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Anyone with Hybrid or Exotic cat experience please help

post #1 of 30
12/27/10 at 10:24am
Thread Starter 
Hi All,

My five moth old F3 Savannah seems to have some type of "cold". He was treated one time daily with Clavamox for fourteen days. He seemed to be doing much better.

Now today is a week since his last pill. He has a cough again and a slightly runny noise.

However he is acting fine. He eats like crazy. Is running around like crazy. But you can hear the "cold" in his nose again.

The rest of the cats sound normal and are acting fine.


So anyone with hybrid cat experience regarding what is going on and wants to share that would be great .


Loki is going to the vet tomorrow. So any suggestions for tests would be great .
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post #2 of 30
12/27/10 at 11:20am
Being a hybrid won't change what viruses he's susceptible to. Even the big cats can catch herpes and FeLv.

Was there ever a culture done to check what he has? If not, demand it. But I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it was herpes or calci. Your other cats can carry these viruses, in fact most cats do, and in times of stress or anything else that weakens the immune system they flare up.

I hope they can identify what he has and whether there's even a secondary bacterial infection to treat (no bacteria = antibiotics are useless). If it's herpes you have the option of using l-lysine supplement to strengthen his immune system against it.

In the meantime if his nose stuffs up a steamy bathroom and warmed up cat food can help if he can't smell his food.
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post #3 of 30
12/27/10 at 12:30pm
Thread Starter 
Hi Strange_Wings,

All my other cats should be stressed not him . He runs them all around. Not the other way around .

I am very glad he is still eating and such. I am sure he does not have FeLV. But I will have him tested again just to make sure.

What type of culture do you recommend? Like the ones I would have done on a normal domestic cat?

Thank you .
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post #4 of 30
12/27/10 at 3:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat Person View Post
Hi Strange_Wings,

All my other cats should be stressed not him . He runs them all around. Not the other way around .

I am very glad he is still eating and such. I am sure he does not have FeLV. But I will have him tested again just to make sure.

What type of culture do you recommend? Like the ones I would have done on a normal domestic cat?

Thank you .
Yes the same type as a "domestic" cat...
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post #5 of 30
12/27/10 at 4:41pm
Thread Starter 
Hi Sharky,

Thank you so much. Are there any "new" ways to test for either of the viruses (herpes or calci) ?

Thank you both of you .
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post #6 of 30
12/27/10 at 5:33pm
There are New types of Calci but I am not sure of new tests ... likely the old tests with added steps for the techs testing
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post #7 of 30
12/27/10 at 10:05pm
The Real PCR URD test from IDEXX labs tests accurately for herpes as well as several other upper respiratory diseases (URD). You can read all the various tests as well as print off a sheet to take with your vet at the IDEXX site, http://www.idexx.com/view/xhtml/en_u...-pcr.jsf#Tests

You can also give him Lysine. We get the NOW brand powdered lysine in the 1-lb. container and mix it in with wet food. We also add a bit of water to the mix to help it dissolve. In a pinch, you can get the tablets from the supplements section of the store and crush them and add to their food. This might help with the runny eye issue.

Oops, also meant to mention that it's possible that the initial dose of medication might not have cleared up the infection. Call the vet and talk with them about the symptoms coming back just one day after taking the last pill. You might try a different antibiotic before doing more tests. Of course, you might want to do the tests just to rule out things, too.
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post #8 of 30
12/27/10 at 10:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stephanietx View Post
The Real PCR URD test from IDEXX labs tests accurately for herpes as well as several other upper respiratory diseases (URD). You can read all the various tests as well as print off a sheet to take with your vet at the IDEXX site, http://www.idexx.com/view/xhtml/en_u...-pcr.jsf#Tests

You can also give him Lysine. We get the NOW brand powdered lysine in the 1-lb. container and mix it in with wet food. We also add a bit of water to the mix to help it dissolve. In a pinch, you can get the tablets from the supplements section of the store and crush them and add to their food. This might help with the runny eye issue.

