Have a dilemma!

Someone in the household is peeing inappropriately outside the box. Marking items: a canvas bag on the floor, a towel in the bathroom (on the floor) and a brand new catnip toy.

There is no spraying, and I have already ruled out a UTI with one of the most likely suspects.

It definitely has to do with Squeaky, Penny and Max. There are some power struggles going on between Max & Squeaky, and Penny is upset at Squeaky for having taken away some of Penny's favorite spots in the house, and has been reacting by stalking and attacking Squeaky.

Feliway is being used in the house and there is a diffuser in the room the catnip toy just got peed on.

The developments are within the last two weeks; prior to that, everything was seemingly fine, considering that Squeaky has been here for three months already, and she has (and still does) eat out of the food dishes alongside all the other cats with no problems.

I am going through all the usual checklists, have added another huge litterbox, am using enzyme cleaner like mad - but I haven't seen the culprit in action.

I HAVE seen several cats sniffing at the latest pee spot (this was the closest I have come to witnessing it myself) and a question came to me, and if any of you have an answer, I'd love to hear it.

I'm wondering if the ones that are sniffing it are NOT the ones who did it, for why would they sniff their own pee? My thoughts are that the guilty party would simply pee and walk off.

If this is true, it would help me to narrow down the suspects for sure!

Originally Posted by GingersMom

Someone in the household is peeing inappropriately outside the box. Marking items: a canvas bag on the floor, a towel in the bathroom (on the floor) and a brand new catnip toy.

There is no spraying, and I have already ruled out a UTI with one of the most likely suspects.

It definitely has to do with Squeaky, Penny and Max. There are some power struggles going on between Max & Squeaky, and Penny is upset at Squeaky for having taken away some of Penny's favorite spots in the house, and has been reacting by stalking and attacking Squeaky.

Feliway is being used in the house and there is a diffuser in the room the catnip toy just got peed on.

The developments are within the last two weeks; prior to that, everything was seemingly fine, considering that Squeaky has been here for three months already, and she has (and still does) eat out of the food dishes alongside all the other cats with no problems.

I am going through all the usual checklists, have added another huge litterbox, am using enzyme cleaner like mad - but I haven't seen the culprit in action.

I HAVE seen several cats sniffing at the latest pee spot (this was the closest I have come to witnessing it myself) and a question came to me, and if any of you have an answer, I'd love to hear it.

I'm wondering if the ones that are sniffing it are NOT the ones who did it, for why would they sniff their own pee? My thoughts are that the guilty party would simply pee and walk off.

If this is true, it would help me to narrow down the suspects for sure!

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Are all your cats spayed/neutered?

I agree with you that the only 1 not not sniffing at it, is probably the 1 that is doing it.

It is almost certainly not one of the sniffers. Though if it is a marking issue the marker may sniff occasionally to see if it needs redoing! The only way to find out that I worked out was to divide the cat population in half and lock one half away in turn until it happened again. then redivide the half that contains the culprit until you have identified him or her. Not easy, I know, but I found that no-one would do it if they knew I was watching - they know it is wrong.

Originally Posted by My4LLMA

Are all your cats spayed/neutered?

I agree with you that the only 1 not not sniffing at it, is probably the 1 that is doing it.

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Absolutely yes, they are all fixed.

Originally Posted by jennyranson

It is almost certainly not one of the sniffers. Though if it is a marking issue the marker may sniff occasionally to see if it needs redoing! The only way to find out that I worked out was to divide the cat population in half and lock one half away in turn until it happened again. then redivide the half that contains the culprit until you have identified him or her. Not easy, I know, but I found that no-one would do it if they knew I was watching - they know it is wrong.

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I'm working crazy long hours at the moment so for me to catch this in action is close to impossible.

What I saw today was Penny sniffing at the cat toy that was freshly peed on. Also saw Baby and Ginger sniff the toy. Ferris hadn't been in the room and so that narrows it down to Max and Squeaky, and therefore it's GOT to be part of the current alpha position struggle.

Max had the crown, Squeaky stole it for a bit then Max reclaimed it.

It could very well be Squeaky marking as a result of her displeasure about how the hierarchy shift worked against her favor. And she is still defending herself against a perturbed and agressive Penny.

The towel she marked was mine, and I'd used it. The couch cushion that got marked was the one I sit on most often, therefore it smelled like me. But the toy was brand new, and a catnip pillow. So...

Definitely sounds behavioral, though, and Penny got taken to the vet due to her change in temperment, where we ruled out a UTI.

So...Max...or Squeaky? I need to figure out how to fix this...or else the new girl, such a sweet & cuddly girl, will need to be rehomed. I don't want to see it come to that.

Have you got feliway of some sort going>?

Originally Posted by sharky

Have you got feliway of some sort going>?

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Yes, did mention the diffusers in my first post. This is happening despite that - I've never experienced anything like this before, although I know it's not uncommon.

