New with unusual questions!

straysmommy

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(You're welcome to skip first 3 paragraphs of background history and go straight to the questions, if you like).

Hi, I'm new here and new as a feral colony caregiver, as well as very new to cats, and pets in general (I come from a family that don't like animals, especially cats. I grew up with all the old, usual misconceptions such as that cats don't remember their owner, that they're treacherous, etc.)

It all started innocently. Tired of seeing 2 of them meouwing, begging, hungry and cold in the building doorstep come evening, I once or twice threw some leftovers and that was it - they decided that I would do as a mommy, in view of absence of any other options, and I find myself having 13 beings waiting for me each evening and getting offended if I don't bring food. I don't like cats, in my family's tradition, but I won't have anyone die of destitution in my whereabouts - I said. Luckily, the super of the building is their daddy, so no conflicts with neighbors (as a true man, though, some of the cats' more delicate needs go over his head, so I'm a nicer option and I've been adopted).

I had the municipality come for TNR but these cats are never so hungry that they'll go into the traps for a treat (probably other neighbors feed them treats too), so it failed miserably. We didn't catch even one.

Alas! Strays and ferals don't hand you an instructions manual when they adopt you, so here I am, hoping you all will adopt me. I'm embarrassed to admit that, nowadays, after a couple months, I enjoy them more than they enjoy me. They've rescued me more than I did them. I've found answers to the intelligent questions on the web, but it's my stupid questions that I've been unable to find answers to, however much I've surfed. So here, for today's questions:

1. ATTENTION TO FERALS?- What does it mean to give a cat "attention", when he won't let you come anywhere near, won't let you touch them, let alone talk to them or play with them? I've taken to play "catch the chicken breast little cube" with them, so that I don't have to come near them to play, and they get a treat on top of it if they play. They're thus in control of how near they come, and those that do come anywhere near get their cubes. On those nights I get to see and interact with all 11 cats downstairs. I throw each cube to a specific cat, look in their eyes first and call their attention telling them "grab it!" (they've gotten used to the intonation now), so everyone knows it's for that cat and he's alert that it's for him, so there's almost no conflict.

2. ANTI-FLEAS FOR FERALS?- Two of the cats live in our building, on the high walls outside, and come in sometimes at night to sleep on the abandoned couch on the -1 floor (it's never too cold in this country, so they're not used to cold nights outside). I spoil them rotten. It breaks my heart to see them scratch so much, so I bought an anti-flea spray, but I've no idea how to spray without them running off and losing their still precarious trust in me in the process. It's spoiling the little trust we'd been so slowly building. I've decided to let them scratch, their trust is more important at this stage, but my heart is torn. I've managed only 2 spray shots so far, at a high trust cost. Any ideas?

3. SPENDING TIME WITH FERALS? - I never heard or found anything written on engaging a colony in play and giving them attention - is this not done? Am I alone in doing this? I've noticed (and again, I only once read someone who mentioned this) that these cats (who live in a rich, high-density neighborhood with many progressive, very busy, young professionals) are much more starved for attention than for food or water. They will come and play with their food when I put it out, but eat little or nothing (they do devour the treats, though) and instead enjoy the opportunity to be in the company of the other cats, to have a human to sit beside or near, and to watch the people and cars passing by from a totally exposed place (next to me), which they never allow themselves to do if I'm not there. Many pretend to eat, just as an excuse to be with the rest of us. This causes that I spend a lot of time with them, often an hour or more, which is unusual (you're supposed to put the food and water out and leave), so neighbors are confused as to my behavior...?
 

sbd45

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Hi,
I am glad you are feeding and giving them attention. I feed a feral colony of 21. When they are done with wet food and yes they all eat side by side, I put down the hard and they have that probably rest of the day. I had the help of two great gals that trapped and we took them and had them all fixed, there was 30 in all. Some went away and we adopted some out. After my friend and I are done feeding, we sit with them, pet them and play with some string toys. There are about seven that are really friendly and play and enjoy out company. We can't spend too much time there though, and now that the weather changed and will be cold that's another story. Just time for petting and not playing. We have been feeding and caring for them for over 2 years. I feel good that I can do this. We put some posters with pictures in hopes of someone will be wanting a needing cat. The cats were only 8 months to a 1 year old when they were fixed. They wait for us everyday and lead us to their feeding area. I am glad God gives us the strength. Please keep up your good job, it will make you very warm and appreciated and Blessed.

