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doubting vets diagnosis

post #1 of 34
12/18/10 at 8:38pm
Thread Starter 
so today i took my cat percy, 1 yrs old MALE, to the vet because he has been having an excessive licking issue on his stomach near his lower nipple. its too the point that all his fur is gone, about the size of a quarter and its pink. no blood that ive noticed, but there was a little scabbing. he has even started to lick his other nipple and he almost has 2 furless spots now. the vet diagnosed him with a mammary gland tumor after literally touching his stomach area for about 10 seconds. no other tests were given. he has scheduled percy for surgery on monday. ive been reading up on it and to my understanding my cat shows none of the symptoms that go along with it.

but at what point should i start to doubt this vets diagnosis?

1st. he shows none of the symptoms, such as not eating, lethargic, etc
2nd. hes not a senior or a siamese or a female. leaving him a very small, but still possible, chance of having a mammary tumor
3rd. although im not a vet, i believe its because of stress.
4th, he doesnt seem have have any lump-like things that i can feel. i compared him with my other cat it they seemed the same.

i was reading up on fur loss on the stomach near the nipple and there were three common possibilities listed: fleas, allergies, and stress.

hes indoors at ALL times, so it cant be fleas? (my other cat doesnt seem to be scratching or showing symptoms of having fleas)
i eliminated allergies because he has been staying and eating the same food and staying in the same place all his life. and this excessive licking has only been happening for the past month or so.

i believe its stress because im a college student. i bring him back n forth every weekend from my apartment to home, which to my understanding is stressful since the cats environment is inconsistent. secondly, he is at home alone for 6-8 hours. i just recently bought a bunch of toys and his fur started to grow back, but now that he is home again (only a few toys at home) he is licking again.

can anyone help me? what should i do? i honestly have my doubts about this diagnosis and surgery would be completely unnecessary if it isnt a tumor, however if it is it could be bad if i keep holding out.
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post #2 of 34
12/18/10 at 8:44pm
I would be getting a second opinion, the vet may of felt something but imo should of ran more tests to check to see what the problem is!
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post #3 of 34
12/18/10 at 8:51pm
I agree with AJ. Get a second opinion....

In the meantime, Get some Feliway and Bach's Rescue Remedy for pets...

where do you live?
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post #4 of 34
12/18/10 at 8:52pm
Definitely get a second opinion before you subject your cat to surgery. That's pretty drastic for any cat, and will not help if the licking is due to stress. Talk about adding stress! It's also possible that he's developed an allergy to something that didn't bother him before.

You also don't need to extra expense for a procedure that may not be necessary. Although some of the tests aren't any cheaper than surgery.

for your kitty. Keep us updated on how he's doing.
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post #5 of 34
12/18/10 at 8:52pm
Just noticed this was you first post. Welcome to TCS.
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post #6 of 34
12/18/10 at 8:59pm
I also think you should get a second opinion. I think it sounds like stress due to you moving your cat so frequently. Cats hate to be moved to a new environment once, and it's happening to your cat 2 times a week.

If it is just stress, is there any way to keep your cat fully at your apartment? Or maybe you should leave the cat at your parents house until you get a permenent place. You have to think about your cat here, as every time you move back and forth from the apartment to the house your cat is going to get worse. The stress from constantly moving compounds on itself, it's not something your cat is likely to get used to.
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post #7 of 34
12/18/10 at 9:04pm
My moms cat does this all the time-a hand raised almost 8 yo male neutered around 1 yo. Hes VERY sensitive to fleas and does this when he lays on the carpet in her room more then normal(not sure if it was treated or what but has been steam cleaned many times) His brother does the same thing but more on his back.

I put triple antibiotic cream on and thin layer of biocaine on after it has a chance to dry. the biocaine has anti pain/lick so the cat leaves spot alone.

I know they have better options for skin issues that are more serious. I would definatley go elsewhere for another look. Good Call for being on the look out for your cat
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post #8 of 34
12/18/10 at 10:22pm
Thread Starter 
wow, thanks for all the quick responses everyone

@rad65 - yea i can keep him at my parents house or even at my apartment. i just thought that he would get used to it eventually. but if this is the case then he'll stay put somewhere. do you think something like feliway would help him during car rides?

he hates going into his cage now.

@catsallaround - thanks for that info, i would like to put some antibiotic cream but im not really sure what is okay and what isnt (first time cat owner). would you have to get vet prescribed or over the counter stuff? neosporin okay?

