would this work for crystals?

This is a sit down and discuss with your vet issue... It depends on many factors : what type of crystals, the ph ... No IMHO that particular brand while good is NOT ever appropriate for a cat with any urinary issues

Healthy and natural do not always go hand in hand///

Rx food is = to medicine

IMHO no, no way I would do that, especially since he eats mostly dry... You might get by with Dry RX, and some other safe canned wet food - but you should discuss it with your vet... IMHO, if it ain't broken, don't change it!

RX foods do have nutritional value, they are balanced and complete... If you do not like Purina, you can choose a better one, like hills... Yes, they are not the best ingredient wise, but they do serve a purpose... If you are still worried, feed more wet then dry...
You say you fear your cat's life can be cut short due to the nutritional value on the RX foods, but your cat's life can be cut really short if he has crystals and becomes blocked - that can kill a cat in 24-48 hours. IMHO there is a reason why the vets want him on the RX, and I honestly would keep him on it... If it was just the case of recommending him to be on regular Science Diet "just because", then yes, I would probably not listen and do my own thing... But when it comes to prescription food, I consider it as good as medication in preventing serious issues... and Crystals is not something to take lightly IMHO.

CRYSTALS!!! OH NO....I have dreams of them and they ain't something we girls would wear in a ring.
I have a kitty girl rescued from life on the Long Island Railroad tracks. 'My Crystal Queen'....with 7 cats it took a long time to find out who was peeing around...many months....and then I was always taking urine to the vet to try and find who...need I say more. And then when they get really experienced..they are unbelievably cunning. Just when you think all is well...you find pee.
Yes, if if ain't broke - don't fix it....Oh - how many times I have done that - when all was better, thinking about trying better foods etc.,...EVERY SINGLE time I changed her food - Zap, wham...bam...crystals again...ph high...struvite, then oxalate, then struvite...
And the hardest part is the behavioral problems that are in play because they relate the litter box to any discomfort. I have been working at this since 2007 at least. Life BC (Before Crystals) was smooth sailing...all were on Wellness...wet and dry... now because of the situation all are on prescription C/D....It works....all I care is that she does not continue to get crystals...my life is hell and hers is too. Most of everything in our apartment is covered in plastic....just the other day she sprayed all over a wall. She goes in and out of her behavior...but before Crystals she never had a litter box problem.

I am trying to sneak Petguard to the others...but if I go out of town and have cat sitters it is tougher. Good luck....if your cat has a genetic tendency -- I would not fool with the food if it is working. The MOST difficult part is behavioral - if that starts happening -- it can take years to undo. As I have learned.
I still plan to contact Dr. Loops for her crystal problem and see if there are holistic alternatives. http://www.charlesloopsdmv.com

Hey Alpha Cat -
If your Your RX fellow is fine with that - keep it going. Like the others said...it serves a medicinal purpose. Just remember - the wet food is important for crystal control - they get a lot more water in their digestive system, therefore, running through the bladder.
As far as your other kitty....there are probably other brands better and not costly....One of the brands that all the rescuers around here get is a Costco brand cat food 'Kirkland'...and a large bag is pretty reasonable (can't recall the price)...yet has a decent list of ingredients.

P.S. It is great you are feeding...do you have winter shelters? Maybe you don't have the weather.....However, are the feral cats you feed spayed and neutered? That is crucially important - as we say - "feeders are breeders" - if not...try to contact a local TNR (trap-neuter-return) group to help you with that. They also 'tip' the left ear - it is a universal message to rescuers and city animal control people that the animal has been fixed and they do not pick them up. You save so much suffering of the mothers and the kittens and the male cats settle down and stop fighting.

Look up wysong. They carry a food for crystals. Its natural and most of their foods have good ingredients. I know you need a prescription from your vet for struvatrol, their dog food for struvite crystals but im not sure about their cat food. I used their supplement called biotic ph- which i added to my dogs raw food and the crystals have not returned (knock on wood). However i would still talk to your vet about this food. Just to keephim/her updated and keep an eye on your cat.

i think that's worth looking into, I was just thinking, why can't they bottle the elements in the RX food that help dissolve crystals and sell that separately? I have been feeding Royal Canin SO and while it does work (and is a 'premium' brand) it's full of corn and by-products (even the canned). Not to mention the price is sky-high and it's super high in fat. It's tough dealing with one cat on it when you have others as well.