Ruth
 
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straysmommy

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Thank you so much for sharing! I thoroughly enjoyed it! I wonder why there's hardly any talk of quality-time spent with colonies, on the web... Also, my friend who takes very good care of strays, never spends time with them, just feeds them.

Do continue sharing about your colony if and when you wish! It's so much more than TNR and feeding... I find that some (if not all), even the "alphas" and the "ferals" are starved for attention. I'm off to give them dinner now.
 

minouloveblue

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I used to take care of a colony but over the past year I have trapped them, had them fixed and found homes or taken them to caretakers and no-kill shelters that work with them.
I used to spend considerable time talking to the cats, playing with them and winning their confidence. I'm down to one female who is about four. She's very scared now because her colony is gone. She saw her last kitten get trapped and it broke my heart. She sat by the trap and looked at me in desperation.
She will be hard to trap. I rarely see her now and feel so bad that her family is gone. I am hearbroken but it was getting impossible to maintain a colony at an apartment complex where the management was against TNY.
 

hissy

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Hi feralsmommy, someone alerted me to your post. I will be happy to help you- you can PM me for my email address if you like. I have been working with ferals for thirty-plus years now-



Originally Posted by Feralsmommy

(You're welcome to skip first 3 paragraphs of background history and go straight to the questions, if you like).

Hi, I'm new here and new as a feral colony caregiver, as well as very new to cats, and pets in general (I come from a family that don't like animals, especially cats. I grew up with all the old, usual misconceptions such as that cats don't remember their owner, that they're treacherous, etc.)

It all started innocently. Tired of seeing 2 of them meouwing, begging, hungry and cold in the building doorstep come evening, I once or twice threw some leftovers and that was it - they decided that I would do as a mommy, in view of absence of any other options, and I find myself having 13 beings waiting for me each evening and getting offended if I don't bring food. I don't like cats, in my family's tradition, but I won't have anyone die of destitution in my whereabouts - I said. Luckily, the super of the building is their daddy, so no conflicts with neighbors (as a true man, though, some of the cats' more delicate needs go over his head, so I'm a nicer option and I've been adopted).

Putting out food is fine and good, but neutering is a must. If you put out food, more and more cats will come and you will soon have a colony fighting for the females when kitten season arrives. This means huge vet bills for you to deal with abscesses and other fight injuries, not to mention the kittens being left behind because the females are pregnant. Over the years you will have inbreeding going on and this means genetic issues that can be pretty severe and heart-breaking.
I had the municipality come for TNR but these cats are never so hungry that they'll go into the traps for a treat (probably other neighbors feed them treats too), so it failed miserably. We didn't catch even one.
Not sure how you trapped or tried to trap them? You can't set the traps when they are nearby, and once one is in the trap you need to either cover it or remove it immediately so as not to spook any of the others. Don't feed 24-48 hours before setting the traps and there are tricks you can use to get even trap-savvy cats in the traps. Don't set the traps out in the open, put them in secluded locations- use the stinkiest smelliest cat food, put it on small paper plates (so the liquid soaks into the paper and makes a stench) sprinkle a tiny bit of catnip at the opening of the trap to help kitty relax and give him the munchies. Not a lot, just a tiny pinch- the best bait to use is KFC original recipe- the greasier the better (just remove the skin)

Alas! Strays and ferals don't hand you an instructions manual when they adopt you, so here I am, hoping you all will adopt me. I'm embarrassed to admit that, nowadays, after a couple months, I enjoy them more than they enjoy me. They've rescued me more than I did them. I've found answers to the intelligent questions on the web, but it's my stupid questions that I've been unable to find answers to, however much I've surfed. So here, for today's questions:

You are welcome to take a look at my blog www.feralcatbehavior.com just do a search for what you are looking for and you will likely find some assistance.

1. ATTENTION TO FERALS?- What does it mean to give a cat "attention", when he won't let you come anywhere near, won't let you touch them, let alone talk to them or play with them? I've taken to play "catch the chicken breast little cube" with them, so that I don't have to come near them to play, and they get a treat on top of it if they play. They're thus in control of how near they come, and those that do come anywhere near get their cubes. On those nights I get to see and interact with all 11 cats downstairs. I throw each cube to a specific cat, look in their eyes first and call their attention telling them "grab it!" (they've gotten used to the intonation now), so everyone knows it's for that cat and he's alert that it's for him, so there's almost no conflict.