@goldycat - thanks for the welcome yea i was really concerned with this dr's hasty diagnosis. and i will most def keep everyone updated.

@aj - i totally agree. its intimidating to question a vet because so many will throw the "who is the dr, me or you?" card.

@addie - yea im looking to get feliway, and im just waiting for monday after i get a 2nd opinion...i just hope it helps him. *fingers crossed. i live in a really quiet neighborhood in socal.
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post #9 of 34
12/18/10 at 10:37pm
My cat giraffe had a very similar issue. He licked his fur off his tummy. It was a very large spot about half of his abdominal area he then started to lick fur off of his front leg and had a. Rather large bald spot in a short amount of time. Took him in and his vet said it was likely stress of some kind since his behavior and eating habits were fine. I couldn't pinpoint the source of stress since nothing around the home had changed and I still have no idea if stress was a factor. He was given antibiotics for the yeast infection he obtained from all the licking. He was also treated with antibiotics for staph infection because he had some open skin from his.rough tongue. Finally, we discovered during the exam that he had tapeworms so he was treated with parasite meds. I'm not sure what it was but that combination of meds cured the problem within a week. I wonder if it has anything to do with worms because recently a stray cat that we feed when he comes around had the same licking problem and he has tapeworms (he threw up a bunch of them on the porch.... eew). His licking stopped after a few weeks also, even though he was never treated for worms so it could just be stress. have tried to research some correlation between worms and fur licking but found nothing so this is completely based on my own experience. Maybe have the kitty tested for worms? Good luck and keep us posted!
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post #10 of 34
12/18/10 at 11:08pm
Thread Starter 
thanks a lot sweetthang, thats actually really informative and backs up my theory of stress even more. like your cat, my cat is totally behaving fine. so we shall see
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post #11 of 34
12/19/10 at 5:45am
Welcome!

I had a cat who developed an allergy to turkey. She licked her tummy bare because of this. That kind of "over grooming" can be caused by a lot of things and it can take some time to figure it out.

I would get a 2nd opinion, if I were you, before going through with surgery, since you don't have confidence in the vet you saw. I hope you can find a vet who takes the time to answer your questions and who you feel comfortable with asking those questions. It is their job, their obligation, to answer your questions and make everything clear to you. You are paying them for that, as well as their medical expertise.

I would not use any topical (or internal) over the counter human (or cat - other than Bach's Rescue Remedy) medicines or ointments or anything else on my cat, without vet advice.

Also, I would get the 2nd opinion ASAP, in case it is a tumor.

Robin
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post #12 of 34
12/19/10 at 7:30am
Just to point out the obvious here, but to actually do more tests (such as a biopsy) the cat has to go under anesthesia and have surgey. If the vet did feel something small and it's just starting to grow, blood tests will likely look completely normal at this point.

So instead of completely distrusting your vet, talk to them. We can't tell what the vet felt or why they want to remove it/get a sample, but I'm sure your vet has a good reason.
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post #13 of 34
12/19/10 at 9:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by strange_wings View Post
Just to point out the obvious here, but to actually do more tests (such as a biopsy) the cat has to go under anesthesia and have surgey. If the vet did feel something small and it's just starting to grow, blood tests will likely look completely normal at this point.

So instead of completely distrusting your vet, talk to them. We can't tell what the vet felt or why they want to remove it/get a sample, but I'm sure your vet has a good reason.
I agree - before doing anything more expensive, can you talk to your vet? Most vets will not be unhappy if you say you have been researching the problem and you would like to know what symptoms your cat is showing. Then, if you are still not happy, go for another opinion. Just to add, an indoor cat can get fleas - my Cinders, who out of choice lives in a large bathroom to keep away from the other cats, began overgrooming like mad a couple of years ago, until she had a bare patch on her stomach, and it was eventually found to be a flea allergy.
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post #14 of 34
12/19/10 at 9:45am
I wonder if the vet has had a recent past experience where they decided to wait and that resulted in a pet's death? That would certainly explain why the vet is pushing to go get this tested so promptly.
But the OP won't know unless they ask.

Again, though, the only way to check a tumor early on (before it causes other symptoms/issues) is a biopsy. That requires the same as just fully removing it. There's no other magic test at this point other than a sample.
Also, the definitive way to diagnose something like EGC is with a biopsy sample, too.
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post #15 of 34
12/19/10 at 3:47pm
I agree with other posters. You should call the vet and ask them exactly WHY they believe this is the problem and what symptoms lead them to that diagnosis. Also, perhaps you can take the cat in and have them SHOW you where they feel the tumor(s) so you can feel them for yourself. Be sure to point out what you did to us-- that you don't feel your cat has the symptoms. Then, get a second opinion, just to be safe. It's much cheaper and less stress-inducing to have an exam than to have a kitty go through unnecessary surgery. Good Luck!