I can only repeat what Sharky, Carolina and others have said - and my boy had struvite crystals - this is the type of question that must be discussed with a vet. The prescription foods are part of the clinical treatment for the condition - and no matter what the ingredients look like to a lay person, they are there for a medical reason.

As I understand it, it's not a question of certain 'parts' of the prescription being key - it's the entire composition of the food that is necessary as part of the treatment.

That said, my guy is on Hills C/D wet and dry - and so is my girl, who did not have any urinary issues. I asked three separate vets and they all said it's fine to feed her the same food. Yes, that did make the feeding routine easier. Cost wise - really not that much different than the mid-premium food I had been feeding, and of course, saves me hundreds in vet bills, and my cat's life.

But, I cannot emphasize too strongly - this is not the sort of issue that can be dealt with without consultation with a vet.

I just want to reinforce what others have said. My Muddy has chronic bladder issues that have caused him to block and land in the ER twice. The second time was my fault. Like yourself, I was questioning the value of RX food and started to wean him off of it, knowing that Muddy ate primarily wet food and drank lots of water. One day a friend of mine was killed in a car accident and I was gone the entire day helping out his family. I was stressed, and when I got home at 1AM that night, I found out that my stress caused him to stress. He blocked and I had to rush him to the ER, where he stayed in intensive care for 2 days. A simple change of routine for that day was enough to push him over the edge.

Muddy hates Royal Canin and Science Diet RX brands, but absolutely loves the Purina UR. So that's what he gets. Day in and day out. It keeps him from blocking and will extend his life rather than cutting it short.

Another way to look at the price of RX food. What will it cost you in medical treatments if they block versus the extra cost of the food? Muddy's ER visits would have paid for a lifetime of RX food for him.

I am not paid by anyone to leave great, or bad, reviews - nor do I know any of the other posters on this site in real life. And, lots of people actually do know how to spell

The thing is, if you've dealt with this situation, and if you also weigh the authoritativeness of various internet sites, a lot of people will come to the same conclusion - vets have medical training, prescription food is clinically tested, and physical exams and lab tests will tell you if a given food works for your cat. And, I tend to trust sites such as Cornell or Tufts over some of the more, ah, enthusiastic layman sites, especially those which seem to think that vets like to prescribe prescription food just for fun and profit.

Feline nutrition really is an evolving field. But only your vet has examined your cat - no one on the internet has.

My Jeta is prone to struvite crystals and, for several reasons, I didn't want to feed the RX foods. When I was considering trying to go with a non RX processed food I realized that even if I found something that worked I'd need to keep an eagle eye on the ingredients to make sure it didn't change and so might not work anymore.

I read a study where it was determined that a struvite crystals problem recurs on average 18 months after the first time. That means if you went with something non RX you would need to be hyper vigilent for at least that long to be sure the problem was under control.

If I were going to try to find something other than an RX food I'd want to have the cats urine tested frequently at first (once every month or two) then maybe not so frequently for a couple of years to make sure the crystals weren't accumulating.

Jeta's problem was what pushed me to feeding raw. Fortunately I had already done a lot of reading on raw feeding. It isn't something you can just jump into. Jeta has been crystal free for 3+ years on raw.

In your situation I suspect you and your cat are better off sticking with the RX foods.

Just a personal experience.

My 3 Original cats are all on Royal Canin Urinary SO - mostly the canned form - using the dry as a bedtime treat.

A note about Natural Balance Ultra, Dry - the Original Formula, this is no scientific finding, just a GUT reaction -

I thought I found a quality food, and the cats were loving it - most of the time. I also was feeding them Trader Joes canned food, along with the NB dry.

After a few years of NB, our older cat started having issues with crystals - and the vet put him on the Royal Canin Urinary SO prescription diet - it's been three years (+/-), and he is doing fine - his coat is beautiful (he's all black), he's active - and generally seems in good health.

Then, August of this year, our female (Phoebe) started having bladder infections. I had to take her to the emergency vet to get help for her. The antibiotics did the trick, but just 3 months later - she was back to displaying the same symptoms. I immediately took her to her regular vet - who wisely did a sonogram. The sonogram showed one stone. We scheduled her for surgery - and the vet found another smaller stone too.

Phoebe is now on the RC Urinary SO - canned.