Oops, also meant to mention that it's possible that the initial dose of medication might not have cleared up the infection. Call the vet and talk with them about the symptoms coming back just one day after taking the last pill. You might try a different antibiotic before doing more tests. Of course, you might want to do the tests just to rule out things, too.
Since you are a Vet Tech, you should have very easy access to the tests... (I think I remember from several posts you have been working there for quite a while, right? So maybe they can run a quick culture in-house for you for the herpes first, and save the $$$ on the PCR if Herpes is detected right away...) Considering the majority of cats do have Herpes, it is something that is is not at all that specialized.
On another note, The Savannah breeders I looked into it recommend the same vet care as domestic cats.... Besides, an "F3" Savannah, is 84% Domestic anyways...
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post #9 of 30
12/28/10 at 10:46am
Thread Starter 
Hi Sharky,

Thank you for the reply .


Hi stephanietx,

Thank you very much for that link. That link was VERY informative/useful. It might become necessary in the future. But I hope not.

I am sorry for the confusion regarding when Loki got his symptoms back. They started to come seven days after the last dose of Clavamox.

Yes, the vet I go to wanted to try another medication called Enrofloxacin. Since the vet said he sounded less congested.

Plus Loki was well his normal insane self. He was runing around the exam room, sitting on my shoulder, and stealing a pen . Yes he was his normal self .

So I hope this time this knocks whatever is inside him out. AKA makes him all the way better since he is still MUCH better then before the Clavamox.

Thank you for your help and time .


Hi Carolina,

Yes I am a vet tech. Yes they will do certain tests in house for me . But Loki is not a "good patient". He is just a hyperactive ball of fuzzy life.

They did not even want to run the herpes culture. They gave me Enrofloxacin for 14 days to see if that makes him all better. Since he is still much better then before the Clavamox. Just not COMPLETELY normal for him.

The vet also told me that they really will not do anything for feline herpes. So I am not thrilled about that either . What do you do/suggest for a cat with feline herpes? Since all my cats have been either asymptomatic or where "fine" after Clavamox.

If this medication does not work then I will insist on the herpes culture. I will also try Lysine in his food if this medication does not work .

I agree with the Savannah and domestic cat care. It is just the breeder made me really worried about him needing special care. Lastly being a vet tech I do think I over worry sometimes .


To everyone else,

Any suggestions for tests, cultures or anything else if the Enrofloxacin does not work would be great. Also he does NOT have runny eyes. He just sneezes and has some clear almost unnoticeable nasal discharge. Like his nose is always wet and sticky when he is moving. But is dry when he is NOT moving. He also has a cough when he runs allot or when he wakes up from a "nap".
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post #10 of 30
12/28/10 at 11:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat Person View Post
What do you do/suggest for a cat with feline herpes? Since all my cats have been either asymptomatic or where "fine" after Clavamox.
L-Lysine! Give him a daily dose for life, and he should be symptom free... For my big guy, the protocol is 500mg a day maintenance, and 1000mg a day (500mg 2x a day) during a flare up (which never happens, so he doesn't really get that). ALL my cats are on Lysine, no exception.
Bugsy, Hope and Gracie get theirs mixed into the wet food, and Lucky into the water.
I highly recommend this one: Now foods L-Lysine Powder - WAY cheaper than the vet's stuff and easier to give it, as you can mix it into the food or into the water. One container has 522 doses of 500 mg.
Since your baby is in a flare up right now, I would give him one gram a day, divided in two 500mg doses, am and pm....
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post #11 of 30
12/28/10 at 12:47pm
Since stress lowers the immune system, keeping the home as stress free as possible and planning appropriately is a good idea. Do you use feliway diffusers? If not, add a few to the home as it can be good for all of the cats.
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post #12 of 30
12/28/10 at 2:44pm
Thread Starter 
Hi Carolina,

Thank you for the link and information. If this next medication does not work he will be getting L-Lysine. So if I buy two bags of that L-Lysine I will get free shipping? I am never really good at understand stuff like that .


Hi Strange_Wings,

I can not use Feliway diffuser. It caused my Savannah to spray. Also a Savannah and domestics and a stress free environment . Sorry I know what you mean, but it just not well practical .