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post #16 of 34
12/19/10 at 4:07pm
Isn't an x-ray a diagnostic tool to detect a mass? I'd call the vet to say you're concerned about subjecting your cat to surgery - though of course if needed you'll do it - but did he feel an internal lump so clearly that an x-ray or something isn't needed?

In discussing this with the vet, as the surgery was scheduled for tomorrow, I'd go the "pet parent having a panic-attack route" rather than someone questioning his diagnosis route....

It's pretty normal for people to just react to news like that, and then to later develop questions as they absorb the information.
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post #17 of 34
12/19/10 at 4:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG View Post
Isn't an x-ray a diagnostic tool to detect a mass? I'd call the vet to say you're concerned about subjecting your cat to surgery - though of course if needed you'll do it - but did he feel an internal lump so clearly that an x-ray or something isn't needed?

In discussing this with the vet, as the surgery was scheduled for tomorrow, I'd go the "pet parent having a panic-attack route" rather than someone questioning his diagnosis route....
Agree with the above
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post #18 of 34
12/19/10 at 4:32pm
I work in a vets office and if your not getting a good vibe then definately get a
2nd opinion. It does not sound like a mammary tumor to me but I cant see the cat. It sounds like stress/allergies to me.
Do you feel a hard lum pat the glands or is it the fat pad the vet is feeling thinking its a tumor?
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post #19 of 34
12/19/10 at 5:37pm
^Careful about setting your status above others by declaring that. You're not a vet, nor asked as a professional to come on here and give veterinary advice (that I know of, no admins made any announcements of it). In doing so it could put you, or more precisely the forum, in a sticky situation should someone take your advice too seriously in place of that of their own vet's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG View Post
Isn't an x-ray a diagnostic tool to detect a mass?
X-ray is very limited in that way. If there's a mass, it could show exactly what feeling it would provide - that there's a mass. Not what it is.

Often people come on here (new users) in one of two frames of mind: Denial of how sick the cat is due to not wanting to spend the money on vet care or denial of how serious something can possibly be because they're scared. Letting either put off treatment can have consequences.
So again, talk to the vet and find out why they're pushing this before assuming that they're completely wrong.
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post #20 of 34
12/19/10 at 6:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pamszoo View Post
I work in a vets office and if your not getting a good vibe then definately get a
2nd opinion. It does not sound like a mammary tumor to me but I cant see the cat. It sounds like stress/allergies to me.
Do you feel a hard lum pat the glands or is it the fat pad the vet is feeling thinking its a tumor?
1. No online advice can replace direct veterinary intervention. If you suspect that your cat may be ill, please contact your vet immediately. You are welcome to look for advice in the health forum while waiting for that appointment, but never delay proper veterinary care waiting for Internet advice. Remember that cats, and especially kittens, are very adept in keeping pain to themselves and delaying treatment may cause irreversible damage.
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post #21 of 34
12/19/10 at 7:13pm
Thread Starter 
thanks for the replies and concern.

the vet i am currently seeing is not my regular vet. my regular is on vacation till January and another vet is taking his place atm in his office. but i will go back on monday and see what lead him to this diagnosis etc. after i may get a 2nd opinion. but if it is truly a tumor, i dont want to hold it off too long.

and no i cannot feel any lump of any sort. my cat is kinda fat.

ill keep this updated
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post #22 of 34
12/19/10 at 7:33pm
Good luck tomorrow. And please do report back with why this vet is so sure this needs surgery, and what you plan to do.

I hope you can get a diagnosis on this and that it's something that can be treated and cure/controlled.

I did mention EGC in an earlier post, for those that aren't familiar with that it's the abbreviation for eosinophilic granuloma complex. An extreme type of allergy where the immune system goes too far, the cat ends up with sores (there's varying types because EGC itself is the result of a few different things triggering the immune system). Sometimes one can tell by looking because the sores are so distinctive, but the real way to tell is to take a biopsy (which means surgery, technically) to look for eosinophils and rule out cancer. And yes, I know that's an extremely brief description.

Point: It could be something else but that vet may know they just have to look to figure it out.