Ok, here is a first mistake most people make. You want a playmate, they want a preymate. You want to make eye contact- DON'T direct eye contact is an invitation to war. If you ever have watched two males connect to fight during kitten season- the FIRST thing they do is make eye contact. They don't break this until they collide (usually in the air) It is an impressive fight and quite heartbreaking because they fight until one can't fight any longer. If you want to make headway with these cats IGNORE them completely. If you have to sit among them, then do so, but shut your eyes. Talk softly to them, leave a circle of treats around you, if they come to take the treats Leave them be. Don't open your eyes, just relax and become one with the ground.
This allows them to trust you.If you are sitting, you are less than a threat then standing.In the cat world, height represents power- go to their level but don't push contact.


2. ANTI-FLEAS FOR FERALS?- Two of the cats live in our building, on the high walls outside, and come in sometimes at night to sleep on the abandoned couch on the -1 floor (it's never too cold in this country, so they're not used to cold nights outside). I spoil them rotten. It breaks my heart to see them scratch so much, so I bought an anti-flea spray, but I've no idea how to spray without them running off and losing their still precarious trust in me in the process. It's spoiling the little trust we'd been so slowly building. I've decided to let them scratch, their trust is more important at this stage, but my heart is torn. I've managed only 2 spray shots so far, at a high trust cost. Any ideas?

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do NOT use any flea spray unless your vet has given it to you. VERY IMPORTANT most of the stuff on shelves in stores are either toxic or not potent enough to kill the cycle of fleas. You can do more harm putting flea spray on these cats. Talk to your vet about profender, or using something else to control the fleas. If they are outside, they are hunting- they are going to get fleas and worms.Profender is good because it also kills some parasites- it was designed to be used in feral colonies.

3. SPENDING TIME WITH FERALS? - I never heard or found anything written on engaging a colony in play and giving them attention - is this not done? Am I alone in doing this? I've noticed (and again, I only once read someone who mentioned this) that these cats (who live in a rich, high-density neighborhood with many progressive, very busy, young professionals) are much more starved for attention than for food or water. They will come and play with their food when I put it out, but eat little or nothing (they do devour the treats, though) and instead enjoy the opportunity to be in the company of the other cats, to have a human to sit beside or near, and to watch the people and cars passing by from a totally exposed place (next to me), which they never allow themselves to do if I'm not there. Many pretend to eat, just as an excuse to be with the rest of us. This causes that I spend a lot of time with them, often an hour or more, which is unusual (you're supposed to put the food and water out and leave), so neighbors are confused as to my behavior...?
These cats by your description are NOT feral cats. Feral cats are aggressive, they hide effectively only coming out at night to feed. You rarely get a chance to see them. Suspect these are cats who have been abandoned, or are owned by people who don't give a damn about them. I call them strays with feral tendencies. I know in this area the economy is so in the tank that people are bugging out and leaving animals behind. Most of the cats are tossed outside and they end up here with me. I currently share my home with 23 strays. You don't want to push contact or read into them something you may want and they don't. If they are not headbumping you yet, they aren't ready to trust you- and honestly until they are neutered- you are going to have a real mess on your hands soon. You either need to find someone in your area skilled in trapping them and get them in to the neuterscooter- or STOP FEEDING THEM. it's that simple. If any are missing a tip of an ear, they have possibly been neutered before.

You want these cats to respond like a loving domestic cat would respond. That isn't going to happen until they learn to trust you. Even if they are hanging out near you- you still can't touch them right? You earn their trust by first trapping and neutering them to stop the breeding cycle- then you work on setting up a schedule of feeding times every day same time, same location so they can set their internal clock by you. Then you sit among them, in a relaxed state, eyes closed or averted while they eat, moving in closer and closer over time. But if you aren't going to bring any indoors, then your only responsibility is to trap and neuter and feed.

Good luck
 
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straysmommy

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You're right, Hissy. I have to stop feeding them. Tonight was the last time. I did know you don't feed stray cats if you can't pay vet bills. I just felt sorry for them and started feeding them. But I've vowed now never again.

Anyway, there's a bully cat that didn't let anyone eat tonight, chased all the cats, so it's not like I'd be able to feed the colony anyway.

Instead I'll use the time to pray that some rich, compassionate soul that can take 14 cats to a vet takes pity on them.

Tonight I also came to the conclusion, a few minutes before I read your post, that these are not ferals but probably outdoor cats of the area neighbors, since they often aren't hungry and some make a round smelling all the bowls for treats, and if it's just dry food, they go away. And none of them is too afraid of me to come at least a meter from me.
 