Thank you both
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post #13 of 30
12/28/10 at 3:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat Person View Post
Hi Carolina,

Thank you for the link and information. If this next medication does not work he will be getting L-Lysine. So if I buy two bags of that L-Lysine I will get free shipping? I am never really good at understand stuff like that .
Enrofloxacin is an antibiotics and it will do nothing for the Herpes, since it is a Virus. Lysine will though

Click on the link I gave you, and look on the right side, under the shopping cart, where it says More Shopping options - There is the choice to buy From Swanson Through Amazon - $10.90 + $4.99 Shipping, about the same thing in the end.
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post #14 of 30
12/28/10 at 4:19pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolina View Post
Enrofloxacin is an antibiotics and it will do nothing for the Herpes, since it is a Virus. Lysine will though

Click on the link I gave you, and look on the right side, under the shopping cart, where it says More Shopping options - There is the choice to buy From Swanson Through Amazon - $10.90 + $4.99 Shipping, about the same thing in the end.
Hi Carolina,

Enofloxacin is also a very strong medication for gram positive and negative bacteria. So that is why I would like to give it to him. Just in case he has a bacterial issue.

But if this does not work I am ordering the L-Lysine. Thank you for the explanation on the shipping issue .


Has a veterinarian ever tried an antiviral on your cats? If so which one did they use and did it succeed?


Thank you
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post #15 of 30
12/28/10 at 5:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat Person View Post
Hi Carolina,

Enofloxacin is also a very strong medication for gram positive and negative bacteria. So that is why I would like to give it to him. Just in case he has a bacterial issue.

But if this does not work I am ordering the L-Lysine. Thank you for the explanation on the shipping issue .


Has a veterinarian ever tried an antiviral on your cats? If so which one did they use and did it succeed?


Thank you
Precisely, which is why it will not do anything for the Herpes Virus. It will only work on an opportunistic infection, but NOT on the herpes virus itself.
No, my cats all have their herpes virus managed with L-Lysine and it works like a charm. Never needed anything else; never had a flare up since started on Lysine.... But sure as heck, if I stop giving it, soon enough someone will be sneezing...
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post #16 of 30
12/28/10 at 6:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolina View Post
Precisely, which is why it will not do anything for the Herpes Virus. It will only work on an opportunistic infection, but NOT on the herpes virus itself.
No, my cats all have their herpes virus managed with L-Lysine and it works like a charm. Never needed anything else; never had a flare up since started on Lysine.... But sure as heck, if I stop giving it, soon enough someone will be sneezing...
Same here ... though I use other holistic remedies per my vet
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post #17 of 30
12/28/10 at 6:18pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolina View Post
Precisely, which is why it will not do anything for the Herpes Virus. It will only work on an opportunistic infection, but NOT on the herpes virus itself.
No, my cats all have their herpes virus managed with L-Lysine and it works like a charm. Never needed anything else; never had a flare up since started on Lysine.... But sure as heck, if I stop giving it, soon enough someone will be sneezing...
I agree with all of what you said. I will also admit I am fairly sure it is Feline herpes virus, but I just want to be sure. Even thought it is via process of elimination.

Also do you know if it is normal for L-Lysine to work like a "wonder drug"? I hope if I need to use it on my boy it works as well as it does on your cats.
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post #18 of 30
12/28/10 at 6:49pm
Wonder drug no .. but it is a great thing when you have 4 with varying types of herpes( degrees and symptoms = type)
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post #19 of 30
12/28/10 at 8:11pm
You don't have to wait to start your cats on Lysine. It is a basic amino acid that boosts the function of the immune system, helping the body ward off the effects of the virus. It takes a couple of weeks to a month for it to build up, anyway.

There is also some research that I saw..... somewhere... that the L-arginine found in grain allows the virus to replicate. If that is the case in humans, makes me wonder about cats. So my boys get a very low to no-grain diet.

Others who know more about this can tell me if cats need the arginine.... or if there is an impact on the feline herpes virus.
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post #20 of 30
12/29/10 at 7:06am
Thread Starter 
Hi AddieBee,

I am going to go and get the Lysine. The 500 milligram pills and split it in two twice a day. So starting tomorrow he will be getting his Lysine. I hope this helps him to feel better .

My Savannah eats TOTW and Natures Abundance (thats what the breeder fed him). But he also eats some Iams, Purina One, and Eukanuba. Along with any people food or anything else that is vagely food like . Yes he is like a dog .