Her brother, Simon, has never displayed a problem, but he now is on the same diet as the other two. Perhaps his chemistry is different, who knows, but - it's now just easier to feed all three the same diet.

I won't feed any of my other cats on Natural Balance Ultra (dry) any longer - don't know if the food had anything to do with it - but, I highly suspect it did.

Since KiKi's had his first issue, I've stayed away from anything with fish, especially tuna.

I really don't like the ingredients in the RC, but - I can't complain about the results - they are on the canned food 99% of the time.

That's my experience, and, I may be completely wrong - but thought I'd share what's happened and my suspicions about the Natural Balance Ultra dry food - because you mentioned it in your first post.

g

P.S. I just read your post - #15 - I really don't understand if I read what you wrote correctly - hmm?

BTW, I am not a professional reviewer, and am very familiar with most of those that have taken their time to respond to your original post - and I don't believe them to be Professional Reviewers, either.

I'm curious as to what text was taken from other websites, - oh, and there is a thing called Spell Check to help keep mis-spellings to a minimum.

The Biotic ph- i mentioned is made by wysong and is basically a supplement containing tje ingredients to help lower the ph of the urine. The biotic ph+ increases the ph of the urine which is needed in case of calcium oxylate crystals. You can get the biotic ph- or utetic at a pet store you can check on the wysong website.

Honestly, it's a natural enough question - I think anyone who checks cat food on the internet will come away with the idea that certain ingredients are 'good', and certain are 'bad' - but, when it comes to your cat's health, I think the key thing is to work with your vet as well as conducting your own research. As I mentioned, the ingredients in the C/D didn't strike me as 'great' either - but I asked my vet and got a 10 minute talk about the how's and why's behind the prescription lines (yep, there's a reason for the pork in there).

And, honestly, the evidence will be how your cat is doing - and that's something you and your vet will also be checking regularly. In my case, my two are doing well, thank goodness - look good, act good, and pee well (happy dance!).

I just hope your cats do well going forward - nothing scarier than running to the e-vet with a cat that's not peeing - and hoping that you noticed in time!

Wysong makes rx. foods as well as otc foods. Their rx foods are only.available with a prescription from your vet. There is a toll free number that you call to order. Some vets carry wysong's food. Im not a rep for them but their urinary foods contain herbs that are known to support urinary health. Plus the food has meat.

Btw hills c/d is marketed as a urinary food but it is basically a maintenance food which is why you can feed it to any cat. Hills just likes to make that claim to sell product. Yes rx foods are tested and there is a place for them but there is nothing wrong with trying to do whatever you can for your cat. I was supposed to feed my dog cd too but when i saw the mountains of poo i stopped and continued feeding raw with the biotic ph-. Of course I'm talking about my female dog not a male cat but I was lucky to have found a better option.

We are making suggestions, giving eamples of what has worked for us. Ultimately, it is up to the op what she wants to do. I hope it works out whatever you choose. Keep us posted!

I can't tell you what to do but will share my own cat's story. He was on dry Hill's c/d for 6 years for struvite crystals after having a blockage. He continually gained weight no matter how we reduced the amount -- this cat went from about 11 to 17 pounds! and the vet basically said the weight gain was just a common side effect of this food and there was nothing to be done. Then my cat got diabetes. (Since then I have "met" so many people online whose cats became diabetic on those diets.)

It was only at that point I finally started belatedly trying to learn more about feline nutrition and realized what a low quality food I had been feeding and how totally inappropriate for a cat to eat such a high carb diet. I was scared about changing the diet but needed to find something for both these issues.
It turned out the same diet that was better for his diabetes also worked for the struvite crystals. All wet food, high animal protein, very low carb. More meat tends to naturally lower pH (more acidic), making the struvite crystals less likely to form. I also added a little extra warm water to the food.
He has never again had a problem with crystals in 4.5 years , and has had regular urinalyses. (In fact this is better than on the Hill's c/d when he still sometimes had crystals found in the urine)

But this is MY cat. I do know others who have had the same experience. but of course that's all still anecdotal. I'll share with you some research I did in case there is anything in there you may not have seen : https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0A...cXhiZ2hw&hl=en

I personally would be very cautious about changing unless to all or mostly wet food because I think that's a big part of the picture, keeping them adequately hydrated to help keep the urinary tract flushed out and make things less likely to clump in there and cause a blockage.

If you do change it , IMO it would be a good idea to get a urinalysis a few times a year at first.