(I have a kitty that gets that in reaction to mosquito bites. When I first saw her outside I thought she had possible tumors on her face or something horribly wrong with her because of her near bald inner thighs. No bugs = no more sores, thankfully.)
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post #23 of 34
12/19/10 at 9:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by swang View Post
so today i took my cat percy, 1 yrs old MALE, to the vet because he has been having an excessive licking issue on his stomach near his lower nipple. its too the point that all his fur is gone, about the size of a quarter and its pink. no blood that ive noticed, but there was a little scabbing. he has even started to lick his other nipple and he almost has 2 furless spots now. the vet diagnosed him with a mammary gland tumor after literally touching his stomach area for about 10 seconds. no other tests were given. he has scheduled percy for surgery on monday. ive been reading up on it and to my understanding my cat shows none of the symptoms that go along with it.

but at what point should i start to doubt this vets diagnosis?

1st. he shows none of the symptoms, such as not eating, lethargic, etc
2nd. hes not a senior or a siamese or a female. leaving him a very small, but still possible, chance of having a mammary tumor
3rd. although im not a vet, i believe its because of stress.
4th, he doesnt seem have have any lump-like things that i can feel. i compared him with my other cat it they seemed the same.

i was reading up on fur loss on the stomach near the nipple and there were three common possibilities listed: fleas, allergies, and stress.

hes indoors at ALL times, so it cant be fleas? (my other cat doesnt seem to be scratching or showing symptoms of having fleas)
i eliminated allergies because he has been staying and eating the same food and staying in the same place all his life. and this excessive licking has only been happening for the past month or so.

i believe its stress because im a college student. i bring him back n forth every weekend from my apartment to home, which to my understanding is stressful since the cats environment is inconsistent.
This is the reason I gave my opinion of stress induced licking per what the OP has stated. I asked about making sure its a tumor verses a fat pad because I've known some to make that mistake.. In no way did I state not to take the advice of a vet professional and also mentioned about getting a 2nd opinion if not happy with their vet. If this is giving "veterinary" advice then the mods can delete my posts. I see no difference in my post and some of the others written with medical advice.
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post #24 of 34
12/19/10 at 9:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pamszoo View Post
I see no difference in my post
Quote:
Originally Posted by pamszoo View Post
I work in a vets office
There you go, in case you missed it.
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post #25 of 34
12/19/10 at 10:59pm
Thread Starter 
lol thanks for both of your concerns pamszoo and strangwings. i see both of your sides of the story haha

update: so i just got a 2nd opinion from a family friend who is a vet. she said that she believes it is not a tumor and instead a skin allergy. but obviously she cannot know for sure without running tests. she has recommended me a vet that she knows well and ill be getting his opinion as well on tuesday.

but as far as she was concerned, she believed that vet who diagnosed my cat with a tumor had mistaken his fat for a tumor.

and was a little skeptical as to why he wanted to give surgery so hastily.

ill still ask him as to why he thought it was a tumor though tomorrow

thanks for everyones concerns again.
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post #26 of 34
12/20/10 at 4:25pm
I'm glad you're going for a second (third?) opinion. I hope that you get someone who's a bit more thorough and not so quick to do surgery.
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post #27 of 34
12/20/10 at 7:12pm
There is of course a difference between biopsy and surgery to remove a tumor. I got the impression from the OP that the vet wanted to REMOVE THE TUMOR THAT HE PALPATED. Not engage in a diagnostic prodecure.

So I am very glad that you got a second and possibly a third opinion.... Hope everything works out for you and your kitty.
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post #28 of 34
12/21/10 at 8:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AddieBee View Post
There is of course a difference between biopsy and surgery to remove a tumor.
That depends on what needs to be biopsied and where. Organ, bones, skin, and muscle use different biopsy methods than growths under skin and possibly fat. For those they have to actually cut through the skin and remove part or all of the growth, these are called incisional and excersion biopsies. A cat isn't going to hold still and allow being cut into and stitched up, thus it requires anesthesia and can just be considered surgery.

Hopefully the other vet can figure this out.
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post #29 of 34
12/22/10 at 1:59am
Thread Starter 
UPDATE: saw a third vet for a third opinion and he said that it was NOT a tumor. so now im am completely relieved. however my poor kitty is overweight haha. hes 16 lbs...so time to diet! thanks for everyones replies, it helped me a lot in this desperate situation. THANKS AGAIN!

heres a picture of my percy o tooles. hes 1 yr old and i saved him from the shelter.


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post #30 of 34
12/22/10 at 4:17am
You were smart to go with your intuition!!! I am so glad you did!!

Beautiful kitty!!!
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