Is funny - people that know me accuse me of being a cat whisperer, and while I do understand the WHYs of this behavior, I'm not quite sure how to fix it, except to try all the things I'm doing, punish no one, and in fact, give out extra lovies to all concerned. *sigh*

The only time I have dealt with this was one did not like the scent of the other... Vanilla did fix it within a few days of doing it daily... LOL... I too get accused of that

Dumb ??s Yes I read the first post so hopefully I dont miss anything else have you started with a new detergent? carpet cleaner?

Originally Posted by sharky

The only time I have dealt with this was one did not like the scent of the other... Vanilla did fix it within a few days of doing it daily... LOL... I too get accused of that

Dumb ??s Yes I read the first post so hopefully I dont miss anything else

have you started with a new detergent? carpet cleaner?

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Believe it or not, vanilla is the only thing I haven't tried, as it it VERY expensive now (like, $8 for two ounces! Cat perfume! ) and I had everything else already on hand.

Not dumb questions at all - I've read so many other posts about this topic that I thought I'd get a handle on it quickly, and like I said, I know why, I understand the cat emotions at hand here. Is most definitely due to the power struggles.

No to the new anything other than Squeaky moving in 3 months ago. All else is still the very same. Am working on blending in the new dry food you and I discussed; that is working out very well so far, and I'm not quite yet at 50% old/50% new. So I don't think that has anything to do with it.

Aw hun, I'm sorry! I don't know how to figure out who it is, but the only other ideas that pop to my mind for helping destress the situation is Bach's Rescue Remedy - maybe for now add drops to their water, as you'll be using vanilla on them. And you do have lots of vertical space? Because it can be a real help in diffusing the hierarchy issues.

Also... there is a Feliway collar now, I think. Or something like it. An herbal "calm" collar or something. Maybe try one on Max and Squeaky? I looked it up and found this: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...m?pcatid=21527

Also found these, but don't know if they're appropriate.... http://www.calmingcollars.com/aboutus.html

Just another experience here...I had been working on changing litter from Swheat Scoop to WBCL. I had left one box completely SS and was in the process of integrating WBCL very slowly. Once that box was 100% WBCL I started on the other. That is when the trouble started. Pepper hated the WBCL and started peeing in "random" spots. Took me 2 weeks to find the culprit! (she eventually did it in front of me...). However, it was several months after I started the transition that she started to pee inappropriately. It didn't even seem "new" at that point. I went back to all SS and problem solved!

My point is, don't rule anything out!

Good luck and I hope you can fix it soon!

Originally Posted by LDG

Aw hun, I'm sorry! I don't know how to figure out who it is, but the only other ideas that pop to my mind for helping destress the situation is Bach's Rescue Remedy - maybe for now add drops to their water, as you'll be using vanilla on them. And you do have lots of vertical space? Because it can be a real help in diffusing the hierarchy issues.

Also... there is a Feliway collar now, I think. Or something like it. An herbal "calm" collar or something. Maybe try one on Max and Squeaky?

I looked it up and found this: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...m?pcatid=21527

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Great suggestions, thank you.

I have Bachs but you can't use it in running water fountains as supposedly the movement disperses it. I once tried spraying it on the back of Penny's ear, which scared the you know what out of her and traumatized her.

I have cat space of all kinds, high, low, medium, shelves that are empty just for them, cat baskets and beds and pillows and cardboard boxes and at least one cat tree in every room, not to mention the cat wheel. Looks like I am running a kitty daycare - if I could afford a "kittywalk" I'd have one!

Max won't wear a collar (takes them off VERY quickly) but Squeaky will. A Feliway collar would be great, but they are both acting relatively calmly. Penny is the one exhibiting behavior changes, being very aggressive toward Squeaky.

This is why the one that went to the vet first was Miss Penny. It was scary for me to witness this sweet tempered, shy, passive girl turn into a scary, yowling attack cat.

I have since determined that Penny is very upset because Squeaky has been sleeping at the foot of my bed, and that used to be HER spot. The latest attack (that I know of) was at 4 a.m., on my bed. Very scary to wake up to that. As soon as I turned on the light, Penny leapt at Squeaky and they hit the floor a ball of claws, teeth, and flying fur.

I decided that from now on, I'm going to have to close Penny and Baby into my bedroom with me for the night. The others do come and visit, but have sleeping spots upstairs. Squeaky is simply going to have to find another sleep spot, much as I enjoy her company at night. I can only hope that the marking doesn't continue, or she'll need to be rehomed.

I am sure that in a home where she can be the top cat or only cat, there would be no marking issues. For of course, I am now thinking that she is the marker, as she continues to fight to establish herself in the existing hierachy. Although she acts very nonchalant about the whole thing, she's not entirely an innocent.