StefanZ

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Back to your question Feralsmommy, why so few of caretakers tells they give their feral colonies quality play time?

One big reason is, like Hissy said - real ferales are waay too shy for any quality play... So normally, the slow approach ("pretend you dont see them") is the most useful.

And of course in many cases we dont need to decide who are ferales and who are semiferales.
Although to recognize and see who are dumped / astray homecats who did survived, and who are ferales - IS a difference. Or more still, who are shy cats with homes and who are homeless for real... (giving food to cats with homes can make homeless of many of them,,,treats in not as bad)

If a caretaker have advanced plans for making them adoptable - they do try to play. In a group of even real ferales there is always at least one who is more daring... So you begin with her, if you can and want to foster it into a homecat.

So, if you ARE going to adopt them, yes you try to play with them. Either in the place of the colony/feeding, or after catching, being now together at your place.


But there is the other side of this dime.

IF there are easy to find good foster and adoption homes, you try to catch and foster as many as possible and TNR only a few.
But the big problem is often, there are no such possibilities. The rescuer perhaps had tried hard several times so she know it is chanceless....

In such a case, many rescuers feel it is better NOT to socialize them. Because being a little socialized and generally not longer very watchful of people makes them also vulnerable for evil-doers.
In such cases, where there is no good chances of adoption - it is better to have them only stricktly TNR-ed, and be still bewaring of people. Them allowing only the caretatakers to come near...
Sad but true.


You perhaps ask: but, IF there is somebody spontan-adopting? Yes, such things happens now and then. It becomes also easier when they are neutered. If it is Gods will, it will happen and it does happens now and then.
But the risk for meeting a hunting and prowling evil-doer is greater than this meeting with a spontan adopter - so - dont make it easy for this villain, this evil-doer.

Some thoughts.


Last, but not least.
You TS should prob change some of your approach. But you ARE on the right way: doing your outmost to help these our small brethrens and sisters.
Feeding the hungry IS a good deed. Although it becomes excellent firstly when you do have a good and consistient plan with it.

So, think everything over, read on, - and please Feralsmommy, do begin anew. On your own, or perhaps best, together with some good rescue group.


Tx a lot for your trying, and good luck!
 
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straysmommy

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Stefan, it's probably the neighbors stealing my money by sending their cats to feed from my purse. A few nights ago someone stole the cat food with the bowl (not the water, so it was theft and not cat-hatred).

And even if some are real hungry strays, I can't afford to feed 14 cats when I don't know which or how many are really in need and how many are just stealing from me (the owners). And as I said above, I can't afford a vet for all of them, anyway, plus the high price of an experienced trapper.

I also can't TNR and/or offer for adoption cats that I don't know if they belong to my neighbors. There's no guarantee that they'll see the signs, even if I put up signs about 14 cats. Besides, here people go out in their cars and don't walk in the neighborhood so how are they supposed to see the signs. And even if I knew who the real strays are, I can't avoid the neighbors' cats eating too.

One thing is for sure: these cats are neither feral nor hungry.
 

hissy

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So they are either dumped, or just owned by people who don't feed them regularly. Chances are too that more than a few of them are spayed or neutered. You can easily tell with the boys -not so with the girls.

I know it sounds hard-hearted to not feed them, but honestly, they will just move on to another place that will feed. So good choice to stop- now you won't have to worry about extra monies going out for vet bills, food etc and no cat will spray the outside of your home to let others know that this is a safe place to eat. Bless you for caring- but again doubtful these cats are really starving or ferals.
 
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straysmommy

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More unusual questions, I'll be grateful for any insight...!

1. A woman a few blocks from me feeds several tens of cats. I wonder if she's been feeding the cats of all the neighbors in the apartment buildings around for years without knowing?

2. God spared all for 1 just. I wonder if stray cats caretakers, concerned with the welfare of the strays, have come to terms with and accepted the fact that they'll probably be feeding their neighbors' cats too in the process?

3. Many people of very modest means feed strays. I wonder if that means they are all irresponsible and selfish, since they obviously don't have money for TNR and vet care for tens of cats?

4. How do people in high-density urban areas TNR when the neighbors don't walk around the neighborhood so they won't see the signs warning them to keep their pets inside on the TNR day?

5. What can you do when one big, bully cat chases all other cats away and won't let them eat, in spite of you saying "NO!" each time he does it?
 
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