Thank you everyone .
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post #21 of 30
12/29/10 at 8:53am
If he does have herpes, one of the best things you can do for him is to switch him to a grain free or almost grain free diet.
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post #22 of 30
12/29/10 at 10:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by stephanietx View Post
If he does have herpes, one of the best things you can do for him is to switch him to a grain free or almost grain free diet.
I have read the study as did all three of my vets( holistic/ conventional , conventional and eastern medicine) ... None are convinced, the vets are waiting for further studies to see if the results are the same... IMHO and experience that varies by cat... In 2 of my 4 all grain free = disaster ... Major flare ups which assisted in other illnesses taking hold... Type of grain has a lot to do with it at least here... lower allergen and higher digestibility seems to work for my crew
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post #23 of 30
12/29/10 at 10:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat Person View Post
Hi AddieBee,

I am going to go and get the Lysine. The 500 milligram pills and split it in two twice a day. So starting tomorrow he will be getting his Lysine. I hope this helps him to feel better .

My Savannah eats TOTW and Natures Abundance (thats what the breeder fed him). But he also eats some Iams, Purina One, and Eukanuba. Along with any people food or anything else that is vagely food like . Yes he is like a dog .

Thank you everyone .
If he eats wet food, I would highly recommend getting the powder or capsule to mix it on the food instead of piling him.... SO much easier!
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post #24 of 30
12/29/10 at 11:10am
Thread Starter 
I know with all of you diet is a major thing. My Savannah will eat anything. So he will always have some grain in his diet. Since he gets some of my other cats food. Just the way it is.

Now Carolina my Loki likes his pills in cheese. Or just out of my fingers for a piece of cheese. Well he will take a pill for any type of reward.

Also my vet said only give 250 milligram of L-Lysine once a day. He said try that first. Since his immune system is different then a domestic. We will see what happens . So tomorrow he gets his L-Lysine.
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post #25 of 30
12/29/10 at 12:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat Person View Post
I know with all of you diet is a major thing. My Savannah will eat anything. So he will always have some grain in his diet. Since he gets some of my other cats food. Just the way it is.

Now Carolina my Loki likes his pills in cheese. Or just out of my fingers for a piece of cheese. Well he will take a pill for any type of reward.

Also my vet said only give 250 milligram of L-Lysine once a day. He said try that first. Since his immune system is different then a domestic. We will see what happens . So tomorrow he gets his L-Lysine.
The only difference is that he is MORE susceptible possibly to things that many domestics have full immunity to... Lysine at a maintenance dose is likely NOT going to do much, hence why all of us gave a loading dose... Honestly I would be checking with another vet as yours is either totally unfamiliar with hybrids and general cat ailments ( upwards of 90% of cats have it ) or your misunderstanding...
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post #26 of 30
12/29/10 at 12:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharky View Post
The only difference is that he is MORE susceptible possibly to things that many domestics have full immunity to... Lysine at a maintenance dose is likely NOT going to do much, hence why all of us gave a loading dose... Honestly I would be checking with another vet as yours is either totally unfamiliar with hybrids and general cat ailments ( upwards of 90% of cats have it ) or your misunderstanding...
a Savannah at 250mg a day during a flare... simply weird
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post #27 of 30
12/29/10 at 12:28pm
Lysine is perfectly harmless. . .I don't know why your vet would recommend a lower dose, especially since Savannahs are larger. I doubt it'll do any good at that dosage.
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post #28 of 30
12/29/10 at 2:40pm
Thread Starter 
Hello Everyone,

First of all let me make this clear my boy just turned five month old and is about 7lbs. I am not sure if that makes any difference to any of you or not to any of you or not. But I just want to make that clear.


Now Sharky I am not defending the veterinarian in anyway shape or form. But I have used the same veterinarian for 13 plus years. I have had no complaints.

I talked to someone who owns pure servals. As well as F1-F3 Savannahs. They said that too much L-Lysine can cause an exaggerated immune response. When I spoke to my veterinarian he said he had heard that as well. So this seems to be why he wants to start with a lower dose of L-Lysine then you all recommend.

I have also worked with and cared for bobcats. I have seen what happens with this species of cats when they have "major" immune response. From just a simple antibiotic.

But if there is not a lot of or no progress with the 250 milligram of Lysine in about two weeks I will do the dosage you all think is appropriate.
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post #29 of 30
12/29/10 at 7:34pm
My boys do get some grain in their diet every day... concerned about urine ph. So far - touch wood - no UTIs in this house of males.

Cat Person - the other member you might want to try and contact is KaiBengals. His name is Nial Thomson and he and his wife breed and raise Bengals. They just rescued an F1 Savannah from death row!
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post #30 of 30
12/30/10 at 4:25pm
Thread Starter 
Hi AddieBee,

Thank you very much. I will try and contact them . Thank you again.
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