Originally Posted by Calico76

Just another experience here...I had been working on changing litter from Swheat Scoop to WBCL. I had left one box completely SS and was in the process of integrating WBCL very slowly. Once that box was 100% WBCL I started on the other. That is when the trouble started. Pepper hated the WBCL and started peeing in "random" spots. Took me 2 weeks to find the culprit! (she eventually did it in front of me...). However, it was several months after I started the transition that she started to pee inappropriately. It didn't even seem "new" at that point. I went back to all SS and problem solved!

My point is, don't rule anything out!

Good luck and I hope you can fix it soon!

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There really haven't been any changes in my home whatsoever, except for the addition of Squeaky over Labor Day weekend. There has been quite the soap opera going on here as 5 cats became 6 and the new cat walked in like she owned the place and was taking over. The resident cats have never met anyone quite like her, and things are still sorting themselves out.

I'm going to try the vanilla as soon as I get paid again, and hopefully that, and giving Penny back her spot at night will help things get back on an even keel.

The Bach's - you don't need to spray it on the cat. You can squirt it on a small piece of paper towel, and act like you're petting the cat and just rub it on there.

Whiney post ahead:

Treated all with vanilla last night. So far, have witnessed no more fighting, but that doesn't mean there hasn't been any.

Last night I came home from a 10-hour day to find a puddle of pee in the bathtub. Was glad it was just the tub; no signs of new spots anywhere else.

BUT... After a 12-hour workday today, I came home to find a huge pee spot on the rug on the bathroom floor, and no one's talking.

Have ZERO cash to take another cat the the vet this weekend, already gave up my grocery money for the whole month to take Penny last weekend, in addition to spending $32 for a gallon of Nature's Miracle.

I'm working 50 hours a week for peanuts (and an extremely glad to at least have a job after being unemployed for nearly two years, but I am making less than half of what I used to earn,) unfortunately, now I won't have enough to eat this month, and I have absolutely no idea what to do with the cat situation. I am in a rental home, and ALL the floors have carpeting on them.

I have no idea how to get to the bottom of this as I can't take any time off to just watch the cats for days on end, and am getting seriously stressed out.

My home stinks like pee, I already had to throw out some couch cushions and I just do not have an extra $108 per week to take one cat after the other to the vet for the next 5 weeks to determine even IF anyone has a UTI.

I never, ever thought I'd have such a problem. I am starting to think that Squeaky has GOT to go, so that I can try to return my household to the previous status quo, and if it is a behavioral issue, that MIGHT help. But is not a guarantee.

My heart hurts over this. I can and have already given up on food for myself for the month, but there is no other area I can skimp or skip a bill on. Help?!?! What on earth should I do?!?!

Sorry for the hysteria in the last post...I had a bit of a meltdown yesterday evening, and it wasn't just the cats.

I came home to find NO puddles of pee anywhere tonight (YAY!) and in fact, caught Max jumping out of a litterbox I had just cleaned, so I rushed over and scooped to find a very small pee clump. He had already pooped in the other box, so my new guess is perhaps it is Max and perhaps he has a UTI.

He is due for a combo booster and therefore he will be the next cat tested, as soon as I have the $, and thank goodness for expected christmas money from my parents, because all I want for xmas is a healthy and happy household!

Baby is due for her rabies shot in mid-Jan, so she's going to get tested, too.

EVERYTHING happens for a reason, good, bad or indifferent, so I know I will find my way through/out of this situation.

Thank you to those who have been following this, and to those of you I have heard from privately. It means a great deal to me that I have support from fellow cat lovers.

The following is, in part, copied from a message I sent to someone here as a reply:

Squeaky is simply WONDERFUL, a head-butting, cuddling, arm-holding, love-seeking sweet girl. Except for the fact that she is of a dominant rather than submissive nature, she's blended rather well. She tugs at my heart with the love she's poured out to me for taking her in off the street.

Admittedly, that is a hard thing to give up, especially since 4 out of 5 of the other cats are not anywhere near as demonstrative with their affection. That's totally selfish on my part, to want that and not want to have to give it up.

But it is about THEM more so than me, and it's about what's best for all of them, not just one.

So I am, as soon as I can gether the emotional strength, going to post an ad to try to find Squeaky a new home. There will be a rehoming fee and I WILL screen anyone interested, for she deserves LOVE and a forever home. I thought she would find that here, but I guess this is all a bit beyond my control.

I'm still trying to work this all out.

I'm so sorry you're not home enough to see just who's the culprit. Gary was stressed out of his mind when Spooky was peeing out of the box and we were trying to figure out how to get her stop - and we'd seen her do it, so knew who it was.

We can also sympathize with the giving up of food for the cats. During "good" time we stock up on "emergency" food (cans, rice, etc.). We lived off of those for months once. We're doing the rice & beans right now, in fact, because we've got vet bills to pay down and cats that need to go (Tuxie's do for blood work, but thankfully he's looking and acting very "pink." (long term problem with anemia)).

It is really stressful, and I'm sorry I have nothing but sympathy and hugs for you. And, of course, vibes.