cat hisses at him, mommy and daddy stressed, etc. I really would suggest a vet check for all the cats.

And, honestly, hubby has to chill a bit IMO - of course it's annoying, but we are talking very senior citizens and babies he's angry with, and without even trying the usual recommendations. First he wants to toss the cat of many many years...then he wants to toss out babies. Then he's not amenable to making sure they have enough bathrooms in enough locations, at least as you describe it. Honestly, if it were me, he'd be the one getting tossed. No one is even sure which cat it was, let alone check for any physical issues, right?. I think it's a little early to be talking about rehoming, don't you? And, yes, I have lived through this and thought about rehoming - but most times a little patience and trying a few things resolves the issue. BTW, you need at least four boxes, in different locations, for three cats. Not four boxes lined up next to each other - that looks like just one big pan to a cat.

BTW, how often are the pans being scooped? This little one might be picky about texture of litter or cleanliness - but I suspect it's more that he just can't get to the box quickly enough, or that he's ill. Was the poo totally normal? A lot of times sick cats will eliminate inappropriately to communicate that they are feeling unwell. The first thing with any elimination issue is for the cat to have a thorough exam. If a few more boxes and Cat Attract doesn't work over the weekend, I'd be getting them all into the vet Monday morning. I'd still get Mist in for a check up, no matter what - her last panel was before the kittens were brought in - that's a lot of stress that she's been under in the last month or so - and that's all it takes to affect her health. Hopefully there's been no physical issues, but it wouldn't hurt to have her looked at.

I hope your husband calms down and shows a little more patience with all the cats, as he did with Mist earlier. Pets are like kids - or any human - accidents are going to happen. And it's not fun, and it's hard to be calm, especially if expensive things are getting 'ruined'...but in my case I figured I offered my cats a home, and it was up to me to try every possible solution to our litter box problems. I just hate to see cats returned for litter box issues right away, before trying suggestions offered by vets or behaviorists - it's often a death sentence, as you noted with Mist. I'm sure many people would have put my Dante to sleep with his issues - and it wasn't fun, but he hasn't had an 'accident' in over a year, and looking back, I can see why he had issues to start out with. He's returned my efforts with love and devotion, honestly. I no longer care about the carpet in the back bedroom not being pristine anymore.
post #19 of 20
Thread Starter 
[Honestly, if it were me, he'd be the one getting tossed.]

We've been married for 49 years. No, he's not getting tossed.
post #20 of 20
I'd ditch the husband, but can understand after that much time to train him maybe it's not an option. Ask him if he'd dump their children if they had an accident when potty training?

Add more litterboxes in more readily available places. Feliway may help. Make sure you clean the area with an enzymatic cleaner. And yes I know in this location it sounds insane - but put a litterbox there. Cat attract litter has been known to work wonders. Squishy sprays in the house, but not when he has CA litter.
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